Ah but it is just so fun to tweak spoog...he gets so excited and mispells worse than me. That poor 3 year old mag he cites must be thread bare. . .
Regrets? No not really. About the only thing I do not like is the range of the turn signal when you select it. If your in a slight turn, it will not stay selected and/or if you are turning with it on, and turn back the other way, it will go off. That is a pain in my opinion.
Sound system is excellent, engine has plenty of torque, good fuel economy, excellent handeling, great on and off-road driving, very reasonable price.
Speaking of price, the dealer where I got mine is advertising 2001 Ranger, 4X4, , Supercab, 4.0, for about $16.5K. Would not think that is a loaded vehicle and I assume that includes all rebates, but you cannot beat that price for what you get. Same place has the basic 2X4 short bed for about $9.8K.
That is money in your pocket and for high tax states like
Illinois (spoog land, somewhere around 10%, right spoog? Sorry, I get use to my low 3.8%. . .)
There was a hiccup in the database yesterday and everything got reset to an earlier time, so some posts were lost. The system is reindexing right now and everything so be back to normal... well, as normal as it gets around here!
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the Toyota crowd thinks I am saying? I have said this over and over again. A locker is better than an LSD, but an LSD is better than an open diff for offroading. Fact is most Toyota 4x4's on the road have an open diff and their owners don't even know it! I surf other chat rooms and when I bring this point up they are usually shocked and revert back to "The Toyota is god" syndrome. The whole point I am trying to make is how limited the locker is to the average joe truck owner. A locker can't help you tow or haul anything. It can only be engaged in 4low and at very low speeds. I offroad and only use 4low when needed and then engage back into 4high most of the time. Toyota has done one heck of a marketing job with this TRD package. I have to give them credit for that. You pay some cash for a locker and some Bilstein shocks and springs just to have that sticker! LOL!... And with your TRD locker your driving around with an OPEN rear axle..
As you stated in your last post, lockers are better offroad than LS or open axles. As you may be aware, the TRD is an off-road package. This is why a locker is offered.
As for this whole TRD "sticker" thing, how is this any different than the "4x4 Off-road" decal on Rangers and F150's??
\\That poor 3 year old mag he cites must be thread bare. . .\\
The issue I am referring to is the MAY 2001 Four Wheeler issue where the Tacoma TRD beats the Hummer, Land Rover and the Jeep. There is also a killer section about the arctic landcruiser expeditions. Great photos. I suggest you pick it up Cspouner.
I also refer to the 2001 pickup of the year at www.fourwheeler.com
I am now in the market for a used 4x4. Test drove a stock,'89 Toyota 4cyl 4x4, extra-cab. 120k miles, reasonably strong other than some pinging, and rough idle. Assuming the engine, etc. are sound, is this a strong enough motor for level "3.0" terrain off-roading? Were the transfer cases, and trannys sound in '89? Or am I better off looking at newer models? Thx!
We owned an '89 extra-cab SR5 from new until we traded it in 1995 for the "new" Tacoma. Biggest mistake I have made in a long time, but I've told that story before. Our '89 was problem free for the entire time we owned it (six years), and we took it off-roading many times here in the Colorado rockies and also around Moab on trails that were 3.0+ on jholc's "Moab scale".
The biggest detriment to off-roading is the length and turning circle. Makes for many "back-and-forths" at hairpin turns. The highway ride was great and the seats were VERY comfortable (sport seats).
Ours was a V6, not a 4 cyl. If you want to 4-wheel in the rockies, you WILL need the V6. The 4-banger just doesn't have the grunt needed at altitude.
Vince, I am in total agreement with you regarding the Locker & LSD. You've pretty much cited the main reason I didn't opt for the TRD. Toyota must be doing a heck of a job pitching it too. Almost every 4x4 Tacoma X-cab I see on the road today is a TRD and here in NJ I can only speculate that most are not using their lockers. A friend of mine bought a 99 Tacoma and went with a 4-cyl TRD instead of a 6-cyl non-TRD like I have in my 98. His needs are basically the same as mine. When I bought mine, the dealer pitched the TRD but when I considered the additional cost vs. how often I'd use it based on my wants/needs; I declined. They didn't push me hard either, just put it on the table as an option. I use the 4wd for snow and occasional light offroading (mostly soft sand). No need for a locker based on this type of usage really, I barely use 4wd-Low as it is (I think I've used it twice in 3 yrs.)
BTW, I'm at 59,295 miles and I just completely detailed her. One look and you'd never guess there's close to 60K miles.
Anyway, I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.
I have to say there has been a lot of bickering about ranger vs tacoma,etc. Who cares what everyone thinks, let them buy what they want, and pay for what they want. You can't force others to adhere to your opinion. Drive both, and decide which features/packages offer the best value for you.
All I have to say is cold hard facts, like Ford Ranger is the BEST SELLING COMPACT PICKUP for the last 13 years. I'm still driving a '93 2.3l, with 180k miles on it, and it's still running smooth, getting 20 city/26 highway miles. The Valve cover hasn't ever had a need to come off. All accessories are pulling great for cold original R-12 a/c, the original alternator still powers a 600 watt stereo, power steering is a bit noisy but still tight. Only the transmission had to be replaced, but at 130k miles, that's pretty acceptable. Raced on South Padre Island, beats up jeep wranglers for a living, taken offroad in Arkansas buffalo river area more times than I can count, hooked up my tow chain to help out many imports stuck on steep grades roads there too. Never been stuck, never been broke down, no problem sensors, only see the check engine light briefly when the the dash lights test out during start.
