He slid down a hill on ice (was going too fast), through a stop sign, across the road, off the cliff and into a thicket of trees. I guess the trees acted like a cushion because even though the nose, hood and fenders were torn off the cab stayed intact.
...a tree was stuck in the engine compartment.
After all that to come out unscathed except for sore knuckles, from holding on during that ride, you had the audacity to put a scratch on that boy when he got home (post108)?
You should be hanging your head in shame.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
no, chances are a single seater would be too sporty.
parents need to instill on their children that when driving the cell stays in the pocket. no fiddling with an MP3. no driving friends from here to there. keep the radio off.
if they want to drive somewhere, they do so with mom and dad while they pick up hundreds of hours of necessary experience.
really, except in justifiable scenarios, the kids(and that is what they are at (16, 17, 18) shouldn't be in vehicles behind the steering wheel without mom or dad.
but if they "have" to be driving (?), then they need to be hyper cautious, extremely responsible, and they need much much much more experience than we are probably providing them.
user....all good points. Maybe it's a function of my age, or maybe, the rattle traps I drove when I was a teen, gave me respect on what should/shouldn't be done on the road. My first car(s) had to anti-lock brakes. They had bald tires...all of them rear wheel drive Most had a front-rear weight bias that was akin to a forklift (only in the opposite way). If I had had a cell phone or CD/MP3 player to fiddle with when I was first driving, there's no question in my mind I'd be lucky to be alive today.
It was hard enough just to keep my cars pointed in the right direction, let alone having to pay attention to a cell phone. I will admit I use a cell phone in my car now, but I use a bluetooth kit to talk on it while driving (love those).
It used to be people reading the newspaper, applying make-up, etc. while driving distracted. Now, it's texting, talking on the cell phone, and my personal bone headed favorite....distracted by that DVD playing in their screen while driving.
Everyday, I see someone driving while doing at least one of these "activities" while they're driving. I have to think to myself, if you want your kids to understand the danger of doing these things while you're on the road, then set a better example yourself!
It's an old cliche, but it all starts with the parents teaching the lesson.
What is a bit shocking to me when talking to young drivers (under 18 yo) is that they fully expect to get into a fender bender or two AND they all have at least one friend who has had several accidents.
One of the cars in my fleet was sideswiped TWICE by the same 16 year old girl. The first time, we let the parent pay for the damage without reporting it. The second time, we got the police involved.
The Chicago Tribune has been publishing a year long series about teen drivign accidents. Also, the AAA has produced a DVD for new teen drivers that I have heard is pretty good.
Personally, as I have said ten times at least, the vehicle for the teen driver is less important than the training of the teen driver who will be handling the vehicle.
Personally, as I have said ten times at least, the vehicle for the teen driver is less important than the training of the teen driver who will be handling the vehicle.
Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Instead of worrying about which car little Johnny and Janey should get (and who should pay for it), let's teach them how to drive, first.
>Instead of worrying about which car little Johnny and Janey should get
But having the kid have a popular CR-V or Rav-4 model helps the parent's image and how they appear to others. And of course if you buy a Mercedes or Lexus model for the youngun' that's even more impressive to other parents.
It is sometimes about parent's lack of self-esteem, IMHO, rather than what the kid needs, should have, could have, wants. I look at the cars being driven by the 130 plus members of the Marching Band who do drive, the cars were very practical and often are leftovers that were what parents had bought. There were few image cars, if any. But when I see the high school parking lot the mix of image cars goes up exponentially. There also are many beater cars in the lot, to be honest. But the personal image is deeply involved in the choice.
I'm glad someone mentioned a DVD from AAA. I'll check into a copy.
we need to teach them how to drive, and we need to help them help themselves limit distractions.
i do think putting them in a SUV isn't the best choice and should be avoided if possible. i think a child needs to be shown the different driving dynamics of a SUV vs. non-SUV. for that matter, it's probably good for adults to know the difference. apparently, it's not just a matter of driving dynamics.
i think a child needs to be shown the different driving dynamics of a SUV vs. non-SUV.
What drove me crazy as a teenager was that the car that my parents had was a huge 1965 Dodge station wagon ... and drivers training was in a smaller car.
Seriously, as the Chicago Tribune series highlighted, most teens get very limited driver's training usually in a less than optimal situation. It is necessary for the new driver to get MANY HOURS behind the wheel in a supervised situation. IOW, the teen driver should be driving his parents around a LOT before flying solo.
Pity my poor father who had to teach me to drive. Hour after hour of driving in the parking lots at Beechmont Mall, usually from 10 pm - midnight.
It is sometimes about parent's lack of self-esteem, IMHO, rather than what the kid needs, should have, could have, wants.
In addition to self-esteem, I think you can add ‘guilt’. Parents now feel they have to give their kids everything that all the other kids have to make up for the lack of attention they give theirs. After all, they love their kids just as much as the other parents love theirs, even if they can’t afford it. I know, this mentality always existed but not to the extent that we have today.
When we had the now almost extinct “stay at home mom”, the kids had a lot more attention given to them, received immediate discipline when needed and had a much better understanding of what a dollar was worth. Not to mention, they were pleased as punch if they even had a car (which was always used) when they were still in high school.
The thing that bothers me is when I have to share the road with these selfish brats of today. Way too many of them are predisposed with all the widgits that the cars now have rather than paying attention to the issue at hand.
I know I just made some very generalized statements because there are still some parents that do it right, just not enough, like the ones that are here discussing the kids of today and how they drive.
There I go again, showing my age.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
j.....you have the same theories I do. Love and guidance is not measured by the amount of money we give, nor the material things we grant to our children. There's no suitable replacement for our time, our energy, nor our love for our kids.
Money isn't....a car isn't....neither are clothes, jewelry, cell phones, XBOXes, etc.
Maybe I'm the one who doesn't get it. Maybe parenting has passed me by. Maybe I should just be glad that myu parenting duties are almost finished (but, are they ever just finished....no matter what the age?).
