Wow, that is a wild idea. I still want to see a rear slideout but this is one I never thought of. I have a bit of a hard time believing their dry weight numbers but I didn't look at the details closely. Probably the weight is in the options. Thanks for the link, I added it to my list.
An 8' Hardside camper under 1200#? How do they do that? And it has a toilet!!!! My (lightweight) Phoenix popup without toilet weighs 1400#. Clearly, this is the lightest weight hardside I've ever seen.
The 2nd bedroom option is interesting, but it is reserved for longer stays, not overnights and not for some of the places we have stayed. You need a fairly level place to unload the camper and reload it.
I'd sure like to see one and check the construction and materials. The details sound good on the website.
Anyone ever checked the difference. Seems to me that the front resistance would be on the bottom of the cab-over more than the front sloped area. Any ideas??
- Additional height = a larger cross section to move through the air. The sloped front helps, but it is still a bigger piece to push through the air.
- Higher weight = more gas used to accelerate up to speed. Most hardsides weigh more than the soft sides, and they have more storage area to put more weight into.
- Storage bins, racks, AC units, vents on top of camper. Common on hardsides, not so common on popups. Additional stuff on top creates more drag.
The front overhang on my popup is shorter than the cab of the pickup. Hopefully, that means less air gets trapped in there. See pictures of the camper on my 1500 at:
I saw the question about pop-up vs. hardside and MPG upon return from a trip down south. On Interstate 10 near Biloxi we found a guy running across the westbound lane from his parked Chev S10 to retrieve a nice looking balloon tired wheelbarrow which we concluded had BLOWN out of his pickup (tailgate up). This raises the question of whether it is better to carry a wheelbarrow on its legs and tire or upside down, the way I have always carried it, but which offers a rough airfoil to the passing breeze. I should have stopped to ask him which way he had it loaded before it blew out but he looked a bit frazzled and I didn't want to bother him with questions.
I would go with Stabbur and carry the wheelbarrow upside down. Problem with rightside up is the air can get under the tub and lift it up with bad results.
Most people don't have any idea how much power the air has when you are going down the road. Witness all the junk on the sides of the road. Furniture, mattresses (all too common), clothes, shoes, boxes complete with wrapping paper, pickup bed liners, etc. People expect gravity to stuff in the back of a pickup at 70mpg. And I'm sure they miss some of the pieces that fly out.
Nothing like riding a motorcycle across country a few times to give you a good appreciation for the power of the self induced wind. And a good fear of what can fly out of the vehicle ahead of you. And a healthy unwillingness to get near some vehicles.
Mike L
Bungee cords just don't cut it. They will stretch and let stuff fly. Stretch proof tiedowns or enclosed carriers are the best answers.
We wrecked the sidecar rig in Texas a few years ago. That caused my wife to not like the bikes, so we have the Silverado/popup camper.
I also have a couple of other bikes:
- 70 Triumph Bonneville with a Spirit Eagle S/C - 67 BMW R60
And of course, my favorite bike:
- 70 Triumph Bonneville showroom perfect with 7000 original miles. Sold it for $6K in 99 to buy the camper. I also had a perfect 69 Bonneville that I bought for $2K - it was so dirty, I didn't know what I had until after I cleaned it up. The pushrod tubes leaked so badly that the bike was covered in oil and dirt; the carbs were covered in gas residue from the top of the body to the bottom of the bowl. Fortunately, the oil protected everything - even the bolts had all the original plating. All I did was take it apart and seal the pushrod tubes, clean it up and sell it for $5k
We just returned from a trip to the Great Basin National Park in Nevada. The roads we traveled on were, for the most part, two lane and straight as an arrow. Traffic moves at high speed and it didn't take me long to learn to slow down and move to the right when I saw a big-rig coming my way. When those things passed by they caused an incredible amount of buffeting, and at times it seemed like the camper was going to be ripped from the truck. If I didn't have the camper and was just carrying something loose in the bed, I'm sure it would have been lifted right out of the truck.
