Frontier vs Ranger - III

volfy

I appreciate it, cncman. I live and work now in southwest Houston. Which dealership are you with?

cygnusx1

CT, pretty much everything you mentioned can be said for a most trucks. In every truck I've ever had (excpet my new Frontier) had those black fender flares that soaked up wax. It's impossible to get the wax out of those things. Sliding rear windows - I think any truck that has one pretty much screams "Open for Business". So that's definitely not a Ranger specific thing. Spare tire crank - sucked on every truck I've ever owned. Auto tranny - some are ok. My 4.3 S-10 was pretty good and so far the Nissan is good. I happen to like auto trannies in 4x4's personally so the slush box has never really bothered me on any truck I've had. And as for mpg - the Nissan is no miser either. 17 mpg seems pretty much standard for around town driving. Sometimes more, sometimes less

cthompson21

Well, you're getting better economy with your Frontier than I get with my Ranger.

I get 14-15mpg all city. It's about 17-18mpg with mixed city and highway. I can just eek out 20mpg all highway when setting the cruise around 65.

One thing is really nice is that my mpg barely moves when I'm trailering my sleds and gear weighing around 2000lbs. It drops only about 1mpg. I'm looking to get a solid tonneau and a aerodynamic cover for my trailer. I should probably get that 1mpg back.

I'm getting a Superchip next summer after warranty is out. I've heard of people having really good results with both power and economy gains. It should sure up the slushbox too.

cygnusx1

Does adding a chip increase the "wear and tear" on the engine? I know of some folks who have added them, but it always seems like within two years or so their cars/trucks have like major breakdowns. Could be coincidental though. I'm also planning on doing some mods someday when my warranty expires, but I've got a ways to go since I've only had my truck 6 months and have about 6k miles on it. Part of me says to forget the warranty and just go ahead with mods, and then I chicken out when I really start thinking about it.

cygnusx1

Man, not this has anything to do with out topic really, but I just had to mention this. I was reading one of the topics in the Smart Shopper conference and there is a guy who bought a Saturn for like say, $15,000. A few days later Saturn called him up and said they forgot to add on like $1,600 or something. They gave him the choice of paying it or returning the car so he returned it. He said that Saturn has this policy that all of their cars (in each particular model) have to be sold at the same price. In this case they under-charged him and said it was thier policy to collect the $1,500 which they forgot.

What would you all have done? He seemed like he returned it due to moral/ethical reasons, but he was still P.O.'ed.

cthompson21

A Superchip advances timing and spark to develop more power using high octance fuel. Hence, you're regulated to a premium only diet for your truck. It also firms up and adjusts shift points to be a bit more agressive.

You can also have them custom burned for $30 to work with and enhance the mods you currently have on your truck.

I have heard of a few rare instances of some problems, but I haven't heard anything Ranger or 4L related. Usually, they're newer model year cars or drivetrains. The OHV 4L has been out for years, so they've had pleanty of time to perfect the programming.

cthompson21

I say screw 'em. Written contract. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

Do you think that dealer would be calling them if they made the mistake in the other direction?

I don't think so!

I don't think stupidity should be rewarded.

cygnusx1

What's diff between adding a chip and yanking your chip and sending it off to be reprogrammed? I hear radio ads all the time where I live about sending your chip into X company to improve performance.

mahimahi

Ct,
I don't have the 'black flares' because I have the SE but I do have a little wax "collector". Those with the Frontier will know where I'm talking about...it's that vent plate between the hood and windshield. It's black and poreous, oh as are the door handles!

