TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

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Comments

  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I must have missed where I back-stepped. I still see that the Tacoma has a quality edge, in my opinion and based on my experience, but as I typically say, the Ranger is a great truck too. The Ranger is certainly above the norm. regarding quality and depending on your preferences, is certainly a better match for some people. Both trucks have there strong points. If you are trying to build a case because I didn't comment on the complaint posts, I don't see your point. I went to the NHTSA site and put in the year of my Tacoma, 2000, and there were 36 complaints listed. The same year for the Ranger had 220. Even considering repeats, the Ranger appears to have a lot more complaints listed. That being said, I didn't comment because I don't think that those lists are necessarily a fair tool to use to judge either truck as I don't know how or where they get the information and it doesn't reflect the amount of satisfied owners that may overwhelm the complainers. In other words I'm not comfortable with the accuracy of the data and would rather not comment on it. I don't see any back-stepping, just my usual opinion and your usual poor observations.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Are available on Edmunds including the horse power and torque ratings for both the Ranger and the Tacoma so I'll let you look them up. I was just pointing out that the Tacoma beats the Ranger in the gas mileage category.

    Now I would agree that there is a marginal difference but you should consider you can't get the Ranger with the Off Road package unless you want the 5spd auto as well. Since I was shopping for a 4X4 truck with the Off Road Package, I therefore compare:

    Ranger 4.0L V6 15/19 City/Highway (5 spd Auto)
    Tacoma 3.4L V6 17/20 City/Highway (5 spd Manual)

    Also, I don't see how you can compare the 3.0L to the 3.4L. There is a 40hp and a 35ft-lbs. torque difference. Please explain?
    Hope that clears up any questions you had. Sorry for the ambiguity.

    John
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Got back from Moab late testerday under warm, blue skies. Left in a blizzard on Friday. Two upside-down pickups near Georgetown kept my speed low. Once on the other side of the Eisenhower tunnel, the weather improved.

    Our Expedition is no longer a virgin! Took it 4-wheeling every day we were in Moab. It worked great on the trails we chose. Granted, these were NOT difficult, like "Metal Masher", but were tough enough for me, thank you.

    The Hummer club was staying at our hotel. About 35-40 Hummers, most of them black (?). These dudes 4-wheel in style! About a third of them were TRAILERED to Moab on 18-wheelers! YES, there were FOUR 18-wheeler flat beds in the parking lot that were loaded with Hummers on Sunday night for the ride home. One dude had his own rig: a Ford Super-Duty, with a Harley in the bed, pulling a flat-bed trailer with his Hummer and spare tires. The club had three full-time mechanics and their fully-equipped trailer at the hotel, and they were all busy after a trail run. Lots of them had Lincolns and Cadillacs to drive to dinner. Amazing how much damage can be done to an $80K vehicle in one day! But, I guess if you have so much money you don't know what to do with it, a Hummer is just another boy's toy.

    Saw a Toyota 4-wheel club gathering before a run (about 20 vehicles). All early FJ40 Landcruisers or pre-86 pickups and 4-Runners, set up for SERIOUS 4-wheeling.

    All the really serious trucks in town have solid front axles.

    OK, Tacomas vs. Rangers: We saw two heavily modified Tacomas: lift kits, no bumpers, etc. One had serious body damage on the left side from laying it over. Sorry, we didn't see a single modified Ranger. Believe me, I looked.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Again, you post another well thought out post with both your opinion and documentation.. I do appreciate the fact that you and allknowing at least give the appearance of being open-minded..

    You mention that quality costs money, however the 'rating' given I don't think is only a statement of quality, but more of a statement of how well does the owner like their truck and dealer service. The ratings don't say that the 2001 Tacoma is rated higher than the 2001 Ranger.

    Few more of my comments:

    - funny how the Mazda B-series rated so much higher than the Ranger, they are the same truck. So do Mazda buyers have lower expectations than Ford Ranger buyers, thus their rating was higher? Could the same thing be true for Toyota? What other human factors are involved when folks give their opinions..

    -I see alot of folks opinions where they give there strengths and weaknesses. Often folks (across all brands) give some pretty discouraging weakness's but yet, the rating was 5stars..
    Could it be for Toyota folks are more apt to put 5stars because of the belief 'you get what you paid for'?