It's all about how you care for your car/truck. Every scheduled maintenance was performed. Change and flush your fluids on schedule!!! Take advantage of Duralube and zMax! Most people have no idea how to maintain a vehicle. I won't argue packages and options, but will say Ford offers better value for the money in my opinion. I wouldn't mind owning a toyota, but I think I would have spent more money for the same truck in different clothing.
Now I'm looking to upgrade to a 01 or 02 Ranger Edge Plus! 4.0l, manual, etc. Just can't find a 4x2 LSD regular cab 4.0l manual in stock! All this for 16,600 MSRP. Check out the MSRP on equivalent Tacoma. But who pays MSRP? HAH.
I would agree with Vince8 and indacurl2k on the TuRD locker. My wife and I want the 4X4 Tacoma Xtracab but have no need for a $1500 package that includes:
1. Billstein shocks (sp?) - I found them listed at $120 a pair (approx. $240 f & r)
2. Aluminum wheels - You have to upgrade the wheels anyway if you want the SR5 package so I see little benefit in getting the TRD because of the wheels. I can save the xtra $700 and just get the wheels or get the Styled Steel wheels for ~$500 and upgrade to aftermarket alums (hell, you get the same tires no matter what tire package you upgrade to)
3. A sticker - I don't want TRD on the side of my truck. Everytime I see it, all I see is TuRD
4. A locker - It's only good for 4lo. Great in the sticks, a waste on the pavement or trails.
My 2 cents - If you want 4 Wheel Drive for snow, recreational camping or light trail use, skip the TRD and get the Styled Steel wheels with the SR5 LX package. If you're in the sticks get the TRD package and remove the sticker.
Now...here's the catch. Good luck finding a 4X4 SR5 LX Tacoma V6 XtraCab without TRD! Dealers are sensitive to supply Vs. demand and they will not order a bunch of trucks they think will be hard to get rid of or move. We went to a bunch of dealers last weekend and it was miles of smiles and TRD as far as the eye could see. If the dealer is going to sell me on TRD it will be the hardest sell he/she will ever make.
Yeah!! Someone read my post and understood it!! I know the Toyota crowd hates it when I post reared diff facts about the Tacoma, that is why they want this to stop. The less people who know the better, NOT! I post this all over the net at different chat rooms. As I have said, its surprising to find out just how little Tacoma owners really know about their trucks...
Spread the word on world hunger....NO....world peace......No.....Vince's contribution to the world is spreading his opinion on Toyota rear ends. How fulfilling.
It's amazing how people can try and justify their own decisions by bashing others. I think it's funny how anti-TRD individuals think that by stating their opinions on the package that this will drop Toyota sales figures. (Nice try) Everyone knows that they are just envious of our Trucks and deep down wish they had one. So, keep up the entertainment I find it amusing.
It is stated over and over again that Ford guys are jealous, or envious of the Tacoma, but How come RANGER is the Best Selling Compact Truck (For Over 13 Straight Years)? Rangers WITHOUT-A-DOUBT outsell Tacomas, Sonomas, S10s, Dakotas, Frontiers, ETC, ETC. (Check the sales volumes if you don't believe me) These messages aren't going to affect any sales figures either way, but it could provide info to those sitting "on the fence". I don't think Tacoma's are bad trucks AT ALL, just know that my current and future ranger will be more truck at less cost.
You like the Toyota, so you can keep it. Enjoy, and have fun.
I like the Ford, so I will stay with it. And I (we) enjoy it, and have fun.
I know I spent less money, and enjoy the extra options.
Forget the bashing, and bruised feelings. Tell us all (Ford or toyota kin alike) why you think your brand is better!
The only reason Ranger outsells Toyota is because of the price. Of course more people are in the market for buying something affordable. Not everyone has the extra funds for the higher caliber products. It all boils down to "Image". Why do you think there are more new Corvettes on the road than Porsches? They are both fast sports cars and handling is similar. But what catches your eye when it passes you on the freeway, "the Porsche". Ranger fans are always stating how they saved so much money, when in reality they never had the extra money to buy a Tacoma in the first place.
Other than price, how do you know it is a better product? I hope your not saying that foreign or more expensive parts are justified "higher caliber products". You're paying money for the darn thing to be shipped, and additional taxes.
What I'm talking is Value. Take equivalent trucks Ford and Toyota(equivalent in options).
I took extended cabs, v6, manual, a/c, tach, fog lights, 4wheel ABS, pwr locks, windows, securikey plus. This is all standard in the Edge package ford offers, but all options for tacoma. I might of missed one or two, but Ford still has more cubic inches, a CD player, tow and tie down hooks, factory tint, plus much more. All for $1350 less MSRP, and probably bettor off invoice (and order invoice unless you like blowing cash)
Not only does ford offer more configurations to fit individual need, I can't find a model that is the same price or more than the toyota. Same truck, will last the same if you care for it (my 93 has 180k miles and still gets 20/26 mpg,(read my previous post for more info on that)) And it has outperformed off road and on road more than any other equivalent truck. My tow strap has only been used on helping imports out (not neccessary all tacoma, but I know there were a few in that group). Maybe I know how to drive, maybe I know how to care for a car/truck, or maybe Ford is doing it right! (for the past 14 years)
Deloreans were supposed to be the best car, with good reliability and performance. But they cost too much, and didn't sell. Sales volumes indicate consumer demand more than any consumer opinions out there. Period.
