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Frontier vs Ranger - II
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In your own words.Frontier stomps your PERSONAL RANGER. LOL
THe best overall value in its class
The best compact pickup 2 years in a row
The lowest maintenance cost in the compact pickup class
one of the lowest total ownership costs in its class
The lowest repair cost in its class.
And the other vehicles I just brought up were off of the list that you posted, so don't start whining when people use your own information to show how hypocritical and uninformed you are. Do you have an explanation as to why Ford overall had
an absolutely terrible performance compared to the superior quality Nissans?
I like it...in 'skim reader' form huh?
morning one of those 5spd 4x2 3.3l V6 you said doesn't exist, what ever happened to that comment?
I am trying to find the braking data cncman speaks of.
You all constantly quote the OLD 4.0 and seem to miss that the new 4.0 on the Ranger is due out in about 4 months. What will Nissan do then? OH yeah, they put a bandaid on the 3.3, a supercharger. Do you realize what the 4.0 SOHC supercharged, would do to a 3.3 supercharged? You do the math. No, I'll do the math. This would be about a 235HP/280ft/lbs of torque engine! Nissan is playing catch-up. Ranger rules!
It is so obvious you don't understand what torque is. What happens when the 200ft/lbs of torque runs out after the 3000 rpms? besides the Ranger reaches its 225ft/lbs of torque at 2750rpms....
Fact is the Ranger is safer, better performer, and better quality and you just can't handle it!
In that braking comparo, how was each equipped? No ABS, 2-wheel ABS, 4-wheel ABS? It really makes a huge difference. Anybody that doesn't automatically check that 4-wheel ABS box on the option form has got a screw loose.
Aren't those turbos/superchargers mostly for high performance aftermarket applications? I'm sure they did a helluva lot more to those vehicles than just slap on a SC/Turbo.
BTW, I don't think a supercharger is a band-aid in either application. They're just the cheapest way to get more power. If I were a Nissan guy, I'd be yelling to get that 3.5L out of the Pathfinder instead of a SC 3.3.
I found the interior of the Nissan to be a bit spartan and unstyled. I'm not saying that it wasn't perfectly functional or ugly, either.
the article just says, disc/drum ABS for both, I know the Frontier had 4wheel ABS, because they all do in 4x4's. Don't know about the other's setup but defintely ABS.
And actually from what I understand, ABS has almost nothing to do with stopping distance, it is designed to maintain steering control during a panic stop. If that is not so let me know, but I have heard that from alot of engineers.
Yes they did do a whole lot more to the Nissans when they added the SC/Turbo, just as Nissan will do to the Frontier. I still don't think we will see the VQ in a frontier, perhaps when they come out with the full size truck, but who knows, I see
a more likely 3.5-4.0l version of the current engine, probably when they introduce the SUT. Hope you had a good trip, welcome back!
off the road for a second or two. The rest of the cruise functions are on the steering wheel right about the 4:00 position which is nice.
Ever notice when reading car reviews the reviewers always find a zillion little things to complain about in almost every interior? It's highly subjective though. I mean, they dock points for not having a certian cup-holder in a certain place or something.
But as far as trucks go, as long as everything seems in the right place and there doesn't seem to be too much cheap plastic that will eventually rattle, then I never really pay a lot of attention. If I were buying a luxury SUV or something then I'd expect the works, but for compact/mid size pickups I don't think it would ever be a deciding factor.
One more thing, I have never quite figured out why all vehicles aren't equipped with 4-wheel disk brakes. Disks are far better than drums. I guess it's that stupid bottom line again or people who will skimp on the safety of themselves and their family to save a few hundred dollars. It absolutely blows my mind. My uncle (who owns a body shop) has told me all sorts of convert stories after serious accidents.
It seems that they think everybody just jumps in their ride carrying 5 or 6 big gulps from the local convenience store to pass the time on the commute to work.
About the only gripe I've got with the interior on my 98 Ranger is the sliding rear window latch. At times, it can rattle (the only thing in the truck). And, it's very easy to break into. It only takes a coat hanger and 30 seconds. Other than that, we all adapt to the controls of our particular vehicles, so it doesn't even matter.