    - Note the opinions are for all model years of trucks.. I did a very quick scan and noticed that most of the Tacoma posts were for 1998 models or newer, whereas the majority of the Ranger posts involve pre-1998 rangers. Again, I didn't actually count the numbers, but doing a quick scan through, it seemed like this..How did the age of the truck affect one's opinion? (I do realize that there were some years where the Ranger's quality did struggle.. arg).

    I would encourage everyone to look at data the link you referenced, it does make for some interesting reading..

    - I guess I should post the same link in the Big3 vs. Tundra group, Looks like the F150 did better than the Tundra..
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Great dane--->I guess that Ranger owner was a fool for paying for the Engine bay fire option.
    You have no idea how that occured. Maybe a mechanic or owner was topping off the transmission fluid, but spilled oil on a hot exhaust, we'll never know, but do you really think that is typical of a mass produced truck?

    Also the 4.0L 2001 ranger get 17.7/25 mpg city/highway. And that's the biggest gas guzzler available for a Ranger.

    Bess---> You said "-I see alot of folks opinions where they give there strengths and weaknesses. Often folks (across all brands) give some pretty discouraging weakness's but yet, the rating was 5stars..
    Could it be for Toyota folks are more apt to put 5stars because of the belief 'you get what you paid for'? "

    I guess that's why the olympic rating system always drop the highest and lowest scores. Besides there are plenty of ford people giving theirs 5-stars too. So what's up? Both trucks receive 5-star ratings, and both receive less than 2 star ratings. Some are about to reply (but the averages are....) but I'll cover that in a second...



    All--->You can argue ratings and statistics all you want, but in the end you have got to realize what statistics are REALLY based on. There are lots of hidden factors in play. The old joke goes "You can have your head in the over, and your [non-permissible content removed] in the freezer, but on the average you're just fine". Maybe toyota owners, who paid so much more for their trucks, like to express their pride. Maybe Ford owners who can't maintain their vehicles, feel they've been cheated and verbalize/literalize their problems for all the world to see. Both of these are opinions and perceptions, but no one can submit proof otherwise. NO ONE. My philosophy is to take everything on a case by case basis. You really shouldn't be speaking until your butt has time riding/driving in both trucks. And please keep in mind the model changes, as trucks do change overtime. (duh)

    Also Customers do show their demand daily. If people really wanted ULEV vehicles, they would by them. The prius, echo, and other hybrids/ High MPG cars are out there. People are buying them. But people want to have a little power, or fun when they drive (ie sport cars/SUV's). That's the law of supply and demand. If there is a demand, those who supply it will move products. But who wants to supply products that won't move? The Americans speak with thier wallets more than their ballots.

    Ford sells more trucks hands down. (cold hard fact).
    Ford sets truck sales record for 12th month in a row. (cold hard fact).
    "The consumer preference is reflected in Ford Ranger sales, which rose 26 percent in April, making it the fourth best-selling vehicle in the U.S. this year." (cold hard fact)
    Ranger is the best-selling compact pickup for 13 straight years (Getting close to 14 now?)(cold hard fact)

    Beta VCRS are more expensive and said to be better than VHS, but what happened there folks?
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Great Dane--->The 3.0l v6 is 150hp and 185 lbs/ft. This is offered for the fuel economy at 18.9/27.8(17/22 according to edmunds).
    The 4.0l v6 is 207hp/238lbs/ft. This is offered for more zoom with fuel economy still 17.7/25. (18/22 at edmunds)
    The yota's 3.4 v6 is 190hp/220lbs/ft. Economy 18/22 on the S-Runner ONLY. Other models are 17/19or20.
    All statistics are from the maker's site. Rear wheel statistics.
    Only the Taco's 4 banger has 30 more hp(2.4 or 2.7 vs. ford 2.5) Torque is maybe 16-26 lbs/ft better (2.4 and 2.7 respectively, but at 4000k vs Ford's 2.5). Toyota economy is at best 22/25 while ford's 2.3 is 24/28. 2.5 22/26.

    Ford does produce it's peak torque lower, and in the V-6 variety, there is ALWAYS more torque is available.
    So in summary, Toyota makes a better 4 cylinder(for HP, and a better peak torque). Gas milage is definately on Ford's side, granted not by a huge amount.

    I'd love to see the actual curves though.