"Image" is in the eye of the beholder too eh? You can swear that a Gremlin is the best looking car (to you), and you wouldn't be wrong.
Also why would people be buying so many corvettes when the Porsche boxter is the same price? Porsches have one of the highest amount of customer satisfaction because they have fewer problems than corevettes. But Why corvettes outsell? Because people love Vettes and what they represent, and they are still reliable cars, and for the same or less cost they are more popular. Besides service and parts are cheaper because they are domestic. My point is people buy what they want, because of the car/truck appeals to them the most, gives them the more bang for the buck. *** AND and comparison between two different "bangs" from two types of cars/trucks are like comparing apples to kiwi (or oranges). They both are sweet fruit, but one is much more obtainable. You can go to any parts store and get parts for a LT1, but try finding performance or even replacement parts for a prorsche(other than dealer). And the list goes on!
When I get my new 4.0l ranger in the next year, I'll blow the doors off any tacoma out there, on or off road. And I'll pay less than the tacoma I leave in the dust, and be Laughing all the way.
midnight is right. cheaper doesn't necessarily sell, it's value that sells. If the cheapest was always the most desirable, then you would see a ton of people buying chevy cavaliers. as it is, chevy dealers can barely give that car away. The ranger offers a lot of vehicle for the money. It also has features and packages that are geared toward the mass truck buying market.
As far as your "image" analogy, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. are you saying that a tacoma has a porsche-like "image?"
You make some valid points. I would agree with everything you said except that we are not comparing apples to oranges (kiwi).
This thread is setup to compare a US domestic compact pickup to an import compact pickup. I think we are talking about two different types of apples.
You did a good job of comparing two similar trucks, option for option, and you are right that the Ford is less expensive and probably very close in reliablity to the Toyota.
But the fact is that alot of how people view the integrity and the reliablity of their car is based on current experience and past history. Now you can't tell me that over the past 20 years Ford has been knocking down the doors with reliablity when compared to imports... I would say they are #1 domestically but not compared to makers like Nissan, Toyota and Honda.
to the offroad pkg/sticker question. First the offroad pkg for the Ranger is about $300 the TRD is I believe about $1300 dollars. This is roughly a 1K difference. I have yet to come across a TRD owner who actually was able to get the dealer down to the LIST price for the TRD package. With the TRD package you get a "Toyota tuned suspension". Yeah, right, some Bilstein shocks, springs and a locker... Value, is where its at and no way are you going to try to convince anyone a Toyota is actually less than a Ford product, any Toyota product at that! The Toyota crowd preaches resale, yet they don't admit how much MORE they paid for the vehicle at purchase. They preach reliability, yet they don't see the data around the net saying the gap isn't as wide as you may want it to be. This other argument of "not being able to afford a Tacoma". Ever thought maybe we didn't fall for the "image" garbage, took the saved cash and spent it on other better things? To make a statement like that is awfully shallow. I guess us poor folks will continue to buy Rangers... I have been called a TRD basher for bringing facts about its diff, and have people really think about just how much use they are going to get out of this option. I went down an priced these out again for a 2001 model for for kicks at a local Toyota dealer. For a V6 TRD supercab they want $25,762!! I want to hear more of those stories from Toyota owners who bought these for 21K... Yeah right....
regarding the sticker thing: you missed the point. Whatever is included or not included in the TRD or "Off-Road" package has nothing to do with it. You have argued on many occasions that the TRD package is just a marketing gimmick. I could make the exact same arguement about the "4x4 OFF-ROAD" package on rangers and F-150's. -or chevy Z71's and ZR2's. How many F150's actually ever leave the pavement? 6, maybe 7%?? why, then, are the vast majority of F150's sold equipped with the "OFF-ROAD" package?? It's all marketing, and they all do it. -they just call it different names.
As a side note, I'm not really sure that you could upgrade a non-TRD tacoma to a "TRD package" for much less than $1300 in the aftermarket. (don't forget that in addition to the shocks, springs, and locker there's also upgraded wheels and tires, which are certainly not cheap)
Yeah, and there is no telling which steering and suspension components are interchanged to compose either the TRD or 4x4 Sticker package. Including but not exclusive to leaf springs, control arms, panard, and sway bars, etc. Typically all 4x4's offer a higher riding height, so it should be more than springs and shocks just because of geometry. And fitting all these component changes would be hard to determine, much less debate.
