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Comments
Now I would agree that there is a marginal difference but you should consider you can't get the Ranger with the Off Road package unless you want the 5spd auto as well. Since I was shopping for a 4X4 truck with the Off Road Package, I therefore compare:
Ranger 4.0L V6 15/19 City/Highway (5 spd Auto)
Tacoma 3.4L V6 17/20 City/Highway (5 spd Manual)
Also, I don't see how you can compare the 3.0L to the 3.4L. There is a 40hp and a 35ft-lbs. torque difference. Please explain?
Hope that clears up any questions you had. Sorry for the ambiguity.
John
Our Expedition is no longer a virgin! Took it 4-wheeling every day we were in Moab. It worked great on the trails we chose. Granted, these were NOT difficult, like "Metal Masher", but were tough enough for me, thank you.
The Hummer club was staying at our hotel. About 35-40 Hummers, most of them black (?). These dudes 4-wheel in style! About a third of them were TRAILERED to Moab on 18-wheelers! YES, there were FOUR 18-wheeler flat beds in the parking lot that were loaded with Hummers on Sunday night for the ride home. One dude had his own rig: a Ford Super-Duty, with a Harley in the bed, pulling a flat-bed trailer with his Hummer and spare tires. The club had three full-time mechanics and their fully-equipped trailer at the hotel, and they were all busy after a trail run. Lots of them had Lincolns and Cadillacs to drive to dinner. Amazing how much damage can be done to an $80K vehicle in one day! But, I guess if you have so much money you don't know what to do with it, a Hummer is just another boy's toy.
Saw a Toyota 4-wheel club gathering before a run (about 20 vehicles). All early FJ40 Landcruisers or pre-86 pickups and 4-Runners, set up for SERIOUS 4-wheeling.
All the really serious trucks in town have solid front axles.
OK, Tacomas vs. Rangers: We saw two heavily modified Tacomas: lift kits, no bumpers, etc. One had serious body damage on the left side from laying it over. Sorry, we didn't see a single modified Ranger. Believe me, I looked.
You mention that quality costs money, however the 'rating' given I don't think is only a statement of quality, but more of a statement of how well does the owner like their truck and dealer service. The ratings don't say that the 2001 Tacoma is rated higher than the 2001 Ranger.
Few more of my comments:
- funny how the Mazda B-series rated so much higher than the Ranger, they are the same truck. So do Mazda buyers have lower expectations than Ford Ranger buyers, thus their rating was higher? Could the same thing be true for Toyota? What other human factors are involved when folks give their opinions..
-I see alot of folks opinions where they give there strengths and weaknesses. Often folks (across all brands) give some pretty discouraging weakness's but yet, the rating was 5stars..
Could it be for Toyota folks are more apt to put 5stars because of the belief 'you get what you paid for'?
- Note the opinions are for all model years of trucks.. I did a very quick scan and noticed that most of the Tacoma posts were for 1998 models or newer, whereas the majority of the Ranger posts involve pre-1998 rangers. Again, I didn't actually count the numbers, but doing a quick scan through, it seemed like this..How did the age of the truck affect one's opinion? (I do realize that there were some years where the Ranger's quality did struggle.. arg).
I would encourage everyone to look at data the link you referenced, it does make for some interesting reading..
- I guess I should post the same link in the Big3 vs. Tundra group, Looks like the F150 did better than the Tundra..
You have no idea how that occured. Maybe a mechanic or owner was topping off the transmission fluid, but spilled oil on a hot exhaust, we'll never know, but do you really think that is typical of a mass produced truck?
Also the 4.0L 2001 ranger get 17.7/25 mpg city/highway. And that's the biggest gas guzzler available for a Ranger.
Bess---> You said "-I see alot of folks opinions where they give there strengths and weaknesses. Often folks (across all brands) give some pretty discouraging weakness's but yet, the rating was 5stars..
Could it be for Toyota folks are more apt to put 5stars because of the belief 'you get what you paid for'? "
I guess that's why the olympic rating system always drop the highest and lowest scores. Besides there are plenty of ford people giving theirs 5-stars too. So what's up? Both trucks receive 5-star ratings, and both receive less than 2 star ratings. Some are about to reply (but the averages are....) but I'll cover that in a second...
