2008 Pontiac G8

rockylee

I'd really consider buying a HSV G8 if they'd leave the Holden body work intact because it looks nice. I of course would want a LS-7 version of it

I right now am leaning torwards a 07' GMC Sierra Denali Pick-up. I'm going to look further into the Denali this next month. If I don't go that route the HSV G8 and 08' CTS, 09' CTS-V will still be on my radar.

Rocky

rockylee

Holdenguy go to this website:

2011 Buick Lucerne

We are talking about Holdens and you might be of help.

holdenguy

http://www.speedywheels.com.au/showroom.htm

Check out the silver VE.
Nice.

holdenguy

http://www.nmd.com.au/news2/news_detail.cfm?ID=6186

VE in race kit.

holdenguy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiLTRBpcw7E

Good video of Mark Skaife as he takes you around
the track at Bathurst in a VZ Commodore, last
years model.
Enjoy.

rockylee

But will the VE out run those German Bimmers ? :surprise:

Rocky

creamcitian

Vauxhall VXR8

They're gonna get the 414hp version of the Commodore. Sometimes life just ain't fair...

rockylee

We are getting that engine for the GTP and the GXP will have a 7.0 LS-7 good for 502 hp. here in the states.

Rocky

holdenguy

Geez, those bloody Poms!
Clarkson will getting all excited about giving it a flogging around the track, lol.
Seriously, it straight out of the HSV factory.
The only differance between the HSV and what you guys are getting is the exhaust.
HSV has headers and big bore system to get it up to 307 kw.

holdenguy

Which German Bummer are you talking about?

1487

The new MT has a review of the Commodore and they were very impressed. The only criticisms they had were the 19s sacrificed ride quality and the interior wasnt much better than GM products here in the states.

rayainsw

Upon reflection:

I test drove 3 different M45s – each the Sport model – before settling on my Corvette last Fall.
I decided to spend a little time looking at how the G8 would seem ( based on preliminary information ) to stack up on specifications, since I was quite impressed with many dynamic aspects of the M.

I hereby acknowledge that the M45, at just over $50K for the Sport model, is not a direct competitor to the G8 GT \ V8. So, there. But anyway:

Weight appears similar – The M45 is just over 4,000.
And it did handle reasonably well, as far as I could tell in my test drives.
( I never really push for anything like maximum cornering speeds on a test drive. )
The M45 Sport rides on 245/40x19s – where the G8 looks like it will have exactly the same sized rubber.
And the G8’s near equal F\R weight distribution is clearly a positive.
And specifying an LSD is a “good thing”.

The 5 speed manumatic trans. in the M45 is one reason that I decided against the M. The trans. behavior was actually OK. But. I happen to have a ( not very rational, but very strong ) preference for low RPM at cruising speeds. My Corvette shows just over 1,500 RPM at 70. The M is geared for 2,300 RPM at 60 ( and close to 2,700 at 70 ) and I simply find that engine speed “too high” – for me. Not that the motor will not happily turn those RPM – and Infiniti seems confident that the motor will last. At least for the duration of their warrantee period: 6 years \ 70,000 miles, as I recall.

GM, obviously, will be warranting their drivetrain for 5 \ 100,000.

Partly due to this gearing, the M45’s EPA highway MPG rating ( 23, for 2007 ) is not particularly impressive. I wonder what the G8 will post. ( Under the new 2008 testing procedures. ) And I wonder if the M45 will ( finally ) offer a six speed automatic by MY 2008. I’ll predict that with the M45 at 17 \ 23 now and expected to be at 16 \ 21 for 2008 ( according to EPA estimates ) the G8 GT \ V8 with automatic trans. will post something like 17 \ 23 for MY 2008. ( 2 MPG better than the prediction for M45 – and 2 less than the predicted 2008 ratings for the Corvette with automatic, assuming the same drivetrain. ) Perhaps, with AFM, the G8 will actually achieve a higher highway number?

One big contributing factor to the M45’s acceleration ( satisfying, for a fairly large 4-door sedan, typically posting high – or even mid-13s at something over 100 ) is the relatively aggressive gearing. And gearing that requires no 2-3 shift before completing the 0-60 run, and no 3-4 shift before the end of the quarter mile.

The HP \ TQ ratings for the M45’s V8 are: 335 \ 340. ( Premium )
The G8 is 362 \ 391. ( Regular )
With a bit less weight, but also with substantially less aggressive final drive gearing, I wonder what the actual, independent test numbers for the G8 will finally be. The 6L80 does provide a reasonable overall first gear ratio ( 2.92 final times 4.03 first gear = 11.76 to 1 ) but the M45 overall is 12.87 to 1. Hmm. And second for the M is 2.37 and 7.96 overall – vs the G8’s second gear of 2.36, but 6.89.

