Tustin, CA. A few miles from Mazda NA HQ. Given that, I might believe him if it weren't for his claiming that he takes 20 mph corners at 80 mph without even chirping the tires. Maybe Mazda's ad men are up to their old buzz-building tricks by putting up faux "Wildchild" on the forum? He sure uses A LOT of CAPS!
So, would a Mazda dealer in Tustin naturally be getting Speed3's in stock substantially ahead of EVERY OTHER (whoops, there I go with the 'caps' thing) in the U.S. simply due to their geographical proximity to Mazda HQ? It's not like the cars roll out of port, are shipped to Mazda HQ, and then off to the dealers.....?
At first, I thought our overly excitable Speed3 owner was posting from outside of the U.S. (Oz? Canada perhaps?). But Tustin CA? I was under the impression that none of the domestic dealers had ANY stock (even to fill pre-orders) until the last week or so?
BTW - I know you ended up going out of Austin for your Speed3.....where is your dealer anyway?
Out to Houston and then back in again when S-Plan got nixed. I'm up at Premier now. Central didn't have any unclaimed cars coming for awhile and I wouldn't touch South with a 10 foot pole. Premier had an unclaimed CB Sport on the way, so I put down a deposit on it. Should have funding straightend out today and pick up tomorrow (knock on wood). Wish I was more patient and could wait for a more substantial discount, but I'm not.
I am in Abbotsford, British Columbia. If you go to My MazdaSpeed3 Pics you will notice the date on the license plate of the last picture. I got it at VIP Mazda in Abbotsford and in fact they already have another one in stock. As for the cornering, drive it befoer you comment. It ROCKS!!
Three major magazine reviews are in. The biggest negative comments to date are from Car & Driver and are about the shifter. The reviewer complained about grabbing the wrong gear with the "spongy shifter." Describing it Car & Driver went on to say "It's a cable operated selector with rubbery detents and a counterweight that sends shivers through the timbers with each lick. It's stilted, an arcade joystick." Final verdict on lows of the car was "joyless shifter."
O.K., Let's assume that they have to spice the language up to sell magazines, but that said, I've driven the MazdaSpeed6, which is reported to have the same shifter as the MazdaSpeed3, and while it wasn't bad, I wasn't impressed. That shifter didn't suck, but it was nowhere near as clean as the shifter on my MazdaSpeed MX-5, or even on my my first generation Miata. (Concession to MazdaSpeed6 owners: the MazdaSpeed6 shifter is a thing of beauty compared to that on my Dad's 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera.)
I'm in socal, have $500 down on a Cosmic Blue GT, and my local dealers have not yet received any cars. If you've been able to drive one, what do you think of Car & Driver's criticism? Also tell us what shifters you're comparing the MazdaSpeed3 to...
Interesting. I thought the only colors in North America were red, silver, black, and cosmic blue in the U.S. and red in Canada (with white available in Canada next year).
OK, so my cell phone takes crappy pictures, but here are some new ones from my digital camera...RED is the colour, not Orange. Check these new pics out. Anyway, comparing the shifter to my brother's VR6 Jetta. Everyone that has driven my car says they like the general feel of the clutch and shifter. My dad used to own an NSX and that thing a sweet shifter in it, but also cost 4 times more. Anyway, if you get one you'll love it despite it's shortcomings.
Alright, I finally picked it up. Nice and shiny and new. Pix to follow tomorrow. No problems at the dealership. The F&I guy was a motorcyle-riding MS6/DSM (450 hp) guy from SoCal. We talked for awhile about whether or not to use synthetic oil, wives who like/dislike motorcylces, and the potential MS3 aftermarket. Then he made one pitch for a service program which I rejected. I handed over checks and we were done.
First impression while heading home was that the acceleration is less visceral than the MS6. (Sorry, I can't help but make this an MS6/3 comparo, since I've been driving the 6 for 10 months now.) This makes no sense since the MS3 has a lower lbs/hp ratio. It must be the AWD or something. Or maybe with the extra weight it's just more of a production to get the MS6 going. I don't know. Of course, since it's brand new, I really only goosed it once or twice (had to pass truck to get to the entrance of Starbucks) and it did scoot right along. The acceleration is just somehow stealthier and I found myself going much faster than I thought I was going. Clutch is not a problem, maybe just a touch high. Torque steer is far from a problem, more like a fun little quirk than cause for concern. The steering feel seems heavier than in the MS6. Maybe the heavier steering feel is designed to reduce the sense of torque steer? Anyway, after 20 or so miles I'm used to it already. Road noise is a little higher than the MS6 also, but not bad. Engine/turbo sounds are much more prevalent than in the MS6. I think they are just about right for me. More noise would be annoying, especially on the highway. Around town it's nice and rumbly, let's you and others know you're driving a sports cars even though it happens to have 5 doors. This is a little bit of a dillemma for me b/c I want more power and acceleration. But if 30 more hp from intake/exhaust mods comes at the cost of much more noise, I don't know if I want it. I'll wait and see what other people's experiences are with the noise levels generated by intake/exhaust mods.
