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New Toyota Highlander Hybrid Owners - Give Us Your Report
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These are good to have around just in case.
Here's the new experience - we just returned from a week in Jackson WY where - to my surprise - the rental agency had all Toyotas. We were booked for a compact (Corolla) but there was a HH 4WDi there that looked lonely, and I figured it was worth a shot to see if they would give a deal, and for $15 extra a day we upgraded (the rates were the best in town to start with). Nothing like driving the vehicle you know.
For those in forums asking about cold weather - it was -27 F several nights in Jackson (high about -4 to 0 F every day up to yesterday where the high was a balmy 10, all temperatures from the vehicle thermometer and consistent with the weather service). The HH started up each day, no problem, even after it sat probably 30 hours (we walked around town - quickly! - and adjusted to the air and altitude for a day before doing several days of cross-country skiing). In every way it performed as expected, including on snow packed and somewhat icy surfaces. The best (?) test was when a pack of wolves dashed into the road at dusk - stopped straight and true from 55 mph with no sense that it wouldn't perform. While not trying to push to the limit (just what we would have needed, another accident) I drove normally.
I reset the mpg about the third day and for the rest of the week we averaged about 22 mpg according to the dash (it read 25 before resetting), not bad considering we were doing mostly small hops (5 minutes some, 20 minutes most of the others) in VERY cold weather, not ideal conditions at all for an HH (we usually get 26-27 at home in Philly these days). First startup of the day was no problem, ever (and most of the vehicles at the motel, especially the bigger SUVs and and 4X4s all had block heaters plugged in over night).
A couple of notes - this was a 2007 HH non-limited but with the upgrade package (JBL speakers, sun roof, fog lights, etc.) plus 4WDi that in most respects was identical to our FWD 2006 without the package. The dash indicator has added the MPG average setting (useful but I've been keeping mileage notebooks for years so not that big a deal) and the headlights appeared (from my memory) slightly different, but little else. The JBL system sounded slightly muddier than the standard when listening to radio (we didn't bring along CDs) so other than it having a changer didn't really have anything over the standard, at least to my hearing. The strangest thing was adjusting to the extreme lag in the LCD displays on the dash and radio due to the cold.
It was a pleasant surprise to be able to rent an HH, made the driving comfortable and secure. Sorry to return home to a (not to be mentioned but domestic) rental car until our HH is fixed. - John
$89.95
Will watch my MPG for the next month or so and see if it goes back up.
I travel quite a bit for work, and while I'm gone my 06 HH AWD Limited sits in the driveway of my house under a carport to keep the leaves off of it. It's exposed to fairly mild weather (mountains of northern California). There's nobody to start it when I'm gone.
I just came back after 17 days overseas, and the HH started perfectly the next morning, as it always has when I've left it. Apparently some of you have had other experiences, but I haven't had any troubles due to lack of use of the car. The battery isn't new--the car was delivered to me in March 2006 so it and the car are now 14 months and 20,000 miles down the line.
Two questions - 1) what do I need to ask the dealer to do to get the mileage up on the vehicle??? I am a new owner (purchased in Dec. 07) and assumed that the mileage we were told was just a lie - now I read that it should be closer to 30 MPG - I am thrilled if that is in fact the case. 2) you state that the only thing installed in the car was an after market DVD - did Toyota install this for you? B/c if so, that is the exact same thing for me. And let me tell you - after the first time of the car not starting I check everything in the car before I leave it for any period of time, so at least for this second time, I KNOW that there was nothing on in the car (no lights, not even my cell phone charger plugged in), yet it still died on me.
Any advice? Is this perhaps a manufacturers defect that should be recalled?? I am about at the end of my rope, so any advice would be extremely appreciated - thanks!!
Thanks!!
In the '06 version, whenever the little 12V battery is disconnected or loses power, the idle speed controller loses parameters it needs to more efficiently run the engine. There was a tech bulletin asking shops to reset the controller if they touch the 12V. A shop will reset the controller so it can relearn the characteristics of your specific engine and adjust various parameters to run at what it believes to be maximum efficiency. During this time, your mileage will start out poor and progressively improve as it learns.