All--->You can argue ratings and statistics all you want, but in the end you have got to realize what statistics are REALLY based on. There are lots of hidden factors in play. The old joke goes "You can have your head in the over, and your [non-permissible content removed] in the freezer, but on the average you're just fine". Maybe toyota owners, who paid so much more for their trucks, like to express their pride. Maybe Ford owners who can't maintain their vehicles, feel they've been cheated and verbalize/literalize their problems for all the world to see. Both of these are opinions and perceptions, but no one can submit proof otherwise. NO ONE. My philosophy is to take everything on a case by case basis. You really shouldn't be speaking until your butt has time riding/driving in both trucks. And please keep in mind the model changes, as trucks do change overtime. (duh)
Also Customers do show their demand daily. If people really wanted ULEV vehicles, they would by them. The prius, echo, and other hybrids/ High MPG cars are out there. People are buying them. But people want to have a little power, or fun when they drive (ie sport cars/SUV's). That's the law of supply and demand. If there is a demand, those who supply it will move products. But who wants to supply products that won't move? The Americans speak with thier wallets more than their ballots.
Ford sells more trucks hands down. (cold hard fact).
Ford sets truck sales record for 12th month in a row. (cold hard fact).
"The consumer preference is reflected in Ford Ranger sales, which rose 26 percent in April, making it the fourth best-selling vehicle in the U.S. this year." (cold hard fact)
Ranger is the best-selling compact pickup for 13 straight years (Getting close to 14 now?)(cold hard fact)
Beta VCRS are more expensive and said to be better than VHS, but what happened there folks?
The 4.0l v6 is 207hp/238lbs/ft. This is offered for more zoom with fuel economy still 17.7/25. (18/22 at edmunds)
The yota's 3.4 v6 is 190hp/220lbs/ft. Economy 18/22 on the S-Runner ONLY. Other models are 17/19or20.
All statistics are from the maker's site. Rear wheel statistics.
Only the Taco's 4 banger has 30 more hp(2.4 or 2.7 vs. ford 2.5) Torque is maybe 16-26 lbs/ft better (2.4 and 2.7 respectively, but at 4000k vs Ford's 2.5). Toyota economy is at best 22/25 while ford's 2.3 is 24/28. 2.5 22/26.
Ford does produce it's peak torque lower, and in the V-6 variety, there is ALWAYS more torque is available.
So in summary, Toyota makes a better 4 cylinder(for HP, and a better peak torque). Gas milage is definately on Ford's side, granted not by a huge amount.
I'd love to see the actual curves though.
All knowing--->More Ford complaints found? See my post above. That is more than likely attributed to more of them being on the road. There is not a mass produced product on the globe that is perfect EVERYTIME. I'm trying to change people's perception that more complaints needs to be considered with amount of total vehicles on the road/sold. It's the percentage that counts.
"Got Torque?"
All in all, I believe that the Ranger is above average quality but I still see an edge in Toyotas favor and personally fell that the extra money I paid for my Tacoma was worth it. Of course, that's just my opinion.
You can substantiate these in the Edmunds reviews of these trucks. I think you are mistaken about the mileage rating for the 4.0L 5spd Auto Ranger. It's 15/19. Maybe you weren't looking at the right model?
http://edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/4drsupercabxltoffroad4wdstylesidesb40l6cyl5a/prices.html
15/19
http://edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/2drsupercabxlt2wdw385aflaresidesb30l6cyl5a/prices.html
17/21
John
You're right though. I have no idea why the thing caught on fire. But it wasn't exactly a bill-board moment for Ford.
John
www.edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/2drregularcabedgeplus2wdflaresidesb40l6cyl5m/specs.html
All my figures are (or should be) with the manual 5-speed for the highest figures.
I heard talk of a redesign too on another board, but that usually means it's on the drawing board only. Since the new Edge line of rangers are selling well (can't hardly find any in the Dallas market)I doubt any changes in the next few years, albeit minor ones. I figure a redesign to be available around 2005 or 2006.
allknowing--->I understood ya. I guess something can be said for the Toyota's manufacturing, but at least any problems on the Ford end were fixed, and I'm guessing before it even became an issue/known to you? Glad to see you have a good Ford Dealer, some dealers out there are just plain theives. I also don't like the 94-98 mustangs, they are definately smaller and a little blah. But I love the style up until 1993, and the 1999 and up are starting to grow on me...