Interior is good IMO. Exact same level of fit and finish as the MS6. Little less room in back, but that just makes the kids easier to reach when meting out rewards/punishment or helping them out with this or that. Of course, I always pull off to the side of the road b/f doing anything that will take my attention off the road, such as talking on the phone, drinking, eating, etc. Unh, huh. Took out the rear compartment cover to get a little more sense of space back there. Stereo is better than I thought it was. I suppose it might not sound that great at high volume, but I hardly ever play it loud anyway. I like the gauges and the fact that they have marks at 5 mph intervals. The MS6 omits these for some stupid reason and I never got used to trying to tell if I was exactly 1/2 way between the 10 mph marks when trying to stay just under the unofficial speed limit in a 25/35/45/55/65/75 mph zone.
Handling is very good. As I noted in another thread, it is much more confidence inspriring for me, at least, than the MS6. Losing 400 lbs. and the shorter wheelbase make it much more flickable. I think it slides easier, though I have only 2-3 high speed corners under my belt in this short time. The MS6 seemed like it was on rails going round a corner at high speed. It hardly ever broke traction, but I was always worried that it would and do so suddenly. Again, it's too early to say, and I could just be channeling the SCC review, but my impression is that this car is more predictable. It feels like I will be able to tell when it's nearing the edge of its ability to hold the road. After break-in I'll have to take it out to a certain well-known twisty road and see how it does. I also have some good twisties in my daily drive but there's usually too much traffic for pushing the limits.
I am very happy with my new car and about my decision to switch from the MS6. For me, this will be a much more involved and fun car to drive. I'm also looking forward to autocrossing it. My autocross experience in the MS6 was a blast, but I think with better course visibility, lighter weight, and shorter wheelbase I'll be able to go faster easier in the MS3. As for the "younger" image of the MS3 which MS6 owners like to talk about, I'm not driving a car to make me look older or younger, I'm driving it to do what I need to do and have fun doing it. The MS3 does that better for me. Amen.
Nice pics, and thx for the feedback [msp3owner]. It makes me feel a bit better about the shifter. Can't help it though -- I'm still very anxious to try it myself. Maybe I'll get lucky and get to do so before January...
No worries johnboyd...you will enjoy this car very much. It is tons of fun. Is it perfect? Of course not, but my dad's BMW 745i isn't perfect either ($100,000). This will be my pride and joy for the next 4 years or so and I am sure it will give me the pleasure I was looking for in a vehicle. I know it ranks high in the perma-smile factor.
Great commentary. I have got a 1000 miles on mine already and they have been very enthusiastic miles! Every time I get in the car it is a pleasure to zip back and forth around town. My dad drove it the other day (driver of many top sports cars including NSX's, M3, M5, M6, and more) and even he was thoroughly impressed with what this "little red wagon" could do. To quote him, "That is quite a piece of machinery you got there. How much did you say it cost?" He was very surprised. The best thing is it is nicely understated. It doesn't attract too much attention (except for the 18" wheels). Fun, fun, fun. Apparently in the Car & Driver review they mention how to do the 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. Can't wait to try that out. HOOWAH!!
Apparently in the Car & Driver review they mention how to do the 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. Can't wait to try that out. HOOWAH!!
If you beat a Mustang GT then you must know something C&D doesn't (I drive a GT and it's quite fast I assure you). You'd have to either be up against someone who wasn't racing you in that Mustang or you can do 60 in the low 5s with your SPEED3. :P
If you go back a few posts you will see that I acknowledge that the young guy I had a short sprint with obviously didn't know what he was doing, as I know that the GT has a 0-60 of approximately 5.1 seconds. Not a knock on the car (although I do think they are ugly), but rather on the driver because he thought he was all that until the light turned green. He was the one looking for the run and I skunked him because of his lack of experience I guess. Anyway, enjoy your ride, just like I do.
Thanks for the great write up and I'm glad you touched base on the "younger" image. I'm a youthful 49, and still enjoy a fun car. The lease on my Altima is not up for another year, so that gives me plenty of time to drive the 3 and to check out the new Altima when it arrives shortly.
