Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Can Toyota handle being number 1?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
They do, don't they. Seems that problem is resolved. I'm thinking Toyota in the US at least, is just getting their second wind. They have FINALLY figured out that Americans also like good looking cars, not just well made cars. Good enough to attract me finally. If I were the big 2, I'd be very frightened. Toyota's biggest enemy is actually Korea IMO, followed by the unlikely Chinese now :surprise:
Hyundai is making little Toyota clones, that run as good as Fords do, for thousands less.
China will be doing the same too.
It's over for the US Automakers. Domination is never going to be possible again. The best they can hope for is to be a niche player in their own country - making something different than Toyota does, not trying to copy them, and failing.
I think you better check the consumer rating on the 2007 Camry again. It is at 8.7. The only Toyota's that are worse are the Highlander and Land Cruiser. 5 out of the most recent 6 reviews are below 7.1. This is straight off Edmund's. All within the last 2 weeks. If they have fixed the problems they should contact these very unhappy Camry owners. I suppose I would try to do damage control if I was selling them also. Toyota is in for a lot of bad publicity on this number one selling car in America.
rating 6.1
Vehicle
2007 Toyota Camry LE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Review
We purchased our first Toyota product, an '07 Camry LE AT in October 2006, after months of consideration and test driving them as rental cars (averaging 30 mpg all around and 34 highway); it replaced a 1989 2WD V6 Nissan Pathfinder that averaged 21.5 mpg. What happened?! With 4000 miles, it's been a disappointment, 24 mpg (mostly hi-way) and only 400 miles/tank! Each tank gets progressively fewer mpg. It seems to be a non-issue for Toyota who dismisses the complaint and makes excuses for winter driving, gas additives, etc. We expected much more from this car and are somewhat soured on Toyota already.
rating 4.1
Vehicle
2007 Toyota Camry LE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Review
The delay in acceleration and poor mileage makes this car worse than any other car in the segment. The delay in acceleration is so much, don't know how toyota let this car out in the market. Neither they have issued a recall on this. I'll file a complaint with the fed on this. It is a very basic necessity of the car that is incorrectly done.
rating 7.1
Vehicle
2007 Toyota Camry LE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Review
I've only owned the vehicle for 3 months, but have already put 12,000 miles on it. My biggest complaint is that there is a line of rust developing around both the front and rear window. It is clearly a flaw that exists, but Toyota insists that I must have scraped the paint off while removing snow. The car is garaged and has seen very little snow at all. The transmission is awful! The car is noisy & rattles which is why I say it feels cheap. I love the look, and the comfort, but would never buy one again.
rating 7.0
Vehicle
2007 Toyota Camry LE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Review
We've had Toyotas in the past and been happy, not with the Camry. Acceleration hestitates and then kicks in and jerks forward, it's not a safe feeling. We had it in four times for dash board rattles, and twice for an annoying brake squeak. They ended up replacing the brakes because they could not fix the problem. There was a strange high pitch ring in cold weather that came from under the car, they could never figure out what it was. We recently replaced it with a Volvo. Hopefully we'll have better luck.
rating 6.6
Vehicle
2007 Toyota Camry LE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Review
My new 2007 Camry is my fourth Camry in 26 years. I've always had great experiences with Camrys. I've driven my new one for 2600 miles and recently took it on the first long trip. The car hesitated during acceleration, repeatedly shifted gears during minimal acceleration, and ALWAYS down-shifted when using cruise control on slight inclines. In fact it down-shifted two gears to climb small hills in Florida and hit 4800 RPM in third gear. The dealer had already installed software changes related to hesitation but the car still reacts the same way. I loved my 2002 Camry since it rarely down shifted in cruise control. The 2007 cruise control reminded me of my 1981 Corolla!
"The delay in acceleration and poor mileage makes this car worse than any other car in the segment. The delay in acceleration is so much, don't know how toyota let this car out in the market"
And yet this person test drove it and still bought it? Wow, why would they pick the worst car in the segment? It isn't notably cheaper, it doesn't have notably better financing deals, so why buy it in the first place?
Or could it be you got a bad deal on the financing...or you didn't like your salesperson.......or......???
I remember people pointed out some customers like these back when the 2002 came out (early models had squeaks and rattles, it was the beginning of Toyota's recent "mea culpa" episode), and yet five years later it doesn't seem to have dampened the market's overall enthusiasm for this model.
