Performance Oriented Factory Tuner Automobiles

rockylee

I want this car forum to include the Lincoln MKZ, Cadillac CTS, and CTS-V, STS, STS-V, Lincoln MKS, BMW 335i, M3, M5 G35, VW Passat, Audi A4, S4, Holden-Pontiac Grand Prix/G8, etc etc etc. since the MKZ and CTS-V weren't allowed in the
"entry-level performance luxury sedan" forum :confuse:

Rocky

rockylee

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Lincoln/review/2007-lincoln-mkz-awd-road-test/- 2202/

Rocky

rockylee

I've never driven a BMW 335i, but based on the road tests it has superb performance. It gets pretty expensive fast when you start clicking the options buttons but I assume most buyers will be in the $44-$46K range with one. I personally think a no i-drive, no navigation, no active steering unit, with a manual transmission, sports package, heated seats, is the best value for the driving enthusiast.

The Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lincoln MKZ, and both current and 08' CTS offer the 335i its stiff est competition. The Infiniti G35 with its 306 RWD horsepower offers the driver 80-90% of the performance for thousands less.

The Lincoln MKZ, is another FWD vehical alternative to the 335i. You get a beautiful interior with lots of gadgets including a segment leading 14-speaker THX II certified DVD-A surround sound system. You also get the only ventilated seats in the segment if you don't count the Saab 9-5. The MKZ fully loaded with AWD is priced at $37K which is still $2K cheaper than a stripped bargain basement BMW 335i.

The Acura TL Type-S is another vehical option for consumers to consider if they have to drive in the snow. It's FWD drivetrain along with a set of snow shoes will help. The TL Type-S also comes standard with a manual transmission.

The Cadillac CTS, is still a hot selling alternative. It can be equipped with a 3.6 "High Feature" V-6 and be teamed to a 6-speed manual transmission. it also can get into the $40's when you start clicking the option box. The CTS-V is a 6.0 LS-2 V-8 with 400 hp. It comes with only one option sport shocks otherwise it's fully loaded. If you cross shop a fully loaded 335i to a CTS-V the "V" will only be $1K more MSRP. But everybody knows you will be able to purchase the "V" thousands cheaper than a fully loaded 335i where BMW will be asking at or near MSRP. The 2008' Cadillac CTS is rumored to have anywhere from 280-320hp. The new and improved 3.6 V-6 will finally have Delphi's direct injection system. The 2008-2009' Cadillac CTS-V has been rumored to have either the 7.0 LS-7 V-8 with 500-600 hp. The other engine is a supercharged or turbocharged 4.6 Northstar pushing north of 500hp. When both of these cars come on line they are expected to exceed BMW, because GM engineers were told to exceed the BMW 3 series and if you've seen video footage such as I have you will see BMW's following the Caddy test mule around the track.

So feel free to add any comments, disagreements, agreements, and I promise to not make it personal.

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjWvZshIfBY :shades:

Rocky

rockylee

BTW I notice you have been predicting the demise of the 3 series for about 1+ years now. Hasn't happened yet, much to your chagrin, I'm sure.

It wasn't necessary the demise of the BMW 3 series kdshapiro, but rather something that will exceed what all BMW's do very well. They are the benchmark. Over a year ago I was reading Cadillac, was testing the new CTS mule to the BMW 330i. I'm sure they had a wrench throwin' into their plans when BMW, revealed the new and improved Twin-Turbocharged 335i. If my memory serves me correct the new CTS, was suppose to come out this fall but obviously the new 335i, changed those plans and thus caused a year delay.

Rocky

rockylee

My biggest concern for y'all MKZ band wagoners is that have y'all actually went out and try the other competitors like the 3er, IS, G and TL? If you have and still think that the MKZ is an worthy competitor in this class then we certainly welcome that inputs. However, the argument that the MKZ is the most nimble Lincoln currently available does not sit well with most of us.

Well thats part of the problem. Just because some of y'all don't think the MKZ belongs in the entry-level luxury performance segment y'all went out of your way to band it from the board.