BTW...Motorweek is airing a short test of the 3 starting 10/20 on PBS. The speed channel also airs the show but they're usually running a week behind PBS.
but rather on the driver because he thought he was all that until the light turned green.
I know, I see them all the time. My favorites are those who have a V6 with a bunch of tacked on air dams, skirts, large wheels/tires, etc. and think the car is faster because it looks it.
We all know who they are but one thing I just realized as I type this is that I've never seen a tricked out Mazda3. Maybe the SPEED3 will change that. Not that I want it to.
Not a knock on the car (although I do think they are ugly),
Well I hope you at least like the tail lights because that's about all you should be seeing if you race one. I guess that only goes for about 99% of the time though as you've shown.
"Well I hope you at least like the tail lights because that's about all you should be seeing if you race one."
Just out of curiousity, I wonder if the Mustang in question was equipped with an automatic? I know the posted times for GT's equipped with manuals are damn impressive, but I've no idea what the automatics are capable of....?
More initial driving impressions. Driving at night revealed an odd thing. Lock-to-lock on the steering wheel can cause the headlights to flash off momentarily. It happened twice. Please let me know if anybody else experiences this, as it has me questioning my sanity.
The shifter does feel is a little rubbery and vague at this point and not nearly as snickety as the MS6. Maybe that will change as the car gets broken in. Also, you get a lot more gear noise, tranny clunks, and the like than with the 6. It is also much easier to see where you are on the road and exactly where the front and rear end are relative to other cars and the edges of the lane. I found myself much more willing to zip in and around other cars and thread through traffic than I was in the 6. The 6 is definitely the more refined of the two, and the 3 really is the Wild Child, just as advertised. All-in-all this is causing me to think that this is probably as close to a motorcycle-like driving experience as you can get in a comfortable 4-passenger car. Since that's what I've been looking for since I got rid of my old Seca 900 way back when, I am really enjoying driving this car. If you want a more stately, refined car that has loads of power, and is still a blast to drive, the MS6 is the car for you.
Lets also remember that just because the mustang says GT on the side doesn’t mean it really is one. There is one parked out at my local mall everyday that has Nissan Skyline GTR badges all over it because the driver wants to believe he has a stang GT-R prototype.
"Lets also remember that just because the mustang says GT on the side doesn’t mean it really is one."
True (although it's a little more difficult to fake the dual exhaust and different grille).
That being said, if some mouth-breather in a V6 Mustang (w/ GT badges) decided to take on a Speed3, then he DESERVED to have his hat handed to him.....
Just out of curiousity, I wonder if the Mustang in question was equipped with an automatic? I know the posted times for GT's equipped with manuals are damn impressive, but I've no idea what the automatics are capable of....?
Oddly enough the 5-speed ATX copies are only about .1 to .2 seconds slower. At least that's what the mags say.
That being said, if some mouth-breather in a V6 Mustang (w/ GT badges) decided to take on a Speed3, then he DESERVED to have his hat handed to him.....
The all do I say! Right down to the punk in the '95 Civic with the coffee can exhaust pipe.
I don’t see how any well-versed manual transmission driver can switch to the wrong gear and blame it on the cars shifter. Last time I checked all shifters, while in neutral, sits between 3rd and 4th, lean to the left 1st and 2nd, lean to the right 5th and Rev or 6th. As far as shifter feel, I understand some shifters feel sloppy but as long as you aren’t shifting like you are benching 500 pounds I don’t see how your miss shift is the cars fault.
There is a video on youtube of a guy driving a right hand drive speed 3 and it shows him go from 1st to 6th and it looks very smooth. I strongly doubt that the shifter is as bad as C and D would like us to believe.
here is a pic of that Mustang with the Skyline badges:
Someone should tell that poor guy that the "R" version of the Mustang was the Cobra R. :sick:
I strongly doubt that the shifter is as bad as C and D would like us to believe.
FWIW every car I've owned with an MTX had the shifter dumped on by one reviewer or another except for our '96 Civic (I say this because most Honda shifters in general are praised but I don't have a specific review in mind for the Civic). Let me tell you what. That was THE worst shifter I've ever used and one of the cars I learned to drive on was an early eighties Chevy Chevette with the reverse gear to the left of 1st (had to push down and over to get to it) and power nothing. The Civic shifter felt very rubbery and shifts had to be thought about or else you'd miss it. The shifter also seemed to bend in your hand. Not at all confidence inspiring.
