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Your opinion is welcomed!
Hint: look at the percentile increase, not at the difference in numbers from year to year (percentile is the true measure).
Toyota Tacoma
136,647 YTD +12.3% YTD
October 2001: 14,719
October 2000: 11,517
Ford Ranger
239,768 YTD -18.7% YTD
October 2001: 22,098
October 2000: 19,103
Chevrolet S-10
140,211 YTD -26.6% YTD
October 2001: 15,307
October 2000: 19,502
did you also notice that it takes both octobers for the tacoma to sell as much as it takes one october for the ranger pretty much.
yep, your tacoma is selling better than it was last year, but is that really good? considering they only sold 11000 of them last october, i wouldn't brag about that number.
to post this is kind of ignorant on your part. yes the ranger is down, but it says this:
the ranger can be down 18% on sales from a year ago, and the tacoma up 12% on sales from a year ago, AND THE RANGER STILL SELLS MORE. like 75% more. whats that say about the tacoma? that even though it is selling better, the ranger is not, and its still kicking it in the butt. ever consider why it may be down? maybe those buyers switched to F150's. why dont you publish the full-size numbers. pretty gutsy, but really doesn't prove anything other than the ranger is down, and it still outsells the tacoma 2 to 1. and the ranger is even ahead of its last year numbers.
The sales growth, percentile wise, with Tacoma is nearly twice as much as with Ranger.
Ok, here we come: They all switched to F150...
Maybe, but then again, if Ranger is so great.....why the heck switch? It's same as saying "Oh wow, Tacoma was god, I'm going to drive Tundra now!" Or did all of a sudden people find themselves hauling tons of timber? Thats a lot of timber.
Ford F-Series 753,280+0.7% YTD October 2001: 102,424 October 2000: 65,225
Chevrolet Silverado 591,224+16.2%YTD October 2001: 88881 October 2000: 47,956
Data from http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/otf0999.html
tbunder, I wish you would be a little....more communicative. I understand that you like your Ranger, but that is not an excuse for acting the way you do. Take a deep breath before you write an answer, smoke a sig, take valium, but cool down, otherwise you'll have ulcers and a coronary.
Common sense... Lots of college students start out with Rangers because it's what they can afford. As they make more money they move to an F150 for more space and power. Lots of people buy Rangers when they have light hauling needs and then when those needs change and they need something bigger they step up. Or maybe someone who used to own a Ranger but gets married and wants to start a family needs a vehicle that can seat 5 but still wants to stay with a truck. It's common sense business for car manufacturers... get customers into base models and then as their needs change and they can afford more truck they take the next step up. It says nothing bad about the smaller truck, it serves the owner's needs until those needs change.
think about it- if a previously winless football team's winning percentage is up 12% in one year, and a previously undefeated one's is down 18% the same year, does that mean that the team who has a 12% rise in winning go to the super bowl when the team that is down in sales 18% went undefeated last year? probably not. percentages do not mean a thing. sure the team that has a rise in winning percentage this year is better, but even though the team that went undefeated last year is down 18% in winning, chances are they're still the better team and has more wins than the team that is up 12% from last year. if a baseball player has a .150 average hitting, does it mean he is not going to hit a home run on the right pitch? not at all.
on your sales growth statement, what do you expect? the ranger has nearly all of the compact market, it is hard for it to gain any sales growth percentage-wise, when toyota has a dinky share, and has an easier time gaining sales percentage with new customers. its such a small chunk of the compact segment that its easier for it to gain sales percentage than the ford since you're working with smaller sales numbers. kind of like Harley and the new Victory bikes. sure, Victory is gaining probably a bigger (NEW) percentile share of the percentage of buyers because Harley already has so many and its hard for its percentage in sales growth to rise when there are more alternative to choose from. think about this, it really is not an attractive statement for you to argue. you have to look at the overall picture. you're just looking and saying, "hey look, tacoma is up soandso sales percentage, and the ranger is down." big deal, look what the numbers are and how they compare monthly and yearly. it takes two of your months to stack up to one month of sales of the ranger. the crappiest month for the ranger is still head and shoulders above the best month of sales for the tacoma. is this too hard for you to understand?
