Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
I have looked back through your problems to refresh my memeory. While I think it was entirely reasonable for you to want a new engine, I also think that GM/Cadillac was being quite reasonable in wanting to tear your old engine down to see what the problem was first. Based on your (possibly biased) posts, I do not see how your old engine could have been repaired since they were unable to determine exactly what the problem was.
My 2007 SRX northstar uses synthetic oil too, so I am aware of the cost (mostly because I used synthetic in my 2002 Seville).
Perhaps I should point out that just replacing the engine without determining the problem would allow a problem with the manufacturing process to continue. This is what happen with the 4100 engine Cadillac started using in 1982. There were engine failures on about 25% of the engines. It took GM/Cadillac a number of years to resolve the problem, perhaps because they just replaced engines. The problem was a subtle design flaw that only occurred in engines with parts that were at the extreme limits of the "standard size" (I assume you understand the "Standard of the World" Dewar Trophy award).
But I am 100% opposed to GM doing that diagnosis on ** MY ** time. Tear it down in a manufacturing facility where the engineering expertise exists – NOT in my local dealer’s service area.
If GM really did know what the problem was – due to analysis of previous failures, repair might have been an option. Not in the case, as presented here.
IMHO.
- Ray
Also had the trans. in my current GM vehicle repaired - successfully – not replaced . . .
I am not a Cadillac rep. I worked at an engineering college as a research scientist for 30 years before retiring. I understand that you were upset that you had a bad engine. I think that you dealership did what they should have done to fix the engine. If the problem had been nothing more than a bad head gasket, the engine would have been just as good a new, or if seriously damaged, it would not have made it through the rest of the warranty period. So you really would not have risked much either way.
Based on what you posed back in January, I think there was a problem with an alloy casting, which means either the alloy was a bad batch or the mold may have been contaminated. If the alloy was bad, then there should have been more than one bad engine, but if your engine was cast in a contaminated mold, then it may have been the only one.
If I understand you post above, you say that you had to pay for the rental car. When I have gotten a rental car as a result of warranty work, GM has paid for them. I have generally not owned Cadillacs, though, mostly Buicks. Perhaps Buick has been much nicer to me. In any case, if you had to pay for the rental cars while your CTS was in the shop, that is poor service. Your warranty is supposed to cover rental cars in cases where it takes days to repair something.
I should point out that the seals were not a GM mistake. The supplier substituded a cheaper seal without asking GM first. This affected 2005 - 2007 CTS, STS and SRX axles. Perhaps even early 2008 models, not sure.
I would point out than and engine that needs to torn apart when it is new really isn't what it should have been to start with, so to say that it isn't the same seem like a dumb comment to me. However, engines that are rebuilt (or overhauled) generally have been in use long enough to have considerable wear. A proper job of rebuilding should result in an engine that will run for some period of time, but it probably will not be like a new engine.
My 2002 Seville had a solenoid fail (TCC) and this required a full day to replace. While they were getting the parts I was still driving the car. When I got the car back, on a Friday, it seemed OK, but before I got home the transmission seemed to shift hard once. Over the weekend I drove it a little more and the transmission did not seem right to me. So, on Monday I called and brought it in. The tech talked to me, then took the car and checked it out while I waited. After a while the service manager came and said they had put the wrong gasket in. They got me a rental immeadiately, as my car was best left sitting and it would take a few days to get the parts and replace them. I was concerned about whether the transmission was damaged and asked point blank. They said no, but I also knew that I still had enough warranty left that problems should eventually show up. Replacing a northstar transmission is not cheap either. I think that this is similar to your situation.
AP
As for you saying my comment about an engine that has been torn apart never being the same dumb. I believe you are so dumb that you can't reasonably read what I wrote. Any engine that is torn apart and reassembled by the dealership will never be the same as it was when factory new. A dealership does not have the capability of keeping the components as clean as the factory assembly shop. Small particles of dirt, gasket material, etc. will be left behind to make th engine wear prematurely. That is as clear as I can put it to you.
