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2008 Cadillac CTS



  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    I drove the current CTS and the IS250 - both have an Aisin 6 MT tranny. There's no reason to believe the 6 MT in the 08 CTS will be any different - I assume it won't get any worse.

    Let me clarify - the 6 MT in the current gen CTS feels much better than the 6 MT in the IS250 - and both trannies are made by Aisin.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Just a comment on the Autobahn. I cruised the Autobahn for a few years, and this highway system is made (and maintained) much, much better than any highway in America.

    It's a good thing that we have speed limits here in regards to speed and road conditions. Could you imagine what it would be like to hit an unsuspected pothole, or lay into a curve that wasn't properly banked at 120 + mph? It would/could be disastrous.

    Oh, and many German cars are tiny because space is at a premium, especially for parking.

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Two best highways I've ever been on here in the states:

    GA400 - when it's not under construction like it is right now
    FL528 - This one is so smooth and the only one I'd ever allowed my car to go over 100 mph on (did 138 mph on it once, silky smooth).

    Yes, yes I know, driving that fast is dangerous and those are rare occasions.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    BTW, the IS350s styling is many things, but graceful isnt one of them. The rear end neesd a lot of work, they tried to copy the proportions of the 3 series but didn't get it quite right. The rear quarter of the GS is similarly ungainly. I dont find any awkward angles on the '08 CTS.

    The IS design/styling is not "Graceful", nor was it meant to be. It IS bold and aggressive, and very sporty. Relative to the CTS design, which I like, it is tasteful, as the CTS can easily be seen a soverdone.

    The IS and GS designs are not similar enough to warrant comparison.

    If you want an awkward angle, start at the grill, which I like, but is awkward.

    The CTS seems to be a more well-rounded car than the IS, you seem to want to make a comparison, because it is bigger and offers two trannys. But the IS is better-looking.

    Caddy did a very nice job. The Caddy will be a hit. 'Nuff said. That's sayin' sumpin'. ;)

  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Back when I lived in Kaiserslautern (for 5 years) the Autobahn was very congested during the week just the same, but not on Sundays. I ran on A6 most of the time between K-Town and Trier (I hope I spelled that right) France. Word has it that the "tree people" want to implement speed limits to save the forest.

    I would love to take my CTS over just to give it a run.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Incorrect. The standard was voluntary for '06 and if you do not believe me, check out the SAE's website under the J2723 standard. The first cars certified were the Z06, STS/XLR-V, Pontiac G6 and Viper. Acura posted their new ratings on their own, not because it was the law. You'll find a ton of '06 models with the old ratings. Perhaps you are referring to model year '07 instead of '06.

    I just read on the website the both IS engines were rated using the J1349 protocal under the FAQ section.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    I wasn't referring to the current 3 series. I meant last gen German cars that didn't offer standard CD players/changers without expensive option packages. Sorry, I was not clear.

    I've driven various 3 and 5 series without the sport packages and realistically, they don't feel much different than other cars in their classes except for the extremely stiff/high effort steering. I'm confused, what two areas does the 3 series lead in? I count handling/chassis tuning as 1 so I can't think of another area where it smacks the other cars in the face. Lexus, Infiniti, TL & new CTS have better designed interiors are roomier and provide better value. If you ask me, unless you value handling over all other pratical aspects of car ownership the 3 series loses. I don't hate the 3 but I don't see why it's put on a pedastel by people outside of magazines. Sure we posters are enthusiast and want a more sporting ride but the trade off in price and lack of value will move the 3 to the bottom of the list for me. If I had to have a BMW, gimme the last gen 3 or 5 because I liked those better.

    Also, bad roads are a condition in a lot of the Northeast, not just SE Pennsylvania. If you have smooth roads, I am jealous and am happy for you. The amount of damaged rims I see on cars with low profile tires would probably surprise you since y'all have good roads. If the new CTS can combine good handling on 235/50 tires, that'll be a relief in these parts.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    we'll have to agree to disagree then, I do not find the IS350 to be attractive. Toyota design never does it for me although the new Camry is a decent effort in SE trim. The IS350 appears as if it was meant to be 6" longer but Lexus just cut off the back to keep it under a certain length. I am not a fan of the short rear decks on the IS and GS that make them look like hatchbacks. Lexus interiors are great, Lexus' handling and styling is merely average for the class. If you like Lexus styling than I am surprised (pleasantly) that you like Cadiilac's styling because to me the companies are total opposites when it comes to "getting it" in terms of great styling. Lexus doesn't get it.

    I dont find anything objectionable about the styling of teh CTS, it is almost perfect to my eyes. I find it to be appropriately aggressive and yet tasteful.