I'm not going to create a controversy on the 'chip' but irronically I had engine(throttle body, intake sensors) and transmission problems when I and a Hypertec chip to my '94 S-10 SS. I also replaced the pulleys and had a K&N filtercharger along with dual exh. My transmission had to be replaced at 39K miles...now it may be a chip related or just GM related. Probably the latter, but I'll never know. With each different vehicle I get the less and less I modify it. I think that most of the OEM parts are the best. Gosh I can remember with my '87 Z-24 I replaced the spark plugs with platinums and it felt like it ran better but then the engine was running rough so to cure that problem I dumped in Duralube...no help. What did help was the AC Delco OEM plugs, restored the running perfectly. Maybe it's just my luck with GM vehicles. One more thing, when I had my Acura Legend I used to pay $12 for windshield blades(just refills)evnthough I could have gone to Wal Mart and bought 3 pairs for that price they lasted two years down here in FL. My personal opinion is that some mods are ok but, these computer controlled vehicles don't have the lenacy that the non-computer controlled vehicles once did. I would do things like exhaust tuning, lift kits, changing out gears but for the engine I myself would leave it alone.

cthompson21

You'd have to yank your whole computer to have it reprogrammed. Or, you'd have to hook up your truck up to a diagnostic machine to have the computer flashed. I doubt any manufacturer makes a removable computer chip which can be reprogrammed. The Superchip "piggybacks" onto the computer via a diagnostic slot and overrides the stock program with what the chip specifies.

I guess it would be convenience of installation. They ship it to you, and you just plug it in. Also, you can always revert to the stock program by simply yanking the chip. Not so with a computer reprogram. This might be an issue for a truck under warranty.

I'd also prefer the expertise and experience of a reputable company. I've rarely ever heard anything negative about their product.

cthompson21

I've got wax collectors too. They're right beneath the windshield. Take a look at those PITA's when you see a Ranger.

I think that some people over mod their vehicles. The engine might be able to take it, but some other part of the vehicle might be pressed more than its designed tolerance and break.

Personally, I think that some free breathing work (intake & exhaust) and a chip, which just exploits the advantages of high octane fuel, should be fine for just about any vehicle.

Beyond that mods give marginal performance gains at higher costs, are less reliable, are more complicated, and may harm your vehicle.

I'll probably add a chip, a hard tonneau, and some 31" or so tires to my truck in the next year and be done. I'm also thinking about an in-dash MP3 player. I'll do that in the car first, though.

volfy

I hear ya about the those textured-to-retain-wax black plastic body claddings.

I like the fact Nissan paints the side rearview mirrorsm, fender flares, and lower front bumper body color on SE Frontiers. Too bad they stopped making regular ride height 4x2 SE. I did the next best thing - I painted them myself. I also like to "debadge" all my vehicles for the very same reason - they catch wax and snag wash cloths.

cncman

OK,
I just saw the pics of the 01 mazda and more pics of the 01 ranger, the other colors do look better than the black one I saw. I will say this, the truck seems more balanced, beefier and more in proportion. The previous body style (esp. the reg cab) looked like the a and b pillars and roof were added as an after thought, kind of like the conning tower in a sub. Last generation I liked the mazda front end better than the ranger, it looked classy. Now the Mazda's grille accentuates the half closed eyes look of the truck, the top of the headlights should be a little higher than the top of the grille, on the picture of the yellow ranger regular cab you can really see this, and if you compare it to a face, it looks kind of stunned. I think the manufacturers are trying too hard to make something really different, I think they should just slow down and clean everything up and work more on the mechanics and interiors of the trucks, good job to ford though for the new 4.0 and the upcoming 4cylinder.

volfy

CT,
That's cool! I have less problem with "smooth" badges like the blue oval. They tend not to be as much s wax catcher. The worst ones are the raised chromed letters.

mahimahi,
Yes, that reminds me. I need to remove the factory body graphics from my truck soon. I peeled off the T-O-Y-O-T-A on the tail gate of my Tacoma (RIP) about a year after I bought it. Already they left an "imprint" I could see in the right angle of light. I'd better do it on my Forntier before the graphics leave a ugly color & shininess difference.

cthompson21

I've got the 3.73s and an engine with loads of torque, so I'm not worried about needing to regear going up to 31" tires.