Another possibility to the low mileage is break-in. We babied our HH for a long time and the mileage kept improving over the first 2000 -> 5000 -> 7000 -> 12000 miles. It has now settled to 25-26 MPG given our normal driving style, our terrain and our traffic characteristics (lights, stop signs, traffic volume). If I am extra careful, I can get 27-28 MPG.
Hilly and mountainous terrain, lots of lights and short stop signs, lots of fast moving traffic requiring a lot of jack-rabbit start and stop or heavy acceleration are all factors that can impact efficiency.
Tire pressure can also be a possible cause if they are too low. Tire type too if they are too heavy.
Cold weather and use of Winter definitely impact mileage.
I understand the '08 version has the "EV" button that changes engine performance to favor fuel efficiency? May be try that mode?
The '06 HH is not a magic car that can instantly get stellar mileage. The '08 HH is much better, from what I have read so you should theoretically see better mileage as things break in, weather warms and so on.
Good luck.
Finally I dropped off the car at the dealer and told them to keep it until they changed the battery or gave me a new car. It took 3 days of them calling saying what do you want us to do with the car. Finally they tested the battery after they stressed it and it died for them also. They put in a new battery and we have gone 4 months and the battery light has started again. Has not gone dead yet but every now a then we get a service battery light. I fought with the Dealer and Toyota for months dont want to do it again but, I will.
I think they undersized the battery in the HH and should have run an emergency wire from the main battery's to the mini battery under the hood. It would be nice to not be stuck and able to press a button and get temp power from the huge battery packs under the seat to get going.
TOYOTA are you listening you undersized your battery in the HH.
Anyone else had a similar experience.?
We got our 06 HH around August '05 and the original 12V still works fine. The 12V has a little window that shows different colors. Blue is good and it has been blue all this time.
Good luck and let them know you post on-line so a bad response could easily spread like wild fire on-line. May be that will get them to at least do the warranty work.
I own a 2007 Highlander Hybrid and have now experienced a dead battery and inability to start the car 3 times now. Once after about 3 weeks of non-use and twice after approximately 11 days of non-use.
Took the car to the dealer who assured me that everything checked out just fine.
Would have lived with problem (although very inconvenient and potentially dangerous ie. if coming back to an airport after a trip) but was speaking to a group of individuals two of whom experienced the same problem with their Highlander Hybrids. Clearly this is not a random problem. One of the individuals was told by his dealer that battery is terribly undersized and should be replaced with a battery with greater capacity.
Called Toyota Central (1-800 331 4331 as recoomended in someone elses comments) and they were singularly unhelpful and uninterested. I pointed out that multiple people seem to be having this problem and was asked by them why I was not disconnecting my battry (WHY DON'T THEY PROVIDE A CUTOFF SWITCH ON THE DASHBOARD FOR THIS PURPOSE IF THIS IS NECESSARY?) Does anyone in America disconnect their battery for 2-3 weeks of non-use?
I insisted on speaking to a supervisor and was told by her that there is a warning on page 100 + something indicating that the Hybrid must be driven for 30 minutes every 2 weeks to guarantee starting. I pointed out that 2 people in my narrow circle of acquaitance seem to be having this problem and as a result this seems to be a larger problem and a Toyota not a customer problem, however, they simply didn't bite. If this is the appropriate working condition of the car I suggest they post a big red warning on the dashboard indicating that vehicle has to be used 30 min every two weeks or it won't start. I don't think this would be a major selling point if people actually knew or were aware of this inconvenience.
The Highlander Hybid is a hot product but Toyota still has a responsibility to provide a useful working product that operates according to the local norm. Every other car I know can last two weeks without having to drive it and still start. If this one can't they should fix it or post a more prominent warning.