    I'm glad Chavis made the point about the SAE ratings because there are a lot of engines that have not been rated yet. It is voluntary based on what I've read.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    the info on said the 5 series is getting a 273hp DI engine, not the twin turbo from the 335i. DOn't ask me why, but that is what they are doing. The 535 will be significantly down on power and torque compared to the 300hp CTS.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I think his point is that Euro cars are terrible value proposition. I mean, they better offer good resale value when you consider how much they cost. I disagree with those who say that value is subjective and can be determined by each individual. We all know if a car is a decent value or not. Buying a $40K+ car and then having to pay for CD changers, HIDs, heated seats, 17" wheels, sunroof, full leather, etc. as options means that you have been had. To some people the prestige of owning a German car is worth that, but not to me. While Caddies are pretty steep these days, they are bargains compared to MB and BMW models. Compare the prices of the CTS to the 330 or C350. Do the same for the STS to E class or 5 series. The Cadillac models are many thousands cheaper for comparably equipped models.

    The 3 series is a class leader per the opinion of auto mags that have a love affair with that car. However, when you look at pricing, space, objective handling tests, interior design, etc. it's very hard to say the 3 series is the definitive class leader. The G35 and IS350 are basically on the same level, even if the press refuses to say so. As for sales, the 3 series has three body styles, RWD/AWD, two trannies, three engines and covers a huge price range and it makes sense that its the leading vehicle in this class in sales. No other entry level luxury car offers so many choices.

    BTW, handling on base model BMWs is not the same as sport package models. There is a reason why magazines don't want to use regular BMW models in their tests. Stiffer suspensions, larger wheels and performance tires make a difference.
  • piasonpiason Posts: 55
    The German cars have the worst reliability ratings. How can anyone say they are the leader? Why would anyone buy a car that will give you problems and cost you $$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 to fix? I had a MB and it was in the shop more than on the road. Nice riding car but why does most people say they are better??? They have more documented problems than American autos and you pay much more for them?
    My wife had a 2002 Ford Taurus "company car" and that car never gave her a day’s trouble, very under rated. It's all about status and most people buy MB or BMW just for the status. :surprise:
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Nope, all 06' models are SAE standard.


    Ward's 10 Best Engines Award
    By Featuring: 2006 Lexus IS 350

    Toyota Motor Corp. wins a Ward's 10 Best Engines award with its sophisticated new 3.5L DOHC V-6

    Toyota Motor Corp. is under way with a global play to take its Lexus premium nameplate to the industry's top tier.

    To achieve parity with the world's best, Toyota knows powertrain technology and performance must be a top priority.

    The all-new Lexus 3.5L DOHC V-6, a first-time 10 Best Engines winner, is one of the first of a new generation of Toyota engines to use direct-injection gasoline (DIG) technology, which company engineers say will be a cornerstone of the Lexus brand's initiative to be a powertrain-technology leader. In the coming years, all Lexus gasoline engines are to employ direct injection. Using a novel new system that combines DIG and port fuel injection, the new Toyota V-6 (code name 2GR-FSE) generates a scorching 306 hp, a figure that leads the class of premium V-6s.

    The new 3.5L V-6's stout horsepower exceeds that of more than a few well-regarded V-8s.

    The direct/indirect fuel-injection system also delivers laudable fuel economy improvements and an Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (ULEVII) rating.

    The over-the-top fueling arrangement results in dazzling throttle response and ready acceleration from virtually any engine speed.

    Toyota engineers say by adding indirect fueling to the DIG system (there are two fuel injectors for each cylinder), intake-mixture formation is optimized, maximizing the benefits of DIG: improved low- and midrange torque, reduced fuel consumption and better emissions.

    At high engine loads, only the DIG fueling is employed, making the most of DIG's ability to cool the intake charge and generate a denser, power-producing air/fuel mix.

    In low- and part-load conditions, the 3.5L DOHC V-6 uses both injection systems, cutting fuel consumption and emissions, while simultaneously enhancing torque production by as much as 30%.

    The complex top end is an elegant addition to the already excellent new port-injected DOHC V-6 architecture used in many Toyota-brand models.

    In addition to the innovative fueling system, the new V-6 uses a host of other high-tech components, such as a unique plastic water-jacket spacer that prioritizes coolant for the upper block to reduce cylinder-head temperatures.

    The technology affords a meaningful performance payoff for the all-new IS 350 sport sedan - and Lexus' global brand-hiking intentions.

    Apart from the eager acceleration, torque comes in abundance. The new Lexus V-6 rips for the redline with a magnificent 280 lb.-ft. (380 Nm) blast—a torque output that begins to threaten that of V-8s with a liter or more of displacement.

    The high compression ratio (11.8:1) enabled by the direct-injection fueling is a tip-off to this engine's heady power and efficiency potential.

    The city-cycle 21 mpg (11.2 L/100 km) and 28 mpg (8.4 L/100 km) highway fuel economy leads the entry sport-sedan class that relies on high-output 6-cyl. power (however, BMW's new 3L DOHC I-6 scores a better highway mpg figure).