    All knowing--->More Ford complaints found? See my post above. That is more than likely attributed to more of them being on the road. There is not a mass produced product on the globe that is perfect EVERYTIME. I'm trying to change people's perception that more complaints needs to be considered with amount of total vehicles on the road/sold. It's the percentage that counts.

    "Got Torque?"
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I try to base my opinion, for the most part, on my own experience but I must admit that it's hard to ignore the fact that most publications and polls rate the Tacoma higher than Ford. My wife drives a Ford and I Drive a Toyota. Her truck has been a good truck and I would recommend the Ranger to others, however, I have had 3 or four recalls vs. 0 for the tacoma and a few major repairs (Bad tie rod ends and valve body) on her Ford vs. none so far on the Tacoma. The Ford dealers treated me well but I don't like returning to the dealer in the first few years of owning a vehicle. I know of others that have never had to take their Ranger in, aside from the recalls, so maybe I have just been unlucky. I've worked on 94-98 Mustangs and haven't been impressed at all with the designs and/or quality and also use a 98 Explorer for work which has had several recalls and design flaws.
    All in all, I believe that the Ranger is above average quality but I still see an edge in Toyotas favor and personally fell that the extra money I paid for my Tacoma was worth it. Of course, that's just my opinion.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Where did you get those numbers for the mileage? I got mine from the EPA testing of both vehicles but this information is widely available at both edmunds and kbb.com.


    You can substantiate these in the Edmunds reviews of these trucks. I think you are mistaken about the mileage rating for the 4.0L 5spd Auto Ranger. It's 15/19. Maybe you weren't looking at the right model?


    http://edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/4drsupercabxltoffroad4wdstylesidesb40l6cyl5a/prices.html


              15/19


    http://edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/2drsupercabxlt2wdw385aflaresidesb30l6cyl5a/prices.html

              17/21


    John

  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    It looked like a late model that was being picked up from the side of the road. I don't think it was the result of an ad hoc gasoline line repair.

    You're right though. I have no idea why the thing caught on fire. But it wasn't exactly a bill-board moment for Ford.

    John
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Does anyone know of any information on these yet? I'm curious to see what Ford has come up with since I have heard talk of a redesign.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    My last post was ALMOST in english. That's what you get when you write in a hurry.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Great Dane---> My figures were from ford's, toyota's and edmunds websites(second post). The first post came strictly from ford's specs on the 4.0l engine, but I think I'm looking at a regular cab, and you a super cab. That may be why we are off. There was just too many models to list, so I was just searching by engine/trans type only. So it's not an exact science. :) Besides dump a cat back exhaust on and a K&N and any figure will improve.

    www.edmunds.com/new/2001/ford/ranger/2drregularcabedgeplus2wdflaresidesb40l6cyl5m/specs.html

    All my figures are (or should be) with the manual 5-speed for the highest figures.

    I heard talk of a redesign too on another board, but that usually means it's on the drawing board only. Since the new Edge line of rangers are selling well (can't hardly find any in the Dallas market)I doubt any changes in the next few years, albeit minor ones. I figure a redesign to be available around 2005 or 2006.

    allknowing--->I understood ya. I guess something can be said for the Toyota's manufacturing, but at least any problems on the Ford end were fixed, and I'm guessing before it even became an issue/known to you? Glad to see you have a good Ford Dealer, some dealers out there are just plain theives. I also don't like the 94-98 mustangs, they are definately smaller and a little blah. But I love the style up until 1993, and the 1999 and up are starting to grow on me...
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    and noticed most of the Toyotas were newer and the RAngers older. It also brings to mind my friend who owns a TRD and his hiding problems from me not telling anyone when something does go wrong with his truck. I wonder how many Toyota owners are not telling the truth or are embarassed to tell the truth about their vehicles because all Toyotas are supposed to be PPPPPPEEEERFECT....:=)
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Chevron/Mobil in the area are offering 87 octane at about $1.71. 92/93 octane is around $1.89/1.91. I don't recall the mid-grade, but it must be in the middle somewhere...
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I bought my Taco at a dealership that sells both Fords and Toyotas. Believe it or not, the sales people repeatedly steered me towards the Tacos as they felt the quality was a little better. Additionally, the price difference was relatively insignificant (a few hundred dollars). So, I did the smart thing and opted for quality over cost savings. The little extra money is well worth the piece of mind that comes with owning a YOTA.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    How's this?