If your experiencing this problem (and I can't believe that there aren't many since I know 2 personally) I would complain like crazy to Toyota, on line, and to the National Safety Council (as I believe this has a safety as well as inconvenince component).
In the mean time Toyota should be embarressed that those writing here about having this problem and myself and at least two other people locally are being ignored. I expected more Toyota when I bought their product.
Yesterday the dealer who sold us the car, Middletown Toyota of Middletown Ct, snagged us as the 15000 mile service.
We brought our Highlander Hybrid in for an oil change. The service advisor showed us an official looking chart explaining many other services "needed" at 15000 miles, including a tune up and new PCV valve. They said it was because the car is a hybrid. The charge for the service was $250 rather than the $25 the oil change cost. We thought this was Toyota's recommendation, and since we had never owned a hybrid before, we believed the dealer. When we got the car back, we read the manufacturer's recommendation, that said we didn't need any of that extra service until 60000 miles. The dealer ripped us off for $225 in service we didn't need.
I post this since the only reason I fell for it was being a new hybrid owner, so if you don't want to be a rube like me, thoroughly know your service needs before you walk into the dealer service department.
It's good too to see that the HH people (Hybrid Haters) are no longer active. I've read through some of the early posts and it seemed like a lot of people here as well as the TCH forums went out of their way to bash hybrid technology. I guess after seeing $5 diesel fuel and even seeing their beloved GM apply hybrid technology in their "gotta have one" pickup trucks, they had to shut up.
I've never had to defend my purchases in the past and I've had many impractical vehicles, but many people do honestly and sincerely question the purchase of a hybrid.
After two and a half years driving a Camry Hybrid, I have a better idea as to what I can expect with the Highlander. Yes I do wish it had the 4cy hybrid setup, but this will have to do as it is what is available for now.
I didn't expect my HH to replace my Expedition, it replaces my car. Thus having the awd, large storage, easy access, comfortable room AND having better FE than most cars certainly makes this a painless decision. Also due to its practical use, it will replace the 14mpg Expedition on many nominal duties that the car couldn't handle previously.
I know my driving habits and see no reason why I can't match or exceed the EPA ratings. But even if I don't, 24 to 25 is pretty amazing for a vehicle like this.
Over the past years it has become obvious to me many people don't know how to calculate their FE in mpg's. They typically quote their car's abilities based on a recent road trip, seldom do they know their overall average. I've tracked FE on most of my cars for 20+ years and typically I average very close to the lower city number although the large percentage of my driving miles were interstate.
Even still many don't realize that going from a vehicle that gets 17 mpg to 25 mpg is almost a 50% gain in FE. I hear them say, well 25 mpg is not all that great. Hey, that can cut your gasoline bill in half! Anyway, I don't have to justify myself and educating people is not in my job description so ....
I don't have a lot of miles on the HH yet, just picked it up this week. Will take it on our first road trip this weekend and have a trip to NYC planned in early Dec. The main use of the HH will be for my wife to comfortably and safely commute to our son's house to babysit our granddaughter. My wife has a bum knee and the HH is a lot more comfortable and has easier entry / exit than the car. Getting into the rear with the power liftgate is going to be a real plus when carrying a baby carrier. We can actually use the liftgate for the other grandchild to stand under if the weather is bad while loading the baby.
The interior is heads and shoulders more handsome than the Camry and most cars that I have seen. Yes, I wish the Japanese would copy the Germans on interiors, but I'll take Japanese technology and electronics anyday over German Engineering.
The HH gives you all of the advantages of high seating / view, carry capacity, comfort and the room of an SUV without the guilt of knowing you're driving a gas hog just to drive the kids around. That did not use to bother me but more and more I find that wasting natural resources, especially when you fund terrorist activities by doing so just doesn't make sense.
I'm still waiting on the hybrid sports car. I'm ready for another sports car but am willing to wait until the technology gets applied across the car lines. I'd really like a Vette that gets 30 mpg (average, not just highway).
I do wish it was cheaper since that would make it available to many who really could benefit from the operational savings.