I too like seeing more rubber than rim on a 4x4.

cygnusx1

Doesn't that new Harley F-150 have 20 inch wheels? The pic I saw was like a massive rim and just a teeny bit of tire. Of course I seriously doubt anyone would take that thing off road anyway even though it's 4x4.

mahimahi

volfy,
The reason I haven't pulled the decal off yet is because I'm worried that it will leave behind the "imprint" of the decal. I think the manufacturers don't waint until the paint "hardens" completely which could take weeks, before they trow the stickers on which I believe contributes to the impression left behind. But since I used to detail cars and boats I know how to 'wet' sand so if it does leave behind an impression I will just 'wet' sand the whole truck. Who knows maybe I'll get lucky!

CT,
yeah you shouldn't have a problem with those gears. I think I would even be fine with 31's too. But the thing is I would have to change rims(I have the 16") which I might still do. I don't know , about a month ago I saw an Xterra at the mall with 32" tires on the stock 15" XE rims...didn't look bad I think he turned his torsion bars up to get the little clearence that he needed...I wa checking it out when mall security pulled up and asked me for help, so I left.

mahimahi

Nice thoughts...I was looking at Tirerack's tire diameter comparision chart(it's numbers are similar to yours). I was looking for an excuse to go to different rims, but since this truck is a lease it makes more sense to just go to a set of 265's(I would rather have the extra hieght). I really don't mind the Generals they work great in the water and not too bad in mild offroad trails. But I like the BF's better and SAM's usually has good prices(I just bought a set of 30x9.50R15LT for my girlfriend's Passport for under $335 incl. taxes).

scape2

Just as an FYI for those of you who are thinking about changing tires. Your MPG will go down, you may have more road noise, ride will change.
And for those of you with new trucks. Discount tire/America's tire will take your tires in as a trade and give you a deep discount on new tires. I dropped my Firejunkers on my Ranger about 4 months after I purchased the truck. They had about 5-6K on them and they were more than happy to give me a fair price (at least at that time anyway. This was over 2 years ago now.).

mahimahi

Thanks for the info Vince...if I do change tires, It'll be when I NEED to, since this is a lease. But your right about the mpg, as horrible as it is now(avg. 17.5 of course that's with the A/C on all the time morning, night, whenever), I can't imagine it would get worse. But your right it would unless I changed gears(which ain't happening to this truck.

Hey hows that Z-Max doing? I might try it too

scape2

Update on Zmax!! It works. With just one tank my Average went from 19MPG to 21.6 I can't believe it either. This is just one tank and I am going to continue to take mileage readings. So far the product has done what it said. As I have said before the 4.0 isn't known for its refinement nor smoothness. It has calmed my engine and it does run smoother. A friend and I went out this last weekend into the MT Hood National Forest to do some hiking and he even noticed a change. So far I can recommend this product. Although, you do have to use it every 6months or two oil changes. I have to compute whether this is really worth it at 40bucks a shot..

cncman

Man, that is kind of expensive vince, let us know.
There is also this stuff called the force, it is an additive that goes through the air cleaner, it removes deposits, burns cleaner and improves fuel economy. I used it in my old toyota work car a year ago and it really helped.

I saw another 01 ranger at the ford dealer, it is an edge, what exactly is that package?? Good looking blue color though, but it did not look any different than the other one I saw.

mahimahi

cncman,
I posted an article on Driveway that talks about the differences in the packages. Just go back a few posts o get the username and password.

cncman

Hmmm,
well pretty quiet in here lately, I guess we don't have much to say if we are not mudslinging! Oh well, just some observations on the 01 frontiers if anyone is interested, Sales have seemed steady compared to the old style, one thing I have noticed, it seems like more folks are interested in the desert runner than the crew cab, before we couldn't harldy give a DR away, and the crew cabs were scarce, I am going to drive the new ranger at my friend's Ford dealership maybe this weekend, he says they are alot nicer inside too. Said he has been getting mixed reaction to the new style, some going crazy over it, and some saying ford screwed up, this is the same thing with the 01 frontiers, oh well, I also heard that for the 95 maxima and it did OK, and the same for the 98-00 frontiers.
And the 2000 maxima, all have seem to recover, maybe it just takes time for them to get on the road and people to get used to them.

gooba

I am still not a fan of the new look on the Frontier.I guess it is the front end that gets me.It looks like they wanted a built in brush guard look.I would prefer a bolt on.I can imagine somebody wanting to put a bolt on brush guard on the 01.Really ugly then.

scape2

Can't wait for Edmunds to have a shootout between the new Ranger, Frontier, S-10 and Tacoma. Send your mails to Edmunds and lets pressure them...

xena1a

Yes, Edmunds is WAY overdue for a compact pickup shootout. I would also like to see them toss the Dakota into the mix, just for the heck of it...

volfy

Agree about Edmunds needing a compact truck shootout. There have been enough new model intros to warrant a comparo.