    Currently Own: 1985 Toyota p/u
    Problems to date (asside from oil changes, tuneups, new tires, shocks or other regular stuff):

    1993 - The radiator developed a crack. I welded it.
    1995 - The radiator crack opened again. Replaced the radiator.
    1995 - Water pump failure. Replaced it.

    1996 - Valve cover gasket starts to leak. Replace it and the main seal behind the cover.

    1998 - Drove the truck from So Cal, to Northern Cal fully loaded. 1 month later, after 10+ years in the dry So Cal region, the exhaust manifold studs popped as the manifold warped in the new humidity. This happened on a Monday but got it fixed on Saturday even though it was a bit loud driving back and forth to the train station.

    1999 - New water pump again. Did all the heater and radiator hoses as well.

    2001 - A Good truck and has never broken down on me, which is a first with any car/truck I (or anyone in my family for that matter) have ever owned. I won't lie that it uses oil but until that last couple of months it was only at about 1 quart/per month if I didn't change the oil on time. I'm donating it as soon as the next one arrives and if the next one last's me another 16 years, I would gladly buy another.

    Also I still drive it to work and back every day 60 miles round trip. If you think I've been easy on this truck keep in mind it got me through college and has spent 16 years on the Cal Freeway system in both LA and SF with a driver that thinks he's Chuck Yeager.
    Cool?

    John
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    here in the NW region. unleaded now about 1.75 a gallon.
    Lets talke value here.
    What do you Toyota crowd, who paid more than just a couple hundred dollars, for you Tacoma's say to a Ranger owner who paid less option for option and has had no problems with a Ranger truck? Who got the better value? You say its like playing Russian roulete? When over and over again it has been shown to you that this huge quality gap you wish there was between the Ranger and Tacoma does not exist.. Granted, as I have said over and over again, the Tacoma does have a slight edge, but NOT this huge gap Toyota owners want you to believe. And to try to convince people a TAcoma is actually less or only a few hundred dollars more than a Ranger is a joke. Anyone who educates themselves will immediatly see there is a sizeable price difference option for option when you compare these two trucks. Resale, I hope the Tacoma does resale for more, you paid more at purchase........
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I think that they've worked a lot of the bugs out in the newest Mustangs but be careful with pre 98 models. The Air conditioning compressor, the plastic intake manifold, and the front sway bar seems to have common problems. The cars drive great and have plenty of power but every person I know that owns a Mustang in those years, and I really mean every one, has had the same problems. On the newer Mustangs, however, I've heard nothing but praise but I personally like the styling of the earlier ones better. Always something I guess or maybe I'm just hard to please. For the money it's hard to match the performance and I'd take one over a Camaro any day.
  • 1busman1busman Member Posts: 33
    I just purchased a new 2001 ranger 4dr, xlt, 4x4 off-road with a cab high shell. So far the only complaint is the gas gage, drops like a rock. I was pleasantly surprised though, when I filled the gas tank, I actually didn't use that much gas. On the first tank full I averaged 16 mpg. Since then I have taken a trip from the San Francisco Bay Area to Portland, OR and back. While driving at 70 to 75 mph in extremely heavy head winds the ranger averaged 14.9 mpg. After the winds died down, the mileage went up to 17.3 mpg, but alot of this was in mountainous terrain. On the final leg the mileage jumped to 19.4 while maintaining a 70 mph average. I might add that this truck had only 590 miles on it when I started this trip. On the return trip the truck averaged 18.5 mpg while driving about 75 mph with the a/c on.
    So far I'm quite pleased with this truck. The 4.0 has plenty of power, the 5 spd auto works great, the brake are good and I don't have any problems with the 4 doors. As a matter of fact the ranger reminds me of a little F-150, and that's not bad.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Sounds like you got a good truck. Our new Tacoma will be in soon. I think the first thing we're gonna do is.............