Maybe I'm the one who doesn't get it. Maybe parenting has passed me by.
Oh, .... you get it alright, it didn't pass you by.
Maybe I should just be glad that myu parenting duties are almost finished (but, are they ever just finished....no matter what the age?).
Surprise, as if you didn't know; as long as you have breath in you, parenting never ends.
My two sons have been out of the house for a while now with little ones of their own (in fact, we just found out about two hours ago that my youngest son and his wife are going to have another one, their second. I'm trying to scrape Mrs. jmonroe off the ceiling as we speak.) and whenever I see something that needs attention, I don't hesitate to let them know. You just have to pick you spots/words a little better.
After all, they are adults.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hello to everyone, I was just reading through a few posts and this board caught my eye.
IMHO, (which is the opinion of a 16 year old male, btw) one of the best ways to deter a teen from driving a vehicle like a moron is for them to buy said vehicle themselves. I covered the costs of my first car entirely, and even though it's 30 years old and could destroy anything in it's path, I couldn't be more careful when driving it. For many teens, buying a car is the first HUGE financial investment. $1000-$5000 may not sound like alot, but it's more than most of us younger people have ever seen made out to our names.
To go a step further, (it's what I did) you could have a teen pay for the car, and then place the financial onus on the parents when it comes to insurance. That'll learn 'em to be extra careful. (Learn the kids, that is...may have some effect on the parents, we're not sure yet. The study is still in progress)
I personally think the worst thing a parent could to do to prevent horrendous driving is to give a teen YOUR car! I know a few people who have vehicles given to them for the day, and believe me, they treat them like absolute garbage. And it's not that the vehicles deserve to be treated that way; these are not wrecks we're talking about. One that comes to mind is a high-dollar mercedes SUV a friend of mine is given. He drives the thing like it's a retired fork lift, save for the burn-outs at every stop sign. Good thing he has all the traction control goodies to keep him from plowing into someone's back yard.
There's another good point. We really do think we're invincible, duh. However, ABS, traction control and air bags that deploy out of the cup holders really help to reinforce that belief. This is where alot of respect for the road, the vehicle, and the occupants' safety are lost. My car has no ABS, not a cicuit board in sight, and hasn't even heard the word "air bag". Going down a local 12% gradient, with a 90 degree turn at the end while it's -20 outside and the road covered in snow and ice tends to demand that I respect the limits of my vehicle.
I'm not at all trying to preach "Don't buy SUVs with Traction Assist". Not at all. Besides, that subject is way beyond the scope of what I'm trying to get across. I'm meerly saying that new drivers really need to know the reality of thier safety, and that they aren't invincible behind the wheel. There is a fine line to walk here though, as having someone fear the road is counter-productive to what we're trying to accomplish here.
There is also the topic of driving schools, but it's a very menial one. Most 25-hour schools are 10h in-car, 15h in class. I mean really, I've fogotten almost everything I was taught in-class, and half my in-car lessons were "This lever selects gears"..."Watch your blind spots"..."BRAKE!!!".
Bottom line, really, is to let the reality sink in to the teen (which is what I've learned thus far):
-We really aren't indestructible (I know, it hurts...but we're not...let out a good cry if you must) -Respect your vehicle. You'll never respect the route until you respect what's taking you through it. -Try to enjoy what you're doing, no one's in a big hurry, and pay attention to the issue at hand. This is a privledge, remember?
AND, if all else fails, just let this last point hit home:
You're already paying more for insurance than you paid for the car(In most cases). One major accident and you may as well hang up the keys until your 25, that is, after all, when you're insurance premiums will drop slightly.
Sounds like you are a very responsible 16 year old. Congratulations. I can't imagine there are too many like you.
He drives the thing like it's a retired fork lift, save for the burn-outs at every stop sign. Good thing he has all the traction control goodies to keep him from plowing into someone's back yard.
I hope you don't have first hand knowledge of this, otherwise, I might have to rescind what I just said.
In any case keep up the good work.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, I've never met one of those in my entire life. All the kids I know want nothing to do with parents driving them around, how restrictive and un-cool!!
Ryan77300d, you sound like a sensible person who will go far in the world. Glad to have you participating in our community!
i know a couple high school seniors like that! maybe it's because mom/dad picks you up in the merc/bimmer. in the winter it's warm, and in the summer it's cool when you go home after practice? :confuse:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Thanks to all who commented, it's very much appreciated
I hope you don't have first hand experience...
haha, no, I wouldn't put the drivelines of my parents' cars through harsh burn outs just to woo some onlookers...wish I could say the same for others though...as for my car, burnout? Ha! It's got less than 80hp, best not to talk about that...
Anyways, on the subject of teen drivers who don't want to get thier license, I know a few, and I can't grasp why someone wouldn't want to exercise a new privledge they now have access to. In Canada, where I live, we have a G1, and then a G2. G1 means you can only drive with a parent (for 8 months) and then G2 (after 8 months and after passing an in-car exam) you're on your own. Alot of people I know don't even go for thier G1 because they hear the test is too difficult. More often than not, people just assume the tests are too hard for them to pass, and therfore just put it off.
That's how it is up here anyways, and there's always the universal "I don't care/am too lazy/am too tired" :P
It is necessary for the new driver to get MANY HOURS behind the wheel in a supervised situation. IOW, the teen driver should be driving his parents around a LOT before flying solo.
I and everyone else I’m sure, agrees that you can’t have too much practice before driving on your own. It’s just that for years after you start to drive you’re still learning and perfecting your skills. You get better each time out and it just takes time.
This is as good a time/subject to finish the tale that I started in post 145.
Like I said in post 145 the very first time my oldest son took the car out he had an accident and I would never have given him the keys if I didn’t think he was ready. He spent countless hours behind the wheel before taking his test, to the point that he was down to the last week on his permit before I took him for his test.