I'm just saying you can't please all the people all the time, and Toyota never will either. But if it makes good on its assurances to the public that it will redouble its efforts to exert its traditional quality control standards and slow expansion if need be to get that done, it will be able to handle number 1 just fine.
Automotive News had an article this week in which a Toyota spokesperson is quoted as saying the days of double digit expansion in America are over. In fact, they are hoping for a 1.6% sales increase this fiscal year (beginning April 1), down substantially from last year's 15%.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Most of the complaints are from Toyota loyalists. This is something Toyota dealers have not had to deal with. Add to that the poor customer service ratings I think they are looking at a long summer. The 2007 Highlander also dropped way down in the consumer ratings on Edmund's.
The question how will Toyota handle being number ONE? It does not look like they are doing very well right now. They need to give their dealers a crash course in handling complaints. I think by the very fact that they are talking about doubling the effort to bring back traditional quality control says it all. You do not have to bring back something that you have not lost.
.. because there are too few of them
.. they are not random.
Do we know if the posters are real owners? Do we know if the posters have posted numerous times? If you were a competitor wouldn't you like to have your marketing department post let's say 'imaginative' reviews on such a widely read public forum?.....and vice versa!!!
My personal view is that there were several first-year model problems that were brought up by the public. This is not unusual for any maker, Toyota included. Every Toyota I've seen introduced has had something that was recallable or was an annoyance. I've had 9 of them since 1989.
As nippononly noted though the one common characteristic is that the errors get corrected and the problem disappears for the rest of the life of the vehicle. These are just man-made products afterall.
If they try to do the run around the block test drive that won't cut it either. I want to know how it handles and sounds at speed.
As to the claim about sweatshops and temporary workers?
One of the articles Steve posted was from 2004, and was an investigative reporter's memories of working in a Toyota plant 30 years ago in Japan. Interesting, but whenever I see something by an investigative reporter anywhere, I can almost guarantee there's a fair amount of poetic licence to be found. It's predominantly tabloid journalism at the best of times.
The other article was about the prevailent use of temporary workers everywhere these days.
While I don't agree with the policy, it is very common any more, so singling out Toyota as uniquely exploiting it isn't quite valid in my opinion.
All that said, I still believe Toyota can handle the No.1 spot quite handily, and there's no doubt in my mind they'll be there for quite a spell.
So long as they have few problems that are fixed right the fitst time they will remain number 1. I know what probably ticked folks off in the 80ies agaisnt the domestics wasn't just a few first year problems but things that went on and on without fix.
The plaintiffs bought hybrid vehicles from Toyota that IRS had certified as eligible for the credit, but later found out that they couldn’t claim the full credit (and in some instances none of the credit) when their tax returns were prepared. They claim that Toyota promoted the sale of the vehicles by talking up the credit, but failed to tell them that they wouldn’t be able to claim the credit - the classic bait and switch.
Federal class action lawsuit filed against Toyota for bait and switch tactics involving hybrid car tax credit
That's overstated. The spread between highest and lowest is in fact pretty narrow. Granted, Toyota is rated as slightly below average, but the point spread isn't "well below." If I recall it's only about 4 or 5 points!
Now that class action suit is something, but it is still before the courts and conclusions can't be made just yet.
Also, it wasn't JD Power you quoted--your post is incorrect when you say "according to JD Power they were caught in a bait and switch". The article you quote has nothing to do with JD Power, and that comment was just the author's observation.
Either way, will this affect Toyota's ability to handle its No.1 position?
I don't think so. Class action suits are a dime a dozen--it's the way of the world these days!
To me it is an issue. It will take time for the poor customer service to show up as lost sales. Now that they are number one they will get more negative press. If they were to lose a Federal case over the Tax credit issue it will not help sales either. Being number one is not always a good spot to be in. Ask President Bush.
To each his own, and I respect everyone's opinion in that respect.
I suppose if someone wanted to post the opposite, there would be challenges too.
That said, I spoke up only because I felt your observations were overstated and therefore could be misleading. Also a portion of the piece was quoted somewhat out of context.
Whether or not any of it will affect sales remains to be seen.
Otherwise I stand by what I posted.
Who knows, if Toyota is first with a small diesel PU truck I may get in line for one.