Most of those I am too young to remember. Sounds as if you have an affinity for classic bikes. I'm glad to see Triumph back on the scene, along with some others. Never too much info when it comes to motorcycles.
While waxing my camper over the weekend I discovered the bottom corner(latch side) of my door was spongy feeling. I took the outer trim off and found that the frame from the latch down had rotted. It was easy to fix by ripping a piece of salt treated wood and replacing the bad wood. I guess water must get in around the latch. The rest of the frame was fine.
With winter fast approaching, some will put the camper away for the season.
What do you do to winterize yours?
Other than antifreeze in the water system what is needed. Oh, please don't use antifreeze in the water system - it is deadly!! I would suggest a little cheap vodka instead. 1 quart of vodka to a couple of gallons of water will stop things from growing in your tanks and help prevent freezing. Stir it up good (Drive around for and hour), then drain it out. Anything left behind won't kill you.
I hope to use our camper at least once a month for winter camping. Sequoia/Kings Canyon is free after the first snow, and they have heated bathrooms! Big Basin Redwoods State Park is empty in the winter. Beach camping is good anytime.
We use my friends camper in the winter up here in Alaska and what we did was install low point drains on everything and then in the fall we used compressed air to blow out all of the tanks before the first freeze.
One quart of vodka in two gallons of water will not freeze? What would it hurt if you left it in over the winter? I've always used the rv antifreeze, but your suggestion sounds interesting.
Nothing like a little controversy to get some activity in this group.
According to my CRC, it takes 5% ethanol to lower the freezing point of water 2 degrees. That's a lousy antifreeze. Maybe that's why I suggested draining it. What do I know about antifreeze? I know it is needed when I travel to the mountains in the winter, but not down in Silicon Valley where I live. We had a hard freeze about 10 years ago, and we get frost nearly every winter.
The real benifit is to prevent growth in the water tanks and lines with something that isn't going to kill us.
BTW, does anybody do anything else to winterize a camper? Clearly, I don't do anything else. And I only use the vodka to kill stuff that might be growing in the water system.
Last spring when I sent in the post about my friend who was using "vodka from the PX" as an antifreeze, I didn't research the freezing point depression caused by the addition of alcohol. Of course it makes a difference what proof Vodka one is using. Hundred proof vodka (50% alcohol) is harder and harder to find now, and probably not in the PX. Most bottles are 80 proof (40% alcohol). We can buy 140 proof rum in the New Hampshire State Liquor stores (70% alcohol) and it comes in a bottle with a flame arrestor neck device so that the bottle will not catch fire if opened near flame. Absolute ethyl alcohol (100%) will not freeze when mixed with dry ice. As I recall, the temperature of a dry ice, absolute alcohol mix is minus 73 degrees Centigrade or about minus 100 degrees Farenheit.
Putting it all together, I believe that draining the system and flushing once with neutral grain spirits 180 proof (which I last saw for sale in a grocery store while traveling through Blair Nebraska) would prevent any freezeup even in the coldest areas of the country. Whether the plastic piping and fittings could take the alcohol is another question. I know that some old auto fuel systems cannot take high concentrations of alcohol.
While on a recent road trip I noticed a motor home with the model name of 'Intrigue' and thought that was a strange name for an RV. Intrigue does not come to mind when thinking of RVs. Anyway, I then started to pay attention to RV names and saw another called 'Seven Seas', which seemed more appropriate for a boat. But the best name of all was on one of those high buck diesel pushers, it was called 'Exotic Nature'. Is that cool or what? I wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that name.
Jim "Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hours drive away if your car could go straight up."
Maybe they did market research, and they don't care what camper trash like us think.........they only care what people with more money than sense think!
Has anybody ever used indoor climate controlled storage for their rv during the winter? One has opened here. I am going to use it this winter. They were running a "special." Pay for four months up front, $85/month, and get the fifth month free. The temp. is not supposed to go below 55`F inside and is humidity controlled. What do you think?
at Camping World I'll buy the 15'x40' silver h.d. tarp and cover it myself. Leave it plugged in to keep battery up and also plug in my electronic rodent control device. I've never seen the RV Stores do even that for these rigs during our cold winters here in N.Y.