I brought up the Cadillac CTS-V as a BMW 335i competitor and gave a argument for it and y'all found every excuse in the world to not have it allowed on the forum also.

What I'm coming up with is some of y'all will find a reason/excuse for any vehical that rivals or exceeds a BMW's performance and/or luxury and ban it from the forum.

That's fine. If you want to have a forum with all like minded "BMW Lovers" only people then I suppose you succeeded. Y'all only allow competition when it's clear the BMW trumps it. Wow, that sounds like fun. It's like playing poker and stacking the deck. I and other posters aren't afraid of a good debate.

Happy Posting

Rocky

rockylee

I saw some think it is a entry-lux performance sedan. If the A4 is a entry-lux level performance sedan, then a MKZ, is clearly also. The S4, IMHO is a entry-lux performance sedan but at over $50K it is expensive. If people don't consider it as such then Audi, really doesn't offer anything in the segment. Is the VW Passat, a entry-level lux sedan ? Well it has enough power and has luxurious enough interior IMHO to be considered. It will smoke a Audi A4, in a race and is one of the most solid cars on the road today that isn't ultra-expensive either.

So the question remains is both the Volkswagon Passat, and Audi A4, performance oriented luxury sedans ?

I say YES at least to the Passat. I'm undecided on the Audi A4 :confuse:

Rocky

louiswei

Rocky, I am going to lay it out for you this one last time and if you still don't get it, then so be it. I am not afraid of a good debate, I am just sick and tired of a debate that goes nowhere.

1. The Entry Lux Performance Sedan board is not a "BMW Lovers" board. Me myself is not a "BMW Lover". Although it's hard for you to believe according to my posts the last couple days but if you see my debates with blueguydotcom earlier this year you'll believe me. Also, if I am a "BMW Lover" like you stated why would I go for a IS350 instead of the 330i. Makes no sense, right?

2. The reasons why MOST OF US think that the CTS-V and MKZ don't belong in the other board are DIFFERENT. MKZ failed to qualify because it does not meet the performance part of the requirement. No one would deny that the Lincoln offers plenty of standard and optional luxury but it is NOT a performance sedan. Is it faster than most other 4 doors on the road? Yes. But is it a performance-oriented sedan? NO. The ES350 does not make the list due to the same reason. However, if you want to debate which one is better between the MKZ and ES350 I'd love to do so.

3. CTS-V failed to qualify because it is a factory-tuned special model based on its entry level sedan. Same reason why the M, AMG and Audi's S and RS are not qualified as well. Of course, it'll be unfair to Cadillac if we include the M, AMG, S and RS but not the -V. However, we agreed that all the special models listed above should not be included in the list so in no way we are discriminating against the CTS-V. Also, you can make a case that the loaded 335i cost almost as much as the CTS-V but the BOTTOM LINE is that if someone besides YOU wants a base 335i, he/she can have it for under $40K. On the other hand, it is NOT POSSIBLE to get a CTS-V for under $50K.

4. Employee discount is totally irrelavent in a discussion. Since you work for GM you'll be able to get a GM car for less. Same applies for someone works for BMW and Toyota. He or she will be able to get into a 335i or IS350 for less than you and me. Since you want to compare cars fair and square then let's make it as equal as possible. Bring in the GM employee discount into discussion can only damage your credibility and show your bias toward GM.

5. Members in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance. I will use the IS350 example to back up my statement. When the IS was introduced late last year it was consider the straight line performance benchmark of the class. It totally destroyed the then 330i in the 0-60 times (sounds familiar? Hint: CTS-V). However, as you can see from top of the other board, the IS350 was still listed as one of the cars on the list. Even though many members have issues with IS's "relatively" soft suspension and the unavailability of a manual tranny but that's subjective to debates. The bottom line is we in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance.

Hope that'll clear things out a bit for you.

rockylee

Rocky, I am going to lay it out for you this one last time and if you still don't get it, then so be it. I am not afraid of a good debate, I am just sick and tired of a debate that goes nowhere.

Okay, fair enough.