DETROIT, May 29 (Reuters) - A glitch in Toyota Motor Corp.'s Tundra pickup truck has caused 20 engine failures and forced it to track down other trucks at risk for the problem, the Japanese automaker said on Tuesday.
Toyota said a flaw in the camshaft in a limited number of 5.7-liter, V-8 engines installed in early versions of the Tundra has caused the engine component to crack and fail.
Toyota has billed the Tundra as its most important product launch ever. Its engine problems comes as Toyota faces pressure to maintain its reputation for quality in the face of a stretch of fast growth that has made it the world's largest automaker.
Tundra engine failures
When this stuff starts popping up
http://www.pistonslap.com/
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_dexcool.html
then they have something to worry about.
I passed it on to my friend who happened to buy a 5.7 back in March. I guess he already knew as some of his employees at his GM dealership were razzin' him about it over the weekend. I'm sure if there's an issue, he'll be the first to scream "bloody hell" about it.
Surely the truck has a ways to go before it gets as bad has his previous(2) GMC's... :lemon:
Here it says the number is undetermined.
It also says the responsbility is not really Toyota's--it's the other guy behind the tree who supplied the part!!! Doesn't Toyota check parts coming in for quality to the level they specified in the contract?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But if this kind of ambulance chasing tactics makes the anti-Toyota/Import crowd feel warm and fuzzy about some ridiculous "lack of quality control issue", widespread panic, OMG my Toyota is going to kill all the women and children of the world! then let us raise our glasses together and have a toast to Toyota's apparent demise.
LOL
Nope. Wrong again. It just makes some of say we were right; they do have problems; have had problems; and will continue to have problems. A company with the alleged reputation for being as "perfect" in their reliability as they are should now have something like the transmission snaprings and this occur. Not to mention sludging and transmission/motor/software problems continuing in their ES/Avalon/camry model.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Makes for interesting reading....
Yahoo is reporting that Toyota is tops in North American plant efficiency - link.
Chrysler nabs Toyota's Jim Press! (Straightline)
Chrysler lures Toyota's top U.S. executive (Detroit News)
BREAKING NEWS: Toyota's Press Goes to Chrysler (AutoObserver)
Or maybe the pressure over the new Tundra had something to do with Press's deciding to leave?
All in all, I know this is a thread about Toyota, but I really have alot of hope for Chryslers future. Nabbing Press is a huge step IMO.
And although it is a loss for Toyota I think they are in an enviable enough position that they will be just fine.
If they build some better small cars for Toyota and Scion and improve gas mileage considerably. And cut way down on production problems/errors of late, recall spark-ups, Camry tranny failures, etc. In nother words, Toyota is not fallible and there are lots of reasons that some carmakers can catch Toyota in the future.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And for Jim Press to leave, I am SURE it wasn't the money. I am afraid it might have been because he saw the company losing focus.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
DrFill
You got to be tired of looking at the same cars on the lot day in and day out... Put some excitement into your life. You don't want your friends to find out you sell Toyota :sick:
The Yaris sedan is OK but man, they really need some more small cars with a variety of designs and styles. Scion was a good idea but I'm not sure the new xB and xD are an improvement over the old xB and xA. I almost bought an xA but I couldn't catch my wife's attention long enough to have her really look at the car. Probably because it looked like a small import that was mundane looking. I still like the xA. Small is better.
Now Mitsubishi's new Lancer GTS for 2008 has turned me on to another reality in car production completely. Larger than the xA but another kind of car completely. Joy in driving and complete contentment looking at the Lancer's bodystyle. Mitsubishi is turning around due to the '07 Outlander and '08 Lancer's sales and some new ideas are flowing. Excitement in driving without even having to think of Pontiac's brand of excitement.
But Toyota is stale and huge and haunted. Their cars are so boring looking that anyone who appreciates car body design has to somehow change the reality they're in to even take a peek at them.
And Jim Press was the launchman of Scion? Chrysler just gained a bunch of goodness.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I just don't get it ?????? :confuse:
-Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think it dubious at best that where most car companies use a luxury GT or a genuine sports model to be the halo for their lines, Toyota uses the Land Cruiser. However, it is a model line with a looooong history for them, so in some ways it makes sense.