SUT??? Isn't that the Frontier CC?
but the SUT has a hatch for the back of the cab that lifts up and has styling that IMO, Ford copied for the sport trac, I think maybe there might be something on it at freshalloy.com.
http://www.ocnow.com/partners/autos/special/cruise/031799cruise_sutbig.html
I read a little more about the different ABS systems last night, everything I read said the main advantage was being able to maintain steering control and stop a skid, they did say that it shortened stopping distances on ice or wet pavement, basically no difference on dry pavement,
and could be longer in loose snow or gravel. I guess it was dry pavement those engineers were talking to me about,also they sadi that light trucks typically had rear wheel ABS because this prevents the rear end from sliding sideways, but the front wheels can still lock up. Well, thanks for getting me out there looking this up.
BTW, wherever the Sport Trac got it's styling from, it's still ugly. I don't see much resemblance between the Nissan CC (which looks good) and the Sport Trac (which does not).
How could these techs say that ABS stops will be longer in loose snow/gravel? I would expect (and my personal experience seems to dictate) otherwise.
wdoyle:
I think the F150 Super Crew is pretty nice looking too. But, I wouldn't like paying for gas for that truck, especially here in Chicago at $2/gal for the cheap stuff in the outlying 'burbs.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/equipment/ABSBRAKES.html
Note how under "Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?" they say "On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances."
This is repeated at:
http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm
where they tell you why:
"In what circumstances might conventional brakes have an advantage over ABS? There are some conditions where stopping distance may be shorter without ABS. For example, in cases where the road is covered with loose gravel or freshly fallen snow, the locked wheels of a non-ABS car build up a wedge of gravel or snow, which can contribute to a shortening of the braking distance."
This latter article seems well worth reading all the way through, especially the section on rear wheel anti-locks vs all wheel.
"If I live in the Snow Belt, how can I benefit from ABS? Even in fresh snow conditions, you gain the advantages of better steerability and stability with four-wheel ABS than with a conventional system that could result in locked wheels.
In exchange for an increased stopping distance, the vehicle will remain stable and maintain full steering since the wheels won't be locked. The gain in stability makes a potential increase in
stopping distances an acceptable compromise for most drivers. All in all, these benefits outweigh the rare instances where the ABS system increases distances over non-ABS equipped vehicles"
Does that seem about right to everyone?
Thanks for the links, steve. Very informative.
I wonder if everybody is waiting for the new models?
My dealer is almost out of crew cab, again...funny though I don't see a whole bunch of them- mine's the only 4x4 I've seen.
Scenario 1 is coming to a slippery intersection too fast and the ABS cycles and actually releases the brakes where I much rather would have liked them to have locked since steering control didn't matter as much at that time.
#2 is offroading coming around a blind curve and there's an obstacle. The only thing I want is full lock up and the ABS releases the brakes.
Both these examples are similar in that they were low speed and steering control was secondary. ON a highway were loss of steering due to locked brakes can be fatal ABS is very beneficial.
Cthompson:
Doesn't the 4x4 ranger have 4 wheel ABS like all 4x4 frontiers? And if not, would front wheel lock really make 100 feet of difference? THe drivers in the magazine rated the ranger's braking control as good, so I doubt they were skidding out of control. Besides, I believe the 4x4 Frontier weighs more than the ranger too right? (I'll verify this later) WOuldn't you think that the disadvantage of more weight would compensate for the ranger's disadvantage for only 2 wheel ABS?
DO you know what setup the tacoma has? I think it is just rear wheel ABS, and the toyota still was pretty close to the frontier, I think only 7-12 feet difference. Why is the tacoma able to stop safely with just rear wheel ABS and not the ranger? (oops, I just noticed I was saying ranger, but it was actually the mazda B400) Also one thing all V6 Frontiers have even in 4x2 mode is a G-sensor, it is like a master brain over the 4wheel ABS, this helps stop the ABS from acting up in some off road conditions, this may have helped modvptnl in his offroading situation.