1. The Entry Lux Performance Sedan board is not a "BMW Lovers" board. Me myself is not a "BMW Lover". Although it's hard for you to believe according to my posts the last couple days but if you see my debates with blueguydotcom earlier this year you'll believe me. Also, if I am a "BMW Lover" like you stated why would I go for a IS350 instead of the 330i. Makes no sense, right?

I don't know ?....Perhaps you got a deal you couldn't refuse on the IS 350 ?....Perhaps you wanted a little gadgetology to go along with straightline performance ???.....blueguydotcom, from what I gather is a true blue BMW lover. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

2. The reasons why MOST OF US think that the CTS-V and MKZ don't belong in the other board are DIFFERENT. MKZ failed to qualify because it does not meet the performance part of the requirement. No one would deny that the Lincoln offers plenty of standard and optional luxury but it is NOT a performance sedan. Is it faster than most other 4 doors on the road? Yes. But is it a performance-oriented sedan? NO. The ES350 does not make the list due to the same reason. However, if you want to debate which one is better between the MKZ and ES350 I'd love to do so.

It fails to meet the performance part ? It will nose out a Acura TL, Audi A4, in acceleration. I'd love to debate the ES350 vs. MKZ, anytime.

3. CTS-V failed to qualify because it is a factory-tuned special model based on its entry level sedan.

What in the hell do you call the BMW 335i ? It is nothing more than a factory-tuned BMW 330i or 328i. I honestly can't see the difference. It has to have a M or V label to be considered factory tuned. That's a bunch of B.S. IMHO louiswei.

Same reason why the M, AMG and Audi's S and RS are not qualified as well. Of course, it'll be unfair to Cadillac if we include the M, AMG, S and RS but not the -V. However, we agreed that all the special models listed above should not be included in the list so in no way we are discriminating against the CTS-V. Also, you can make a case that the loaded 335i cost almost as much as the CTS-V but the BOTTOM LINE is that if someone besides YOU wants a base 335i, he/she can have it for under $40K. On the other hand, it is NOT POSSIBLE to get a CTS-V for under $50K.

Okay, but it's like cheating because BMW, is a "options" company. Most car company's would be looked down upon if they did this type of buisness. Acura, offers like two trim packages for each model to keep it simple. This is the direction GM, is headed but not quite as severe as Acura.

Question: Does the Acura TL Type-S qualify for the forum ?
-I've seen plenty of people talk about this car as a player on the forum.

4. Employee discount is totally irrelavent in a discussion. Since you work for GM you'll be able to get a GM car for less. Same applies for someone works for BMW and Toyota. He or she will be able to get into a 335i or IS350 for less than you and me. Since you want to compare cars fair and square then let's make it as equal as possible. Bring in the GM employee discount into discussion can only damage your credibility and show your bias toward GM.

I DON'T work for General Motors or ever have. :confuse: My family does work for GM, but as a former owner of a 2005' Acura TL, that should prove I am not as biased as you think.

5. Members in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance. I will use the IS350 example to back up my statement. When the IS was introduced late last year it was consider the straight line performance benchmark of the class. It totally destroyed the then 330i in the 0-60 times (sounds familiar? Hint: CTS-V). However, as you can see from top of the other board, the IS350 was still listed as one of the cars on the list. Even though many members have issues with IS's "relatively" soft suspension and the unavailability of a manual tranny but that's subjective to debates. The bottom line is we in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance.

Hope that'll clear things out a bit for you.

Well like I said and I'm still convinced y'all in that board have set the guidlines in a way that limits conversation of other vehicals. That is why I started this forum so we can talk about more than 335i, G35, IS350, because those are the only true players in y'alls strict guidelines. Everything else isn't worth a hoot even mentioning.

I hope you see where myself and others are coming from and understand why some of us were frusterated with the entry-level luxury performance forum.

Rocky

P.S. Stop by anytime.

rockylee

Although I am a hard-core Acura/Honda fan and I love the current gen TL but I am having a hard time to digest that Acura is charging over $38K for a FWD, sub 300 HP car.

$36K sounds like the ideal price for me.

What do y'all think? Am I the only one to have issue with it?