Not sure about the Dakota though. It's a fine truck for what it is, but a V8 Dakota is just not quite in the same league as the V6's of the others. I find it interesting that some folks compare the Dakota to the Tundra while others find Dakota competitive with the likes of the welterweight Tacoma. If you've ever seen a 4x2 Dakota parked next to a 4x2 Tacoma, you'll know what I mean.

cygnusx1

They need to find a Dakota that will run first! ;-)

just kidding.

xena1a

Yeah, the Dakota is probably a bit of a stretch to be included in a compact comparison. I'll admit that mine really feels more like a scaled-down 1/2 ton than an oversized compact. It's definitely an in-betweener...

scape2

I vote no Dakota...

obyone

with the minis than with the full size. Don't you think....or maybe they can do a comparison between the Dak and the Tun which would actually be closer.

cncman

In all fairness, I do not know how good an edmunds
truck review would be, they really seem to be more into cars than trucks, the always complain about the truck like handling and numb steering in the trucks. I would liek to see a publication from truck enthusiasts like truck trend or the likes I would listen to them more anyway.

mahimahi

I got to tell you man, I went to the Nissan dealer today to have my oil changed. I tought that I would give the '01 a try again...it's all the wrong! I know you sell these things and I'm not trying to sway your opinion rather, point out some of my dilikes of it. My biggest complaint is the silver spay-painted plastic A/C controls and accents. In the magazine articles they look like brushed aluminum, but in person it looks like they used Rust Oleum. I mean you can still see the 'plastic grain' through the paint. The painted Flares might grow on me, personally they're quite excessive for tires that are 8"-9" wide at best and only 30" tall, but the black ones on a 2wd SE make the truck a true competitor with the new "catfish truck" as the ugliest things since the release of the Aztek. I'm still curious if the rear seat on the CC folds(I read a magazine article that said it does). Anyway, good luck with your sales, maybe the full size will be out soon. BTW, we've had the '01's for a few months now and I haven't seen one on the road yet(I live in Tampa/St Pete where their are over 1 million people).

mahimahi

I appologize cncman, that should be an XE 2wd not an SE.



If any of you guys that have XE's that might want to buy my driving/fog lights just e-mail me: [email protected] There's nothing wrong with them. I bought the truck in March. I just don't need tham I'm going to do something different in those spots.

cthompson21

Edmunds should sponsor us to do a shootout!

I'd let everyone know which truck gots the guts and which is a sissified highway commuter! Screw the cupholders and a soft ride too!

They be trucks, not no luxo-cruisers!



On a halfway serious note, there's no best truck for everyone out there. I don't think you'd hear a word of complaint if someone gave me any one of the trucks out there now. They're all pretty good. Some just do one or two things a wee bit better than the others. I guess that is what makes these forums so fun.

cncman

Mahi;
Doesn't bother me, everyone has their own opinion,
Some of the color/package combinations I see I do like and some I don't. Until all of the 2000's are gone you won't see many 01's out there, I am out of 2000's and we have been selling about the same amount of 01's now.