The best one to date is the current Mustang with the Mazda6 S being second. I don't think the Mustang's shifter has ever been dumped on too hard but the one in the 6 wasn't all that well received IIRC.
It does, and even further if you can replace with MZSD muffler , air intake system, fuel injectors, headers, and from the dealer, you will kick STI's a** in no time with 300+hp.. It does 0-60 in less than 5sec. about 1.5sec ahead than stock with $3000 modification.
Mazda is only producing 5000 of these in North America and only 250 in Canada.. don't hold your breath for a discount and there certainly will be NO rebates... BUY THIS CAR NOW if you want it.. because there wont be many.
So what do those mods do to the torque sensing and control system built into the stock SPEED3? Does that system get shut off and if so which arm gets torn off first from the torque steer? :surprise:
Maybe the steering wheel just grabs both at the same time and throws you out one of the side windows instead? :surprise: :surprise:
Thanks for the impresions. Hope the shifter gets better.
Responding to your impression that the MS3 didn't feel as quick as the MS6 off the line, that is probably due to engine management software. It looks like Mazda was very concerned about torque steer with the FWD, and the engine management software limits the power if the wheels are not aligned dead center. This was not a concern with the AWD MS6, so it might feel quicker in places. Also, check out the automobile.com website for a dyno test on the MS3 where they are somewhat critical of the software's impact on the torque and horsepower curves.
The shifter isn't bad at all, just not as snickety as the MS6. I have no problems finding gears since I am used to the 6-speed pattern already.
Yeah, obviously AWD will be quicker off the line, with or w/o torque reduction. My impression is that the acceleration is less immediate and visceral across a range of speeds and gears. Again, maybe it's just the difference b/t FWD and AWD traction.
Regarding the Automobile dyno, that has been the subject of much discussion. No effort appears to have been made to get airflow from the fan through the top-mounted intercooler. The fan at the front appears to be blowing air across the IC but not through it. When the car is on the road, air is drawn through an opening at the top of the grille and directed through the top of the IC by a hood duct. Also, I saw no mention in the commentary of the effect of angle-sensing torque reduction programming on the power curve. Nor have I heard that the wheels had to be on dead-center to avoid any torque reduction. Can you show me where you read or heard this?
A stock STi does a 4.5 sec 0-60. The Speed3 with those mods will not take an STi. Keep in mind, no AWD, tougher to launch and a computer assisted torque system.
I have a deposit on a Cosmic Blue GT (w/Nav - delivery in early Dec.) from Tustin Mazda as well... Went by the dealer yesterday, talked to the owner - he said he was originally allotted 18, then got 2 more added. All 20 are presold w/deposits, and @ msrp. He also said he's had discussions w/Mazda Corporate management, and they may consider a bigger production run than the 5000 if these brisk sales continue... I went by the Mazda Design center (nearby in Irvine) on the way home from the dealer, and they had a few Speed3's in the back parking lot, with a "Cosmic Blue" one near the street. I'll try and sneak by the lot this weekend, and take some pics...
re: #89--you might be able to turn off the torque system in the MS3, i know you can in the MS6 (by holding down the DCS button for 7 seconds). 4.5sec would be hard to get to--though i have seen 5.1-5.3sec times from the stock (online and in like Car and Driver).
re: #90--i've seen a cosmic blue at two places in jacksonville, florida. mazda city of orange park has one sitting out front--nice color. they both had more coming in (i was picking up my '06 MS6 in liquid platinum ($22,300)--just a bit roomier and subtle.
I believe holding down the "DSC" button just deactivates the stability control and traction control. I do not believe there is a computer controlled torque limmiter on the Speed6 similar to the one found on the Speed3.
No rebates??? Funny when i bought my 07 M3 GT sedan two weeks ago there was a $750 number posted beside the MS3 on the rebate board. And for the record yes i sure it wasnt for the normal M3, those had a 1000 rebate.
Was in last night to get my plates 750 rebate on mazdaspeed3.
There is no rebate on the Mazdapseed3. There is no S-Plan, either. There has not been any rebates of any kind on the Mazda3 since the 04 MY in June of 2005, and that was only a $1000 rebate.
Maybe what you saw was an addendum by the dealer, or perhaps what they are willing to discount. But, I can assure you, there is no rebate of any kind on any Mazda3
They have a big dry erase board in the front of the dealership, it says rebates on it. Im just going on what it says. Shows a 1000 rebate on any 3 and 750 on MS3. I dont know who how or what they are doing, but i assure you that is what the board says.