In order to qualify for a discount on insurance he had to attend an accredited drivers training course, regardless of the number of hours he spent with me. So, we wanted to have him attend the best one we had heard about. However, because this drivers ed course was known to be one of the best, there was a waiting list and he couldn’t be enrolled until after his permit would have expired and he had taken the drivers examination test. I’m the one to blame here because I was unaware of the popularity of this course and didn’t look into it soon enough, which at the time had an almost 4 month waiting list.
He takes this course and passes the written exam with an almost perfect score which then allows him to be taken out for the required 10 hours behind the wheel. I know, 10 hours barely scratches the surface for what is needed to become even remotely proficient to take a drivers examination but that’s what the insurance companies required for a discount at the time (I have no idea what it is today).
After the last hour behind the wheel, as was the way this drivers ed course did it, the professional driving instructor would come into the house to discuss how the student performed and to let the parents know if more hours behind the wheel were necessary before they would sign-off that the student was qualified for the insurance discount.
Well, this driving professional looks me right in the eye and says, “It’s as plain as the nose on your face that you have spent a lot of hours teaching you son how to drive. He’s one of the best I’ve had in a long time. You won’t have any problems with this kid. You should be very proud of him”.
No, he didn’t know about his accident on his very first time out. I didn’t feel he had to know because I wanted to hear what he was going to say after the last hour of drivers training and I didn’t want to bias his professional opinion. I’ll never forget how emphatic he was with his words of praise and encouragement.
So much for what a “professional driver” knows about how a teenager will handle themselves!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
it's great getting a different perspective, although because of nafta, 'you' are pretty much 'us'. connecticut has a graduated licence, too. for the 1st 3 months, only adults as passengers, next 3 only adults or family members that are not adults, after that, anyone. i don't know where in canada you are, but i have driven through ontario from ny to michigan many times.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I figure I'd chime in since I'm not very far off from the time when I recieved my first car. Right now im 22, but when I was 16 my dad gave me his 1998 Buick Regal [i posted on it earlier as a good teenage car earlier if any of this sounds familiar].
Now I agree with the many of you who believe that a teenager should earn all automobile privaledges. However, my scenario is quite probably the exact opposite. You might think im spoiled, tho i wouldn't think of it to be like that.
My parents gave me the car and I was not held responsible for gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. Both my parents worked full-time jobs and realized this would be a chance for them to unburden themselves by letting me drive myself around.
Now at this point I bet ya'll are thinking i must've trashed it ... thankfully that hasn't been the case. I have never received a ticket, never been in any sort of accident and have never been pulled over by the police. The car looks & runs identical to the day my father gave it to me, especially the interior. Everytime a new friend enters the car they surpised to the showroom condition of the vehicle.
Now we get to the my point ... what could this proper driving behavior be attributed to? I didn't work or have any "skin", as its been called, into this vehicle. So what is it?
My explanation has to do with, what i believed to be, my early comprehension and respect for the value of money. From a young age I watched my parents work very hard, and at the same time we lived EXTREMELY modestly. Not having a ton of flashy things [electronics, high end cars, for ex.] around me growing up didn't "train" me to demand expensive items. For example, I wanted a car but never demanded one. It was my dad who offered me the car, I figured he would have simply traded it in [the 98regal] for his next ride.
Instead, I was bestowed the priveledge of a car. How could I repay them for such a generous action? My answer was TO NOT SCREW ANYTHING UP. I realized that I wasn't paying anything, the LEAST I could do was act like an adult and treat the car knowing that any misbehaviour would result in a removed license. Why would I act in such a good way, one word, PARENTING.
Honestly, I think this is what it all boils down too. Parents should give whatever car they deem safe for their kids. Mine had ABS, traction control, front airbags and have served me well. However, how a teenager will react to a car will only be decided how good a job the parent has done in teaching respect for hard work and other people. I respected my parents by driving as cautiously as possible, always calling [in highschool] when I planned on using the car and who would be driving with me. I knew what my consequences would be for misbehavior or even worse, an auto-accident.
Even with this spotless record, I dont consider myself that mature since I knew of kids that worked in high school to pay for their car. Kids who can work for their car while balancing school are the maturest of the bunch. In my case, my parents wanted me to specifically focus on school, since a side job could be detrimental towards my grades. Well, all my focus has paid off and im in my final semester as a civil-engineering undergrad ready to go for my masters.
Sorry for a lengthy post, but I just wanted to demonstrate my example of a grateful teenager obeying the rules of the road who DIDNT have to pay anything.
On a side note: I can totally see how kids can demand cars or high-end cars if thats all they are surrounded by or dont know better. In that case, parents need to clamp down and introduce them to an attitude adjustment. I know plenty of this cuz in the town i live in, literally every family participates in the -getting-a-kid-a-beemer-for-16th-bday- tradition. I just laugh when i see it happen, you won't get very far in life if you feel you are owed things by people. Like one forum member posted somewhere, if you want something, you have to get it yourself.
So much for what a “professional driver” knows about how a teenager will handle themselves!!
If a professional driver went out of his way to praise a teenager's driving I'd likely conclude that even the best of drivers have accidents. The best we can do is minimize risk but Murphy's Law still applies.
tidester....mimimizing Murphy's Law is what we're trying to get at. I agree.
Ryan....you sound like you've "got it together". Good for you.
As far as cars for a teenage driver....I know teens kind of lean towards the Civics and Corollas. Nothing wrong with either of those. They're bulletproof. They are good on gas.
I'm partial to the mid '00s Hyundais since my son has had such a good experience with his Elantra. They're cheap to buy and cheap to keep. He knows resale value will be poor, but by his reckoning, it won't matter. He'll drive it until the wheels fall off, Which, by the looks of things, could take a very long time.
Personally, I like the American iron...like Buicks and Fords. They've been made for awhile. Have proven reliable. And, the recent versions (about 5 years old) have up-to-date safety features (airbags, anti-lock).
Put a good set of snow tires on a Crown Vic and you're good to go.