Have fun with this one now!
If Microsofts stock goes up $2, it's not much of an accomplishment, considering how their stock is $64, $1-$2 daily flux is normal for stock that size. When Nortels stock goes up $2, it's considered a good thing, because their stock is $8.
Pure numbers don't have any meaning in the real world, percentages do. Ford put itself into this position, where they have no more place to go to, no more people to sell Rangers to show the great growth numbers. Ford's got a lot of return customers, sure, down here in Texas, near the border, Mexicans love to get their hands on a truck to transport the 5-7 people crew, and when it falls apart, get another one. Ford has basically oversaturated the market, and that is why they can't keep up the insane growth rate they had in the past (DOes this remind anyone of dot-com market bomb? Growth by hundreds of %, then hit the wall). Toyota is simply filling in the void left by unsatisfied customers of American-made trucks and cars, like me, and it's doing a pretty good job at it.
From what I have seen, a "loaded" Ranger would have been very comparable in price. I don't know where these guys get their figures of $4k less either, unless they're comparing differently equipped models. And contrary to popular belief, if you play your cards right and buy at an opportune time, Toyota dealers will cut you some slack.
Besides, whatever difference in initial purchase price is MORE than made up for when we talk about Toyota's better resale value.
If you really want to see something ridiculous, go check out the Chevy ZR-2, an S-10 with an offroad package. The one I saw the other week had a sticker of just over $28K!! For that price, you could EASILY have a loaded Tacoma with supercharger, locker, TRD package, the whole nine yards!
And no, I don't consider Chevy to be a player in this game anyway, given my horrible experience with it.
I'll tell you one screwy thing that happened to me, though. I was interested in buying my truck from Ram Country in Del Rio, TX because that would have been convenient for me; much closer than San Antonio. Ram Country didn't have what I wanted on their lot but located a truck in Austin. It was called a "program" vehicle or some other similar term because their manager had been driving it (he put 5K miles on it). I thought, what the heck, maybe they'll give me a big discount now that it's "used," right? WRONG. They said they don't consider such a vehicle "used" because it never had a title! End result: they were willing to take off a whopping $500 for the 5000 miles on the truck! Needless to say, they didn't get my business.
I specifically stated that I wanted only SR5 color, V6 4x4 Xtracab with manual, TRD adn power, thats it. So they found me what I wanted in 3 days (told me it'd be 2-3 weeks), the only extra option on it is the sliding window. So I'm very satisfied, they gave me the truck a week before signing the papers for it, because I sold my tradein privately.
-whoa!!! talk about being defensive! calm down pal! we can almost hear the fear in your typing...
Pluto--->"From that rational," since the F-150 surpassed the VW Beetle in lifelong sales, it must be the best vehicle.
Pluto and Scorp--->For a comparative test, you must also add the bulk of standard equipment that Ford offers with Rangers.
*Power Equipment Toyota 620, Ranger 405
Ranger also includes Keyless Entry with the 405.
*Remote Entry Toyota(Alarm) 439(?) Ranger see above.
*Rear sliding Window Tacoma 160 Ranger 125
*Tow Hitch Tacoma 339 Ranger 215
*Tilt Steering & Cruise Control Tacoma 495 Ranger 325
*ABS Tacoma 590 Ranger 0 (Std)
*Clock Tacoma 80 Ranger 0 (Std)
*CD Player Tacoma 275 or 330(?) Ranger 150 (295 For 6 disc changer)
*Tachometer Tacoma 95 Ranger 0 (Std)
I went to Toyota.com.
2002 Xtra Cab 4x4 V6 4 Speed. Got the TRD Offroad package, and Convenience Package for the power stuff. Including securikey, A/C, Tilt Wheel, Tach and Digital Clock, Floor mats and bucket seats, and sliding rear window. MSRP 26,511.