Yep Great Dane, Ford, as all domestic cars, seem to have a bad rap for long term reliablity. I attribute some of that to lazy americans (on strike, (chevy)) Or maybe they were just built on Wednesday/Hump Day. But that paradigm is slowly changing, especially with the new engines and manufacturing methods being used today. We helped out the japanese, and now they produce long lasting great cars, but the Big three are coming around. I think they were still trying to make old platforms work. (I.E. Pushrod 2valve motors, low compression, extra cubes vs 4 valve high compression, aluminum products) But we're definately catching up, with modular motors, more cost effective manufacturing methods and materials. The details are still being ironed out in many cases, but with 100,000 2002 Explorers pre-ordered, I think the consumers are definately realizing where domestic (Ford) vehicles are today. Like my '00 GT mustang getting 22 MPG city with 5speed and pretty much flooring it. My girlfriend's Honda Accord 4cyl with ULEV (Ultra Low emissions Vehicle) is getting 20 MPG or less city, and she's a lead foot too. I don't think the extra gear I have is making up for the 4 extra cylinders(same number of valves, however!), but I am leaving her in the dust and using less fuel. But only time will tell who has the first break down! Until then, carpe diem.
Well, it has been a long time since I've written and I see that not much has changed. Ranger owners think Rangers are the best and Tacoma owners think Tacomas are the best.
Guess what, the answer is simple. The Tacoma is a much better truck. I wouldn't buy a Ranger if it were the last truck on Earth. Simply put, a Ranger is what you buy when you can't afford a YOTA! End of story. Any questions?
So if you removed the emblems, the stickers and the labels, what do you have? One Domestic 4X4 compact truck and one Import 4X4 compact truck.
Which one is better? Only you know for sure but, here's the catch...what you know only works for you. Occasionaly you'll meet people who had the same thought. You'll know those people because they'll be drinvin' the same truck.
Tacoma fan here but Vince makes a good argument. If you want SR5 anything you have to upgrade the wheels.
Now you don't have to get TRD (i.e., you could get ST styled steel ~$500 or CW Chrome wheels ~$600 which come with the same tires as TRD) but SR5 without TRD...They're hard to find. I don't think dealers are willing to risk building up an inventory of potentially less-than-desireable package combinations.
Personally I don't need or want TRD but I could say the same about the Edge package. Why didn't Ford call theirs SVT 4X4 anyway??? The Edge? Sounds a bit hinky.
issi steel man-> Ok, question for you. . . Do you care to elaborate any factual evidence of the statements made in your second paragraph? If the answer was simple, there wouldn't be 961 messages in this discussion alone.
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -Albert Einstein
In your opinion what attributes make the Tacoma 'a much better truck than the Ranger' ?
Different individuals have different wants and needs (other than just cost) satisfied by the truck the choose, so I think it is possible for there to be cases where the Ranger is a better match for folks.. According to the sales figures, it must be alot of folks..
I bought a 2001 ext. cab/4x4 TRD, auto., abs, fully loaded for $20,000 (sticker $25, 362). Wait before you freak out I did have a trade in, but it was a 1987 4x4, std. cab, 5spd Nissan with 197,000 miles on it. I also looked at new fully loaded Ranger (sticker $23,400) and it was going to be $20,000 with same trade. So either way I looked at it I was going to pay the same price for either truck, and where did you think I thought the better value was? Not that I thought the Ford was bad, it's just that they wouldn't compete with the Toyota dealership. Same way with Nissan, they were the whole reason I didn't buy another Nissan. There sticker price was $23,111 for an ext. cab 5sp, supercharged 4x4 and they wouldn't take any less than $21,500 with trade. After I picked myself up from laughing I went across the street and priced the Tacoma and the Ranger. So, from my stand point the Ford wasn't going to save me any money! Maybe the Ford dealership saw me and saw sucker, evidently Nissan did from their quote. But I, again I state I thought Toyota was more than comperable than Ford or Nissan..
That sounds a bit dubious since that would put the sale below dealer cost on the Taco. What financing did you get? My inclination would be they made up the difference with a high rate over a longer period of time and took the hit in the sales price to make a profit on the monthly payment.
As a person looking for the vehicle you described you've peaked my interest but I must say that I doubt the $20k number. If you're including the trade-in with your price that wouldn't be a fair number.
Yes ebb, that included the trade-in that Edmunds rated at $1200. That was my whole point, Toyota dealership gave me 3x's for trade than what Ford would do, that is why I paid $20,000. The interest rate I got through e-loan on the internet for 6.35%. Toyota wanted like 9%, I said no thanks. The prices were higher than Fords but they were willing to meet my price in other ways, ways that Ford or Nissan wouldn't...
It would seem you got a very good price on that Tacoma.
That is close to the price Toyota wanted 2 years ago for a non-TRD 4X4, the time frame I was looking.
By the spedo, my 99 just went over 40K, maybe 41K actual(I never adjusted the spedo after getting the 31 inch tires so at 50mph I am really doing 54mph. That means my odometer counts slower). Looked at the 40K service requirements, changed the oil and was on my way. . .Still using Mobil 1 5W30 and am well satisfied with the way the truck runs.
My son has the same setup. He bought it new in Olympia, WA and he has already put over 75k on it. Spends almost every weekend in the Cascades and Olympic ranges. He loves the truck and has not had any major problems. He did have to replace a spring (it broke and was out of warranty), but Toyota replaced it and the one on the other side free of charge. I think he said Toyota told him that this was a known problem. Never heard of it before. Seems to be very reliable, but he did pay big $$$$.