I bought my daughter a 1996 Ciera with 30,000 miles. Literally driven my an old lady and never out of the garage. It has a landau roof and loaded including air bags, abs, etc. Great car because I told her this is not a 'racer'. I explained that 'this was a (near) luxury car of its day and wasn't designed to drive hard'. She drives it with respect and caution and its perfect for a 17 year old. You might laugh at that, but I am not buying my daughter a 'tuner' so she can kill herself. I realize I can't stop her from poor driving, and I don't think she would anyway..not her style, but I can certainly eliminate vehicles that could tempt her. So far, so good
please define 'professional driver' for me. i can think of a couple of different kinds.
In the case of the drivers ed school that I enrolled my son in, this is a person who has had training in how to drive cars under almost any conditions that you can think of. According to the schools literature, there "professional drivers" are the guys who taught police forces chase techniques and chauffeurs evasive techniques to protect their clients along with other advanced car handling techniques. No, students were not taught this stuff.
I guess this explains why they charged a pretty penny for their services.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My older daughter, who is now 20, had to be taken kicking and screaming to the DMV for her road test. She finally went when her mother and I explained that we were no longer going to be her chuffer service. Both of my daughters have turned out to be very good responsible drivers. Here in California 16 and 17 year olds must have a total of 50 hours (6 professional and 10 at night) behind the wheel before they can get their license. In fact, my insurance agent told me that on average the premium is now lower for a 16 or 17 year old than someone who waits until they're 18 to get their license.
mike....congrats on raising good drivers. From what I've noticed, there are huge differences in rates for a teen female driver over a teen male driver (females tend to be better drivers, although I'll debate my sisters all day long about that).
I don't know that there would have been a difference between my son's rates at 16 vs 18 as far as insurance is concerned. Maybe the "upcharge" on insurance for a first time driver at 18 has more to do with the fact that a 16 year old will, in all probability, still be living with their parents (and more supervision). Whereas, more 18 year olds will be living on their own, with no parental supervision.
In California a 16 or 17 year old must have drivers’ education and must wait six months after they get their learners permit before they can take the road test. During those six months they must have a minimum of 50 hours of driving practice. Further, during the first year that you have your license you cannot drive alone between 11PM and 5AM and you cannot have passengers under 20 unless you have a licensed driver 25 or older with you. Once you turn 18 all bets are off. You don’t need drivers Ed, 50 hours of practice, or even professional training and there are no restrictions after you get your license. Just go to the DMV, pass the written test and come back the next day and pass the road test. My insurance agent told me that the restrictions on 16 and 17 year olds statistically make them safer drivers so their rate is a little lower. BTW, I was told that girls no longer get the break in the premium over boys that they once did.
i feel like i'm on my 3rd generation of kids with my own. my wife has a large family. before we got married, her sister borrowed and whacked her car 2 or 3 times. a few years later, one of her brothers totalled her car and a passenger got hurt. the insurance company basically said how much coverage do you have? 300,000? ok, we'll take that. i pretty much have my eyes wide open when it comes to my kid(s) driving.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I read all the posts and there are some interesting opinions some of which I agree with and others that I question. Here's my situation. I have a 16y/o daughter who will be eligible to get her license in about 3 months. My wife and I take her out driving regularly. She is very responsible, careful, and dedicated to learning how to drive safely and effectively. She's learning on an automatic, but we have an early 90's manual Accord that we will have her learn to drive. I'm trying to decide whether to allow her to simply drive the Accord (with over 290K miles)once she's proficient and confident in its operation, or look to purchase a new vehicle with all the current safety features for her to drive (not hers to own!)which would also be a manual transmission. I'm a big believer that one experiences the car better with a manual and is more in tune with its strengths and limitations. I welcome all thoughts. I hope this kind of discussion will offer me some things that I have not considered in making this decision.
Well, it seems to me that the paramount concerns with a new driver are to become proficient behind the wheel and avoid accidents. IMHO, experiencing the car "better" ranks far down the list.
Having just gone through this (times 2), I think the fewer distractions the better for a newbie. While I understand the argument that one is more involved in driving with a stick, it is better to wait awhile if possible (especially if one starts learning with an automatic).
That said, newbies do crash cars and a full safety equipped vehicle can't be beat.
She has not expressed a preference yet b/c she has no experience with a manual. She understands and agrees with my desire for her to learn to drive a stick.
cccompson- Thanks for your thoughts; however, I'm not clear what you're considering to be "distractions". If by distraction you mean driving a stick, I would respectfully disagree. I think one must be considerably more focused on what one is doing (driving) in order to drive a stick well- and driving it well is the only way my daughter would be allowed to operate it. I believe that children (adults also)will meet the level of expectations if they are reasonable for their ability.
i don't recall exactly, but nothing financially catastrophic comes to mind. our agent switched us to another company. within about 3 years or so, we were back with the original company!
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
i would let her learn using the old accord. if the clutch suffers a bit, you haven't lost much. trust me, it's not fun observing that learning process with a newer car. see how it goes, then make a decision on a new car.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"Distraction" was probably the wrong word to use in describing the use of a stick. It's just another issue a newbie has to think about at a time when there are more important things to focus on.
Personally, I love a stick (and have a '91 MR2 so equipped), at least as long as I'm not stuck in stop and go traffic! When I bought it in the fall of '03 my son had been driving (basically only back and forth to school) for about a year and he had difficulty learning to handle it and didn't much like it. Two years later (when he next tried it), he had no trouble and loved it.
If by distraction you mean driving a stick, I would respectfully disagree.
When I got my permit my father needed service work performed on the family car (58’ Plymouth station wagon, automatic) so when he took the car in he asked for a loaner that had a stick. For a few days I learned to drive a stick if that’s what you could call it.
I didn’t like it at all. Too much to learn all at once if you don’t have to. After I had my license for about 6 months a friend ask me if I wanted to drive the used stick his family had just bought as a second car that was pretty much his when ever he wanted it. Having already known how to drive by then, all I really had to pay attention to was the shifting and I then had no problem driving a stick.