I went to Forddirect.com
2002 Ranger, 4x4 -4 DOOR-, V6 with 5 speed automatic. And all the other items listed on the above Tacoma. MSRP: 24,520
Four doors is listed as a 650 dollar option, but it is a necessity on 4x4's with off-road packages. (But let's ignore it for now)
That's 1000 difference on 4X4's as close as I could come with Scorpio's rig and keeping the equipment comparable. That's without hunting for speed control, 4 doors, and ABS and a larger v6, on the Tacoma, which IS on the Ranger. Ranger lists Skid plates and fog lights included, and I presume it is also included on the Tacoma(Could be wrong though). Going to the 4 door Tacoma, the double cab jumped the MSRP to 27,056. It was then very easy to 'option up' the MSRP to over 29,000 (I believe 32,000 could of been obtained as well).
But this is MSRP, not invoice, which hopefully everyone is trying to get as close as possible in paying.
With no down payment and 10% interest, The original Ranger and Tacoma Payments with 5 year note would be: Tacoma $563 Ranger $521
42 * 60 = 2520. Financed savings 2520. Even with a $5,000 down payment, the payment's would still vary by about 40 bucks.
Now pluto's gonna argue resale value. That factor is almost completely up to how well the truck is maintained by the owner.
Keep in mind that the above is one example, and only one trying to fit into Scorpio's scenario.
Maybe next time I'll draw up the regular cab V6 comparison. Oh, that's right, there isn't a Tacoma to compare there...
Darn right I'm going to argue resale value. Used Toyota trucks in good shape sell like hot-cakes, and for a good price. The others, not so, at least not in my experience.
Maybe initially, you get more "bang for your buck" with the Ranger, but expand the entire ownership experience anything beyond 3 or 4 years, the Tacoma wins hand down.
both have upgraded suspension (springs and shocks), skidplates, 16"wheels (your old one has 15's), ford's skidplates are more solid than toyota's (with the transfer case skidplate on the ford being bolted frame to frame and the toyota t-case skidplate being mounted right on the t-case itself), ford gives you more gvwr and towing ability, the ranger when ordered with the off-road group includes abs standard along with other options not even offered with toyota (step bars, 6disc cd changer, rear slider for no charge, 4-dr cab, remote keyless entry, factory theft system, fog lights, etc. there are just so much more options you get with ford for the standard price when ordered with the off-road package and 4.0 engine which is what we're talking about since you always want to talk apples to apples, that when added in on a tacoma pushes the retail way high. you get a locker, we can have a lsd. the only thing your trd has that ford doesn't give you is a full spare. do your homework before you make a bogus statement like that. the new FX4 is even more easily suited for off-road duty than any trd. and only thing it has over my off-road is the alcoa baja wheels and bilstein shocks. manual FX4's also get a true manual transfer case. and both also have nearly 20 more horsepower and more torque than your TRD's puny 190 horses.
also, come to iowa. more used rangers sell here than used toyotas. i know of one tacoma 4x4 that has been sitting for sale around here for at least 5 months. same spot, no sale. whereas the ford dealer out here sells at least 15 used rangers a month (small rural dealer too). all 4x4's. people actually use their 4x4's here in iowa. and know what truck to buy to bust through the snow drifts and climb the pasture and timber hills.
my truck stickered for $23900. and it has EVERY option offered in a ranger. this includes a 4-door cab, remote keyless entry, sliding window, factory step bars, fog lights, 6disc cd changer, along with power windows, locks, mirrors. it also has abs, a 5-spd automatic transmission, a better safety rating, factory window tint that's not at an added price, a foot operated parking brake, a better tow rating and payload rating. if you equip a tacoma xcab with all that you can of this list (cuz some of these just aren't available to you like the in-dash cd changer and better safety rating haha) please spit out the msrp to me. my truck had a $2000 rebate straight from ford (and don't give me this bullcrap about it not selling and they have to rebate the truck, cuz your precious toyota is offering 0% interest on their slowest selling tin cans), plus i paid only $200 over invoice. which put my truck around $20000. your tacoma with all of my options can't touch that price. the 4-door cab is the biggie. you guys are still wondering what exactly that is.