The trip back was not as nice, no fault of Cadillac. I managed to hit a piece of road debris just past Baker and destroyed the rear left tire. The OnStar people got a tow truck to us in about 35 minutes to change to the spare. We sat in 104 degree weather with the engine and the A/C going and the engine temperature gauge never moved. A CHP officer arrived, risked his life to get the debris (a piece of white metal about 3 ft. square) out of the road, and then parked behind me to protect my car until the tow truck guy finished changing the tire. The I had to drive two hundred miles home at 55 mph with my flashers blinking all the way, thanks to cruise control. Quite an experience.
All in all I have to say the CTS is a great car and I am very pleased with it.
Glad you are OK!
- Ray
Sorry remote start is not in the Corvette I now drive...
It took the dealer about 2.5 hours to replace the seals. It would have taken two hours to get a rental vehicle and return it. It would have made some sense to use the dealers shuttle service to go somewhere and have them bring me back, however, I did not need to be anywhere, so I felt waiting made the most sense. I had a book to read, which is what I would have done if I had gone home.
I certainly think that if your car is in for warranty repairs/recalls/etc and you need a car, then you should have one. But, I think that if it makes sense to use the dealers shuttle service, then for repairs that take a few hours I see no reason for Cadillac to pay for a rental, but this is something for your dealer to decide on a case by case basis.
I will point out that small particles of dirt do get through the air filter. Also, I doubt that engines are assembled in clean rooms. While I see your point that the dealer's service department may reassemble the engine with a few bits of stuff that might not have been in a factory job, the oil filter should filter that out quickly, so that wear is not an issue.
"Your dealer may arrange to provide you with a courtesy rental vehicle or reimburse you for a rental vehicle that you obtain if your vehicle is kept for a warranty repair. ..."
It goes on to say that there is a limit to the daily rate that will be accepted for reimbursement.
They keep a number of CTS's to use as loaners. They use the cars for about three months and then sell them with full warranties. They also have an Enterprise rental unit next door which they use when all of their own cars are out.
If I prefer I can use their shuttle instead of taking a loaner.
A oil filter may filter out the particles, but what about the larger particles such as carbon, gasket pieces, and other foreign material that may be too large to pass through openings and even get to the oil filter. I know you will say that the mechanic should see to it that this doesn't happen, but I have worked around engines and equipment all my life and I can assure you that it does. I can guarantee you that the engines are assembled in a much cleaner environment than the dealership.
Perhaps the seals weren't GM's mistake, but quality control should have caught them. This is my last post in reply to anything you say. If you aren't going to read the posts carefully enough to intelligently comment on them, I am through.
Thanks for your future cooperation.
"Extra Expenses
Economic loss or extra expense is not covered.
Examples include:
loss of vehicle use
inconvenience
storage
payment for loss of time or pay
vehicle rental expense
lodging, meals or other travel costs"
A mechanic that has been trained should be able to tear down and engine and rebuild it without getting dirt in it. Not everyone is incompetent.
I will agree that GM should have figured out the seals sooner, but my understanding is that they used the rate of failure as the trigger to look at them.
On any GM vehicle that is under going warranty repairs that take longer than a day, I think that a rental vehicle is covered. For less than a day, a shuttle is probably going to be the dealers first choice.
I have a 2006 CYS with a sunroof that had to be returned 3 times for leaks or air coming through when cl;osed. The problem has finally been resolved. I hope that your dealership can work with you in resolving the problem
Xypher
I've seen a few NEW '06-07 models on the dealers lot with no sticker whatsoever, only a "clearance sale" tag on them (I saw 3 STS, 3 SRX, and 1 CTS). So is it save to assume that STS and SRX in particular are weak sellers, thus I can expect huge bargains on them?