Currently Own: 1985 Toyota p/u
Problems to date (asside from oil changes, tuneups, new tires, shocks or other regular stuff):
1993 - The radiator developed a crack. I welded it.
1995 - The radiator crack opened again. Replaced the radiator.
1995 - Water pump failure. Replaced it.
1996 - Valve cover gasket starts to leak. Replace it and the main seal behind the cover.
1998 - Drove the truck from So Cal, to Northern Cal fully loaded. 1 month later, after 10+ years in the dry So Cal region, the exhaust manifold studs popped as the manifold warped in the new humidity. This happened on a Monday but got it fixed on Saturday even though it was a bit loud driving back and forth to the train station.
1999 - New water pump again. Did all the heater and radiator hoses as well.
2001 - A Good truck and has never broken down on me, which is a first with any car/truck I (or anyone in my family for that matter) have ever owned. I won't lie that it uses oil but until that last couple of months it was only at about 1 quart/per month if I didn't change the oil on time. I'm donating it as soon as the next one arrives and if the next one last's me another 16 years, I would gladly buy another.
Also I still drive it to work and back every day 60 miles round trip. If you think I've been easy on this truck keep in mind it got me through college and has spent 16 years on the Cal Freeway system in both LA and SF with a driver that thinks he's Chuck Yeager.
Cool?
John
Lets talke value here.
What do you Toyota crowd, who paid more than just a couple hundred dollars, for you Tacoma's say to a Ranger owner who paid less option for option and has had no problems with a Ranger truck? Who got the better value? You say its like playing Russian roulete? When over and over again it has been shown to you that this huge quality gap you wish there was between the Ranger and Tacoma does not exist.. Granted, as I have said over and over again, the Tacoma does have a slight edge, but NOT this huge gap Toyota owners want you to believe. And to try to convince people a TAcoma is actually less or only a few hundred dollars more than a Ranger is a joke. Anyone who educates themselves will immediatly see there is a sizeable price difference option for option when you compare these two trucks. Resale, I hope the Tacoma does resale for more, you paid more at purchase........
So far I'm quite pleased with this truck. The 4.0 has plenty of power, the 5 spd auto works great, the brake are good and I don't have any problems with the 4 doors. As a matter of fact the ranger reminds me of a little F-150, and that's not bad.
ROAD TRIP!!!!
Also I've had a similair experience with my 93 ford, as GDane's 85 Toyota. Only differences is mine is a 1993, and I didn't have any gasket leaks, nor exhaust manifold problems, and I only did the water pump once. Replaced the Radiator at 130k. I did have to replace my auto transmission at 120k miles, but this is good considering I put almost 20k miles a year on the truck and hot dogging it all the time. It's been to south padre island in texas, and saw it's share of sand dunes. It's also been up and down some scary grades of hills in Arkansas buffalo river area, and never got stuck or stranded or broken down. I've owned this truck since I was 17, and I'll be 24 in 2 weeks. In the 6 or so years I've owned it I've put over 80 thousand miles on it(over 135k total now). I also used to rev it hard and drop it into gear for burnouts (auto-trans remember) when I was younger, and max the speed on the highway all the time. I'm a much more sane driver today, but this Ford truck has been good to me and my wallet. It hasn't held any grudges over me on how I've driven it in the past. Hence the saying "Built Ford Tough"...
So issisteelman, I ask you, if Toyota is so much higher in quality, how come I'm not gettings loans left and right to repair my old, used and abused truck? Does Toyota's "MUCH higher quality" make a difference? If I owned a comparative Toyota truck, and it lasted like my Ford, the only difference would be the amount of money I paid(purchase and maintenance), and the badge on the back.
I guess I'll keep my "lower quality" truck, that's still performing as well (if not better) than any import equivalent. Since your stated "lower quality" quotient is nowhere to be seen, and is not a factor to this Ford Owner.