Not to be a jerk, but I thought factory high-performance tuned cars weren't allowed in the entry-level luxury performance sedan forum ???? :P

As to your question louiswei, I owned a 2005' Acura TL Anthracite, 6-speed manual, Navi, Summer Tires. The MSRP was $36K and change. I paid $33K. I thought at the time it was the best deal on the market because of the technology offered in the car. The Lexus IS 350, I was looking at was $47K with pre-collision, and sport suspension pkg. I was going to settle for a non-sport suspension pkg. IS 350 if my memory serves me correctly it was like $2-3K cheaper so I'd still be at $44-45K.

I loved the design of the IS 350 but having one kid in a car seat and another one on the way I decided to get the roomier Acura TL. The Texas, Lexus dealers wouldn't budge off the MSRP. I think my best offer was $1K off MSRP but of course this car was brand new to the market and I would of had to wait for them to get the color Black with tan leather interior in. I also started figuring it up and the TL, made dollars and sense for me because I could get it for about $12K less. So is the TL-Type-S FWD er over-priced IMHO ? I'd say NO ! You get alot of car for your money and I'd be willing to bet you could knock $3-4K off MSRP. I'm not sure what current Lexus dealers are knocking off on MSRP but I'd be willing to bet it won't be as much as the acura dealers.

If you are a big Acura TL, fan then why not wait another 2 years for the rumored SH-AWD TL with over 300hp ? I hear some people throwing around 330hp. for the next TL. If something around that number becomes true the TL, could be a benchmark car. I know I will be drooling over it if they don't ruin that Alfa design they have working for them now.

Just my $0.02

Rocky

pat

Hey Rocky - let's drop the arguing about what vehicles are and are not included in the other discussion, okay? We don't need to be doing that anymore. Thanks!

flash11

Wow Rocky, you just had your knuckles wrapped by the host for stating the truth. We are in no way breaking any rules unless you are making them up as you go along. As soon as something came close to the BMW 3er ooowww that is bad..lets ban them before the truth gets out. They can't stand the competition. The whole purpose of this forum is to create a new niche, one that includes sensible discussion about Premium class sedans with performance (how does that sound?). louiswei, to correct you the reason the MKZ was banned from the lux-perf.sedan forum was because it did not have a manual shift option-an option the IS 350 you stated did not have yet it was allowed to stay, why is that ? Hypocrisy that is why. My argument was that the MKZ has the luxury (see Lincoln website MKZ interior/exterior images), the perforamance-263hp,and suspension to handle tight curves at high speeds,nice options for a good price, and most of all, they are affordable !! You can actually bargain for one and not feel the salesman is looking down at you condescendingly. Thanks Rocky. During the Christmas holidays I will take my wife out to the car mall and we will do a little comparison shopping BMW,MB,of course Lincoln MKZ he he, Acura TL-S,Infiniti G35,Volvo S60R, Caddy CTS etc. We will come back again to this forum and my wife can add her 0.02 cents. Can you do me a big favor ? Post an interior/exterior image of the MKZ vs. the BMW 335i, I think a pic would tell a lot, add the price at the bottom of each

pat

I'm not "rapping knuckles" for heaven's sake, or at least I didn't mean to sound like that. You can talk about the vehicles you want here, but you still have to go along with the policies of the Forums. Criticizing other members, discussions, etc., isn't part of an actual vehicle debate.

It no longer matters what vehicles are "allowed" or not in the other discussion because you can talk about all of them here.

Sorry for any misunderstanding. Please email me if you want to continue this conversation.

louiswei

flash11, I would love to track race you with My IS350 against your beloved MKZ. Since both cars are automatic so the competition should be fair. Feel free to name the track, drag strip, road track, I don't care (prefer in FL though :P ).

Wanna compare interiors...why pick on the 335i since we all know (except blueguydotcom) that it's interior is not top notch in the class. Where the 335i truly shines is in the performance department.