CT;
Might not be a bad idea to have us do it, don't know if that is professional journalism or not.
If you know a little about decision sciences, what you are saying really goes to the root of the discussions, there is a mental list of advantages a buyer makes about the vehicle they are looking at, (safety, comfort, reliability, towing, appearance etc.) and each of these is mentally assigned a score based on what is important to the individual. So for me, relibility and comfort and economy were at the top of my list. And I gave the most weight to those factors and chose the frontier, someone like Vince puts the highest priority on apearance, torque etc. things that don't matter much to me, so this is why there is no one truck right for everyone, and why some folks aren't swayed by certain arguments. So who's right? We all are! At least for us and our individual decisions.

cygnusx1

If somebody gave you a recent model S-10 you'd probably complain. :-) One of the more recent
articles I read in one of the truck magazines slammed the S-10 and asked why it was even considered a 4x4. Apparently it didn't do too well in the off-road tests. With that said, my 1991 S-10 was pretty much a champ off road (clearance sucked, but the 4 low *really* worked well). But it seems lately that the S-10's have horrible reliability records and have been slammed for their off road performance. They look cool and all, but when it came time to buy a new truck I pretty much left Chevy out of the mix when I was comparison shopping.

cthompson21

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think that when an automotive journalist writes a review on a vehicle, he should qualify his opinion with his own personal likes/dislikes about types of vehicles in general. It will give us an idea of where the opinion is coming from.

Take Edmunds for example. They're obviously 'car' people writing reviews on trucks. They complain about things which are just inherent attributes of trucks because their views are based on likes/dislikes about cars.

cthompson21

I wouldn't complain about somebody giving me an S10. A ZR2 is a great looking compact truck. I'm not fond of its interior, but it's livable. I don't really need crazy amounts of ground clearance. Most of my off-road activity is either light trails or involves lots of snow. Most reliability issues I've heard of are related to the interior. The 4.3 is a proven engine with tons of torque for my towing needs.

It's just when I think of what else I can get for 25K instead of a loaded ZR2 that really turns my head.

The S10 wouldn't be my first choice, but I still think it's a decent truck.

BTW, the new engine lineup coming in the S10 sounds like a real killer. The top level engine is a 4.5L I6 with 250hp.

Suddently the Toyota's 190hp 3.4L V6 is starting to sound really weak in the wake of everybody else's new offerings.

cygnusx1

Yeah, the new S-10 will definitely open up can of whoop-[non-permissible content removed] as far as speed and torque go. I also read somewhere that the possibility of a V-8 in the S-10 is a dead issue. I'm not sure why, probably due to CAFE standards or something. GM already has enough gas guzzling full size trucks and making the S-10 a V8 would probably kill them.
But like I said, my old one was a really good truck. It lost a little of it's pep in the later years no matter how much money I dumped into tune ups, timing adjustments etc. But it still got the job done. One thing about it I don't miss is the ride and the wind noise. My Nissan is so smooth and quiet that looking back I wonder how I ever dealt with the S-10's noise. There was no way you could have the radio on and carry on a conversation at the same time, especially going down the Interstate.

scape2

The new S-10 due out in late 2001 I have heard is supposed to be about the size of a Dakota. GM is coming out will all new engines also. They are going to a straight 6 overhead cammer of sorts, a new 4cyl too. Don't count GM out yet. They are not rolling over and dieing in the compact truck segment. Even now the Vortec 4.3 is no joke. It puts a a healthy 245ft/lbs of torque and about 195hp. Don't underestimate the ZR2 either, they are everybit as good as a TRD.. Granted the S-10 has quality issues, but performance wise its no slouch.
I saw a new Toyota Tacoma, YUCK!! What the heck is with the huge chrome grill??? Tacoma just lost its styling advantages in my book.

obyone

that potential owners don't get it confused with the Tundra...

cncman

Well guys,
I know this a little off topic, but there really hasn't been much of a topic lately anyway so....

Here's what's around the corner for Nissan,
The new Z car will debut in the (I think detroit)
January auto show. Rear wheel drive, V6 just under 300hp for in the mid $20's!

Soon there will be an all new altima, with a 4 cylinder around 180hp and an optional V6 similar to the current 222hp VQ in the maxima, word I have from some high ups that have seen official drawings a few months back is WOW! Think something along the lines of an Audi A6. There will be a period of about 6-10 months where there will be almost no reason to buy a maxima as it won't change until after the altima debut, then the maxima will be built on the new altima platform, but bigger and with a V6 in the neighborhood of 265 hp.

It looks like there will be about 12 months where Nissan will not have a van as Nissan has not decided what to do when the quest/villager joint effort with ford ends. Probably something based on the renault scenic.