MT Rainer? or Olympic area? I have had my Ranger up around MT Rainer/St Helens in the spring and wow! was it beautiful. Many of the trails around MT ST. Helens are blocked off and patrolled by Rangers so you really have to watch yourself and where you go. I am farther south and vist MT Hood, 3 sisters, MT Jefferson area, along with Eastern Oregon. Love this place, best in my book for offroading and seeing sites few even know exist. There is a spot on MT Hood that you must have at minimum a 4x4 vehicle with some clearance to get to, up by Frog Lake. You follow it up and up and UP. You reach a ledge, just enough to turn your truck around and look out along the Cascade range. You can see on a clear day all the Mountains, Rainer, Helens, Sisters.. and more. You can also see how the Mountain range flows down into Eastern Oregon. Eagle, the price is the huge difference! Along with just how much use you are going to get out of the TRD setup. With the Ranger offroad setup you get a limited slip diff which is a much better match for the everyday truck user. I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for. 21K for a V6 4x4 TRD loaded, noway, nohow. You got a bridge to sell?
I paid 20K and if you want to add tax, licensing, etc. it was 21K. To be honest I didn't want to buy a Toyota, I wanted a Nissan and then my next choice was a Ranger. But for what they were willing to sell the Taco for, including trade-in I couldn't pass it up. The trade in was in good shape just had a lot of miles. It was V6, 5sp. 4x4 Nissan with new tires, clutch, and had just done tune-up. That was the whole reason I wanted another Nissan, because how that one treated me. Evidently Ford didn't think they could move it and Toyota did. I am not some Taco freak demanding that you bow to its structure, I was a Nissan freak who got a good price on a nice truck. I would be glad to give the dealer's name and # if anyone is interested in checking out Tacos.
Someone who has modest needs for a truck and realizes that all of the trucks (Nissan, Ford, Toyota) would meet his needs. What was the deciding factor? service and price.. Given that if you own any vehicle long enough you will probably have to have it serviced. If you normally go to a dealership for work, then dealership quality (both in service and workmanship) should be a factor. Sounds like he chose well..
It's my experience that most Toyota dealership choose not to go as low on their prices (regardless of what their radio ads say). Also that friends of mine (who've had thier toyota's in for service) would not recommend the dealerships.. (They like their Toyota, just not the service they received).
I actually drive 20 miles past the closest ford dealership to a different one to get my ford vehicle serviced, (so far for recall work and one warranty claim on my Windstar). My SuperDuty has had no problems (only 26k miles).
We were discussing traction and 4X4, and he said we don't need it in Massachusetts, they plow the roads. Needless to say, this friend hasn't been to Vermont skiing with me!!!
Anyhow, he said after thinking about it, he could always weld the rear axles together, and just buy cheapo tires every year for good traction. Who cares if they scrub? I thought this was some unique thinking, but really it makes sense in a strange sort of way.
as you've said before, a locker is better for offroading. The TRD package is an off-road package. where's the problem???
Also, I'd like to see you explain to me how I could build a standard Tacoma into a TRD using aftermarket parts for less than $1300. (don't forget about the labor charges either)
"I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for." -what's your point? like most Ranger owners do????
His point is that folks claim the tacoma is overall better than the ranger because of the claimed off-road superiority of the tacoma..
If your needs in a truck don't involve super extreme off-roading, then these are options that go unused.
Its like claiming because brand A truck has a top speed of 120 mph, and brand B has a top speed 150mph, that brand B is better.. Not necessarily so as most folks will never see more than 75mph in their daily driving..
So each individual should compare the trucks based on options that are of use to them.
With that kind of logic anyone buying a Porsche, Ferreri, etc., is an idiot because they'll never use everything the car is capable of. I guess a Pinto would be just as good to people like yourself. I'm afraid that few people would see any logic in your statement, except of course, a Ranger owner trying his best to prove equal status with a Tacoma.
Comments
It has been proven time and time again that the Tacoma is better than the ranger in resale, reliability, and offroading!
\\Will match a Ranger twin Ibeam off-roader against your Tacoma any time\\
hahahaha. Dude, you dont get it, do you?
Fourhweeler magazine had a test where the Tacoma TRD OUTDID a hummer, a Jeep TJ, and a land rover!!!
That poor 3 year old mag he cites must be thread bare. . .
Regrets? No not really. About the only thing I do not like is the range of the turn signal when you select it. If your in a slight turn, it will not stay selected and/or if you are turning with it on, and turn back the other way, it will go off. That is a pain in my opinion.
Sound system is excellent, engine has plenty of torque, good fuel economy, excellent handeling, great on and off-road driving, very reasonable price.
Speaking of price, the dealer where I got mine is advertising 2001 Ranger, 4X4, , Supercab, 4.0, for about $16.5K. Would not think that is a loaded vehicle and I assume that includes all rebates, but you cannot beat that price for what you get. Same place has the basic 2X4 short bed for about $9.8K.
That is money in your pocket and for high tax states like
Illinois
(spoog land, somewhere around 10%, right spoog? Sorry, I get use to my low 3.8%. . .)
you save on sales tax for the vehicle.
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Fact is most Toyota 4x4's on the road have an open diff and their owners don't even know it! I surf other chat rooms and when I bring this point up they are usually shocked and revert back to "The Toyota is god" syndrome.