    Toyota's new 3.5L DOHC V-6 is a marvelous technical development by any measure—the new performance, efficiency and refinement standard for 6-cyl. engines.

    Judges' Comments

    Winter: Utterly awesome engine, especially at this price point.

    Murphy: Always a sense of urgency with this engine in all ranges. Refinement beyond comparison.

    Engine type: 3.5L DOHC 60º V-6
    Displacement (cc): 3,456
    Block/head material: aluminum/aluminum
    Bore x stroke (mm): 94 x 83
    Horsepower (SAE net): 306 @ 6,400 rpm
    Torque: 277 lb.-ft. (376 Nm) @ 4,800 rpm
    Specific output: 87 hp/L
    Compression ratio: 11.8:1
    Fuel economy for tested vehicle (EPA city/highway mpg): 21/28
    Application tested: Lexus IS 350

    This article originally appeared January 2006 in and is reproduced here by permission. This article was written by a third party, and does not necessarily reflect the viewpoints or opinions of Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. is not responsible for any errors that may be contained therein.

    For complete vehicle information, capabilities and limitations, see your local Lexus dealer.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    The Lexus V6 is SAE rated but EVERY engine is not SAE rated. Gm, Honda and Toyota have rated many if their motors but the entired industry has not.

    I see that the info on the 5 series engine was incorrect and the 300hp I-6 is being offered. I wonder where that other info originated about the 273hp engine. Shows that you cant always trust the internet.
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 339
    I agree that the CTS was praised by the press when it was introduced. One reason for this praise was that it was far superior to Cadillac's previous effort the Catera.

    Clearly, the 2008 CTS will be a step ahead. Howevever, I disagree with your statement "that competition had managed to surpass it" because I don't think the CTS was ever ahead of BMW, for example.

    You are spot on with your assessment of the CTS buyer. I agree with you that most people buy one because they are getting good value for the money. Thus, I feel that GM can't price them too high. Think about it, would your father buy one if he couldn't use his GM card dollars and had to pay $3500 more?
    2014 Highlander XLE AWD, 2009 RX 350 AWD and 2007 Odyssey EX
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    chavis10: This is what I know. The Germans manufacture BMW's and MB's to two different standards. Those that are built to remain there are called Euro Spec, and those built for export are deemed US Spec.

    Because the US of A has such high standards for crash safety and emissions control,etc.,etc., cars produced for export to the US of A face great scrutiny, and therefore must be made to a higher quality than those produced IN the US of A if they want in.

    According to the information provided by MB plant (during a walk through tour) in Stuttgart Germany, some of the vehicles produced don't make the grade (flunk the rigorous inspections)and must remain in the European Theater. Probably many dollars/euro's lost, and I just wonder who pays for that part.

    I only wished that US auto makers were held to the same standard, but they are not. It may be because it is too costly, and/or as with Euro Spec cars, not subjected to rigorous inspections.

    NOTE: When I tried to ship my Volvo back (which I shipped from the US) to the US in the early nineties, it flunk inspection. It was only after I could prove that it was built outside of Europe (assembled in Canada) did they let it through. What a headache,and talk about double standards.

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    My father would, but it's so easy to use the GM card(or Ford card if you like Fords) that it's a no-brainer for many older people. When he buys one car, he starts saving for the next one.

    See, even without the $3500 in GM dollars, the CTS will start at about $30K. Not $35+options like the IS350.

    It's 80% of a BMW or Mercedes at roughly half the cost to own over a projected 10 year lifespan(he tend to keep his card for a decade or more). My mother loves the C class, but the cost to repair and the lack of reliability turned her off. Honestly, if even Suzuki and Hyundai can make nearly bulletproof electrical systems, Mercedes and BMW are in serious trouble.
  • piasonpiason Posts: 55
    BMW & MB will go under before any American car company. :surprise:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    You know.. I once would have thought that that was impossible, but darn it if Mercedes isn't practically trying to dig its own grave. Now, sure, they'll survive, but then again, so does Land Rover. If they keep this up, they'll end up being a niche product in a decade or two.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    I don't see how they could be built to a different standard - all cars come off the same assembly line. They could be inspected to a different standard after assembly, but Euro spec cars could fail just as easily as US destined ones. I would expect Caddy inspects CTSes just as well.

    It doesn't matter where a car was built - if you have a US title to it, you can ship in/out of the US as many times as you want till the tires fall off. Just make sure it doesn't have any dirt from the originating country.

    Biker, whose USDM '90 Civic made its way across the Atlantic 3 times.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Dude, that was a complete waste of space. That article is old and I read it eons ago. The standard was not enforced in 2006 model year, plain and simple. I already acknowledged that BOTH IS engines were certified under the new protocal so I don't understand the point of posting that information.