Having driven that car plenty of times I became pretty good at it but I only did it so I would know how in case anything ever happened but, to be honest, I never liked driving a stick.
If you want your daughter to learn how to drive a stick, give her a break and let her learn after she already has some hours under her belt with an automatic. I’m willing to bet it will work out better that way.
Give me an automatic any day. I’m just too lazy to enjoy all that shifting but I know several people who will only buy a stick.
To each his own.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Personally, I would rather have a teenager in a beater (where you are NOT paying collision and comprehensive insurance coverage on) than in investing big $$$ on a newer vehicle. In many cases, you will save a lot of money if you can get a policy whereby the beater is the only car in the household that the teen can drive. That is something that varies by insurance carrier.
I am beginning to think that driving a manual transmission will keep the driver from talking on a cell phone while driving but I could be sadly mistaken on that point ....
Cell phones! Now there's a distraction. Maybe having to have one hand on the wheel and the other on the stickshift is a very good thing.
One of the things that I was thinking about in terms of a new vehicle is that many of them have steering wheel controls for the radio and often the console is easily visible without taking eyes off the road too much. In our '92 Accord you have to look down considerably in locating a station. I know many of us (including myself) survived driving "beater" cars- maybe luck, maybe fate. But I wonder if I shouldn't try and increase the odds of survival for my daughter by investing in new/newer vehicle.
I heard that he had been answering a text message as he tried to turn a corner.
How many times do we have to hear of tragedies like this before it sinks in that you can never take your eyes off the road when you’re driving?
The very first thing I told my two sons about driving is what my father told me:
“Any time you look at anything other than the road, you’re looking for trouble and you’ll find it“.
I’ll never forget what happened one time when I was driving (still with my permit) with my father in the front passenger seat. He was talking to me and I turned my head to look at him. He said, “pull over here” as he pointed to a pull off spot on the right. He then asked, “why were you looking at me and not the road”? I said, “I only turned my head for a second or two” and he said, “that’s all the time it takes to have an accident. You don’t turn your head to listen to the radio so don’t turn your head to listen to me. Today’s lesson is over, we’ll try again tomorrow”. He then drove home and we tried it again the next day, only this time I kept my eyes on the road.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I've never taken my eyes off the road because I have. However, when I do it's only for very quick glances and then only when there is plenty of distance between me and the car in front of me and the road is straight.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have a 2005 camry that's halfway paid for. Wife has a 98 pathfinder in very good shape. However it's an XE (base trim) auto, 4FWD, no power doors or windows. 98000 miles worth maybe low 4's in trade. Thinking of getting dear wife an '07 RAV4 or CR-V. Problem is I have a 16 yr old who is about to get her license (and a job) and needs a vehicle. I want her to have something I can insure only for liability (keep ins. costs down) which means something with low book value. Rather than find her some problem-prone under-$5000 beater, I may let her use the 98 pathfinder. Good idea or bad? Thanks.
Comments
...a tree was stuck in the engine compartment.
After all that to come out unscathed except for sore knuckles, from holding on during that ride, you had the audacity to put a scratch on that boy when he got home (post108)?
You should be hanging your head in shame.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
parents need to instill on their children that when driving the cell stays in the pocket. no fiddling with an MP3. no driving friends from here to there. keep the radio off.
if they want to drive somewhere, they do so with mom and dad while they pick up hundreds of hours of necessary experience.
really, except in justifiable scenarios, the kids(and that is what they are at (16, 17, 18) shouldn't be in vehicles behind the steering wheel without mom or dad.
but if they "have" to be driving (?), then they need to be hyper cautious, extremely responsible, and they need much much much more experience than we are probably providing them.
It was hard enough just to keep my cars pointed in the right direction, let alone having to pay attention to a cell phone. I will admit I use a cell phone in my car now, but I use a bluetooth kit to talk on it while driving (love those).
It used to be people reading the newspaper, applying make-up, etc. while driving distracted. Now, it's texting, talking on the cell phone, and my personal bone headed favorite....distracted by that DVD playing in their screen while driving.
Everyday, I see someone driving while doing at least one of these "activities" while they're driving. I have to think to myself, if you want your kids to understand the danger of doing these things while you're on the road, then set a better example yourself!
It's an old cliche, but it all starts with the parents teaching the lesson.
Unfortunately, it's "do as I say not as I do" and when something goes wrong they're the first to say "I told him/her not to do that".
Now whose the kid? :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
One of the cars in my fleet was sideswiped TWICE by the same 16 year old girl. The first time, we let the parent pay for the damage without reporting it. The second time, we got the police involved.
The Chicago Tribune has been publishing a year long series about teen drivign accidents. Also, the AAA has produced a DVD for new teen drivers that I have heard is pretty good.
Personally, as I have said ten times at least, the vehicle for the teen driver is less important than the training of the teen driver who will be handling the vehicle.
Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Instead of worrying about which car little Johnny and Janey should get (and who should pay for it), let's teach them how to drive, first.
But having the kid have a popular CR-V or Rav-4 model helps the parent's image and how they appear to others. And of course if you buy a Mercedes or Lexus model for the youngun' that's even more impressive to other parents.
It is sometimes about parent's lack of self-esteem, IMHO, rather than what the kid needs, should have, could have, wants. I look at the cars being driven by the 130 plus members of the Marching Band who do drive, the cars were very practical and often are leftovers that were what parents had bought. There were few image cars, if any. But when I see the high school parking lot the mix of image cars goes up exponentially. There also are many beater cars in the lot, to be honest. But the personal image is deeply involved in the choice.
I'm glad someone mentioned a DVD from AAA. I'll check into a copy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i do think putting them in a SUV isn't the best choice and should be avoided if possible. i think a child needs to be shown the different driving dynamics of a SUV vs. non-SUV. for that matter, it's probably good for adults to know the difference. apparently, it's not just a matter of driving dynamics.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=366857
http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/suv-rollover-danger.htm
What drove me crazy as a teenager was that the car that my parents had was a huge 1965 Dodge station wagon ... and drivers training was in a smaller car.