My guess, based on all this ( certainly does not qualify as real ‘analysis’ ) is that the G8 GT \ V8 with automatic will end up posting very similar numbers to the M45 for 0-60 & the quarter mile.

And much lower RPM at cruise than the M.

Speaking of ‘finally’, it sure seems odd to me that GM has released such specific information close to a year before the expected North American launch of the G8. 2 or 3 months seems like a timeframe that would allow a continuation of interest until the cars actually appear & are available for a test drive. 10 or 11 months? Again, seems rather odd, to me.

By then, I suspect that many people will have forgotten all about the G8.

Anyway, I am completely ignoring any comparison of interior fit & finish, materials, ride quality, etc. here – as no production version exists for anyone outside GM to test.

I am hoping the best for the G8 – notwithstanding my earlier comments about my surprise at the projected weight - and I do expect that I will test drive one at some point.

If the G8 can produce similar driving dynamics, at a price closer to mid-$30s than $50K, I will be impressed. And a GT \ V8 may make my short list next time around.

- Ray
Still interested . . .

= = =

Gearing.
M45:
Final drive: 3.36:1
Top gear ( fifth ): 0.83
G8:
Final drive ( A6 ): 2.92
Top gear ( sixth ): 0.67
[ fifth = 0.85 ]

Length.
M45: 192.6
G8: 196.1

Wheelbase.
M45: 114.2
G8: 114.8

Width.
M45: 70.8
G8: 74.8

rockylee

BMW 3/5 series

Rocky

subearu

wondering if the NY show brings us any new information or pics...

-Brian

rayainsw

I'm going with my Daughter this weekend.
I doubt there will be anything new - but if there is, I will report here....
- Ray
Hoping if the only G8 is the (apparently) 1 & only 'prototype' Show Car, it will not be on a turntable & guarded ( ? ) by a 'spokesmodel'...

socalkid

When you go to the auto show please tell me they've done away with those terrible hood scoops on the G8. I can live with the Pontiac Grill but the hoods scoops don't fit in anywhere! Is there any chance Pontiac will lose them when the car hits the dealerships this summer???

paisan

It's not coming til next spring from what I hear.

Saw the car at the NYIAS, looked good, except for the scoops and of course the nice brakes, rims, and rotors won't be on it in the end.

-mike

elias

i second that emotion - to omit the faux hood scoops like GTO has. i liked the 2004 smooth GTO hood, and the late model camaro smooth hoods. fake scoops are just silly.
if they are just vents, it's dumb to make them appear to be scoops. ok, just a little peeve of mine, one of the two things i don't like about my GTO. ok, 3 things. the other two are the spoiler and the lack of cylinder-shutdown for my long highway cruises.

brz71

There was an AWD Monaro but it was exclusive to HSV. I dont think they sold many. It didn't look quite right because of the add on guard flares required due to the extra track width.

holdenguy

Yes, that is correct re; Monaro.
But what point are you trying to make?
The new VE Commodore has the steering way forward
of the engine.
There will not be an AWD version of this car.
How many times do I have to tell you guys this?
Bit of news in the pipeline is this,
They are considering putting some new diesel engine
in the Commodore.
I know the US is not much into diesel, but Europe is.
Opel have said that they want the Commodore.
The head honcho there came out here and took a few Commodores for a flogging, he loved it.
This diesel is 3 litres and puts out a massive 178kw.
It has well over 500n/m of torque.
More than the 6 litre V8.
Also, your G8 is already going down the assembly line.
As is the Poms Vauxall VXR8,(HSV R8).
I still can't get over the fact that the Poms are getting
HSV's cheaper for what we can get them here.
Clarkson and The Stig will be cracking a fat driving this car around the old airport track!

elias

i would be *very* interested in a USA diesel G8, especially if it were available with a stickshift. i won't hold my breath!

holdenguy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKz3pJJPvg&mode=related&search=

Here you go mate, a bit of a treat for you.
A V8 turbo AWD HSV Coupe on the dyno.
Enjoy ;-)

paisan

There will not be an AWD version of this car.

Wonder why not, they would be smart to put an AWD setup as an option in the RWD USDM cars, people here don't know how to drive, especially in the snow and rain.

-mike

holdenguy

Yes, I guess it would be good to have AWD,
but the engine is far back in the bay and the front axle
and steering assembly are very forward.
Thanks for your reply Mike.

paisan

Hmm, perhaps they could use the AWD trans they are using in the Caddy STS or something similar to what is being used in the BMWs, probably would have to wait for the next generation though.