I'm personally not a domestic brand fan, but cadillac is the best looking domestic car imo and I'm willing to reconsider if the price is that great.
As far as what sels and what doesn't, here in the South West the SRX is very popular as is the DTS because they have the best fuel efficiency in there respective class. The CTS of course is the one getting all the press so sales are steady. The STS is more of a hidden gem since it doesnt get the press it has better lease and finance rates ( except during this sale period). The Escalade you would think is not a big seller but according to a recent article I read sales may exceed last year. Lets face it large families need a big SUV and the Escalade is still the best in class.
As far as gas prices efficency and hybrids, unless you want to lower your carbon footprint don't go hybrid. At best it will take you 6 years @ 15K miles per year before you actually save any money due to the price difference of the vehicles.
Bottom line Cadillac is the best valued vehicle because it does not take premium gas like its competiors and with a few exceptions is the most fuel efficient.
With speculators rampant you would be very hard pressed to correctly predict economic factors over that period. Gas could go up to seven or eight dollars a gallon, or a breakthrough in batteries could drive the price down to two dollars a gallon, but I would not bet on the latter.
Good luck with whatever you buy.
I too was shocked to buy a 2008 CTS 4 and when I got home found I could not open the garage door due to the GM mentality This is a $45K car with lots of other option including all wheel drive but no garage door opener!
After learning that the $10 worth of electronic is now a $400-500 install option I found the following solution.
On ebay I purchased a “Carper 310 mini remote” $17.75. The unit is very small (less then 3/8” thick) and will fit very snugly into the compartment in front of the gear shifter. Place the unit on edge up against the driver side of the compartment, buttons facing the passenger side and press it firmly down into place, it will not move around and takes very little space up.
Way to go GM, its no wonder why you’re losing buyers by the groves, you get a garage door opener in the most basic foreign models.
:mad:
I too was shocked to buy a 2008 CTS 4 and when I got home found I could not open the garage door due to the GM mentality This is a $45K car with lots of other option including all wheel drive but no garage door opener!
After learning that the $10 worth of electronic is now a $400-500 install option I found the following solution.
On ebay I purchased a “Carper 310 mini remote” $17.75. The unit is very small (less then 3/8” thick) and will fit very snugly into the compartment in front of the gear shifter. Place the unit on edge up against the driver side of the compartment, buttons facing the passenger side and press it firmly down into place, it will not move around and takes very little space up.
Way to go GM, its no wonder why you’re losing buyers by the groves, you get a garage door opener in the most basic foreign models.
:mad:
Sounds like a deal I should keep an eye on.
Who buys a $40K+ car that doesn’t have an electric garage door opener in there home? It’s the mentality of the manufacture (in this case GM) not the buyer.
CTS 4, is the all wheel drive version, and yes it’s an upgrade luxury item.
When I order a car, I check the standard equipment and the options to make sure I get exactly what I want.
Obviously you did not check the standard equipment and options or you would not have started this conversation. Good luck on your new car. This is the last I will have to say on this thread.
Either one of these collections would have made the cost of the car prohibitive and gotten me other options that I did not need. Like the sunroof for instance. Here in Southern Oklahoma, all the sunroof and it's transparent cover would do is heat up the car and the top of your head.
My point, and it is only my opinion, is that a luxury car like the CTS should have the garage opener in the base luxury package. My 05 did, my 08 is a lot more heavily optioned and it doesn't. No, I don't live in a big city like NY or Chicago. Thank God.
As to the sunroof; I spent a week visiting my grandkids in Las Vegas in 110 degree weather. The car was always in the sun. I found that the sunroof, with the semi-transparent curtain, never admitted enough heat to make the car feel uncomfortable, (which I have to admit surprised me). I think the White Diamond paint helped considerably.
I think that Cadillac is playing games with the CTS. When the STS and DTS merge on a new platform, I think that the CTS will replace the STS and perhaps the options will settle into something more sensible. The CTS price tag will probably be higher though.