For now the HH just makes a lot of sense for me. It's a good fit with our lifestyle and needs.
Nice post. Our 2008 HH is now a little over 2 weeks old. We took it on a road trip this past weekend which was almost 600 miles round total. We averaged 26 to 27 mpg the whole trip.
I'm not sure what you mean about people not knowing how to calculate their FE: Don't you simply trip your odometer at every fill up and divide the total miles by number of gallons at a complete fill up? Maybe I'm one of those doing it wrong?
Anyhow, my calculation pretty much matches up with the number showing up on the onboard computing system. I was so curious if it was accurate that when I saw the system reporting 29 mpg only 90 miles after a fill up that I filled it up and sure enough, less than 3 gallons were needed!
So we are at about 800 miles now and getting about 26 to 27 mpg. I hope this continues.
True, it is simple, however my experience is most people only figure out their FE when they go on vacation or a trip or by using the computer reading on a trip.
You don't know how many times I bit my lip when friend were totally unimpressed that I averaged 37.5 mpg over 63,000 miles in a Camry Hybrid. I'd get comments like, my Lexus ES just showed 35 last weekend, or I get 33 all the time. One neighbor even claims her Escalade with the big engine gets 20+ MPG! I've seen the numbers and yes on a highway trip only perhaps. But just like in my Expedition, I can go along and be getting 17.5 on the interstate and when I get off an exit to eat and drive a mile or two, byt the time I get back on I'm back down to about 14.5. Big vehicles just can't get 20+ currently .
Anyway, most of them are not impressed that I'm getting about 25 while I'm breaking in my HH. I've given up on trying to educate them.
On another note, on my first trip I've noticed that (at least compared to mile markers) my HH is reading about 2% low on the odometer. That's a little better than the TCH which was about 3%. I didn't check this with a GPS but was surprised no one had checked this on the HH threads. When the TCH came out we were pretty fanatical about all that. In the TCH the speedometer was off fairly significantly, but that didn't affect the FE calculation.
My 4Runner seems to be accurately measuring an empty tank, but apparently the Hybrids have a bigger safety factor built in. I was just wondering if this is everyones experience with the HH or if I might see something different next time.
Yes, Bridgestone makes Blizzak tires in this size. So far that is the only ones I have found.
I live in NE North Dakota and we have had a very snowy fall, and had lots of snow last winter (I bought my 2008 HH in Nov. 2007). It does great in the snow. I haven't been able to get it stuck even when trying to test to limits. The stock tires, after 7000 miles, do not have great grip on ice. But they are more than adequate. Just slow down.
The VDIM does a great job of keeping you in control, but it does have limits. If you try to make a turn on ice too fast, it will prevent you from spinning out of control, but you may not be able to make the turn you intended.
My experience is that mine will take 14.2 (thus leaving 3) just a few miles after the low gas light comes on.
You can order them from smartbuytires.com, they are $232 each.
I agree that Toyota has done its customers a disservice by selling the HH with only the 19" wheels. The 17" standard tires would have been better, Toyota does not actually ship any HH's with those tires.
As for snow, I researched this a lot before buying. Yes, the HH has a unique set up with the motor driving the rear wheels but for other than really deep snow and with proper tires this should be more than adequate.
Also, It might be cheaper in the long run to pick up a set of Hylander 17" wheels to put "cheaper" and smaller snow tires on if you plan to keep the vehicle long term.
After 84,000 miles, I am fairly comfortable driving another 50 miles after the light comes on.
It's been in the 20's here a lot and I'm getting around 23 so I see no reason I shouldn't average 25 when it warms up. I am finding that the computer is almost 2mpg over reading the FE. I don't see why that is so hard of thing to get right
Overall I am real happy with the HH. I am considering the 2010 Prius to share duty with the HH, or perhaps the new TCH when it gets the Gen3 hybrid system.
I am paying alot more than Im used to, but Ive never had the feeling of every time i sit in my car, I absolutely love it. Totally worth every red cent.