The whole point I am trying to make is how limited the locker is to the average joe truck owner. A locker can't help you tow or haul anything. It can only be engaged in 4low and at very low speeds. I offroad and only use 4low when needed and then engage back into 4high most of the time. Toyota has done one heck of a marketing job with this TRD package. I have to give them credit for that. You pay some cash for a locker and some Bilstein shocks and springs just to have that sticker! LOL!... And with your TRD locker your driving around with an OPEN rear axle..
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Guys, we MUST get some new topic matter here. The reguritation of SOS is making me sleepy too.
spoog:
For God's sake, find SOMETHING new to say, PLEASE!
As for this whole TRD "sticker" thing, how is this any different than the "4x4 Off-road" decal on Rangers and F150's??
The issue I am referring to is the MAY 2001 Four Wheeler issue where the Tacoma TRD beats the Hummer, Land Rover and the Jeep. There is also a killer section about the arctic landcruiser expeditions. Great photos. I suggest you pick it up Cspouner.
I also refer to the 2001 pickup of the year at www.fourwheeler.com
The Tacoma wins that contest as well.
Quotes from magazines are interesting the first time, somewhat boring the second time, and after that, its just plain RUDE!
Enough already!
The biggest detriment to off-roading is the length and turning circle. Makes for many "back-and-forths" at hairpin turns. The highway ride was great and the seats were VERY comfortable (sport seats).
Ours was a V6, not a 4 cyl. If you want to 4-wheel in the rockies, you WILL need the V6. The 4-banger just doesn't have the grunt needed at altitude.
BTW, I'm at 59,295 miles and I just completely detailed her. One look and you'd never guess there's close to 60K miles.
Anyway, I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.
All I have to say is cold hard facts, like Ford Ranger is the BEST SELLING COMPACT PICKUP for the last 13 years. I'm still driving a '93 2.3l, with 180k miles on it, and it's still running smooth, getting 20 city/26 highway miles. The Valve cover hasn't ever had a need to come off. All accessories are pulling great for cold original R-12 a/c, the original alternator still powers a 600 watt stereo, power steering is a bit noisy but still tight. Only the transmission had to be replaced, but at 130k miles, that's pretty acceptable. Raced on South Padre Island, beats up jeep wranglers for a living, taken offroad in Arkansas buffalo river area more times than I can count, hooked up my tow chain to help out many imports stuck on steep grades roads there too. Never been stuck, never been broke down, no problem sensors, only see the check engine light briefly when the the dash lights test out during start.
It's all about how you care for your car/truck. Every scheduled maintenance was performed. Change and flush your fluids on schedule!!! Take advantage of Duralube and zMax! Most people have no idea how to maintain a vehicle. I won't argue packages and options, but will say Ford offers better value for the money in my opinion. I wouldn't mind owning a toyota, but I think I would have spent more money for the same truck in different clothing.
Now I'm looking to upgrade to a 01 or 02 Ranger Edge Plus! 4.0l, manual, etc. Just can't find a 4x2 LSD regular cab 4.0l manual in stock! All this for 16,600 MSRP. Check out the MSRP on equivalent Tacoma. But who pays MSRP? HAH.
I would agree with Vince8 and indacurl2k on the TuRD locker. My wife and I want the 4X4 Tacoma Xtracab but have no need for a $1500 package that includes:
1. Billstein shocks (sp?) - I found them listed at $120 a pair (approx. $240 f & r)
2. Aluminum wheels - You have to upgrade the wheels anyway if you want the SR5 package so I see little benefit in getting the TRD because of the wheels. I can save the xtra $700 and just get the wheels or get the Styled Steel wheels for ~$500 and upgrade to aftermarket alums (hell, you get the same tires no matter what tire package you upgrade to)
3. A sticker - I don't want TRD on the side of my truck. Everytime I see it, all I see is TuRD
4. A locker - It's only good for 4lo. Great in the sticks, a waste on the pavement or trails.
My 2 cents - If you want 4 Wheel Drive for snow, recreational camping or light trail use, skip the TRD and get the Styled Steel wheels with the SR5 LX package. If you're in the sticks get the TRD package and remove the sticker.
Now...here's the catch. Good luck finding a 4X4 SR5 LX Tacoma V6 XtraCab without TRD! Dealers are sensitive to supply Vs. demand and they will not order a bunch of trucks they think will be hard to get rid of or move. We went to a bunch of dealers last weekend and it was miles of smiles and TRD as far as the eye could see. If the dealer is going to sell me on TRD it will be the hardest sell he/she will ever make.
John
I know the Toyota crowd hates it when I post reared diff facts about the Tacoma, that is why they want this to stop. The less people who know the better, NOT! I post this all over the net at different chat rooms. As I have said, its surprising to find out just how little Tacoma owners really know about their trucks...
you didn't answer my question. what about the "4x4 Off-Road" decal on rangers and F-150's?? how is this different than the TRD sticker concept?
It's amazing how people can try and justify their own decisions by bashing others. I think it's funny how anti-TRD individuals think that by stating their opinions on the package that this will drop Toyota sales figures. (Nice try) Everyone knows that they are just envious of our Trucks and deep down wish they had one. So, keep up the entertainment I find it amusing.