If I wanted to kill nasties in my water system I'd use good old bleach. It's more effective than alcohol and a heck of a lot cheaper. It does demand a good rinse afterward of course. I often put a strong water/bleach mixture in both holding tanks and slosh it around a day or so. I've never done my fresh water system, probably should.
I bought a bunch of stuff from rvpartsoutlet.com recently but haven't installed any yet. I decided 11 years is enough for the water heater so went ahead and bought a new one. The last thing I want is to get a major water leak, inside the camper, when out on a trip. My heater has mineral crud inside which keeps getting into the cold side somehow and clogging the toilet inlet. I bought a new toilet seal because I'm going to pull the toilet and flush everything out. The anode rod in the heater has never been changed. The manual with the new heater says to change it every year! Does anyone change theirs regularly? Apparently only Suburban brand even has an anode rod.
I also bought two new horizontal LP tanks. I did manage to get the local gas station to fill my non-OPD tanks but had to show him the web printout proving that horizontal tanks have an exception. My tanks are near the end of their service life anyway so I decided to go with the OPD deal rather than bother with recertification.
Other goodies: LP and CO detectors, replacement exterior molding, new clearance lights to replace the one a tree took out a while back. Still no Fantastic fan, maybe next summer. Anyone ever install a water heater?
First, it can attack some plastics and rubbers - and I don't know what materials are used throughout the water system in my camper.
Second reason is the smell that lingers long after it has been rinsed, twice, three or more times. And I hate the taste!
Last reason is mostly laziness on my part. The camper gets used in the winter, so I don't want to have to thoroughly rinse the water system every month or two. Much easier to leave the 1-2% alcohol in place and simply drain and refill the system when we are going camping.
For me, a cheap bottle of vodka into a couple of gallons of waters doesn't cost much and saves a bunch of time.
I changed out the 6 gal. water heater in my Shasta a couple yaers ago, after the leak was discovered ! Not a big deal since the whole unit comes out in one piece same as replacement goes back in. Just gotta disconnect the water lines/gas line. Ordered the replacement unit thru http://www.CampersWorld.com
It looks straightforward to change but I think there are a few difficulties. Suburban has changed the flange design so now the heater flange sits only inside the hole. A second sheet metal ring screws into the face and has only 3 little tabs for screws to hold the entire heater. They show it being installed on the floor with some blocks. I don't think the flange can take the weight so I'll have to build a support frame for the rear as the old one is only held in place by the flange.
Mike, since tap water always has chlorine at some level I'd hope they use resistant plumbing. I don't like the taste either but I never drink my tap water anyway, I buy a jug at the store. I grew to really appreciate chlorine after owning a swimming pool. Now I like the smell because it means no problems, like algee etc. You know what I mean being a pool owner yourself.
I think I will treat my system now that we are talking about it. I've never done it which seems not so smart.
I hate the smell of chlorine in the pool. Won't let Dorothy use enough cholrine to make it smell. We have looked at other systems - silver, copper, ozone and may make a change and totally eliminate chlorine.
I still remember the over-chlorinated pool when I was a kid. And the dizzyness, the ringing in my ears, disorientation, etc.
Now that you mention it, maybe that is why I am against chlorine in the water system - I'm extremely sensitive to it.
Have you tried 4Wheel campers to see if they have used unit, either for sale or rent? If you told them you have Lance and wanted to try a popup before buying one, you might get lucky.
but I did call on a Phoenix in the San Jose paper today. It's a 2002 Brave model, 82" long so too short for my truck. He said is was loaded and wanted $8800/bo. Pretty expensive.
I am still thinking about trading for the Lance 815. It would have the rear extension on it. Question is---how would you crank down the spare tire with the camper on--can it be cranked down from under the truck?