I was glad to get back home and into my Frontier CC. Give it a try, go rent the ranger P.O.S. edition (it even has a hard tonneau, oh boy) at your nearest Budget rental car.
Hint Hint, You can ignore this too, that is what you do best (even better than posting garbage).
I was kinda enjoying vince being silent.like they say all good things must come to an end.
vince,you still do not have a clue or an honest opinion that is your own.Your Ranger is not safer then my Frontier because my year and model was not tested.
As far as the sales figures go,we have already established that the driving force on those sales figures is not so much the quality of the vehicle as it is FORD WILL FINANCE ANYBODY.
Hey vince,how does it feel to have a bigger engine and less hp than my Frontier?i guess I will have to start referring to you as vince I got no power 8. Ha HA
What's your fax# I need to get the braking figures to you you said you wanted, and don't brush this aside like everything else you have, And what posts are you talking about that we swept aside?
I only remember 2, the JD power and the crash test, both have been addressed by more than one person, where are your responses to all of the posts you said you were going to respond to? WHere are all of those fantastic links to the sites you said you had that proved the ranger suspension was better? Have you looked under your truck yet, I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself before you accuse others of avoiding issues, Hey I even broke all of the points down for you into easily skimmable chunks and you still don't say squat, go back and read them again. you are still throwing out opinions, most of which aren't even yours and claim them as fact, safety wise, the site you posted had the same real world injury rates for the frontier and the ranger, so how does this show the ranger is safer if these figures are the same, this test also doesn't include the 2000 model and alot of changes have been made. And how does the ranger perform better? the frontier brakes better,
has a tighter turning radius, is more stable with or without a load, has a better suspension, better ABS setup etc. Not to mention better reliability,
lower maintenance, lower insurance cost, better resale value, a bigger bed, more standard features, less money, better steel, longer warranty, and so on and so on. Yea that ranger really puts it to shame,
ANd why are you still arguing about the sales figures? Nissan trucks were up 56% last month VS a year ago, even with reduced incentives, Ford was up 3% so how does this fit in with your "consumer rules" theory? And why does Nissan way outsell the
Mazda B series, if you are saying that the ford is better because it sells more than the frontier, then you also have to admit the frontier is better than the mazda, SO WHICH IS IT? Either you admit the frontier is a better truck than the mazda by your own theory or stop using that faulty argument, you only make yourself look less and less intelligent every time you use it and you need what little credibility you have left son,
good question, not sure that I have an answer, I think if you participate in the forums at freshalloy.com you could probably get some better opinions, besides, I know I have alot of fun there and check it out every couple of days, there's a good interview with hirschberg, and the infiniti racing team also.
The Ranger outsells the Frontier because of personal utility. In general, it provides more value dollar for dollar to the average purchaser than any of the other compact trucks (this explains why it's first in sales). How they weight each area of value is personal opinion.
BTW, you can get a Frontier for less $$$ than a Ranger.
Thanks for the wonderful input, especially the name-calling, generalizing, and stereotyping.
Mazdas seems to be optioned quite a bit differently than Rangers. They put everything in big packages.
Also, Rangers tip the scales between 100-200lbs more than Frontiers (given similar trim levels/drivetrains). Tacomas are 100lbs or so lighter than the Frontiers (making them around 200-300lbs lighter than a Ranger).
The following I took from an article on Ford's profits.
Ranger – Popular four wheel drive supercab model
with the 3.0L V6, accompanied with huge package
savings discounts and terrific Ford Credit – Red
Carpet Lease programs, have left many dealers bone
dry. The Ranger has been America's top selling
compact truck for 13 years in a row.
Like I said earlier,I personally know of 10 people who bought Fords since January who had their bankruptcies finalized during this same period.I know financing plays a big role in purchasing a vehicle,and I believe that people will go to where they can get the best deal.If this is not true then why am I reading all of the posts on price and deals?
I think dollar for dollar the Frontier is the better value.
Ford does offer the better rates.