MKZ:


IS350:


G35:


TL:


335i:

robbieg

In order, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW and Lincoln. For some reason, the Lincoln doesn't do anything for me. It's interior is too angular. I just don't like the center of the dash, nor do I like how the dash appears square as opposed to being rounded like all of the others. Also, the gear shift looks cheap. Also, Infiniti has significantly improved the interior of the G35. Hopefully, Cadillac will make a similar improvement to the CTS. Lastly, where is the picture of the Audi, which in my opinion is the class leader.

bigbuck14

I don't post here a lot but yall are bashing the MKZ way too much.I don't get how the host does'nt want yall talking about the mkz in this forum I thought we had freedom of speech.Any way in those pics its like this.MKZ,G35,IS350,335,TL.

louiswei

Get your fact straight...

We don't hate the MKZ, it just doesn't belong in the "Entry Luxury Performance Sedan" class.

The interior preference is purely subjective and Lincoln would surely be glade that some of y'all like the MKZ's interior. For me, I prefer TL and IS350's.

Like I said, the best way to settle if MKZ "belongs" or not is to put it against the also-no-manual-tranny IS350 on a track. Just to make the competiton more fair, the driver of the IS350 shouldn't be allow to use his/her paddle shifter since the MKZ doesn't even have a steptronic tranny :surprise: even though it's a POS.

rockylee

It's a tie between the MKZ and G35 as best interiors. I'd give the edge to the MKZ though.

Where's the Audi, interior ? Well some of us don't want to go blinde. :P

The CTS-V, IMHO is the benchmark of the performance oriented sedans and in 2008' I believe the new CTS will be very competitive if not class leading against the competition such as the IS 350, 335i, G35, and of course MKZ. The next CTS-V, will continue it's performance dominance over the M cars because it can out muscle them.

I will also say this I wished BMW, wouldn't of ruined a beautiful design exterior and interior like they had going in the last generation of BMW's. The E36? M3 sedan was one of the most striking cars in the world. I do see some hope in the 2008' M3. I don't know if it was the angle or photo but the the M3 looked pretty good and not so funky.

Rocky

rockylee

I know interiors like design are a individual taste. I see some mocking the MKZ's interior as being vertical like a UPS truck. What in the sam hell would you call the current BMW interiors ? They look more awkward than the honda civics. However some will openly apologize and call that awkwardness "functional simplicity". Give me a break. :confuse:

Rocky

flash11

(reality) Awkwardness = (bias) functional simplicity, this is the backwards logic that has permeated the lux-perf.sedan forum. Glad you made this forum it is more sensible.
With that said, lets compare price vs. hp/std.options, the MKZ can be a reference, and lets see what bargain hunters think:
(Prices taken from the websites of each respectfully)

Lincoln MKZ MSRP starts at $29K,263hp.(base model in leather,heated seats,leather with wood interior,sporty tuned suspension ,4yr/50K mi.btb warrantee,6yr/70Kmi powertrain war.etc.etc...)

BMW 335i MSRP starts at $39K, 300hp.(difference +$10K,+37hp)

BMW 328xi MSRP starts at $35K,230hp (diff.+$6K, -33hp)

Lexus IS 350 MSRP starts at $36K, 306hp (diff.+$7K,+42hp)

Infiniti G35 base MSRP starts at $32K, 306hp (+3K,+42hp)

Acura TL MSRP starts at $33K,258hp (+4K, -5hp)

Acura TL-S MSRP $36K, 286hp (+7K, +23hp)

Mercedes C230, 201hp, $30K (+1K,-62hp)
Mercedes C280, 228hp, $34K (+5K,-35hp)
Mercedes C350, 268hp, $39K (+10K, +5hp)

Cadillac CTS 2.8L $30K, 210hp (+1K, -53hp)
Cadillac CTS 3.5L $33K, 255hp (+4K, -8hp)

Rocky is the Cadillac stats correct ? Could you list the CTS-V price vs. hp./std.options for us ?

No wonder louiswei wants to race, her IS 350 is a minimum +7K more and +42hp than the MKZ. But it looks like the Infiniti G35 delivers 306hp also but at $4K less. Now to go and test drive them to see the differences.

Flash 11

louiswei

Do you know anything about "torque"?

Have you actually compare each interior's fit and finish other than just solely depend on the pictures?

Ah, why bother....

rockylee

The CTS-V starts at $51,971 if you delete the sunroof and XM.