I carry a 920 Lance and I solved my problem by first getting under the truck and removing the plastic tube between the winch and the bumper. I used one or two sections of the two or three piece (I can't remember) of the extension that goes through the bumber that lowers the spare. To make this work, I used a 3/8 drive rachet and a short extension that you will have to check the length of to see what will work and I had to grind the male end of the entension down to the size that would slip into the factory extension. This allows you to get under the truck, slip the pieces together one at a time with the 3/8 extension slipping into the factory extension and the rachet to raise and lower the spare. This is what works for me. Mark
The graywater tank on my Sunlight covers the opening for the crank that lowers the spare on my Ram 2500. Before setting out on our trip two years agoI checked to see if I could turn the shaft with a vise grip while lying on my back under the truck. It turns but it is a chore to lower the tire. Sure enough we had a flat and I ended up on the ground with the vise grip. A small pipe wrench would probably be a lot better for the job.
Well we finally bought our camper. I want to replace the OEM tires on my truck, gmc sierra 2500. I would like to install the Michelin lt265/75R-16E tires w/ the 3400# rating. Question is will this fit the stock wheel, 16x6.5? If so will I still retain the 3400# load rating of the tire. The stock tires that came with the truck are 245/75R-16, 3042#. The other question is I need to install a 3/8" thick bed mat to sit the camper on. Problem is I am having a hard time finding one around where I live. I just want a 48"x96" mat, not the full coverage of the bed. I have a Rhino liner already, but I need a little clearance at the bumper w/ the camper; and I don't want to tear up my expensive bedliner. If you guys could tell me where you have purchased these mats I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Cory (new owner of 2000 lance 1010 W/ all the goodies )
The 265 tires are rated for a 7" or wider wheel. I've seen them on the 6.5" wheels with no obvious bad effects. I just wouldn't do it.
Are you over the load rating of the tires, or do you just want a larger tire for appearance?
The bedmat I got is about 1/2" thick and fits around the wheelwells. I doubt it is more than 3/8" thick at the ribs of the bed; it squishes a little with the weight of the camper on it. It was about $50.
You didn't say where you live, but you might try a farm supply store for a mat. Or, I've bought some mats for in front of machinery at Costco.
I will be getting close to my axle weight of 6kips fully loaded and ready to go. I wanted the michelin's because of the extra factor of safety. I don't really want to put new wheels on too mainly because of the additional cost. I have already spent quite a bit of money. I would put the stock size tire on if I could get a little higher capacity(greater than 3042). I will have to think about it. Thanks for the suggestion about the bed mat. I'm down here in ventura county, so there should be plenty of farm supply stores. Thanks again for the reply.
Looks like we will be heading to the desert during the holidays. Do you want to link up again and do canyon exploring?
It might be interesting to head back out to Racetrack and see if the rocks have moved recently. Looks like you can go from Racetrack, back to Teakettle junction, through Hidden Valley, over Hunter Mountain and come out near Darwin Falls.
Another place I want see is Sriped Butte between Goler Wash and Death Valley. You can come in from either side and go across - if you can make it through Mengel Pass. I think that is where you couldn't fit last time.
Certainly, the GPS and laptop would make navigation more reliable on some of these trails(?).
Dang, I'm getting enthused sitting here looking at the map.
Yes I'm interested. I told myself last time that I wouldn't bring the big camper back there but I don't have much choice. I'm not willing to tent it for a week in the cold. If I do bring it then it would limit where I could go obviously. Unless I could drop it and do day trips.
So, will you be heading up to Paradise and then down to Death Valley? Or leaving from here to DV?
I get the feeling we will leave on the 22nd/23rd and go to Las Vegas and then back to DV on the 25th/26th. I haven't been told exactly what we are doing - yet.
If your truck is a 4x4 you may find your over the axel rating when you are fully loaded including passengers. My 2000 chevy ec 4x4 loaded with two people with a Lance 920 had 5810#s on the rear axel....MARK
My truck is a 4x2. Your loaded axle weight is pretty close to what I have calc'd fully loaded and w/ two people. I will probably get a chance to weigh it next week and see how close my calcs are. The truck's wt. w/ full tank of gas and me in it was 5620# at the truck scale.