I like Aviboy's theory. This is in line with discounts negotiated by those who have gotten a dealer to move off MSRP. The dealer can call it whatever they want, but it isn't a Mazda NA discount/rebate.
If you can, snap a pic and post it on a Mazda3 forum somewhere that allows pics. You'll will cause one very large uproar.
Most of the major reviews talk about the torque reduction, though they have not yet been posted online. For example, to get the sub 6 second 0-60mph figure, Car and Driver had to disable the traction control and keep the keep the steering wheel dead straight. This is why they said getting the sub-six number was tougher than launching the space shuttle.
This is what edmunds.com said in their online review:
"Routing 263 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque efficiently through the front tires is the job of the mechanical limited-slip differential and sophisticated torque management undertaken by the engine control computer. Torque is limited based on two criteria — gear selection and steering position — and is especially noticeable while cornering in 1st or 2nd gears."
Also as i recall one of the mags (dont know which one i read four on a flight a few weeks ago) kept their foot on the gas while shifting between third and fourth i beleive. Mazda told them not to lift off the gas and keep shifting.
Yes, Mazda said it was okay to do, the car could take it. No, they didn't do it. They said it was the equal to dropping a grand piano on the tranny and outside their testing protocols.
"...to get the sub 6 second 0-60mph figure, Car and Driver had to disable the traction control and keep the keep the steering wheel dead straight. This is why they said getting the sub-six number was tougher than launching the space shuttle."
I bought the car, and before I did I read every review ever written or filmed, on and offline, in this and other countries. They always turn off traction control when testing acceleration, and it would only make sense to keep the wheel dead straight with or without torque reduction in 1st /2nd /x degrees of wheel angle. In any case, I seriously doubt that having the wheels a couple of degrees off center as might occur during dyno testing would affect output results. The sub-six second 1/4 mile was hard b/c, DESPITE torque reduction, the wheels still "painted the pavement black" on launch. The tires on the MS3 are pretty good as far as I'm concerned, but others who drag race say stickier, wider tires are needed to get really good 0-60 and 1/4 mile times like the other FWD torque monsters out there.
C/D 0-60 test indicates potential, not what you'll get in practice. Why I say that: i. IMHO, If it's your only transportation, you're not going to do many drop the clutch launches, unless you own a $$ faucet. Spare/fun car, sure. Your only means of getting to work? Not likely. ii. That's using dragstrip starts - rev to the ideal rpm, drop or slip the clutch, whichever works for that particular car. iii. C/D has some fairly sharp drivers. They often post a better 0-60 than other mags iv. In the magazine, C/D published a pic of the starting line for that test. They practiced it 30 times, putting down a sticky layer of rubber in front of the line, much like a traction compound at a dragstip. It isn't too often I'm doing a standing start on pavement like that. One of their columnists did a writeup on their dragstrip tests some years back. They compared some of the reader's times to their own, and had C/D readers ride along with the CD test driver. The readers were suprised at how hard the m/t box cars had to be driven to get those times; rarely if ever did they match them with their own cars.
With stickier rubber and tuning mods the SP3 will surely beat those times and live to drive back from the strip. Just don't expect 100K mi on that clutch or axles if that's done every week... and have backup transportation handy.
Hey, I saw you got an Audi 2.7T. I thought of that but am shy about the repairs. I'd have to get one several years old to stay in budget (about 22K). What did you not like about the Speed6? The Audi is in a more expensive class so it should be more refined. Does it have turbo lag?
Went to the local dealer here and they had a price tag of "only" 36K for the MS3. I drove one, it was very nice, but the shifter is a bit vague and uninspiring. Same for the exhaust note.
Everyone is so shocked at the mark ups, this has been happening since the beginning of time.
Anyway, this is the first car in awhile I've been excited about. Really nice combination of styling, performance, and value.
Comments
Yeah, the 30 hp is for MS intake AND exhaust.
Where ARE you?
Where ARE you?"
Tustin, CA. A few miles from Mazda NA HQ. Given that, I might believe him if it weren't for his claiming that he takes 20 mph corners at 80 mph without even chirping the tires. Maybe Mazda's ad men are up to their old buzz-building tricks by putting up faux "Wildchild" on the forum? He sure uses A LOT of CAPS!
www.marketingvox.com/archives/2004/11/01/fake_mazda_blog_site_pulled/
You'd think it would be "once burned, twice shy", but you never know.
At first, I thought our overly excitable Speed3 owner was posting from outside of the U.S. (Oz? Canada perhaps?). But Tustin CA? I was under the impression that none of the domestic dealers had ANY stock (even to fill pre-orders) until the last week or so?