Full size truck;
Defintiely a V8 probably borrowed from Infiniti,
Nissan says it will not be a 7/8ths full size truck like the tundra, definitely all the way full sized. Nissan still says they do not expect to sell a tremendous amount of these, because ford/chevy/dodge has that market wrapped up, but they want it out there. Also this will be the platform for the new Full size SUV with three rows of seats in it.

Xterra,
The smyrna plant is still working double shifts to build these things and the crew cabs, possibility that next year they will offer the SC option.
A friend I know at a Honda dealer said he went to a honda meeting a little while ago and the big talk there was what they were going to build to compete with the Xterra.

BTW;
I have had the same tires on my forntier since it was new, they are the firestone wilderness HT's not the ones that were recalled, they have 25,000 miles on them and, I admit, have been pretty good, and don't even have much wear on them, still I would feel more comfortable with another brand, what do you guys recommend? I have the 15" wheels,
and I am mainly interested in long life, quietness, and grip on wet surfaces, I don't need or want any off roaders or mudders. Anyone think I can get a trade in on these? They never even had a patch in them.

gooba

Thanks for the new information.It is always nice to get updated information.
On the tires,I would recommend Goodyear.Pick which model works for you.They,at least stand behind them.I have has a few that peeled the tread and caused body damage.They replaced the tire and repaired the damage with no hassle.

cthompson21

Sounds like the Z may have a bright future. It's smart of Nissan to go with the full-size and not the smaller scale. It'll have to get out and establish itself for a while to see some success.

It seems like Nissan is moving each of their passenger sedans up a notch with the Sentra to take the place of the Alt and so on...

I could really go for a Max providing they get an independent rear suspension, some revised styling on the rear end, and that 265hp engine you're talking about. It'd be the perfect replacement for my SVTour in a few years.

I've been putting insane amounts of miles on my Tour. I got it about 1yr 3mn ago. It's already at 26K. The life of an auditor is not good on cars!!!


I really, really like BFG's. The ones on my car are great (but being high performance Z-rated rubber, they don't last too long). I'll probably get some BFG's for my truck in the next year or so to replace the Firestones. I'm kinda waiting to see if they'll get recalled, as the truck gets very few miles usually at much less than highway speeds.

wdoyle9752

I have a 2000 4x2 KC 4cyl with the same tires stock. Since my truck is used for all on road only I bought Pirelli P400 Touring Tires from tirerack.com (T-rated, little more than my truck needs), but they drive lots smoother, they grip better on hard turns and acceleration. I've always run Pirelli's on my 95 Lexus SC300 5/spd manual and had good success.

cncman

Thanks for the tips guys,
Doyle;
How much did those cost? are they just as quiet?

cygnusx1

I recommed either BF Goodrich or Michelin. If you need a decent combination highway/trail tire...Michelin makes quite a few and they're really good. BFG AT's are the way to go as far as an off-road tire that's top of the line as well as a great highway tire. And just an interesting side note - Michelin now makes BFG tires. BFG hasn't actually made their own tires for over a decade. Stay away from Goodyear Wranglers. Just do a search on them, like at tirerack.com or something and see what I mean.

volfy

I think I mentioned to you before that I traded in my OEM tires with the paint markers still on them right after I bought the truck.

I went with Daytona HR in the OEM size 215/65HR15, mostly because the tire dealer gave a good deal on these. Otherwise, I would definitely have gotten BFGoodrich, either Comp TA +4 or Touring TA +4. BFG is about the best bang for the buck. Michelins and Pirellis are excellent but tend to be pricey. I like Yokohama as well. I hear their new Avid line of tires are very good.

If you are staying on tarmac 99.9% of the time, get passenger car tires instead of LTs. The load ratings are the same for the same size tire, and the NVH levels are much more agreeable with a P tire.

Trade-in shouldn't be a problem at most tire shops. At the same time I traded my Frontier OEM tires, I got a $10/tire credit for a set of old BFG Comp TA+4 (off a VW GTI) with ~35% tread life left. Good luck.