Vince8->People who say Explorers are prone to rollover, need to realize all SUV's are prone to rollovers. 2002 Explorers are even better than before, wider&longer stance, and the new independant rear suspension, and lower center of gravity too. The TV news are only one step ahead of the national inquirer. Half the stuff they do is gossip or speculation. The Explorer received bigger coverage because of how popular it is and how it outsells the other SUV's. So the media thought it could grab more viewers by broadbanding Explorer issues. Gotta fill up that allotted dayly timeblock every day!
Uh...Thanks for uh...clearing that one up. I was confused. Man I wish Sam Kennison was still around for posts like that. "Why do you keep torturing me...uhhhhh....ahhhhhhhh."
Actually the forum asked why wasn't anyone posting their Ole' Toyota story but people were posting about ole' Rangers. Just because Toyoyta added a name to their pickups doens't mean that my 85 is not associated with a Tacoma. In my opinion the Tacoma has been around since 1974. It's name was just misplaced until 1995 when they redesigned it. ;-)
John
Midnight -
Did I mention that Toyota is king and that's why I'm giving up my '85 but my Dad is keeping his '86 Ford Bronco that has 30k more miles than my Toyota. There's some irony for ya. Ford makes some darn good trucks.
John
followed by "Trust me, if you have the money, buy the Yota and save yourself possible misery as a Ranger owner."
Well, everyone can see where I'm going with that....
I also forgot if you ever mentioned owning a Ranger. So I'm kind of wondering how you think owning a Ranger is misery when plenty of people love the truck. I hope it's not because your dealer pointed you towards a Toyota because they say it's better quality for only a few hundred more. (Comparisons of MSRP or Invoice show a greater price difference however, but dealers actually pay a net price, which is slightly less than invoice, so the may have been playing profit margin games when offering their suggestion.) Don't forget that in addition to Rangers costing less, they also offer twice the amount of models vs. Tacoma's.
GreatDane--->On the H20 system, must be our higher climate, you're in Cali right? I'm in Texas where 110+ degree summers are common. Or just water on steel/iron... I guess I better flush the system with rust proofers/removers more often to help prevent it from happening again... Plus investing in oil and trans coolers with a separate fan always helps the wear and efficiency.
You mention than Toyota has obvioulsy made improvements in the last 15 years. I would suggest that Ford has as well.
It is ok for you to believe that you always get better quality if you pay more for a product.
I don't always see a direct correlation between price an quality..
They look much better in 4X4. Toyota did a good job of putting the 4X4 suspension, even if it is an IFS, together.
Anyone ever wonder what you will do when a CV joint on either vehicle blows while out four wheeling?
Reason I ask, just had to replace one on the 82 Rabbit. Loud bang, grinding noise and did not move an inch under power. At least my son was within 1/2 mile of the house. Hey, after 210,000 miles it deserved to be replaced. . .come to think of it, with that many miles, other than the sheet metal, what is original on that vehicle?
While not fatal, I see the CV joint setup as a negative for each vehicle. One would hope they were designed beefer for a 4X4, but who knows?
I now feel that the difference in quality between Ford and Toyota is minimal and either a Ford or a Toyota can be equally prone to problems. Its a crap shoot.
I've posted my experiences several times, should you care to search back and find the posts.
And, Dave comes in to this room with a price of 22,950 for a Tacoma (NON TRD)... Once again I question those who claim they bought a fully loaded TRD for 21K... Yeah right....
OMG.
You can get loaded full size trucks for that price.
I'm a little of topic here but my 99 Chevy S10 thats loaded except for power windows and power door locks I got for $16,000 and it has the electronically controlled auto trans, its 2wd and has posi.
I bet I could buy the same truck now, granted no 4wd for less than $17,000.
Smith and Wesson"
David, I agree with you on the rear doors. I do not have them on my 99, they were $500-600 more.
I think the new 4.0 and a manual are starting to hit the dealers. While the auto works ok, I just prefer the better crawl ratio you get with the manual in 4X4.
The newer hubs appear to be internal, there is not really a hub there. Like all electronic systems, if you get a missed engage/disengage, move the truck a few feet and do it again.
You should find a good, well equipped 4X4 Ranger for under 20K. Look for the deals and consider finance terms. When I got mine, I told the dealer I wanted 2.9% for 4 years. When he said they needed $5K down, I started to walk out and thanked him for his time. He said, "Ok, 3K down" to which I said, "Finance the whole thing, 2.9% 4 years." That is the terms I got. It was about $17.4 K for the truck.