    ROAD TRIP!!!!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Front page news in the Metro NW section of the Oregonian there was a lawsuit against the Toyota 4-runner for rollover! Others are pending.. Why in the He.. don't we hear about these things on the news? or nation wide? Its NOT only the Explorer ALL SUV's are in question. The Explorer got hammered because its the number one selling SUV, and NOONE likes a winner.... The lawsuit was for 7.6million..
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    You just wrote about a 1985 Toyota pickup. In case you didn't know, the Tacoma line wasn't around in 1985. This is a Tacoma vs. Ranger site, not a Toyota vs. Ford site. Even if it was Toyota vs. Ford, I cannot think of anyone who is being honest who doesn't think that Toyota quality is MUCH higher than Ford quality. Look at the Camry, 4-Runner, Lexus, etc. Let's face it folks, YOTAS rule!
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    issisteelman--->The only absolute rule is that there is no absolute rule. You might also notice Greatdane didn't say 1985 Tacoma, he said 1985 Toyota Pick/up...

    Also I've had a similair experience with my 93 ford, as GDane's 85 Toyota. Only differences is mine is a 1993, and I didn't have any gasket leaks, nor exhaust manifold problems, and I only did the water pump once. Replaced the Radiator at 130k. I did have to replace my auto transmission at 120k miles, but this is good considering I put almost 20k miles a year on the truck and hot dogging it all the time. It's been to south padre island in texas, and saw it's share of sand dunes. It's also been up and down some scary grades of hills in Arkansas buffalo river area, and never got stuck or stranded or broken down. I've owned this truck since I was 17, and I'll be 24 in 2 weeks. In the 6 or so years I've owned it I've put over 80 thousand miles on it(over 135k total now). I also used to rev it hard and drop it into gear for burnouts (auto-trans remember) when I was younger, and max the speed on the highway all the time. I'm a much more sane driver today, but this Ford truck has been good to me and my wallet. It hasn't held any grudges over me on how I've driven it in the past. Hence the saying "Built Ford Tough"...

    So issisteelman, I ask you, if Toyota is so much higher in quality, how come I'm not gettings loans left and right to repair my old, used and abused truck? Does Toyota's "MUCH higher quality" make a difference? If I owned a comparative Toyota truck, and it lasted like my Ford, the only difference would be the amount of money I paid(purchase and maintenance), and the badge on the back.

    I guess I'll keep my "lower quality" truck, that's still performing as well (if not better) than any import equivalent. Since your stated "lower quality" quotient is nowhere to be seen, and is not a factor to this Ford Owner.

    Vince8->People who say Explorers are prone to rollover, need to realize all SUV's are prone to rollovers. 2002 Explorers are even better than before, wider&longer stance, and the new independant rear suspension, and lower center of gravity too. The TV news are only one step ahead of the national inquirer. Half the stuff they do is gossip or speculation. The Explorer received bigger coverage because of how popular it is and how it outsells the other SUV's. So the media thought it could grab more viewers by broadbanding Explorer issues. Gotta fill up that allotted dayly timeblock every day!
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Uh.....gee....thanks.....I did't....uh...notice the Tacoma wasn't around in 1985.

    Uh...Thanks for uh...clearing that one up. I was confused. Man I wish Sam Kennison was still around for posts like that. "Why do you keep torturing me...uhhhhh....ahhhhhhhh."

    Actually the forum asked why wasn't anyone posting their Ole' Toyota story but people were posting about ole' Rangers. Just because Toyoyta added a name to their pickups doens't mean that my 85 is not associated with a Tacoma. In my opinion the Tacoma has been around since 1974. It's name was just misplaced until 1995 when they redesigned it. ;-)

    John
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Of the world unite. Why is the water system the first to go?

    Midnight -
    Did I mention that Toyota is king and that's why I'm giving up my '85 but my Dad is keeping his '86 Ford Bronco that has 30k more miles than my Toyota. There's some irony for ya. Ford makes some darn good trucks.

    John
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    Well then, I hope your post on your old 85 Yota was not attempting to imply that new Yotas (and specifically Tacoma models) would have quality problems. Obviously Toyota has improved its product over the last 15 years. And it bears repeating that the small extra cost for a Tacoma is well worth the piece of mind that comes with owning a higher quality truck. So kids, don't believe everything you read on this web site. Trust me, if you have the money, buy the Yota and save yourself possible misery as a Ranger owner. See you on the logging roads..............Steelman.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Steelman says "So kids, don't believe everything you read on this web site. "
    followed by "Trust me, if you have the money, buy the Yota and save yourself possible misery as a Ranger owner."