Seriously, as the Chicago Tribune series highlighted, most teens get very limited driver's training usually in a less than optimal situation. It is necessary for the new driver to get MANY HOURS behind the wheel in a supervised situation. IOW, the teen driver should be driving his parents around a LOT before flying solo.
Pity my poor father who had to teach me to drive. Hour after hour of driving in the parking lots at Beechmont Mall, usually from 10 pm - midnight.
That would be considered capitol punishment in my estimation.
In addition to self-esteem, I think you can add ‘guilt’. Parents now feel they have to give their kids everything that all the other kids have to make up for the lack of attention they give theirs. After all, they love their kids just as much as the other parents love theirs, even if they can’t afford it. I know, this mentality always existed but not to the extent that we have today.
When we had the now almost extinct “stay at home mom”, the kids had a lot more attention given to them, received immediate discipline when needed and had a much better understanding of what a dollar was worth. Not to mention, they were pleased as punch if they even had a car (which was always used) when they were still in high school.
The thing that bothers me is when I have to share the road with these selfish brats of today. Way too many of them are predisposed with all the widgits that the cars now have rather than paying attention to the issue at hand.
I know I just made some very generalized statements because there are still some parents that do it right, just not enough, like the ones that are here discussing the kids of today and how they drive.
There I go again, showing my age.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Money isn't....a car isn't....neither are clothes, jewelry, cell phones, XBOXes, etc.
Maybe I'm the one who doesn't get it. Maybe parenting has passed me by. Maybe I should just be glad that myu parenting duties are almost finished (but, are they ever just finished....no matter what the age?).
Oh, .... you get it alright, it didn't pass you by.
Maybe I should just be glad that myu parenting duties are almost finished (but, are they ever just finished....no matter what the age?).
Surprise, as if you didn't know; as long as you have breath in you, parenting never ends.
My two sons have been out of the house for a while now with little ones of their own (in fact, we just found out about two hours ago that my youngest son and his wife are going to have another one, their second. I'm trying to scrape Mrs. jmonroe off the ceiling as we speak.) and whenever I see something that needs attention, I don't hesitate to let them know. You just have to pick you spots/words a little better.
After all, they are adults.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
IMHO, (which is the opinion of a 16 year old male, btw) one of the best ways to deter a teen from driving a vehicle like a moron is for them to buy said vehicle themselves. I covered the costs of my first car entirely, and even though it's 30 years old and could destroy anything in it's path, I couldn't be more careful when driving it. For many teens, buying a car is the first HUGE financial investment. $1000-$5000 may not sound like alot, but it's more than most of us younger people have ever seen made out to our names.
To go a step further, (it's what I did) you could have a teen pay for the car, and then place the financial onus on the parents when it comes to insurance. That'll learn 'em to be extra careful. (Learn the kids, that is...may have some effect on the parents, we're not sure yet. The study is still in progress)
I personally think the worst thing a parent could to do to prevent horrendous driving is to give a teen YOUR car! I know a few people who have vehicles given to them for the day, and believe me, they treat them like absolute garbage. And it's not that the vehicles deserve to be treated that way; these are not wrecks we're talking about. One that comes to mind is a high-dollar mercedes SUV a friend of mine is given. He drives the thing like it's a retired fork lift, save for the burn-outs at every stop sign. Good thing he has all the traction control goodies to keep him from plowing into someone's back yard.
There's another good point. We really do think we're invincible, duh. However, ABS, traction control and air bags that deploy out of the cup holders really help to reinforce that belief. This is where alot of respect for the road, the vehicle, and the occupants' safety are lost. My car has no ABS, not a cicuit board in sight, and hasn't even heard the word "air bag". Going down a local 12% gradient, with a 90 degree turn at the end while it's -20 outside and the road covered in snow and ice tends to demand that I respect the limits of my vehicle.
I'm not at all trying to preach "Don't buy SUVs with Traction Assist". Not at all. Besides, that subject is way beyond the scope of what I'm trying to get across. I'm meerly saying that new drivers really need to know the reality of thier safety, and that they aren't invincible behind the wheel. There is a fine line to walk here though, as having someone fear the road is counter-productive to what we're trying to accomplish here.
There is also the topic of driving schools, but it's a very menial one. Most 25-hour schools are 10h in-car, 15h in class. I mean really, I've fogotten almost everything I was taught in-class, and half my in-car lessons were "This lever selects gears"..."Watch your blind spots"..."BRAKE!!!".
Bottom line, really, is to let the reality sink in to the teen (which is what I've learned thus far):
-We really aren't indestructible (I know, it hurts...but we're not...let out a good cry if you must)
-Respect your vehicle. You'll never respect the route until you respect what's taking you through it.
-Try to enjoy what you're doing, no one's in a big hurry, and pay attention to the issue at hand. This is a privledge, remember?
AND, if all else fails, just let this last point hit home:
You're already paying more for insurance than you paid for the car(In most cases). One major accident and you may as well hang up the keys until your 25, that is, after all, when you're insurance premiums will drop slightly.
-Ryan
Well, really, there is no quintessential 'best' car for my generation.
I suppose something that's cheap, easy to maintain, safe and won't cause mom and dad to put a second mortgage on the house to pay for insurance.
Most importantly, a car that the teen is COMFORTABLE with!
Like, duh.
-Ryan
Sounds like you are a very responsible 16 year old. Congratulations. I can't imagine there are too many like you.
He drives the thing like it's a retired fork lift, save for the burn-outs at every stop sign. Good thing he has all the traction control goodies to keep him from plowing into someone's back yard.
I hope you don't have first hand knowledge of this, otherwise, I might have to rescind what I just said.
In any case keep up the good work.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
i know a few. they would rather have their parents drive them around.