Watch out for the extras not included in the basic camper weight. My camper is stickered at 2220 lbs wet and I ended up at a total weight of 9100 lbs with a std cab 4x4 Silverado, two passengers and one dog. I assume your truck is ext cab, if so mine probably is similar weight. 5600 + 2220 = 7820 leaves 1280 for one person, jacks, tools, food, etc.
Comments
The 2nd bedroom option is interesting, but it is reserved for longer stays, not overnights and not for some of the places we have stayed. You need a fairly level place to unload the camper and reload it.
I'd sure like to see one and check the construction and materials. The details sound good on the website.
Mike L
- Additional height = a larger cross section to move through the air. The sloped front helps, but it is still a bigger piece to push through the air.
- Higher weight = more gas used to accelerate up to speed. Most hardsides weigh more than the soft sides, and they have more storage area to put more weight into.
- Storage bins, racks, AC units, vents on top of camper. Common on hardsides, not so common on popups. Additional stuff on top creates more drag.
The front overhang on my popup is shorter than the cab of the pickup. Hopefully, that means less air gets trapped in there. See pictures of the camper on my 1500 at:
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=1745496
Mike L
Most people don't have any idea how much power the air has when you are going down the road. Witness all the junk on the sides of the road. Furniture, mattresses (all too common), clothes, shoes, boxes complete with wrapping paper, pickup bed liners, etc. People expect gravity to stuff in the back of a pickup at 70mpg. And I'm sure they miss some of the pieces that fly out.
Nothing like riding a motorcycle across country a few times to give you a good appreciation for the power of the self induced wind. And a good fear of what can fly out of the vehicle ahead of you. And a healthy unwillingness to get near some vehicles.
Mike L
Bungee cords just don't cut it. They will stretch and let stuff fly. Stretch proof tiedowns or enclosed carriers are the best answers.
- 76 R90S (160K miles)
- 78 R100RS (105K miles)
- 64 R50 w/R100 engine/trans and Ural S/C(30K miles)
We wrecked the sidecar rig in Texas a few years ago. That caused my wife to not like the bikes, so we have the Silverado/popup camper.
I also have a couple of other bikes:
- 70 Triumph Bonneville with a Spirit Eagle S/C
- 67 BMW R60
And of course, my favorite bike:
- 70 Triumph Bonneville showroom perfect with 7000 original miles. Sold it for $6K in 99 to buy the camper. I also had a perfect 69 Bonneville that I bought for $2K - it was so dirty, I didn't know what I had until after I cleaned it up. The pushrod tubes leaked so badly that the bike was covered in oil and dirt; the carbs were covered in gas residue from the top of the body to the bottom of the bowl. Fortunately, the oil protected everything - even the bolts had all the original plating. All I did was take it apart and seal the pushrod tubes, clean it up and sell it for $5k
Probably more than you wanted to know.
Mike L
Jim
50mph = Gale-force wind
75mph = Hurricane
Bought the 76 R90S in 77, got the 78 R100RS in 80. Bought my first 70 Bonneville in 70.
By rights, I'm fast approaching classic myself.
Mike L
What do you do to winterize yours?
Other than antifreeze in the water system what is needed. Oh, please don't use antifreeze in the water system - it is deadly!! I would suggest a little cheap vodka instead. 1 quart of vodka to a couple of gallons of water will stop things from growing in your tanks and help prevent freezing. Stir it up good (Drive around for and hour), then drain it out. Anything left behind won't kill you.
I hope to use our camper at least once a month for winter camping. Sequoia/Kings Canyon is free after the first snow, and they have heated bathrooms! Big Basin Redwoods State Park is empty in the winter. Beach camping is good anytime.
Any other favorite winter camping spots??
Mike L
I use the non-toxic RV antifreeze but your mixture sounded interesting too and less wasteful !
Ray T.
According to my CRC, it takes 5% ethanol to lower the freezing point of water 2 degrees. That's a lousy antifreeze. Maybe that's why I suggested draining it. What do I know about antifreeze? I know it is needed when I travel to the mountains in the winter, but not down in Silicon Valley where I live. We had a hard freeze about 10 years ago, and we get frost nearly every winter.