I thought they would surely drop this Range Rover competitor for the next gen, but I guess since they are going to build them for the Lexus line anyway, it can't hurt to pull out a few of the top features, slap on a Toyota badge, and try to sell the resulting truck for 8 grand less. But sales of this model were almost nil last year, at very similar prices. If this were a performance model (ahem, SUPRA, ahem) they would have dropped it long ago.
Hey, you GM folks, think of this as Toyota's Escalade! :-P
Hey, Toyota, anybody listening over there? How about some performance models some time soon???
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The new LX 470 or what ever it's called now though is a nice Ute.
-Rocky
The new 'Slade is too slab-sided. Lost a lot of style in the redesign. But the interior is finally ready for prime-time.
I don't think we need to dicuss which one will rockin' 20 years from now.
DrFill
Of course, GM has the Corvette for a halo vehicle as well, whereas Toyota has ????? Later it will have the LF-A, but we have yet to see what the press makes of it once it is finally available to drive. Can Toyota yet produce a car that genuinely has the speed and handling of the world's other supercars? I certainly have some doubt, but we will see.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
DrFill
(Not to mention that every time in the last decade Lexus has brought out a new sporty model that they say "goes toe to toe with BMW", the press have roundly criticized the drive as too remote from the road, too robotic without enough involvement, and never confidence-inspiring to explore the limits of handling.)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But they are all about getting paid right now. Sports cars don't pay the bills.
They had their fun, with Celica All-Trac, and MR2 Turbo, and Supra, but now Hybrids are the move, and sports cars just don't fit into the business plan.
At least not a pure sports car with a manual.
If they won't build Celicas anymore, why would they build a Supra?
DrFill
To at least show some sign of a pulse within the brand? They build good cars and trucks and they understand the intended market very well, but they need to spread their wings out from the Camry and Corolla. Hell, a Celica would go perfectly under the Scion name. A new Supra would jumpstart the excitement at Lexus (excluding the IS)
The argument you could make is:
1. The '93 Supra was the start of a product blitz that included T100 and Avalon.
2. Celebrate their entrance into Nascar.
3. Nissan Z has been a consistent sales success, a car Toyota could definitely outdo with ease. The 3.5, with a car 2-300 lbs less than a Z, would work out nicely, maybe off the Lexus IS platform?
4. With the LF-A joining the Lexus fold, a Toyota spin-off (of the plaform) would help amortize costs.
5. Toyota likes to do prove critics wrong. It may be time to "Cross The Line" once again.
DrFill
I do think that this is an anachronism from the 90's. It sells in miniscule quantities to a specialized clientele where money is of no concern. None.
On the beach here on the Outer Banks they're all over the place.
DrFill
Well the car market in NA is in a total decline right now so thats probably why Toyota's has soft sales expectations in NA are for the second half of this year I would think.
I actually agree you with on your above sentence.
"How does Toyota get people to work at McDonald's wages. No wonder they have quality issues."
What are you talking about a Toyota plant worker makes 30.00 dollars an hour so how is that McDonalds wages at all? As for Toyota having quality issues Toyota was not having quality issues like lets in 1997 that are having now its just that Toyota has much more of a bigger line-up in the US than it did 10 years ago. Plus, the 07 Camry and 07 Tundra are brand new and they are going to have quality issues in their first year of bodystyle. I think on a first year model like 10 years ago on a 97 Camry for example Toyota could work out the first year bugs on a model more because they were smaller than and they could put like alot resources into working out the first year bugs on a model. Today, Toyota spreads the resources into so many different vehicles because its so much bigger in terms of its size line-up in the US.
Yeah but Nissan's quality has fallen drastically even in Consumer Reports is near the bottom of the charts but Infinti is still near the top of the reliability charts I think in CR.
"The Saturn Aura, will steal sales from the Camry."
Well The Aura isn't exactly lighting up the sales charts. I have sat in one and it seems well made and well crafted on the interior but the styling is not for me.
However, I am afraid that 2007 Camry is likely to ruin the reputation of Toyota. Hope Toyota will take it seriously and solve the problem."
I don;t think the 07 Camry will ruin Toyota's reputatation unless Toyota doesn't get most of the first year bugs worked out on the 08 Camry.
I would say the last 10 years Toyota has been in the spotlight mainly in the US because their sales sales have gone up so much in the US in the past 10 years.