Regards,
Loyal TRD Fan
It is stated over and over again that Ford guys are jealous, or envious of the Tacoma, but How come RANGER is the Best Selling Compact Truck (For Over 13 Straight Years)? Rangers WITHOUT-A-DOUBT outsell Tacomas, Sonomas, S10s, Dakotas, Frontiers, ETC, ETC. (Check the sales volumes if you don't believe me) These messages aren't going to affect any sales figures either way, but it could provide info to those sitting "on the fence". I don't think Tacoma's are bad trucks AT ALL, just know that my current and future ranger will be more truck at less cost.
You like the Toyota, so you can keep it. Enjoy, and have fun.
I like the Ford, so I will stay with it. And I (we) enjoy it, and have fun.
I know I spent less money, and enjoy the extra options.
Forget the bashing, and bruised feelings. Tell us all (Ford or toyota kin alike) why you think your brand is better!
Me thinks Ford's sticker is a little hoakie too. "Look everyone! I bought a 4X4! It says so on the side!"
Give me a break. If it were up to me, I would remove the emblems entirely from my cars. Over time, all they do is date it.
John
What I'm talking is Value. Take equivalent trucks Ford and Toyota(equivalent in options).
I took extended cabs, v6, manual, a/c, tach, fog lights, 4wheel ABS, pwr locks, windows, securikey plus. This is all standard in the Edge package ford offers, but all options for tacoma. I might of missed one or two, but Ford still has more cubic inches, a CD player, tow and tie down hooks, factory tint, plus much more. All for $1350 less MSRP, and probably bettor off invoice (and order invoice unless you like blowing cash)
Not only does ford offer more configurations to fit individual need, I can't find a model that is the same price or more than the toyota. Same truck, will last the same if you care for it (my 93 has 180k miles and still gets 20/26 mpg,(read my previous post for more info on that)) And it has outperformed off road and on road more than any other equivalent truck. My tow strap has only been used on helping imports out (not neccessary all tacoma, but I know there were a few in that group). Maybe I know how to drive, maybe I know how to care for a car/truck, or maybe Ford is doing it right! (for the past 14 years)
Deloreans were supposed to be the best car, with good reliability and performance. But they cost too much, and didn't sell. Sales volumes indicate consumer demand more than any consumer opinions out there. Period.
"Image" is in the eye of the beholder too eh? You can swear that a Gremlin is the best looking car (to you), and you wouldn't be wrong.
Also why would people be buying so many corvettes when the Porsche boxter is the same price? Porsches have one of the highest amount of customer satisfaction because they have fewer problems than corevettes. But Why corvettes outsell? Because people love Vettes and what they represent, and they are still reliable cars, and for the same or less cost they are more popular. Besides service and parts are cheaper because they are domestic. My point is people buy what they want, because of the car/truck appeals to them the most, gives them the more bang for the buck. *** AND and comparison between two different "bangs" from two types of cars/trucks are like comparing apples to kiwi (or oranges). They both are sweet fruit, but one is much more obtainable. You can go to any parts store and get parts for a LT1, but try finding performance or even replacement parts for a prorsche(other than dealer). And the list goes on!
When I get my new 4.0l ranger in the next year, I'll blow the doors off any tacoma out there, on or off road. And I'll pay less than the tacoma I leave in the dust, and be Laughing all the way.
The ranger offers a lot of vehicle for the money. It also has features and packages that are geared toward the mass truck buying market.
As far as your "image" analogy, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. are you saying that a tacoma has a porsche-like "image?"
This thread is setup to compare a US domestic compact pickup to an import compact pickup. I think we are talking about two different types of apples.
You did a good job of comparing two similar trucks, option for option, and you are right that the Ford is less expensive and probably very close in reliablity to the Toyota.
But the fact is that alot of how people view the integrity and the reliablity of their car is based on current experience and past history. Now you can't tell me that over the past 20 years Ford has been knocking down the doors with reliablity when compared to imports... I would say they are #1 domestically but not compared to makers like Nissan, Toyota and Honda.
John
Value, is where its at and no way are you going to try to convince anyone a Toyota is actually less than a Ford product, any Toyota product at that! The Toyota crowd preaches resale, yet they don't admit how much MORE they paid for the vehicle at purchase. They preach reliability, yet they don't see the data around the net saying the gap isn't as wide as you may want it to be.
This other argument of "not being able to afford a Tacoma". Ever thought maybe we didn't fall for the "image" garbage, took the saved cash and spent it on other better things? To make a statement like that is awfully shallow. I guess us poor folks will continue to buy Rangers...
I have been called a TRD basher for bringing facts about its diff, and have people really think about just how much use they are going to get out of this option. I went down an priced these out again for a 2001 model for for kicks at a local Toyota dealer. For a V6 TRD supercab they want $25,762!! I want to hear more of those stories from Toyota owners who bought these for 21K... Yeah right....