    GM Powertrain got nearly identical output on regular gas with a single source of injection.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289

    Still at it after all these years huh? Yes, the CTS is a good looking car, especially now with the 2008 redesign. Cadillac finally fixed what sucked soo soo hard about the current CTS, the interior!! ANd the exterior is much better looking too. the current model has looked ridiculously slab sided since it came out.

    You're trying to bust on the IS350 I see. Boy, you have always thought GM designs were breathtaking but in reality GM design has only been getting good for a couple of years now and it's just really starting to take off with cars like the Solstice, Sky, Aura, Outlook, Enclave, Acadia, and now the CTS.

    "If you like Lexus styling than I am surprised (pleasantly) that you like Cadiilac's styling because to me the companies are total opposites when it comes to "getting it" in terms of great styling. Lexus doesn't get it."

    Lexus has been "getting it" for years that why the cars have been huh...who's #1 in the US in luxury car sales?? Obviously a whole bunch of customers find Lexus cars attractive, not saying they are the most attractive but they sure have been more attractive for the past umm.....17 years. According to you, Cadillac "has been getting it" meaning "great styling" for the last 20-30 years but that just makes the statement look really foolish!

    But you know what, 2008 is the year that Cadillac finally becomes competitive with it's competition of BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. The 2008 CTS is WORLD CLASS, FINALLY. I have yet to see the interior first hand, but from pictures it finally looks like it can compete with the big boys in terms of styling & material quality. I hope GM doesn't cut costs and I find mis matched plastics etc. in the interior, because the new CTS just moved to the top of the list to replace my TL in 2009.

    P.S. Admit that GM was building and designing junk until a couple of years ago.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "I hope GM doesn't cut costs and I find mis matched plastics etc. in the interior, because the new CTS just moved to the top of the list to replace my TL in 2009. "

    Whoa- don't make any rash decisions just yet. The redesigned TL will be out in 08 as an 09 model.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    And I thought it was just me. My MB had so many issues I made them give me a new one and then it had so many I just traded it in for a Lincoln and have not had any problems sense. You can have their squeaky brakes and stuff!
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    biker4: It is known that cars are made different (better) because of the work ethic in some other countries, ie; Germany/Japan. And those cars destined for the US do in fact go through rigorous scrutiny. If the car is made in the US then it's not subjected to this degree of scrutiny.

    I think Cadillac has finally gotten the message, (to me it's evident with the quality my 03 CTS) and the overall work ethic has improved as well as many other things, and thus we get a better product. I only hope that other US auto makers follow the lead.

    If you shipped a car to Europe and back to the US, then it is US spec without a doubt. Otherwise (I tell ya) it's not allowed.

    If you have ever gone through US Customs, you will know that going out of the US they don't seem to care. Now coming back in is a totally different story.

    I left and re-entered the US (from all coast) about ninety-six times (worked with the medical airevac system) and lived in or visited sixty or so countries during my twenty year career, so I've been through US Customs a time or two myself.

    I was responsible for making sure that those (incapacitated persons) we returned to the States, had all their belongings shipped as well. This included their automobiles. So I've shipped a car or two as well. And I tell ya, it ain't easy sometimes.

    BTW When I did my tours to the auto plants (MB & Volvo) in Europe, the cars were not produced on an assembly line, they were done by hand.

  • arby1arby1 Posts: 83
    Lexus is #1 in sales because of its trucks, not because of its cars. They are very concerned about that , and that is why Lexus is working hard at making great cars.
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    Very nice color!
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Good angle shots, I don't think I've seen it from this view before. Makes it look shorter in one shot. Now I'm sure this will look good in black with ebony. Thanks.

  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    "But you know what, 2008 is the year that Cadillac finally becomes competitive with it's competition of BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. The 2008 CTS is WORLD CLASS, FINALLY"

    Here we go again... Boy, do people have short memories. Does anyone remember the original G35 interior, first gen IS300's interior, or any generation C-class interior? Let's not pretend that the competition has been all it was cracked up to be in the press. While I didn't like the design on the old CTS interior the quality in my opinion was equal if not better than the G35's interior.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    Anyone know the size of the wheels shown in the photo. The color really looks great! Also when will this hit the market and anticipated pricing?
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    starting to take off with cars like the Solstice, Sky, Aura, Outlook, Enclave, Acadia, and now the CTS.
    Hey! don't forget Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, Grand Prix, and Bonneville! And SSR-maybe Gm has had something more than three years.
    Lexus has been "getting it" for years that why the cars have been huh...who's #1 in the US in luxury car sales?? -Mercedes Benz. Don't even argue.
    2008 is the year that Cadillac finally becomes competitive with it's competition of BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. The 2008 CTS is WORLD CLASS, FINALLY. What about STS, and Escalade? THey compete well among the best.
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