-mike

holdenguy

I didn't know that BMW has AWD cars?
Only have X3 and X5 here.

paisan

Yup both 3 series and 5 series cars come with AWD these days. Oh and of course the 4-matic MB vehicles also have AWD as well.

-mike

bumpy

I would imagine that an AWD version could be made if GM decided it were really necessary. It would require new transmissions, front suspension, and some others bits, so if the VE wasn't designed AWD-capable from the outset it's probably too complicated to get done at a low enough cost.

holdenguy

Agree with you there bumpy,
Interesting about these AWD Bimmer sedans.
I'll have to look into that a bit harder.
Don't know why we don't get them here.

elias

i prefer my overpowered GM vehicles to have 100% rear-wheel-drive, thank you. i've never driven an AWD car that handled as nicely as RWD, but maybe i'm just not accustomed enough to AWD - probably never will be.
One reason I don't want AWD in a G8 is that I'll always have "winter car" that is properly shod for winter conditions, so I'd keep a G8 garaged in such conditions just as I do my GTO-naro.
btw, i don't think GM will spend the time/$ to crash-test/homologate an AWD version of a vehicle that is probably going to be fairly low-volume.

paisan

True, but what's the point in making it if it's only going to be low volume? I think that they need a volume car to make some $$$.

Unfortunately not everyone is as fortunate as you and I to have several cars.

As for handling, AWD out handles RWD at least in my experience on the road race course. Can't vouche for drag strip or other venues.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

holdenguy

This will make you all, especially Rocky, sick in the guts.
Those bloody Poms are not only getting the HSV R8, it also comes there with a supercharger option!
Boosts power up to 540bhp.
I cannot believe this, we do not have that option here and the price for them starts at 35,000 pounds.
It is cheaper to buy in Britain than it is to buy them in the Country of origin. HSV here are selling that Turbo Astra hatch here that the Poms developed, so maybe a bit of dealing got done between the two GM sisters.
The link below is the 1st look at the HSV on Top Gear.
They don't drive it yet, just talk about it.
It is at 3 minutes 35 secs into the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnSjyVRr7Q&NR=1

rayainsw

So – I was thinking this weekend about a test drive I took some 18 months ago. I was looking quite seriously at a supercharged & inter-cooled Jaguar S-Type R.

OK – First: I am NOT suggesting that the G8 will compete directly with a $60K+ Jag S-Type R.

I do find some statistical comparisons very interesting – since before I decided on ordering my 2007 Corvette, I took an S-Type R for a 36 hour test drive, at the insistence of my local Dealer’s Sales Manager. ( Oh, please, don’t throw me in that briar patch. ) And I was rather impressed.

The S-Type R, for those not familiar with this Jag, is a 4DR sedan, has Approx. 400 HP & TQ, driving the rear wheels through a six speed automatic trans. ( ZF )
Jag Wheelbase = 114.5 in. ( G8 = 114.8 )
Jag Overall Length = 193.1 in ( G8 = 196.1 )
Jag Width = 81.1 ( G8 = 74.8 )

And the Jag weighs
( short drum roll )
just over 4,000 lbs.

Hmmmmm.

So – I re-read the several posts I wrote immediately after that extended test drive.
( The sales manager & I ended up about $3K apart on a negotiated price = “no deal” - sigh. )

Anyway, the dynamics of that 4,000# Jag sedan were surprisingly well managed. The eCATS suspension system likely had much to do with that, though the Holden \ G8 reports I have read so far suggest that Holden has produced a well sorted chassis as well – though clearly not as complex, or expensive as the Jag’s. The Jag’s weight distribution I believe to be approx. 52\48. Not bad. And the G8’s quoted numbers are similar, as I recall.

Now the 3.0L V6 version of the Jag lists for just under $50K. So again, this is clearly NOT a direct G8 competitor – nor a fair comparison. But in this context, any number in the mid-$30Ks for a well equipped G8 V8 begins to sound very attractive & rather aggressive. Depending on many things – not least the actual quality ( fit & finish & materials & ergonomics & sound isolation, etc. ) of the final, production interior – as well as the chassis & drivetrain dynamics. . . the G8 ‘could’ prove quite a bargain.

And if ( ** IF ** ) the recent rumor of an actual October introduction prove accurate, I’d expect ‘long lead’ press introductions in June or July – and published tests of production G8s to appear in September.

We do live in ‘interesting times’ . . .
At least I find it interesting.
- Ray
Still very interested to see what the G8 V8 dynamics will be, as well as interior & exterior fit, finish, etc. . . .

holdenguy

These are direct quotes from "Wheels" magazine here in Aus with regard to interior & exterior fit.