Ryan77300d, you sound like a sensible person who will go far in the world. Glad to have you participating in our community!
in the winter it's warm, and in the summer it's cool when you go home after practice? :confuse:
I hope you don't have first hand experience...
haha, no, I wouldn't put the drivelines of my parents' cars through harsh burn outs just to woo some onlookers...wish I could say the same for others though...as for my car, burnout? Ha! It's got less than 80hp, best not to talk about that...
Anyways, on the subject of teen drivers who don't want to get thier license, I know a few, and I can't grasp why someone wouldn't want to exercise a new privledge they now have access to. In Canada, where I live, we have a G1, and then a G2. G1 means you can only drive with a parent (for 8 months) and then G2 (after 8 months and after passing an in-car exam) you're on your own. Alot of people I know don't even go for thier G1 because they hear the test is too difficult. More often than not, people just assume the tests are too hard for them to pass, and therfore just put it off.
That's how it is up here anyways, and there's always the universal "I don't care/am too lazy/am too tired" :P
-Ryan
I and everyone else I’m sure, agrees that you can’t have too much practice before driving on your own. It’s just that for years after you start to drive you’re still learning and perfecting your skills. You get better each time out and it just takes time.
This is as good a time/subject to finish the tale that I started in post 145.
Like I said in post 145 the very first time my oldest son took the car out he had an accident and I would never have given him the keys if I didn’t think he was ready. He spent countless hours behind the wheel before taking his test, to the point that he was down to the last week on his permit before I took him for his test.
In order to qualify for a discount on insurance he had to attend an accredited drivers training course, regardless of the number of hours he spent with me. So, we wanted to have him attend the best one we had heard about. However, because this drivers ed course was known to be one of the best, there was a waiting list and he couldn’t be enrolled until after his permit would have expired and he had taken the drivers examination test. I’m the one to blame here because I was unaware of the popularity of this course and didn’t look into it soon enough, which at the time had an almost 4 month waiting list.
He takes this course and passes the written exam with an almost perfect score which then allows him to be taken out for the required 10 hours behind the wheel. I know, 10 hours barely scratches the surface for what is needed to become even remotely proficient to take a drivers examination but that’s what the insurance companies required for a discount at the time (I have no idea what it is today).
After the last hour behind the wheel, as was the way this drivers ed course did it, the professional driving instructor would come into the house to discuss how the student performed and to let the parents know if more hours behind the wheel were necessary before they would sign-off that the student was qualified for the insurance discount.
Well, this driving professional looks me right in the eye and says, “It’s as plain as the nose on your face that you have spent a lot of hours teaching you son how to drive. He’s one of the best I’ve had in a long time. You won’t have any problems with this kid. You should be very proud of him”.
No, he didn’t know about his accident on his very first time out. I didn’t feel he had to know because I wanted to hear what he was going to say after the last hour of drivers training and I didn’t want to bias his professional opinion. I’ll never forget how emphatic he was with his words of praise and encouragement.
So much for what a “professional driver” knows about how a teenager will handle themselves!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
connecticut has a graduated licence, too.
for the 1st 3 months, only adults as passengers, next 3 only adults or family members that are not adults, after that, anyone.
i don't know where in canada you are, but i have driven through ontario from ny to michigan many times.
Now I agree with the many of you who believe that a teenager should earn all automobile privaledges. However, my scenario is quite probably the exact opposite. You might think im spoiled, tho i wouldn't think of it to be like that.
My parents gave me the car and I was not held responsible for gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. Both my parents worked full-time jobs and realized this would be a chance for them to unburden themselves by letting me drive myself around.
Now at this point I bet ya'll are thinking i must've trashed it ... thankfully that hasn't been the case. I have never received a ticket, never been in any sort of accident and have never been pulled over by the police. The car looks & runs identical to the day my father gave it to me, especially the interior. Everytime a new friend enters the car they surpised to the showroom condition of the vehicle.
Now we get to the my point ... what could this proper driving behavior be attributed to? I didn't work or have any "skin", as its been called, into this vehicle. So what is it?
My explanation has to do with, what i believed to be, my early comprehension and respect for the value of money. From a young age I watched my parents work very hard, and at the same time we lived EXTREMELY modestly. Not having a ton of flashy things [electronics, high end cars, for ex.] around me growing up didn't "train" me to demand expensive items. For example, I wanted a car but never demanded one. It was my dad who offered me the car, I figured he would have simply traded it in [the 98regal] for his next ride.
Instead, I was bestowed the priveledge of a car. How could I repay them for such a generous action? My answer was TO NOT SCREW ANYTHING UP. I realized that I wasn't paying anything, the LEAST I could do was act like an adult and treat the car knowing that any misbehaviour would result in a removed license. Why would I act in such a good way, one word, PARENTING.
Honestly, I think this is what it all boils down too. Parents should give whatever car they deem safe for their kids. Mine had ABS, traction control, front airbags and have served me well. However, how a teenager will react to a car will only be decided how good a job the parent has done in teaching respect for hard work and other people. I respected my parents by driving as cautiously as possible, always calling [in highschool] when I planned on using the car and who would be driving with me. I knew what my consequences would be for misbehavior or even worse, an auto-accident.
Even with this spotless record, I dont consider myself that mature since I knew of kids that worked in high school to pay for their car. Kids who can work for their car while balancing school are the maturest of the bunch. In my case, my parents wanted me to specifically focus on school, since a side job could be detrimental towards my grades. Well, all my focus has paid off and im in my final semester as a civil-engineering undergrad ready to go for my masters.
Sorry for a lengthy post, but I just wanted to demonstrate my example of a grateful teenager obeying the rules of the road who DIDNT have to pay anything.
On a side note: I can totally see how kids can demand cars or high-end cars if thats all they are surrounded by or dont know better. In that case, parents need to clamp down and introduce them to an attitude adjustment. I know plenty of this cuz in the town i live in, literally every family participates in the -getting-a-kid-a-beemer-for-16th-bday- tradition. I just laugh when i see it happen, you won't get very far in life if you feel you are owed things by people. Like one forum member posted somewhere, if you want something, you have to get it yourself.