Click the sunroof, XM, shock absorbers and you are at $54,630. You can also get run flats at a additional $550 and if you like you can switch out by request for Goodyear F-1's. The engine block heaer is the only other option at $100. So at a $54K MSRP not counting the discount and/or rebate one can get at the time. Bottom-line you can get a very competitive BMW M car at a fully loaded BMW 335i price.

Rocky

flash11

louiswei, I've presented my facts,where are yours ? You insinuate hp has no basis ?! Is torque the real key to happiness with these cars ? OK show a comparison chart with the torque and luxury vs.price each car gives. Obviously torque is important to you and a factor not yet presented. Yes I have compared interiors fit and finish. I felt getting the interior pics posted would help prove the point,they say a 1000 words each,and I felt it was important enough to present to others since I saw it first hand, touched it, drove it, along with the others. Present your case, I'm all ears (eyes in this case). I think these forums help educate people including myself. Most prospective buyers may want the best buy for their money. I will make it easy for you, maybe you can show that a bit more money paid leverages a quality (torque and maybe something else?) not seen in the MKZ perhaps ???? My point is get your best bang for your buck (luxury,performance,options given,price considered equally) trumps overpriced sedans with similar qualities. I will be test driving all these cars again with this discussion in mind, I was not that impressed on my initial test drive considering the price tag of the others. Help me (us) understand your point. One day in the near future I will be buying one of these cars, so far I am leaning towards the . I like the design interior and exterior, plus the feel you get walking up to it, driving it, the power and handling was nice. Ford has done a great job with this car.

louiswei

I am done with the MKZ discussion. All I can say is that good for you that you like the MKZ but it just simply not good enough for me or some of us in this case.

If I want the best bang for the buck I'll go for the TL and G35. However, I choose to spend the extra $5K for the smooth V6 and class-leading interior fit and finish.

Have a great day.

flash11

class leading fit and finish
Still havent test ridden a MKZ yet I see. Too bad for you.

Here is my assessment of the test ride for:

Lincoln MKZ-midsize V6 Lincoln $35K MSRP fully loaded with all options,sales are good right now for this model, stiff steering, solid car,no noise, it does lack sportyness compared to a TL-S but is still luxurious for most people not biased. I can get a 2007 MKZ for approx.$33K due a employee discount, my friend works there.

Acura TL-S-midsize V6 $38K fully loaded-this car is a beast-great car, definately has luxurious interior,loved the comfortable seats, and the ride is excellent although it wobbled up and down when driving fast-salesman said it was delivered just off the truck and the mechanics had to adjust the wheels or something. Salesman also said he would give free oil changes for 4 years and free tires for life. Wow, I wonder what the maintenance costs are after 4 years. Dashboard lit up like a christmas tree with red and blue LED lighting, nice touch. Definately beats out the MKZ in terms of performance and luxury and a modern look. I bargained for a 2006 fully loaded for $33K. I will test drive this one again and try to convince myself buying Japanese does not hurt US workers or economy (8 plants closed, 30000 workers laid off this year alone). It amazes me that other US automakers have not caught on to this segment of car and produced something that can compete at its price range.

By the way the Sebring will have a retractible hard top late in 2007. Chrysler is trying hard but the Sebring looks middle of the road. They should adopt the Sema Sebring hood and other refinements.

Also liked the VW Eos 3.2L 250hp.$37-38K, good on gas mileage 22/32mpg, nice luxurious seating, little room in back seats for passengers, car looks beautiful,dash looks plain but still comes with a good stereo and Nav., and a retractible hardtop, nice. I also heard VW's in general need a lot of maintenance and costs are high.

I will now go and test out a G35 and a Cadillac CTS,plus the Lexus IS 350, and the Buick Lacross CXS 2006 250hp $26K again, just to compare.

Cheers

Flash 11

flash11

Just a quick announcement, Rocky have you seen the new Tesla Roadster ?? Electric/hybrid (it does use gas), 0-60 in 4 seconds, $100K for now, only 100 cars made, all sold out, featured in this months GQ mag. Wanna see more goto www.teslamotors.com
Apologies that is is off topic but thought I should mention it. Sweet car !, wonder if they will have a similar affordable sporty sedan ??