"The interior is designed to hide fit and finish issues that traditionally you'd be able to see," explains Holden design director Tony Stolfo. "Things like chamfer design-it's part of the aesthetics, but also hides the visual gap between the pad and the glovebox."

Some words below about the exterior.
When American Denny Mooney replaced German Peter Hanenberger as Holden boss, he came determined to focus on the perceived quality of the VE.
"We tore up the car two-and-a-half years ago," Tony Stolfo says. "We threw out millions of dollars of tooling to get the gaps down on the car from 3.5 millimetres to 3.2, from 3.2 down to 3.0. We wanted it to be the best in the world, in terms of achieving the perceptual quality."

I hope this helps a little rayainsw.

holdenguy

Maybe Rocky could have his wish come true.
Surely you could order one through your Pontiac Dealer.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21433649-5012441,00.html

holdenguy

Coming soon in a Caddy.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21392627-5012441,00.html

elias

Holden is awesome. The fit/finish on my GTO-naro is incredible - reminds me of a previous car: 2000 Benz E320. Those who have been in the car say "wow, this is an american car?".
And the car is rock-solid-reliable. Mightily impressive, and absurdly fast.

holdenguy

SS Commodore takes on the 300C and Falcon GT.

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2279205.aspx

holdenguy

Article on the VE SS Commodore with some nice pics as well.
The photo that shows close up of speedo etc shows the menu list of the trip computer etc.
It works exactly the same way a nokia phone works.
Enjoy :-)

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2271243.aspx

holdenguy

This one's for you Rocky,
Your dream wheels mate!

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2298050.aspx

rockylee

Well mate, that car is bloody fast. I heard a 7.0 LS-7 will be a option. It also has Delphi adjustable Magnetic Ride Control which is a slick feature. If it had the "gadgets" like a 5.1 Surround Sound System I'd might buy one. I like the Holden, styling better than the Pontiac grill though.

Rocky

holdenguy

7.0 LS-7 option, Where did you hear that?
Most likely a blower option on the 6.0.

rockylee

Read that from Motor Trend about 6 months ago. You know how they get inside info. They said a limited edition model with HSV, performance upgrades could be made with a 7.0 502 hp. V8

Rocky

holdenguy

I went and had a look at that Motor Trend site, interesting.....
I heard Angus Mackenzie went to the States but forgot what for.
He was "Wheels" editor here for years.
With him pushing public interest in Aussie cars, you may end up getting what you want,ie; Stateies and HSV's.
Do you go to the site, LS1.com.au ?
You may like it there Rocky.

paisan

They have actually announced the demise of the RWD platforms for GM. Other than the Camaro and G8 we likely won't get anything from em.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

perna

I have a couple years until the Maxima is set for retirement, but the G8 is nearly the perfect car for me.

I say "nearly", because I live in Michigan, and we get a decent amount of ice/snow. I see the G8 comes with traction control, but I'm not sure that would help. I don't really want to drive around with 100 lbs. of sand in my trunk either..

If GM is serious about taking on BMW with this car, they need an AWD version.

subearu

I'm a big fan of AWD too, but I'd certainly consider a G8 GT with a good set of snow tires here in SE Wisconsin - if the price is right.

-Brian

rockylee

It's only on pause at the momment Mike.

Rocky

hammen2

Lutz's comments about putting RWD on hold is posturing, plain and simple. The Oshawa, Ontario, factory where the Camaro will be built was to also support a Chevy sedan (Impala or Caprice), possibly something for Pontiac, and Buick and Caddy models (to replace the Lucerne and DTS, respectively). I don't think there would be enough Camaro production alone to keep the plant running, so GM's challenge is to come up with something else to build there (though C-Flex could allow FWD and RWD cars to be built on the same line).

The G8 GXP will NOT be getting the LS7 as that motor a) is hand-built and b) will be going away soon (replaced by something more powerful in the next Z06/Z07; the "Blue Devil" Vette a/k/a ZR-1 will be even more powerful). Expect a 430hp LS3 underhood of any G8 GXP...

hammen2

Ask those who drive RWD vehicles like the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, Lexus IS350 or Caddy CTS. RWD vehicles equipped with a) stability control and b) snow tires will handle snow about as well as larger FWD cars with all-seasons.

I live in SE Wisconsin as well and will have no qualms about buying a G8 in 2009 when my GTO is paid for. Then again, our winters haven't exactly been like those when I was growing up (especially 1977-1979... IIRC we had 14 snow days that latter winter)...

--Robert