"I find out that the car drives mainly in front wheel mode and is not all time all wheel drive like my other highlander. I ... am terrified of driving it in the snow....Had I been aware of the fact that this is a vehicle for Florida, I would have kept my original until they made a hybrid that can be driven in all climates"
According to the reviews at Edmunds, the first-gen Highlander Hybrid AWD wasn't true AWD, but rather included a third electric motor, on the "AWD" model, that kicked in on the rear wheels when additional traction was needed. The gas engine, according to those reviews, never distributed power to the rear wheels. Still, I've seen drivers from high-altitutude, heavy-snow areas say the HH "AWD" performed great for them in snow. Your fears may be unfounded: I'm guessing maybe a salesperson or literature just made you aware for the first time of how the HH "AWD" works, and you didn't realize that's how it worked in the previous gen HH, too.
1. Brake slippage or gap at low speeds to a stop. I am sure that some of you know what I am talking about.(The braking we are told that we have to get used to by most dealers).
2. FE Highway city ratings are actually reversed for me. Worse in the city than highway. I bought this car mostly for city driving. I live in a slightly hilly area, Essex county, Northern NJ so we are not talking mountains and am lucky to get about 18-20 MPG with city only driving. Worse in winter with running the heat and engine taking longer to warm up. Highway best was 28MPG but usually around 25.
3. Hasn't happened for me yet but a friend and others have reported that the stock tires go bad quickly. At 15K my friends tires were almost bald. In fact their HiHy slid down a hill unoccupied, while it was parked one icy day. Lucky that it didn't hit anything. Keep an eye on those tires.
4. Rear visibility was decreased in the 2009 Ltd.
That's about it, but the brake thing bothers me the most right now. I am wondering what is the difference with this problem and the Prius braking problem.
Other wise it is the best car I have ever owned. Smooth ride, fast, good pick up, comfortable, pretty good on gas mileage but not as good as the rating suggests. Definitely not enough to recoup the extra dollars spent on a Hybrid as far as I can see.
One other thing is the Nav is not my favorite so far, we have not had GPS in any car up until now so maybe it will be handy when needed. I do like the other features the screen provides (consumption #1, radio touch screen etc.)
I have reached 100,000 (all highway miles as I have homes in Fl and NY)miles and recently had dealer replace the timing belt, spark plugs, front brakes and rotors, gas motor starter battery, and while there they told me tha transaxle is making a sound indication replacement is necessary: Cost $6,100.00. In addition I am told that the main battery pack ($3,500.0) will most likely need replacing soon. All my oil changes have been on time and all factory service work done at the dealers.
My vehicle has the factory tow package and I have towed my 16 foot boat a total of approx 1200 miles (total weight boat & trailor is less than 1500 lbs)
I was never told this vehicle has a practical life expectancy of 100,000 miles and I drove 2 Honda Hybrids in excess of 150,00 miles with none of these expensive repairs.
Looks like this will be my last Toyota vehicle.
Dennis
They are alluding to the 100k warranty on the hybrid components, that does not mean it needs replacement. They are trying to sell you repairs. Tests by Toyota on Prius battery packs show they are fine at 180k.
I think the same may be true in regard to the rear transaxle, but it is too late for you to get a second opinion (did they offer you the old parts back?)
If all of your driving was on the highway, there should have been no reason to replace the front rotors. Since this car uses regenerative braking, there is far less wear on the brakes. The pads may have needed to be changed, but the rotors should have been fine.
Try another dealer for future repairs.
The two problems I have with the Prius are 1. on LONG, STEEP, STRAIGHT high altitude climbs, the battery boost is gone in 3-5 minutes and you have to get over the rest of the pass much slower than normal. 2. There is a problem with the gas tank bladder so that when it's cold and you fill the tank, there are not really 12 gallons in the tank even though the gauge show full. Otherwise, the Prius is really worthwhile.