If a professional driver went out of his way to praise a teenager's driving I'd likely conclude that even the best of drivers have accidents. The best we can do is minimize risk but Murphy's Law still applies.
tidester, host
Ryan....you sound like you've "got it together". Good for you.
As far as cars for a teenage driver....I know teens kind of lean towards the Civics and Corollas. Nothing wrong with either of those. They're bulletproof. They are good on gas.
I'm partial to the mid '00s Hyundais since my son has had such a good experience with his Elantra. They're cheap to buy and cheap to keep. He knows resale value will be poor, but by his reckoning, it won't matter. He'll drive it until the wheels fall off, Which, by the looks of things, could take a very long time.
Personally, I like the American iron...like Buicks and Fords. They've been made for awhile. Have proven reliable. And, the recent versions (about 5 years old) have up-to-date safety features (airbags, anti-lock).
Put a good set of snow tires on a Crown Vic and you're good to go.
That's what I drive ... 0-60 in five minutes.
In the case of the drivers ed school that I enrolled my son in, this is a person who has had training in how to drive cars under almost any conditions that you can think of. According to the schools literature, there "professional drivers" are the guys who taught police forces chase techniques and chauffeurs evasive techniques to protect their clients along with other advanced car handling techniques. No, students were not taught this stuff.
I guess this explains why they charged a pretty penny for their services.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't know that there would have been a difference between my son's rates at 16 vs 18 as far as insurance is concerned. Maybe the "upcharge" on insurance for a first time driver at 18 has more to do with the fact that a 16 year old will, in all probability, still be living with their parents (and more supervision). Whereas, more 18 year olds will be living on their own, with no parental supervision.
i pretty much have my eyes wide open when it comes to my kid(s) driving.
I hate to ask (it must still be painful), but how many years did it take to work off the increased insurance rates after that hit? :sick:
Good lesson to pass onto your kids.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I read all the posts and there are some interesting opinions some of which I agree with and others that I question. Here's my situation. I have a 16y/o daughter who will be eligible to get her license in about 3 months. My wife and I take her out driving regularly. She is very responsible, careful, and dedicated to learning how to drive safely and effectively. She's learning on an automatic, but we have an early 90's manual Accord that we will have her learn to drive. I'm trying to decide whether to allow her to simply drive the Accord (with over 290K miles)once she's proficient and confident in its operation, or look to purchase a new vehicle with all the current safety features for her to drive (not hers to own!)which would also be a manual transmission. I'm a big believer that one experiences the car better with a manual and is more in tune with its strengths and limitations. I welcome all thoughts. I hope this kind of discussion will offer me some things that I have not considered in making this decision.
Regarding automatic versus manual, has your daughter expressed a preference?
tidester, host
Having just gone through this (times 2), I think the fewer distractions the better for a newbie. While I understand the argument that one is more involved in driving with a stick, it is better to wait awhile if possible (especially if one starts learning with an automatic).
That said, newbies do crash cars and a full safety equipped vehicle can't be beat.
our agent switched us to another company. within about 3 years or so, we were back with the original company!
Personally, I love a stick (and have a '91 MR2 so equipped), at least as long as I'm not stuck in stop and go traffic! When I bought it in the fall of '03 my son had been driving (basically only back and forth to school) for about a year and he had difficulty learning to handle it and didn't much like it. Two years later (when he next tried it), he had no trouble and loved it.
When I got my permit my father needed service work performed on the family car (58’ Plymouth station wagon, automatic) so when he took the car in he asked for a loaner that had a stick. For a few days I learned to drive a stick if that’s what you could call it.
I didn’t like it at all. Too much to learn all at once if you don’t have to. After I had my license for about 6 months a friend ask me if I wanted to drive the used stick his family had just bought as a second car that was pretty much his when ever he wanted it. Having already known how to drive by then, all I really had to pay attention to was the shifting and I then had no problem driving a stick.
Having driven that car plenty of times I became pretty good at it but I only did it so I would know how in case anything ever happened but, to be honest, I never liked driving a stick.
If you want your daughter to learn how to drive a stick, give her a break and let her learn after she already has some hours under her belt with an automatic. I’m willing to bet it will work out better that way.
Give me an automatic any day. I’m just too lazy to enjoy all that shifting but I know several people who will only buy a stick.
To each his own.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am beginning to think that driving a manual transmission will keep the driver from talking on a cell phone while driving but I could be sadly mistaken on that point ....
One of the things that I was thinking about in terms of a new vehicle is that many of them have steering wheel controls for the radio and often the console is easily visible without taking eyes off the road too much. In our '92 Accord you have to look down considerably in locating a station. I know many of us (including myself) survived driving "beater" cars- maybe luck, maybe fate. But I wonder if I shouldn't try and increase the odds of survival for my daughter by investing in new/newer vehicle.
A few weeks ago a teenager ran his SUV off the road near Leesburg VA. Both he and his younger sister died in the accident.
I heard that he had been answering a text message as he tried to turn a corner.
How many times do we have to hear of tragedies like this before it sinks in that you can never take your eyes off the road when you’re driving?
The very first thing I told my two sons about driving is what my father told me:
“Any time you look at anything other than the road, you’re looking for trouble and you’ll find it“.
I’ll never forget what happened one time when I was driving (still with my permit) with my father in the front passenger seat. He was talking to me and I turned my head to look at him. He said, “pull over here” as he pointed to a pull off spot on the right. He then asked, “why were you looking at me and not the road”? I said, “I only turned my head for a second or two” and he said, “that’s all the time it takes to have an accident. You don’t turn your head to listen to the radio so don’t turn your head to listen to me. Today’s lesson is over, we’ll try again tomorrow”. He then drove home and we tried it again the next day, only this time I kept my eyes on the road.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I've never taken my eyes off the road because I have. However, when I do it's only for very quick glances and then only when there is plenty of distance between me and the car in front of me and the road is straight.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl