Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport Trac - III
This topic is a continuation of Topic 2026....
Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport
Trac - II. Please continue these discussions here.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport
Trac - II. Please continue these discussions here.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
This discussion has been closed.
Boy did this list get quiet after the move.
So what publication do you feel is good?
You die hard American truck buyers should be praising Nissan and Toyota. You wouldn't even have a compact pick up if it wasn't for them. You certainly wouldn't have the Sport Trac. Only because of the competetion did Ford even take the risk!
CR is also the magazine that complained about the last generation 300ZX twin turbo because it got poor fuel economy and had a bouncy ride!!!!
VInce said, "Once again ANOTHER article ripping Nissan, but as usual its no good to the Nissan bunch.."
Is that kinda like that article you have been ignoring for the last 6 months from open road that picked the frontier as a better offroader with better on road manners and complained about the 100ft extra it took the ranger to stop??????
Kinda like that? Is that what you mean?
Most of the other magazines are similar in their focus. They are either sports car orientated or off-road minded. There is still some good information to be had and everyone enjoys a good review of their vehicle of choice.
Mahi: It goes both ways. Anyone who is so diehard that they cannot admit good features on other makes, is anal. The best manufacurers take apart the competition and find ways to make a better product. Sometimes they hit a home run, sometime a double and sometimes a pop fly out.
Good gooba, cncman, mahi, for liking your Nissan. Same old story, never ends, Ford bad, Nissan good.
I just pissed you guys off showing you why the Ranger is NUMERO UNO, number one for those of you who don't speak two languages..
Live with your choice and don't challange any 4.0 5spd Rangers with those weak 3.3's. And another word of advise, Really, don't challange any new SOHC 4.0 Rangers... [email protected]!!
Gooba, you are so lame! I really must have pissed
you off when I showed you just how weak, cheap and
where the Frontier stood in the compact truck food
chain, at the bottom! LOL... Also, a solid diff
better, ask any offroad shop. Just goes to prove
once again, you don't offroad. When the Ranger
switched in 97 there was quite a controversy.
And why don't you tell everyone here what the 0=60
times are for your 3.3 Supercharged bandaid? How
about 9.5-9.9!! LOL... Why can't Nissan make a
naturally aspirated engine to compete with
Ford/GM/Toyota? Can you imagine a Supercharged
4.0 in a RAnger?? it would absolutely trounce
your weak 3.3 Supercharged! LOL....
Once again, Bad Vince, for being happy with your
Good gooba, cncman, mahi, for liking your Nissan.
Same old story, never ends, Ford bad, Nissan good.
I just pissed you guys off showing you why the
Ranger is NUMERO UNO, number one for those of you
who don't speak two languages..
Live with your choice and don't challange any 4.0
5spd Rangers with those weak 3.3's. And another
word of advise, Really, don't challange any new
SOHC 4.0 Rangers... [email protected]!!
Mahi, your kidding yourself along with anyone who
knows about towing. A 4,000 lb boat with a truck
that has 170HP and 200ft/lbs of torque! LOL! Nice
story. Anyone can do the math, the two don't add
up. Add your truck weight, people weight, gear
weight...Yes, it may be able to barely pull it,
not as you wish or dream......
"laughing" how about grunting.... LOL!!!!
Ok, you Nissan whiners, just face it you bought
the compact truck lowest on the food chain!! LOL!
Enjoy your weak 3.3 and 2.4's. Ford has 3
engines, but I guess you don't want to mention
huh? Nor do you want to mention a 3.0 is only
about 300 dollars more than a 2.5, Nor will you
then mention a 3.0 has 150HP and 192f/lbs of
torque, is available in ANY Ford RAnger, Along
its 4.0 is Available in ANY Ford RAnger..
Rangers rule! The Frontier doesn't even make the
top 30!! LOL as far as sales numbers.. Nor has
Nissan truck even broke the top 25 mark in sales,
Why Cncman? If the Nissan is so superior why
over 15 years hasn't Nissan taken the number one
spot in sales? Sales do matter as much as all of
you want to try to say they don't. Sales make
money! Something Nissan hasn't done for years!
Yes, I smoked one of your precious 4 door high
tech 3.3 Frontiers with my older pushrod 4.0!
See you in the Cascades
Oh, I don't see Frontiers up there, they can't
make it!! LOL....
Anybody see a pattern?
I am experienceing the same thing, I probably won't have an SC to demo for very long before the customer that ordered it comes to pick it up! Nissan does a whole lot of testing on a vehicle before they put it on the market, I am sure the SC will be very reliable, anyway Nissan guarantees it for 5yrs/60,000 miles! That's longer than any ford engine. Again three reasons why the 3.5l is not in the frontier, 1. Cost prohibitive, 2. Won't fit without modifying the platform to be wider, 3. The VQ is the upscale version and used to seperate the up-scale nissans from the rest like the PF and the Xterra, it'll be nice though when Nissan gets the Infiniti V8 for the fullsize truck. I would not be surprised to see in the next 2 years the 3.3l beefed up to around 3.5-4.0l, it is a great proven workhorse of an engine, and there is no need to scrap it.
Just a note I bought the November issue of Truckin'. It's cool they have a Factory Shootout and they compare the Nissan Frontier Desert Runner SC. This is the second article that praised the truck, the first article I read over the weekend in the new Truck Trend magazine. This is what the Truckin' article said in the last paragraph "Not only did the Frontier prove itself to be a contender in the arena of muscle trucks, it also proved that it has the best overall package of any midsize pickup. Besides, it was the one truck that everyone wanted to drive home."
This article compared: '99 Ford Lightning, Chevrolet Xtreme, Kenne Bell Dodge Quad Cab, 2001 Frontier, Kenne Bell Navigator and the Mercedes ML55. I'm not one to use magazine articles as a reference for my purchasing but found how the guys at this magazine who know trucks were impressed with the new frontier, considering the competition...it beat the Xtreme in 0-60 times. Good article for entertainment. Plus this article coupled with the Truck trend article proves that the media seems impressed with the new truck. There is also a 3 page article on just the Frontier. "It is quite obvious that Nissan is serious about it's trucks when it comes to horsepower and building a solid vehicle that will last long and compete with domestics trucks."
Here's more: "On Crew Cab models, the rear seats are also available in leather and can be foldedd up to accommodate additional cargo space."
Looks like they answered the problem I complained about. If you guys want I can post the article on the frontracspace site. Just let me know.
"Satisfaction: Remains high in spite of owners' complaints about reliability problems."
carpoint.msn.com review of 2000 Frontier -
"Satisfaction: Its rating remains high because the vehicle is reliable and the warranty is one of the best on the market."
p.s. did I ever tell you my 98 Ranger was so bad that Ford Motor Company was forced to buy it back from me? Not fix it, not cover it under a free extended warrant, but BUY IT BACK.
hunt and I notice quite a few Nissan CC running
around out there. This a big farming and ranching
area. I did not see one Ford Sport Trac out there!
Plus you said it.... its a Farming and Ranching area. The ST marketing is SUV territory not towin the tractor.
I'm seeing advertisments for the new nissan engine on TV but they never show a CC.
Any 4WD vehicle is gonna be allot firmer than your Maxima. Its just the nature of the beast. The question you need to answer is, "Is the vehicle of your choice too bumpy"?
I suggest an extended test ride of at least 20 minutes on various roads. Make sure you drive for at least 20 minutes! Don't cut yourself short! You don't need to go off roading but I do suggest normal highway speeds, passing acceleration tests, stop and go traffic tests and various road conditions both good and bad. Pay particular attention to the feel and noise levels during each phase.
Remember its a truck and will NEVER be as smooth as your Maxima. I also suggest you test other vehicles of the same type. Test drive the following,
Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Dodge Dakota Quad Cab
Toyota Tacoma Double Cab (Just Out)
Chevrolet is supposed to come out with a version in 2001.
The biggest complaint of the CC has been power. It gets poor marks in power but relatively good marks in the rest. Nissan just came out with a Supercharger option but no one here has test driven it yet.
I do not own a CC, I own a Ford Explorer Sport Trac. (ST for short) Since this topic is CC vs ST I'm here talking about the ST. You should know if you couldn't tell from his response cncman is a Nissan sales person :-) To answer your question about the open bed, I have the Locking Tonneau cover option on my ST. It gives me twice the locking storage of a normal auto trunk. If you buy a CC I would look at the locking Tonneau's available. My cover was on back order for 3 months from my dealer and during that time I had many storage issues. A locking cover is a MUST on these types of vehicles. Don't leave home with out one!!!
I have no idea where you are getting your questions from. What is the reference to blasted about? The reviews about the CC's lack of power are widely known and we discussed them in detail many times previously. Where are you getting all these pricing comments from. Did you read a post in another topic and cross post it here? My post to lawkat never mentioned prices. But as we all discussed before there is no way to compare the 2 vehicles apples to apples cuz if you take comparably equipped ST's & CC's the ST will have more features. For example both have sunroofs but the CC's is Manual and the ST's is electric. Both have rear windows but the CC's is manual and the ST's is electric. The ST's Leather package includes 6 Way Power drivers seat, Rear Climate control and rear seat radio controls. The ST's power package includes a door entry keypad. The ST comes standard with 60/40 folding rear seats and a 4.0 V6. The Supercharger is optional on the CC's 3.3 V6. I can go on but I think you get the point. If not, what I'm trying to say is although the ST is more $ you get more features.
BTW, in your price comparison you compared the price of the 4x2 CC against the price of a 4x4 ST. According to Edmunds a "FULLY" loaded (every Option) 4x2 ST's MSRP is $26,065 or about $865 more than the CC you quoted.
Since you do not remember the reviews that were posted previously here are some I quickly found. These comments are about the NON-Supercharged engine.
The engine is anonymous. Full of sound and fury as you stomp on the pedal it signifies little power, like when it comes time to enter a freeway onramp. It gets a little harder to accelerate at speeds above 70mph.
Nissan, a company often associated with speedy products, has given the Frontier an engine with the most horsepower in its class. Coupled with the five-speed-manual transmission, the engine provides decent, but not spectacular, acceleration. And, while the Frontier is quiet at cruising speed, its engine howls under hard acceleration.
It still is not up to the level of compact trucks offered by General Motors, Ford or Dodge, but the 170-horsepower engine moves the Frontier closer.
Acceleration from our 2WD, our speed automatic equipped tester wasn't exactly neck-snapping: 0-60
mph in 9.6 seconds
The 170 horsepower 3.3 litre V6 engine is a bit more of an animal in the King Cab, providing for takeoffs with gusto. The extra weight and size of
the Crew Cab seems to have slowed the truck down a tad.
The Frontier's 11.4-second clocking from zero to 60 mph is fully 3.5 seconds behind the Toyota. Even accounting for the automatic transmission, this is a significant performance deficit.
However the Supercharged model got these comments.
The extra 40 horsepower and 45 foot pounds of Torque power provided by the supercharger over the
non-supercharged engine is immediately apparent. Just stepping on the gas you feel lots more power than the standard V6 and mashing the accelerator brings satisfaction to the enthusiast's soul.
"Been reading some reviews of the New CC. It has been getting bad marks. One review blasted Nissan for all the plastic parts and one blasted the new base price. Its now just as expensive as an ST."
And I apologize, when you said "New CC" I figured you were talking about the new SC model which as you showed is getting good reviews, I do know there have been complaints about power on the normally aspirated 3.3l.
Actually, the rear climate controls and audio controls as per Edmunds are not part of the leather comfort group, but the regular 60a comfort group and I did not include it in my pricing. Sure the ST has more stuff, but to talk about power rear window and such like there is a huge difference between the two is not accurate, what about the extra 2year/24,000 mile powertrain warranty you would have to buy for the ST, or the real roof rack you get on the CC instead of the station wagon rack on the ST, what about the locking tailgate? so I think these all wash out in the end and it is comparable. Here's the figures I came up with to most closely compare a loaded 4x2 CC SC to a 4x2 ST, these are per Edmunds, maybe I am reading something wrong, but it seems pretty simple to me.
Base MSRP = $21,665
Destination = $600
Sunroof = $800
5spd auto = $1,095
Prem. Spt grp. =$700
Conv. group = $750
Leather grp =$1,495
Cargo cage = $195
AM/FM 6disc = $510
LSD = $355
This comes out to the $28,165 where the CC with the SC loaded out 4x2 is $25,200. I was offering this as an illustration to discuss your claim that it is just as expensive as an ST, form post #36,
Again if this was not you, I apologize. So as you see I was not comparing a 4x2 with a 4x4, and actually I did not even include every option on the ST, which you say you did and came out with a lower price even adding more equipment? I am getting confused here.
Just to clear things up the rear climate and rear audio comes with the "high series floor console" Which would be the Comfort or Leather group.
The warranty you speak of is 5 Yrs on the drive train. The rest of the CC is the same as the ST 3/36. But yes the CC does have a better drive train warranty. Again this makes it difficult to compare apple to apples.
As far as the roof racks, the CC's is rated at 25 lbs more than the ST. Personally I like the rack but dislike the looks of the Air Dam plus it blocks the sun roof a bit.
As to the locking tailgate, I'm not sure what point your trying to make since Ford had a locking tailgate before Nissan.
There is a new WEB site that both Ford and Nissan are using that lets you compare any 2 vehicles. Here is some of the output from Nissan and Fords perspectives.
Here is what Nissan says is the advantages, This is the CC advantages when both vehicles have NO options.
* Msrp $216 less
* 24 months longer powertrain warranty
* 6 more torque (ft lb)
* 1 in larger diameter wheels
* 10 mm wider tires
* 15% lower profile tires
* Front fog lights
* Remote power locks
* Driver vanity mirror
* Cruise control
* Tilting adjustment steering wheel
* 2 more speakers
* Leather covered steering wheel
* Body color door mirrors
Ford lists the following points in their comparison. Fords WEB site did not filter the output so I picked them off the page myself.
Fuel Economy City (mpg) 17 15
Fuel Economy Highway (mpg) 21 18
Combined Fuel Economy (mpg) 19 16
* Battery Saver/Run Down Protection
* Child Safety Door Locks
* Cargo Area Power Outlet
* Delayed Power Retention System
* Driver Multi-Adjustable Power Seat
In my original Price comparison I did not know you included the Destination charges and I did not include the TCover because I did not know Nissan has a factory cover now. So I re-computed my prices of ALL options and this is the numbers I came up with. I did NOT include the $329 factory hitch on the Nissan cuz Ford does not have a factory hitch. (Although they do include the wire harness.)
My Comparison of Fully Loaded vehicles,
Nissan CC SC Supercharged $26,333
Ford ST $28,755
Difference $ 2,422 More for ST.
CC has a 24 Month longer Drive Train Warrantee.
CC has 25 lbs more capacity in the roof rack.
CC has radio controls on Steering wheel.
CC has a bigger cargo bed.
CC has 6 lbs more torque.
CC has 1" bigger wheels.
CC has a drivers vanity mirror.
ST has electric Sun Roof/Electric rear window.
ST has a bigger battery and alternator.
ST has 60/40 folding rear seat
ST has 7.1" more rear legroom.
ST has rear audio and climate controls.
ST has a power drivers seat.
ST has 340 lbs more payload.
ST has a Engine Block Heater (Cold Climates)
ST has a power steering cooler.
ST has a better Sound System.
ST has front tow rated hooks.
ST has rear reading lights.
Everything else looks equivalent or close to it.
So how would you put prices on this stuff. How much is an electric sun roof vs. a manual sun roof. Is the stuff on the ST worth $2,422 more? I wouldn't know how to value the differences.
So my original point was, "The New CC SC Supercharged Model costs about the same as a ST". Everyone will have to decide for themselves if its worth $2,422 more.
Looks like the supercharger is not helping gas mileage any. According to various sites it dropped significantly.
There's not much information on the new Nissan TCover but since its a one piece cover I assume you must remove the TCover to use the Bed extender. I also Assume the cover isn't a quick release and removable by one person like the ST's. Does anyone know if I'm correct?
While researching stuff on Edmunds I found that Nissan is still using the old high power airbags in the CC. Is that a misprint? Is Nissan still installing the old style airbags?
The Comparison data says the CC Child safety door locks are "Not Available" Is that a misprint? I thought all new vehicles had to have child safety door locks.
The other curious thing I can't find any mention of is tow hooks on the CC. But I guess since Nissan's never get stuck why bother. Is it true no Tow rated hooks?
I assume the Sun Roof is removable but what where do you put it? My old Toyota MR2 had a storage clip in the trunk. Is there a holder for the roof when its removed in the CC? Where do you put it?
I'm curious can someone explain?
I'm not sure I understand the tire thing, How is a tire 1" bigger, 10mm wider, have a 15% lower profile. What's a lower profile?
I know it can get confusing if you aren't actually sitting there looking at the vehicle, I did not know the ford had the locking tailgate, (one where you use a key right?) The CC does have tow hooks, well, not actually hooks, but a metal plate welded to the frame in the front that has a hole in it, does the same thing. I assume child safety locks means the switch on the side of the door that makes it to where you can only open it from the outside, if so the CC has that too. All Nissans have the Second generation airbags that have been detuned, even the 2000 CC had those. You would put the roof/cover behind the rear seat, it folds down and there is a little bit of space there where your tools are. The wheels information is talking about how There are 16" alloys on the SE CC, this would make a lower profile tire, basically you would measure from the top of the tire tread to where it meets the outer edge of the wheel, that is the profile, the larger the diameter of the wheel, the lower the profile. Lower prifile tires help with handling. Nissan does have the optional hard cover, but I have not seen one yet, I did not include that in my pricing and I have no idea how that would work with the extender unless it was the type that lifted up in the back. I think this is a good lesson that while the internet is a good source for generating general information, until you actually see the vehicles in person, take the info with a grain of salt.
Yep the ST's TCover is keyed to the ignition key.
>a metal plate welded to the frame in the front
>that has a hole in it, does the same thing.
Is it rated as a tow hook ie to pull the CC out of mud or sand or just to tow/secure on the street.
>All Nissans have the Second generation airbags
>that have been detuned, even the 2000 CC had
Neither Nissan or Edmunds WEB sites list GenII airbags. Nissan looses a browny point for having the wrong info on their own web site. But I'm sure we could find a few on ford's too. :-(
>The wheels information is talking about how
>there are 16" alloys on the SE CC
Arrg, Nissan's web site says 17" wheels. If they are 16" then they are the same as the ST.
Oh well time to go home.
I don't mean a lock for a tonneau cover. I mean actually in the tailgate itslef there is a key lock, when locked you cannot lower the tailgate.
The SC has 17" wheels, SE 16", XE 15".
I still haven't seen a ST with one so I don't know how they would look with a cap but you can look at mahimahi's website to see a couple of CCs w/caps that look great!
Perhaps it's time you & Mahimahi take your advice & actually look at the other vehicle so that your information is accurate. The ST has & has always had a locking tailgate (yes, one that uses the ignition key). The ST's tailgate IS an F-150 flareside unit with ST trim.
I've had my ST for 2 months & am very pleased with it. The power rear window is a feature that I wouldn't have guessed that I'd enjoy as much as I do. It vents fresh air quieter & less obtrusive than side windows or the sunroof.
Did you experience the value of a power rear window before determining that obscuring one with a cap is a better option? I understand your point that a cap is more important to you & it's a non-issue to you. However, the ST's window is such a welcome feature that I'd never give it up, even for an attractive cap like your CC has.
>say the Frontier isn't equiped with these items
>or are they just not listed.
The air bags are listed but Ford says de-powered or GenII air bags, Nissan simply says air bag. I guess its just bad information in the new comparison tool that both Ford and Nissan are using. Some of the other options say not available and some say optional. You should look at the new tool that Ford and Nissan is using. They both use data from the same company but of course they format it so it looks best for each.
Opps cncman it looks like I missed a problem with my base pricing. Nissan has removed the following from the standard equipment and made it part of the "Super Charger Value Package".
Steering-Wheel-Mounted Audio Controls
Premium AM/FM/CD (6-Disc) Audio System
You get a Cassette as Standard Equipment.
Vehicle Security System
Tilt Steering Column
Leather Seating Surfaces
Flip-Up Glass Sunroof
The base MSRP price of the CC SC is 21,449 but if you want any of the above add $1,549 MSRP. So in my base comparison in post #44 which came from Nissans WEB site you have to delete any of the above that I listed. See what I mean about how hard it is to compare apples to apples.
I would love for my cap to tie into my electric locks!! That would be bonus!! Oh-well; I should have searched farther when I was in the market. :-(
Ziggyman - I guess I have to ask why it is such as value? Do you use it for any particular reason or just because it is there? My rear windows only get used because my kids play with them. In the summer I use air Cond., in winter I use heat. In between I use the sunroof. On the highway it is to noisy to keep windows open.. in the city, it is too polluted...in the country it is too dusty for anything but the sunroof. So no, I can't see why I would use it more than once a year. That is not to say you or somebody else wouldn't have very valid reasons.
As to why I made the comment in the first place? Some of you ST'ers have made it a point say the CC doesn't have one - that is all.
I can give you many many reasons why I would much rather have a cap than a power(vs manual) rear window. The biggest one - and only one I will give - is storage. I bought a four door truck because I wanted a truck and I needed the four doors because of the kids; or I couldn't have bought the truck as an only vehicle. With the two kids using the rear seats I need lots of dry storage to store all the things you bring with you when you have kids and travel. The cap gives me this - the "power" window does not. Fordst in the past has given some pretty could points on the hard cover, but the storage issue size ruled for me. When things are higher than the box side, or you have lots of "dry" cargo - a hard cover doesn't cut it; therefore a "power" window is useless to me and others in the same situation.
I don't follow your logic that simply because I don't remember a locking tailgate I haven't looked at the vehicle, I can't speak for Mahi, but I seem to remember him saying he looked at it too.
Yea, you could go on and on finding stuff and still end up more confused!