    Well, everyone can see where I'm going with that.... :)

    I also forgot if you ever mentioned owning a Ranger. So I'm kind of wondering how you think owning a Ranger is misery when plenty of people love the truck. I hope it's not because your dealer pointed you towards a Toyota because they say it's better quality for only a few hundred more. (Comparisons of MSRP or Invoice show a greater price difference however, but dealers actually pay a net price, which is slightly less than invoice, so the may have been playing profit margin games when offering their suggestion.) Don't forget that in addition to Rangers costing less, they also offer twice the amount of models vs. Tacoma's.

    GreatDane--->On the H20 system, must be our higher climate, you're in Cali right? I'm in Texas where 110+ degree summers are common. Or just water on steel/iron... I guess I better flush the system with rust proofers/removers more often to help prevent it from happening again... Plus investing in oil and trans coolers with a separate fan always helps the wear and efficiency.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Now I came across a stepside Tacoma that wasn't a 4x4 or PreRunner model and it didn't look as good. The Tacoma looks really good with off-road tires but pretty bad, in my opinion, with smaller tires. That's one thing about the Ranger. It looks pretty decent in both the 2x2 and 4x4 versions.
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    actually, I think virtually every pickup (or suv) looks bad with small tires. look at the 2wd dodge dakota next to the 4wd model with the 31" tires. night/day difference. same with F150, tacoma, explorer, etc etc. sometimes it's hard to believe that it's really the same body and sheetmetal.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    I honestly don't think that Toyota quality is MUCH higher than Ford.
    You mention than Toyota has obvioulsy made improvements in the last 15 years. I would suggest that Ford has as well.

    It is ok for you to believe that you always get better quality if you pay more for a product.
    I don't always see a direct correlation between price an quality..
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Would agree with you. The basic Tacoma is way too low, a rear spring system that is too long/thin. I think it is about 6 inches off the ground.

    They look much better in 4X4. Toyota did a good job of putting the 4X4 suspension, even if it is an IFS, together.

    Anyone ever wonder what you will do when a CV joint on either vehicle blows while out four wheeling?

    Reason I ask, just had to replace one on the 82 Rabbit. Loud bang, grinding noise and did not move an inch under power. At least my son was within 1/2 mile of the house. Hey, after 210,000 miles it deserved to be replaced. . .come to think of it, with that many miles, other than the sheet metal, what is original on that vehicle?

    While not fatal, I see the CV joint setup as a negative for each vehicle. One would hope they were designed beefer for a 4X4, but who knows?
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    My personal experiences with TWO Tacomas, a '95 and a '99 would surely indicate that Tacomas TRULY have quality problems (and more of them) that didn't exist in the earlier ('89-'94) Toyota trucks.

    I now feel that the difference in quality between Ford and Toyota is minimal and either a Ford or a Toyota can be equally prone to problems. Its a crap shoot.

    I've posted my experiences several times, should you care to search back and find the posts.
  • davidb72davidb72 Member Posts: 174
    OK, I test drove a Taco today. It was nice, any new vehicle is nice. My question is this... How much over invoice do they get for them? The sticker on the truck was 24180. Salesman said he would sell it for 22950 with 4.9 for 60 mos. Good or no? It is 4x4, V6, 5 spd, cruise, SR5, blah blah blah... Help!?!@!$@%$@#$@!~%*&^*#$%
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    have you test driven anything else comparable? Ranger with new SOHC v6 goes for about 18-19K. In the paper right now I see a 4door XLT ranger for 18,888 and 7 to choose from.. Frontiers with the S/C 3.3 can be had for 22,950 with more options also.. You can also get a Dakota V8 for 22,950! Shop around and test drive all the options... Toyotas are good truck don't get me wrong, but there are better values out there... My opinion, before I get jumped on by the Toyota Yakuza...
    And, Dave comes in to this room with a price of 22,950 for a Tacoma (NON TRD)... Once again I question those who claim they bought a fully loaded TRD for 21K... Yeah right....
  • jim4444jim4444 Member Posts: 124
    For a compact truck??

    OMG.

    You can get loaded full size trucks for that price.

    I'm a little of topic here but my 99 Chevy S10 thats loaded except for power windows and power door locks I got for $16,000 and it has the electronically controlled auto trans, its 2wd and has posi.