BTW - I know you ended up going out of Austin for your Speed3.....where is your dealer anyway?
Three major magazine reviews are in. The biggest negative comments to date are from Car & Driver and are about the shifter. The reviewer complained about grabbing the wrong gear with the "spongy shifter." Describing it Car & Driver went on to say "It's a cable operated selector with rubbery detents and a counterweight that sends shivers through the timbers with each lick. It's stilted, an arcade joystick." Final verdict on lows of the car was "joyless shifter."
O.K., Let's assume that they have to spice the language up to sell magazines, but that said, I've driven the MazdaSpeed6, which is reported to have the same shifter as the MazdaSpeed3, and while it wasn't bad, I wasn't impressed. That shifter didn't suck, but it was nowhere near as clean as the shifter on my MazdaSpeed MX-5, or even on my my first generation Miata. (Concession to MazdaSpeed6 owners: the MazdaSpeed6 shifter is a thing of beauty compared to that on my Dad's 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera.)
I'm in socal, have $500 down on a Cosmic Blue GT, and my local dealers have not yet received any cars. If you've been able to drive one, what do you think of Car & Driver's criticism? Also tell us what shifters you're comparing the MazdaSpeed3 to...
Interesting. I thought the only colors in North America were red, silver, black, and cosmic blue in the U.S. and red in Canada (with white available in Canada next year).
How did you score a lava orange Speed3?
:shades: Updated Pics :shades:
First impression while heading home was that the acceleration is less visceral than the MS6. (Sorry, I can't help but make this an MS6/3 comparo, since I've been driving the 6 for 10 months now.) This makes no sense since the MS3 has a lower lbs/hp ratio. It must be the AWD or something. Or maybe with the extra weight it's just more of a production to get the MS6 going. I don't know. Of course, since it's brand new, I really only goosed it once or twice (had to pass truck to get to the entrance of Starbucks) and it did scoot right along. The acceleration is just somehow stealthier and I found myself going much faster than I thought I was going. Clutch is not a problem, maybe just a touch high. Torque steer is far from a problem, more like a fun little quirk than cause for concern. The steering feel seems heavier than in the MS6. Maybe the heavier steering feel is designed to reduce the sense of torque steer? Anyway, after 20 or so miles I'm used to it already. Road noise is a little higher than the MS6 also, but not bad. Engine/turbo sounds are much more prevalent than in the MS6. I think they are just about right for me. More noise would be annoying, especially on the highway. Around town it's nice and rumbly, let's you and others know you're driving a sports cars even though it happens to have 5 doors. This is a little bit of a dillemma for me b/c I want more power and acceleration. But if 30 more hp from intake/exhaust mods comes at the cost of much more noise, I don't know if I want it. I'll wait and see what other people's experiences are with the noise levels generated by intake/exhaust mods.
Interior is good IMO. Exact same level of fit and finish as the MS6. Little less room in back, but that just makes the kids easier to reach when meting out rewards/punishment or helping them out with this or that. Of course, I always pull off to the side of the road b/f doing anything that will take my attention off the road, such as talking on the phone, drinking, eating, etc. Unh, huh. Took out the rear compartment cover to get a little more sense of space back there. Stereo is better than I thought it was. I suppose it might not sound that great at high volume, but I hardly ever play it loud anyway. I like the gauges and the fact that they have marks at 5 mph intervals. The MS6 omits these for some stupid reason and I never got used to trying to tell if I was exactly 1/2 way between the 10 mph marks when trying to stay just under the unofficial speed limit in a 25/35/45/55/65/75 mph zone.
Handling is very good. As I noted in another thread, it is much more confidence inspriring for me, at least, than the MS6. Losing 400 lbs. and the shorter wheelbase make it much more flickable. I think it slides easier, though I have only 2-3 high speed corners under my belt in this short time. The MS6 seemed like it was on rails going round a corner at high speed. It hardly ever broke traction, but I was always worried that it would and do so suddenly. Again, it's too early to say, and I could just be channeling the SCC review, but my impression is that this car is more predictable. It feels like I will be able to tell when it's nearing the edge of its ability to hold the road. After break-in I'll have to take it out to a certain well-known twisty road and see how it does. I also have some good twisties in my daily drive but there's usually too much traffic for pushing the limits.