As a side note, I'm not really sure that you could upgrade a non-TRD tacoma to a "TRD package" for much less than $1300 in the aftermarket. (don't forget that in addition to the shocks, springs, and locker there's also upgraded wheels and tires, which are certainly not cheap)
Yep Great Dane, Ford, as all domestic cars, seem to have a bad rap for long term reliablity. I attribute some of that to lazy americans (on strike, (chevy)) Or maybe they were just built on Wednesday/Hump Day. But that paradigm is slowly changing, especially with the new engines and manufacturing methods being used today. We helped out the japanese, and now they produce long lasting great cars, but the Big three are coming around. I think they were still trying to make old platforms work. (I.E. Pushrod 2valve motors, low compression, extra cubes vs 4 valve high compression, aluminum products) But we're definately catching up, with modular motors, more cost effective manufacturing methods and materials. The details are still being ironed out in many cases, but with 100,000 2002 Explorers pre-ordered, I think the consumers are definately realizing where domestic (Ford) vehicles are today. Like my '00 GT mustang getting 22 MPG city with 5speed and pretty much flooring it. My girlfriend's Honda Accord 4cyl with ULEV (Ultra Low emissions Vehicle) is getting 20 MPG or less city, and she's a lead foot too. I don't think the extra gear I have is making up for the 4 extra cylinders(same number of valves, however!), but I am leaving her in the dust and using less fuel. But only time will tell who has the first break down!
Guess what, the answer is simple. The Tacoma is a much better truck. I wouldn't buy a Ranger if it were the last truck on Earth. Simply put, a Ranger is what you buy when you can't afford a YOTA! End of story. Any questions?
Which one is better? Only you know for sure but, here's the catch...what you know only works for you. Occasionaly you'll meet people who had the same thought. You'll know those people because they'll be drinvin' the same truck.
Just a little front porch philosophy.
John
Now you don't have to get TRD (i.e., you could get ST styled steel ~$500 or CW Chrome wheels ~$600 which come with the same tires as TRD) but SR5 without TRD...They're hard to find. I don't think dealers are willing to risk building up an inventory of potentially less-than-desireable package combinations.
Personally I don't need or want TRD but I could say the same about the Edge package. Why didn't Ford call theirs SVT 4X4 anyway??? The Edge? Sounds a bit hinky.
John
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -Albert Einstein
Different individuals have different wants and needs (other than just cost) satisfied by the truck the choose, so I think it is possible for there to be cases where the Ranger is a better match for folks..
According to the sales figures, it must be alot of folks..
So either way I looked at it I was going to pay the same price for either truck, and where did you think I thought the better value was? Not that I thought the Ford was bad, it's just that they wouldn't compete with the Toyota dealership. Same way with Nissan, they were the whole reason I didn't buy another Nissan.
There sticker price was $23,111 for an ext. cab 5sp, supercharged 4x4 and they wouldn't take any less than $21,500 with trade. After I picked myself up from laughing I went across the street and priced the Tacoma and the Ranger. So, from my stand point the Ford wasn't going to save me any money! Maybe the Ford dealership saw me and saw sucker, evidently Nissan did from their quote. But I, again I state I thought Toyota was more than comperable than Ford or Nissan..
As a person looking for the vehicle you described you've peaked my interest but I must say that I doubt the $20k number. If you're including the trade-in with your price that wouldn't be a fair number.
That is close to the price Toyota wanted 2 years ago for a non-TRD 4X4, the time frame I was looking.
By the spedo, my 99 just went over 40K, maybe 41K actual(I never adjusted the spedo after getting the 31 inch tires so at 50mph I am really doing 54mph. That means my odometer counts slower). Looked at the 40K service requirements, changed the oil and was on my way. . .Still using Mobil 1 5W30 and am well satisfied with the way the truck runs.
Eagle, the price is the huge difference! Along with just how much use you are going to get out of the TRD setup. With the Ranger offroad setup you get a limited slip diff which is a much better match for the everyday truck user. I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for. 21K for a V6 4x4 TRD loaded, noway, nohow. You got a bridge to sell?
Evidently Ford didn't think they could move it and Toyota did. I am not some Taco freak demanding that you bow to its structure, I was a Nissan freak who got a good price on a nice truck.
I would be glad to give the dealer's name and # if anyone is interested in checking out Tacos.
What was the deciding factor? service and price.. Given that if you own any vehicle long enough you will probably have to have it serviced. If you normally go to a dealership for work, then dealership quality (both in service and workmanship) should be a factor.
Sounds like he chose well..
It's my experience that most Toyota dealership choose not to go as low on their prices (regardless of what their radio ads say). Also that friends of mine (who've had thier toyota's in for service) would not recommend the dealerships.. (They like their Toyota, just not the service they received).
I actually drive 20 miles past the closest ford dealership to a different one to get my ford vehicle serviced, (so far for recall work and one warranty claim on my Windstar). My SuperDuty has had no problems (only 26k miles).
We were discussing traction and 4X4, and he said we don't need it in Massachusetts, they plow the roads. Needless to say, this friend hasn't been to Vermont skiing with me!!!
Anyhow, he said after thinking about it, he could always weld the rear axles together, and just buy cheapo tires every year for good traction. Who cares if they scrub? I thought this was some unique thinking, but really it makes sense in a strange sort of way.
(I stay away from mud and boulders, though!)
Also, I'd like to see you explain to me how I could build a standard Tacoma into a TRD using aftermarket parts for less than $1300. (don't forget about the labor charges either)
"I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for."
-what's your point? like most Ranger owners do????
If your needs in a truck don't involve super extreme off-roading, then these are options that go unused.
Its like claiming because brand A truck has a top speed of 120 mph, and brand B has a top speed 150mph, that brand B is better.. Not necessarily so as most folks will never see more than 75mph in their daily driving..
So each individual should compare the trucks based on options that are of use to them.