Flash 11

rockylee

The Tesla I agree is a sweet car. I think people that question the fit and finish of the MKZ, need to test drive one. louiswei, mentions the Acura TL, which as a former owner I agree is a nice car but so is the MKZ. If I had to choose between the two in 2007' I'd go MKZ. Well both are FWD, and both only have automatics. I know the Type-S has a manual tranny but the MKZ vs. base TL, is a no brainer IMHO. The MKZ, has a nice navi unit, AC-seats, and better stereo system. It also has a bit more power and does have AWD as a option. The TL, can out corner the MKZ, but the TL doesn't ride quite as well. So it boils down to preference of course and the MKZ, does a great job of giving the consumer a very nice modern looking car at a good MSRP and should be respected among the automotive world.

Rocky

rockylee

Does anyone have any spy pics, or any confirmed info/rumors on this car yet ?

Rocky

rockylee

Do you guys think the Mitsubishi EVO X will have enough luxury to be in the performance oriented entry-lux segment ? if it does happen to move up market into this segment it will kick everybody's butt at least in performance.

Rocky

rockylee

The next Cadillac CTS-V will receive the same engine as the Corvette SS using a supercharger to achieve those loft numbers. :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

I have no clue about a future MazdaSpeed 6. Just the one for sale as 2006 and 2007 models. MazdaSpeed was expected to only makes one model at a time for 1 or 2 years. Model year 2007 sees the introduction of the MazdaSpeed 3 in the last half of 2006. The Speed 6 is a leftover hanger-on.

Well unless Mazda really improves the "gadget" contenet it will never be a ELLPS canidate according to the ELLPS forum. I personally like the Mazdaspeed6 and requested further information on them about a year an a half ago. I think it's about 40 horsepower shy to run with the big dogs and Mazda needs to improve the materials on the interior to make it a hot seller in performance-oriented segment. However if you want a AWD family sports sedan it's worth considering. I think the segment is flooded with so many great choices the Mazda often gets over-looked.

Rocky

rockylee

So are you impressed with the new EVO-X ????

If so/not what are your likes and dislikes about the car ????

Rocky

louiswei

Rocky, I was never into cars like the EVO and Impreza. I know those are fun to drive but they don't offer enough luxury for my taste.

In luxury I am not only looking for leather seats, fake wood trims and gadgets (I can settle for Camry or Accord if I am satisfy with those). The most important criteria for me is the interior fit-'n-finish, material quality and overall appearance. To me the EVO do offer enough performance but not enough luxury to be an ELLPS.

Also, I am working in a fairly conservative environment so to drive a riced up car like the EVO will get me too much unnecessary attention.

rockylee

I guess some of the people I know love to have a trademerk. The new EVO-X is so impressive everything about it's is a trademark because out of all the cars they will release in the autoshows. EVO-X will have the "shock factor" and respect of being performance icon. The EVO-X will impressed

Rocky

rockylee

What do y'all think about that new Mercedes C class ????

I personally like it a lot. The manual is going to be available still right ?????

Rocky

rockylee

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline?14@@.ee9596c

Rocky

rockylee

First Look: 2008 Mercedes-Benz C-Class

More drama, more room

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=119276?tid=edmunds.il.ho- me.photopanel..3.*

Rocky

rockylee

http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm?id=24063

With a 362 hp. base LS-2 V8 on tap this car will be a powerful ELLPS alternative. The leakers say a 502 hp alternative is in the works.

Rocky

pat

Rocky, we can probably increase participation here if we set some categories. We can choose up to nine, so pick nine vehicles you want to focus on and I'll set them. I think that will get more folks' attention.

rockylee

9-Vehicals to talk about ? I appreciate the offer.

Ummmmmmmmm..........