The real benifit is to prevent growth in the water tanks and lines with something that isn't going to kill us.
BTW, does anybody do anything else to winterize a camper? Clearly, I don't do anything else. And I only use the vodka to kill stuff that might be growing in the water system.
Mike L
Putting it all together, I believe that draining the system and flushing once with neutral grain spirits 180 proof (which I last saw for sale in a grocery store while traveling through Blair Nebraska) would prevent any freezeup even in the coldest areas of the country. Whether the plastic piping and fittings could take the alcohol is another question. I know that some old auto fuel systems cannot take high concentrations of alcohol.
Anyway, I then started to pay attention to RV names and saw another called 'Seven Seas', which seemed more appropriate for a boat. But the best name of all was on one of those high buck diesel pushers, it was called 'Exotic Nature'. Is that cool or what? I wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that name.
Jim
"Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hours drive away if your car could go straight up."
Cool names for camper:
Six-Pac - one of my favorite names
Phoenix - good name for a reborn company
Alaskan - really makes me want to travel
What names do you like??
Mike L
Ray T.
I also bought two new horizontal LP tanks. I did manage to get the local gas station to fill my non-OPD tanks but had to show him the web printout proving that horizontal tanks have an exception. My tanks are near the end of their service life anyway so I decided to go with the OPD deal rather than bother with recertification.
Other goodies: LP and CO detectors, replacement exterior molding, new clearance lights to replace the one a tree took out a while back. Still no Fantastic fan, maybe next summer. Anyone ever install a water heater?
First, it can attack some plastics and rubbers - and I don't know what materials are used throughout the water system in my camper.
Second reason is the smell that lingers long after it has been rinsed, twice, three or more times. And I hate the taste!
Last reason is mostly laziness on my part. The camper gets used in the winter, so I don't want to have to thoroughly rinse the water system every month or two. Much easier to leave the 1-2% alcohol in place and simply drain and refill the system when we are going camping.
For me, a cheap bottle of vodka into a couple of gallons of waters doesn't cost much and saves a bunch of time.
Mike L
Ray T.
I think I will treat my system now that we are talking about it. I've never done it which seems not so smart.
I still remember the over-chlorinated pool when I was a kid. And the dizzyness, the ringing in my ears, disorientation, etc.
Now that you mention it, maybe that is why I am against chlorine in the water system - I'm extremely sensitive to it.
Mike L
Mike L
We will keep looking. Something will show up sooner or later.
Mike L
Cory
(new owner of 2000 lance 1010 W/ all the goodies
Are you over the load rating of the tires, or do you just want a larger tire for appearance?
The bedmat I got is about 1/2" thick and fits around the wheelwells. I doubt it is more than 3/8" thick at the ribs of the bed; it squishes a little with the weight of the camper on it. It was about $50.
You didn't say where you live, but you might try a farm supply store for a mat. Or, I've bought some mats for in front of machinery at Costco.
Mike L
Search for bed mats. They're priced at $53.
Jim
Looks like we will be heading to the desert during the holidays. Do you want to link up again and do canyon exploring?
It might be interesting to head back out to Racetrack and see if the rocks have moved recently. Looks like you can go from Racetrack, back to Teakettle junction, through Hidden Valley, over Hunter Mountain and come out near Darwin Falls.
Another place I want see is Sriped Butte between Goler Wash and Death Valley. You can come in from either side and go across - if you can make it through Mengel Pass. I think that is where you couldn't fit last time.
Certainly, the GPS and laptop would make navigation more reliable on some of these trails(?).
Dang, I'm getting enthused sitting here looking at the map.
Let me know if you are interested.
Mike L
So, will you be heading up to Paradise and then down to Death Valley? Or leaving from here to DV?
I get the feeling we will leave on the 22nd/23rd and go to Las Vegas and then back to DV on the 25th/26th. I haven't been told exactly what we are doing - yet.
Do you think Atilla's interested?
Mike L
happy camping....
cory