    I bet I could buy the same truck now, granted no 4wd for less than $17,000.
  • davidb72davidb72 Member Posts: 174
    Well, it was a nice truck. You can check my profile, I've had a Ranger since 1995. It has 110,000 miles on it now and I really don't have any problems. I would like to have 4wd though. The only problem I'm having is finding a Ford with the 4.0 and a 5 speed. One thing that could keep me out of the Toyota is the lack of a 3rd or 4th door. Anyone who has ever tried to get something big into the extended cab can confirm that it is a real P I T A!!! I can't understand why Toyota (or Nissan or Dodge for that matter) can't at least put a 3rd door on their mini trucks. Thanks for all your help and opinions.
  • 2k1trd2k1trd Member Posts: 301
    Ah toyota,dodge and nissan all offer 4 door mini's.
  • davidb72davidb72 Member Posts: 174
    Not 4 full doors, 3 or 4 doors on an extended cab (you know, those little suicide doors). I think those 4 door trucks look stupid. Use your imagination, did anyone else have a hard time understanding what I was getting at?
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I understood you. I was looking at a 99 Ranger with the little doors. I liked it, and didn't even know they had such a thing. It was like a bonus. I figure it would be good for letting the dog in and out, and to slide the shotgun case in onto the floor (window racks illegal in MA).
  • davidb72davidb72 Member Posts: 174
    Thank you! I'm glad it wasn't too complicated. Too bad about the window rack. I'm not even sure what the law is in PA, I put my pistol, rifle, or shotgun in the extended cab in a case when I'm transporting them. A rack would be cool, but in this day and age it would be an invitation to steal them! I saw a good bumper sticker on a pickup the other day..."There is nothing in this truck that is worth your life." I liked that one!
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    "The original POINT CLICK and SHOOT was from
    Smith and Wesson"

    David, I agree with you on the rear doors. I do not have them on my 99, they were $500-600 more.

    I think the new 4.0 and a manual are starting to hit the dealers. While the auto works ok, I just prefer the better crawl ratio you get with the manual in 4X4.

    The newer hubs appear to be internal, there is not really a hub there. Like all electronic systems, if you get a missed engage/disengage, move the truck a few feet and do it again.

    You should find a good, well equipped 4X4 Ranger for under 20K. Look for the deals and consider finance terms. When I got mine, I told the dealer I wanted 2.9% for 4 years. When he said they needed $5K down, I started to walk out and thanked him for his time. He said, "Ok, 3K down" to which I said, "Finance the whole thing, 2.9% 4 years." That is the terms I got. It was about $17.4 K for the truck.

    I am almost at 41K on the Ranger. Planning on a trip to SW Colo, over to Utah up to Salt Lake, up into Idaho and over to the Tetons for vacation end of May beginning of June. Expect to have close to 45K when I return. Will surely hit some 4X4 trails on the way.

    Gun Racks:

    Whats the deal in Mass.? They forget about Lexington, Concord, a cetain bridge and the 2nd amendment to the Constitution? People died in that state to guarentee freedoms. Oh thats right, it is Teddy Kennedy's state. Guess it is ok to kill with a car off a bridge but you cannot have a gun rack. Glad I never moved back to the east coast where I was raised.
    I have a rack most of the time and when I go to So. Colo. most racks often have a .22 in them to tag Coyote's and other destructive animals.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Actually, in MA, you need to have your rifle cased and locked while transporting, if I am not mistaken.

    What General Gage (head of the Redcoats) did not accomplish in the 1700's, the MA legislature is doing today. It is sad that the "Cradle of Liberty" has fallen so far.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    I agree with you. My post on my '85 was to illustrate how little maintenance my truck has needed.

    Over 16 years, including the new exhaust manifold, I've put about $1000 into it, minus normal maintenance (tires, oil and stuff). You'll notice there are 5 year gaps where the thing just drove without problems.

    Midnight -
    Originally from So Cal but moved to Nothern Cal after school for the dot bomb rush. The temperatures were more consistent from one day to the next in So Cal but in Nor Cal we'll hit 105 degrees in the East Bay area during the summer, and 28-32 degrees during the Winter. This is one reason I think my '85 finally starting having issues since it was used to the So Cal dry summers and not too cold winters.
  • ebbgreatdaneebbgreatdane Member Posts: 278
    Here was out deal. Easy Ranger owners...I know Rangers are less expensive, but I wanted the Toy.