I followed Edmunds.com and other car website's buying tips, got 3 competing bids from nearby dealers via email, ranging from $500 below MSRP (haha!) to close-at-invoice. Finding an actual 2011 HH at any dealership for sale was more tricky --- I guess they sell fast, plus the dealers wanted to get rid of their 2010 models. A day later, I walked into one dealership with an email from a different dealership, which was offering to me a 2011 HH at a few hundred $$$ above invoice, but didn't actually have it. So, after about 90 min of negotiations, I purchased a fully loaded Limited for essentially invoice price. My HH has the nav, DVD, JBL, bluetooth wireless and Ipod/mp3 player wired hookup, sunroof, upgraded JBL sound (which is very good). The folks at the dealership were friendly and helpful. The initial walk-around and intro to the features of the car by their hybrid expert was very helpful. I did spend about 12 hours on research before buying, and this forum is the best when it comes to information from real-world owners, sharing their good & bad experiences.
What I didn't know: A cargo lid/trunk cover is NOT included, even in the Limited trim, and if I'd buy one, it would have been $480+tax. No thank you. Also got my floor liner from Weathertec, pricey but very good in the winter here.
The keyless entry/ignition is fun, you don't need to ever take out your key to open, start, or lock the car.
Now, with a little over 2200 miles on the odo, I am reporting high satisfaction. I love the quiet ride. The 4-wheel drive was performing perfectly in our often bad weather, even allowing me to drive to work during the Chicago Blizzard (yes, the one where the pic of Lakeshore Dr backed up went all around the world), on the actual day. Fantastic power and pickup. Integration of the bluetooth to my iPhone is great, I'm streaming music and other audio files without ever having to take the phone out of my pocket. When the 3 month Sirius satellite free subscription is over, I'll just stream from iTunes or Pandora, also YouTube works.
(Sirius has way too many commercials on for me to pay them a subscription fee, and traffic info updates via Sirius to the Navigation system is often delayed, so I personally don't see the point of paying for that)
Back to the car: 85% suburban driving, anywhere from 25 -50 mph. FE here is 26-29, depending on how easy I take it on the gas pedal. The other 25% on highways, on those I go 60-65 mph and get about 33 mpg. I'm not doing the pulse&glide, find it too annoying for fellow drivers, but gently cruising towards a red light/stop sign nets EV mode after initial warmup of the engine/cat. converter (4-6 min in our cold winter weather, and I'm there). The EV mode is very much dependent on conditions like road inclines, speed, head or tailwind. I find that, at 35 mph on even surface the car spends about 85% in EV mode, really bringing up the bars on the economy meter to 60 mpg. Fun to watch. All screens and functions are well layed out and informative. The nav seems old fashioned in its design (colors, no 3-D map, can't customize your marker), but works well.
Seating position is excellent. I'm 6'2" and this is like driving in a comfy recliner. 9-way seating adjustments are plenty. Heated seats are great in our cold winters.
Plastic on dash is a bit on the hard and cheap side, but how many times is it being touched? I'm OK with it.
The fact that all rear seats can be layed flat on one side and still being able to seat 4 is fantastic. Seats are comfy in all rows. The DVD player hasn't been used much, but you can put the audio on either the wireless head sets that came with the car (2), or output it to the speakers in the car, which makes for awesome sound. Also it's possible to hook up a game system or even VCR if necessary. There is a 110V outlet in the left side of the trunk for these things, or for a plug in cooler etc. Great feature.
I'd definitely recommend this vehicle to anyone looking for something that gets fantastic gas mileage, seats 7, is very flexible in terms of seating/cargo, and looks great. I've been driving a Honda Odyssey before but wanted a more fuel efficient car. With gas here in Chicagoland being just shy of $4 (if you read this later this year, I think we all look back and feel that that price was a bargain!), I know I made the right choice.
O yes, and lastly, the HH engine and it's graphic info systems changed my driving habits - I'm swimming with traffic, but have learned to go easy on that accelerator for higher mpg. After spending the first 400-500 miles at 25-26 mpg, I now get 27-30 mpg in mixed driving.
Dennis