I am very happy with my new car and about my decision to switch from the MS6. For me, this will be a much more involved and fun car to drive. I'm also looking forward to autocrossing it. My autocross experience in the MS6 was a blast, but I think with better course visibility, lighter weight, and shorter wheelbase I'll be able to go faster easier in the MS3. As for the "younger" image of the MS3 which MS6 owners like to talk about, I'm not driving a car to make me look older or younger, I'm driving it to do what I need to do and have fun doing it. The MS3 does that better for me. Amen.
If you beat a Mustang GT then you must know something C&D doesn't (I drive a GT and it's quite fast I assure you). You'd have to either be up against someone who wasn't racing you in that Mustang or you can do 60 in the low 5s with your SPEED3. :P
The lease on my Altima is not up for another year, so that gives me plenty of time to drive the 3 and to check out the new Altima when it arrives shortly.
BTW...Motorweek is airing a short test of the 3 starting 10/20 on PBS. The speed channel also airs the show but they're usually running a week behind PBS.
I know, I see them all the time. My favorites are those who have a V6 with a bunch of tacked on air dams, skirts, large wheels/tires, etc. and think the car is faster because it looks it.
We all know who they are but one thing I just realized as I type this is that I've never seen a tricked out Mazda3. Maybe the SPEED3 will change that. Not that I want it to.
Not a knock on the car (although I do think they are ugly),
Well I hope you at least like the tail lights because that's about all you should be seeing if you race one. I guess that only goes for about 99% of the time though as you've shown.
Just out of curiousity, I wonder if the Mustang in question was equipped with an automatic? I know the posted times for GT's equipped with manuals are damn impressive, but I've no idea what the automatics are capable of....?
The shifter does feel is a little rubbery and vague at this point and not nearly as snickety as the MS6. Maybe that will change as the car gets broken in. Also, you get a lot more gear noise, tranny clunks, and the like than with the 6. It is also much easier to see where you are on the road and exactly where the front and rear end are relative to other cars and the edges of the lane. I found myself much more willing to zip in and around other cars and thread through traffic than I was in the 6. The 6 is definitely the more refined of the two, and the 3 really is the Wild Child, just as advertised. All-in-all this is causing me to think that this is probably as close to a motorcycle-like driving experience as you can get in a comfortable 4-passenger car. Since that's what I've been looking for since I got rid of my old Seca 900 way back when, I am really enjoying driving this car. If you want a more stately, refined car that has loads of power, and is still a blast to drive, the MS6 is the car for you.
True (although it's a little more difficult to fake the dual exhaust and different grille).
That being said, if some mouth-breather in a V6 Mustang (w/ GT badges) decided to take on a Speed3, then he DESERVED to have his hat handed to him.....
Oddly enough the 5-speed ATX copies are only about .1 to .2 seconds slower. At least that's what the mags say.
That being said, if some mouth-breather in a V6 Mustang (w/ GT badges) decided to take on a Speed3, then he DESERVED to have his hat handed to him.....
The all do I say! Right down to the punk in the '95 Civic with the coffee can exhaust pipe.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/wosw07/P1010047.jpg
Back to topic and the C and D review.
I don’t see how any well-versed manual transmission driver can switch to the wrong gear and blame it on the cars shifter. Last time I checked all shifters, while in neutral, sits between 3rd and 4th, lean to the left 1st and 2nd, lean to the right 5th and Rev or 6th. As far as shifter feel, I understand some shifters feel sloppy but as long as you aren’t shifting like you are benching 500 pounds I don’t see how your miss shift is the cars fault.
There is a video on youtube of a guy driving a right hand drive speed 3 and it shows him go from 1st to 6th and it looks very smooth. I strongly doubt that the shifter is as bad as C and D would like us to believe.
Someone should tell that poor guy that the "R" version of the Mustang was the Cobra R. :sick:
I strongly doubt that the shifter is as bad as C and D would like us to believe.
FWIW every car I've owned with an MTX had the shifter dumped on by one reviewer or another except for our '96 Civic (I say this because most Honda shifters in general are praised but I don't have a specific review in mind for the Civic). Let me tell you what. That was THE worst shifter I've ever used and one of the cars I learned to drive on was an early eighties Chevy Chevette with the reverse gear to the left of 1st (had to push down and over to get to it) and power nothing. The Civic shifter felt very rubbery and shifts had to be thought about or else you'd miss it. The shifter also seemed to bend in your hand. Not at all confidence inspiring.
The best one to date is the current Mustang with the Mazda6 S being second. I don't think the Mustang's shifter has ever been dumped on too hard but the one in the 6 wasn't all that well received IIRC.