    2001 4X4 V6 Tacoma
    5spd
    Super White (Oak interior)
    LX - SR5 (CH Chrome, Premium Sound, Tach, clock, tilt, RH visor vanity, Air)
    PP - Power Package with Pwr mirrors
    OF - Off Road TRD Package (includes AA Wheels, diff locker, shocks and tuned suspension)
    FB - 4Hi Selector Switch
    AB - ABS
    CL - Cruise
    BU - Bucket Seats
    WR - Sliding Rear Window
    FL - Floor Mats

    $22,375 Sale Price. I calculated the invoice price at about $22,127. The MSRP is approx $24,900.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the roof!! 22.5K for a compact 4x4 truck! Its people like you that cause Toyota not to lower their prices..
    Did you even test drive anything else?
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    You will find most of the options listed by ebb for the Tacoma as

    STANDARD EQUIPMENT

    on a Ranger, for about $3+K less.

    A locker, should you desire, torque activated, not electrical as I understand the Tacoma's is, can be added for $5-600.

    A good set of Rancho shocks is about $325.

    The Ranger engine has more up and more torque.

    Now the Tacoma is a nice truck, but you can get a Ranger set up like that Tacoma for about $19.5K.

    But unless you do some real serious Moab type climbing, you will not have a need for a locker. Buy a winch, more uses for that like pulling out a Tacoma that get in over its head. . .
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    Why can't you Ranger fanatics face the truth. Toyota quality is better than Ford quality. Why else would people come up with:

    FORD = "Fix Or Repair Daily"
    FORD = "Found On the Road Dead"

    Well, you get the picture. See you at camp.............Steelman.
  • davidb72davidb72 Member Posts: 174
    I'm really torn here, my 1995 Ranger has been basically trouble free. If I could find a 4.0 with a 5 speed I'd be happy. I thought the Toyota had a real nice feel though, maybe a little stiff, but I'm used to 4x2 not 4x4. The real deal breaker may be the lack of a third or fourth door on the EXTENDED CAB models. How can they not offer that when the other manufactureres are???
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Toyota doesn't offer the third door because they tend to make a conserted effort not to offer options that X-Ford owners want. That keeps the average American in lower class vehicles like the Ranger and higher class people, like myself, in superior vehicles like the Tacoma.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Davidb-->You can have 5spd manual or auto 5 speed as well, but unless you want 4x4, it appears you have to go with flareside. They are also very hard to keep in stock, as Rangers are the 4th best selling vehicle in the US this year. I'm gonna have to order mine off invoice. It's worth the wait for the exact truck I/you want anyways, as all the options are yours. The only compact truck with more power than a 4.0l Ranger is a dodge dakote with magnum v8.

    Steelman--->How about "First On Race Day? Does that mean Ford wins all races? (Rangers will with their torque... :)
    Toyota... "Terrible Offroading, You Over-Talent A$$h@le", or "Tis Only Your Opinion Today Anyways".
    Tacoma... "To Always Cost Outragously More, Asymptomatically." "Toyota Awesome Capability? Obviously Miss-Assumed."

    I don't believe the above, but they are just mirrors of your perception stated in post 1248.
    People who use labels such are judging every book by it's cover, just because they come from the same publisher. I like those type of people because you can really tell how full of crap they are. I smile and let them live their lie.

    So next time you want to post "Ford owners are living a lie, Toyota rules" etc etc, put some facts in there that back up your BOLD statement. You didn't answer my question as to why you think we're "living in misery", as my truck of "lower quality" has had a minimum of problems and is still living a long and healthy life. See posts 1224 and 1228, I'd love to see what you have to say to reply.

    People who think any of the above sayings are absolute need to just buy a Calvin sticker with him peeing on "insert make here". It's all the same. Bashing without knowing, or caring to know.

    "...And knowing is half the battle!"

    allknowing--->Do all toyota owners have a "holier than thou" mentality? Or is that a way of dealing with the higher cost you paid?
    Also Toyota offers the extra doors, just not in the US.
    I guess -Humility- isn't a factor of being "higher class"?I'm sorry to hear you actually think that...
This discussion has been closed.

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