I am almost at 41K on the Ranger. Planning on a trip to SW Colo, over to Utah up to Salt Lake, up into Idaho and over to the Tetons for vacation end of May beginning of June. Expect to have close to 45K when I return. Will surely hit some 4X4 trails on the way.
Gun Racks:
Whats the deal in Mass.? They forget about Lexington, Concord, a cetain bridge and the 2nd amendment to the Constitution? People died in that state to guarentee freedoms. Oh thats right, it is Teddy Kennedy's state. Guess it is ok to kill with a car off a bridge but you cannot have a gun rack. Glad I never moved back to the east coast where I was raised.
I have a rack most of the time and when I go to So. Colo. most racks often have a .22 in them to tag Coyote's and other destructive animals.
What General Gage (head of the Redcoats) did not accomplish in the 1700's, the MA legislature is doing today. It is sad that the "Cradle of Liberty" has fallen so far.
Over 16 years, including the new exhaust manifold, I've put about $1000 into it, minus normal maintenance (tires, oil and stuff). You'll notice there are 5 year gaps where the thing just drove without problems.
Midnight -
Originally from So Cal but moved to Nothern Cal after school for the dot bomb rush. The temperatures were more consistent from one day to the next in So Cal but in Nor Cal we'll hit 105 degrees in the East Bay area during the summer, and 28-32 degrees during the Winter. This is one reason I think my '85 finally starting having issues since it was used to the So Cal dry summers and not too cold winters.
2001 4X4 V6 Tacoma
5spd
Super White (Oak interior)
LX - SR5 (CH Chrome, Premium Sound, Tach, clock, tilt, RH visor vanity, Air)
PP - Power Package with Pwr mirrors
OF - Off Road TRD Package (includes AA Wheels, diff locker, shocks and tuned suspension)
FB - 4Hi Selector Switch
AB - ABS
CL - Cruise
BU - Bucket Seats
WR - Sliding Rear Window
FL - Floor Mats
$22,375 Sale Price. I calculated the invoice price at about $22,127. The MSRP is approx $24,900.
Did you even test drive anything else?
STANDARD EQUIPMENT
on a Ranger, for about $3+K less.
A locker, should you desire, torque activated, not electrical as I understand the Tacoma's is, can be added for $5-600.
A good set of Rancho shocks is about $325.
The Ranger engine has more up and more torque.
Now the Tacoma is a nice truck, but you can get a Ranger set up like that Tacoma for about $19.5K.
But unless you do some real serious Moab type climbing, you will not have a need for a locker. Buy a winch, more uses for that like pulling out a Tacoma that get in over its head. . .
FORD = "Fix Or Repair Daily"
FORD = "Found On the Road Dead"
Well, you get the picture. See you at camp.............Steelman.
Steelman--->How about "First On Race Day? Does that mean Ford wins all races? (Rangers will with their torque...
Toyota... "Terrible Offroading, You Over-Talent A$$h@le", or "Tis Only Your Opinion Today Anyways".
Tacoma... "To Always Cost Outragously More, Asymptomatically." "Toyota Awesome Capability? Obviously Miss-Assumed."
I don't believe the above, but they are just mirrors of your perception stated in post 1248.
People who use labels such are judging every book by it's cover, just because they come from the same publisher. I like those type of people because you can really tell how full of crap they are. I smile and let them live their lie.
So next time you want to post "Ford owners are living a lie, Toyota rules" etc etc, put some facts in there that back up your BOLD statement. You didn't answer my question as to why you think we're "living in misery", as my truck of "lower quality" has had a minimum of problems and is still living a long and healthy life. See posts 1224 and 1228, I'd love to see what you have to say to reply.
People who think any of the above sayings are absolute need to just buy a Calvin sticker with him peeing on "insert make here". It's all the same. Bashing without knowing, or caring to know.
"...And knowing is half the battle!"
allknowing--->Do all toyota owners have a "holier than thou" mentality? Or is that a way of dealing with the higher cost you paid?
Also Toyota offers the extra doors, just not in the US.
I guess -Humility- isn't a factor of being "higher class"?I'm sorry to hear you actually think that...