Man that "Vette" was a sweet ride. :P
Maybe the steering wheel just grabs both at the same time and throws you out one of the side windows instead? :surprise: :surprise:
Responding to your impression that the MS3 didn't feel as quick as the MS6 off the line, that is probably due to engine management software. It looks like Mazda was very concerned about torque steer with the FWD, and the engine management software limits the power if the wheels are not aligned dead center. This was not a concern with the AWD MS6, so it might feel quicker in places. Also, check out the automobile.com website for a dyno test on the MS3 where they are somewhat critical of the software's impact on the torque and horsepower curves.
Yeah, obviously AWD will be quicker off the line, with or w/o torque reduction. My impression is that the acceleration is less immediate and visceral across a range of speeds and gears. Again, maybe it's just the difference b/t FWD and AWD traction.
Regarding the Automobile dyno, that has been the subject of much discussion. No effort appears to have been made to get airflow from the fan through the top-mounted intercooler. The fan at the front appears to be blowing air across the IC but not through it. When the car is on the road, air is drawn through an opening at the top of the grille and directed through the top of the IC by a hood duct. Also, I saw no mention in the commentary of the effect of angle-sensing torque reduction programming on the power curve. Nor have I heard that the wheels had to be on dead-center to avoid any torque reduction. Can you show me where you read or heard this?
He also said he's had discussions w/Mazda Corporate management, and they may consider a bigger production run than the 5000 if these brisk sales continue...
I went by the Mazda Design center (nearby in Irvine) on the way home from the dealer, and they had a few Speed3's in the back parking lot, with a "Cosmic Blue" one near the street. I'll try and sneak by the lot this weekend, and take some pics...
re: #90--i've seen a cosmic blue at two places in jacksonville, florida. mazda city of orange park has one sitting out front--nice color. they both had more coming in (i was picking up my '06 MS6 in liquid platinum ($22,300)--just a bit roomier and subtle.
There is no rebate on the Mazdapseed3. There is no S-Plan, either. There has not been any rebates of any kind on the Mazda3 since the 04 MY in June of 2005, and that was only a $1000 rebate.
Maybe what you saw was an addendum by the dealer, or perhaps what they are willing to discount. But, I can assure you, there is no rebate of any kind on any Mazda3
If you can, snap a pic and post it on a Mazda3 forum somewhere that allows pics. You'll will cause one very large uproar.
This is what edmunds.com said in their online review:
"Routing 263 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque efficiently through the front tires is the job of the mechanical limited-slip differential and sophisticated torque management undertaken by the engine control computer. Torque is limited based on two criteria — gear selection and steering position — and is especially noticeable while cornering in 1st or 2nd gears."
I bought the car, and before I did I read every review ever written or filmed, on and offline, in this and other countries. They always turn off traction control when testing acceleration, and it would only make sense to keep the wheel dead straight with or without torque reduction in 1st /2nd /x degrees of wheel angle. In any case, I seriously doubt that having the wheels a couple of degrees off center as might occur during dyno testing would affect output results. The sub-six second 1/4 mile was hard b/c, DESPITE torque reduction, the wheels still "painted the pavement black" on launch. The tires on the MS3 are pretty good as far as I'm concerned, but others who drag race say stickier, wider tires are needed to get really good 0-60 and 1/4 mile times like the other FWD torque monsters out there.
i. IMHO, If it's your only transportation, you're not going to do many drop the clutch launches, unless you own a $$ faucet. Spare/fun car, sure. Your only means of getting to work? Not likely.
ii. That's using dragstrip starts - rev to the ideal rpm, drop or slip the clutch, whichever works for that particular car.
iii. C/D has some fairly sharp drivers. They often post a better 0-60 than other mags
iv. In the magazine, C/D published a pic of the starting line for that test. They practiced it 30 times, putting down a sticky layer of rubber in front of the line, much like a traction compound at a dragstip. It isn't too often I'm doing a standing start on pavement like that.
One of their columnists did a writeup on their dragstrip tests some years back. They compared some of the reader's times to their own, and had C/D readers ride along with the CD test driver. The readers were suprised at how hard the m/t box cars had to be driven to get those times; rarely if ever did they match them with their own cars.
With stickier rubber and tuning mods the SP3 will surely beat those times and live to drive back from the strip. Just don't expect 100K mi on that clutch or axles if that's done every week... and have backup transportation handy.
What did you not like about the Speed6? The Audi is in a more expensive class so it should be more refined. Does it have turbo lag?
Everyone is so shocked at the mark ups, this has been happening since the beginning of time.
Anyway, this is the first car in awhile I've been excited about. Really nice combination of styling, performance, and value.