Well a couple off the top of my head is the 2009' Cadillac CTS-V, 2008' Mitsubishi Lancer EVO-X,
2008' BMW M3, Acura TL Type-S and/or the new 09' SH-AWD TL, Audi S4 & S6, Mercedes C63 AMG model, Volvo S60R, Lincoln is suppose to come out with a SVT tuned MKZ in a couple of years. I also don't mind Chrysler's SRT sedans to be allowed either. If you can think of any more that kind of goes with the flow feel free to add them. I would like to keep the focus on "factory tuned" cars like Cadillac's "V" that is tuned by "GMPD" or Mercedes AMG division. Of course BMW's "M". The talking points I'd like to be focused towards performance, luxury, features/gadgets, quality, value or as they say "bang for buck". A little back n' forth about which car is better wouldn't hurt as long as personal attacks are left on the side walk.

If you can come up with a "factory tuner" type title that's catchy that might help participation that would be great.

Thanx, Pat....... :shades:

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/mitsubishi-prototype-x-breaks-cover/

Rocky

P.S. Perhaps "readerreader" has found better.....

pat

Well, your "couple off the top of [your] head" turned into more than nine!! I went with the first nine you listed but there isn't a C63 AMG. Did you mean C36 AMG, which I chose, or did you mean CLS63 AMG?

rockylee

C36 AMG. Well the MB C-class article talked about a C63 AMG

Later this year will come the AMG-tuned, V8-powered C63, and a wagon version is also not far behind.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119252

Well you put it togeather the way you think it makes since. I was just naming vehicals off.....I do want the CTS-V and EVO-X to be in there.

Rocky

P.S. Leave out the S6 and include the S4, S60R

rockylee

Shoot me a e-mail with the title please when available. I'm going to get off for a few hours.

Thanx,

Rocky

pat

I was just setting the categories. Look at the top of the page where it says "What is this discussion about?" to see what I mean. If you want it renamed, let me know what you want to call it and I'll take care of it.

rockylee

"Performance oriented factory tuner sedans" or
"Current and Future-performance oriented sedans"

What do you think ? "Performance oriented factory tuner sedans" is my pick. I'd be just as happy with the other one. I need a second opinion.

I want a title that is relavent 10 years from now but is catchy. I suppose we could change the title and give the one above a try. The current forum title is so much like the ELLPS and LPS forums.

I do appreciate your particpation on making this forum better and more interesting.

Thanx,

Rocky

pat

Okey-doke!

Double-check the categories and make sure they are what you want. You can look at the choices by looking at the Browse by Vehicle search on the left. Anything listed there can be a category, anything not listed there cannot. That's why, for example, I couldn't put Acura TL-S there, only Acura TL.

rockylee

Pat,

It looks great....

Thanx,

Rocky

rockylee

Cadillac CTS-V, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, BMW M3, Acura TL Type-S, Audi S4, Audi S6, Mercedes-Benz C36 AMG, Volvo S60 R, Lincoln MKZ(09' SVT turbo), Sedans.

Who/what is the best and why ?????

Rocky

dhamilton

Has a steering wheel the size of a school bus. But yeah, it's a sports sedan.

Congratulations on getting your forum up and running Rocky.
You've got quite a list of cars going.

I'll be back after a visit to my therapist. But seriously,

I am impressed with the new Lancer stylisticly. It seems as though they are really trying hard to be competitive with the luxury amenities. [although maybe it's more electronic trickery for us mericans]

To be sure, the performance part will be in place when the EVO comes to market.

Uh, can we add the new Audi R8 to thread, and maybe take out the S60R since it doesn't sell to hot?

rockylee

I thought the R8 was a coupe ???? If not then okay :confuse:

Dan, I don't care what y'all want to talk about but would like this forum to focus on "factory tuned" performance.

I guess I'd let "PAT" make the judgement if he thinks adding coupes would be a good idea from a particpation level ?????

I just wanted a place where we can talk about "factory tuned" cars and I honestly don't care if it's sedans, coupes, convertibles, as long as the subject is "factory tuned" both current and near future.

I like the new EVO-X as I've said many times. It is a factory tuned car. The Audi R8 I don't know about at all. I do know about the RS4, S6, S8. So explain to me what the heck is a Audi R8 ????? Is it a high performance "factory tuned" Audi A8 ???? :surprise:

Rocky