to top it off, the new FX4 offers a factory MP3 player right in the dash. how cool is that? dream on boys.
one more thing, your comment about the ZR2 stickering for $28000 is untrue. the most expensive ZR2 is barely $26000. my friend bought an '01 Highrider, which are a little higher than an S10 (about $300), and it barely hit $26000. if you saw a ZR2 for the price you say, it must have had dealer installed options on it which pushed the price up to that point. go build one on their site if you don't believe me. but guess what, even that crappy gm product as you say at least offers a 3rd door. i guess you guys could buy a blow torch. i dont think the tin would be THAT hard to cut through. or better yet, maybe in a few years it will rust through like your beds. hehe
So basically, my truck was 23.5K MSRP, add the security system for $500 and a towing for $500, you come up with the same number as a Ranger.
At the point of sale, the difference is either none, or $1000 as with your numbers (tbunder: whose fault is it that you can not get a Ranger with manual tranny? Not Toyotas, we get both transmissions on Xtracab), so that sounds a lot more reasonable than tbunder with his early statements about overpaying 3-4K for a truck. Financing is how you go about it, and 10% is too much. And yes, there is resale value. In the early posts folks were saying how ranger trades in 2-4K less than Tacoma, and were writing it off onto the initial difference in price. Overall, the point was....the Ranger's margin of victory price-wise is so much less than the Ranger fans have praised it to be, it's really not worth noting.
tbunder: if your Ranger does not offer manual transmission, then you compare with the automatic, because that is the default option on your truck.
Don't call me a liar. The MSRP on the maroney that I saw for that ZR-2 was $28,000. Maybe your information does not include all the extras that are on EVERY maroney, such as delivery charges, cleaning and prep, etc. Go look at them for yourself if you don't believe me.
Go read Natureboy's safety links in the Toyota vs. Big 3 thread. The Tacoma was rated as the SAFEST compact truck, and the Tundra the SAFEST full-size truck (the F-150, despite being the best-seller, had the WORST ratings, LOL). Maybe its cabin held together better because it DOESN'T have that third and fourth door you love so much? Everything's a tradeoff.
A Pontiac Aztec may have more options than a Toyota 4Runner at a lower price, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy one. Same argument for the Ranger.
Overall, for the long term, I think the Tacoma's a better value. If you're into leasing and trading in vehicles every couple of years, probably the Ranger is a better value.
It just depends on your needs and priorities.
Ford must be run by a bunch of total idiots... what kind of poor businessman allows his company to sell more vehicles than its competitors by a longshot? Instead ford should cut production so that economy of scale is lost and all options become more expensive and then sell less trucks than everybody else. Yeah that's the ticlet.
Marketing, and stupidity also play a role in this car game. I bet that more people would be willing to buy a Ford product if the reliability record and resale values were higher than they are now, even at the expense of $1000-$2000 more.
Lets make a quick analogy here: Warmart, practically a leader in the supermarket field, prices are about as low as they go, there's a walmart in every big town, but that doesnt mean that they sell good quality things.
-this coming from the guy who likes the frontier. (weak engine)
S-10 (ZR2 v6) with no options = MSRP $26,355
By the by, The f-150 may not have the best safety ratings, but not too many people drive their trucks into a 5 ton slab of concrete at 45 mph!
Interest rate might of been a bit high. At 5.99%, Tacoma $512.41 Ranger $473.93 Difference 38.48
5 Year savings@5.99% = $2308.80.
5 Year Savings@10% = $2520
Better jump on the 0.00% while you can!
Also I miss-typed the original MSRP price difference. It's about 2000, not 1000.
Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if I spent my savings on car maintenance? Oh wait, that's why I'm at 138,000 miles and still running strong.
Built Ford Tough is the slogan and I guess only understood to those who have had the luxury of abusing a Ford. Quality was Job 1 until the recent cost cutting measures have been put in place. Jump on this as you will, but Ford isn't going anywhere. In under two years I'll bet money most of you will change your tune. Let the hard knocks come, and Ford will only come out stronger. I can wait a year or so before I purchase again, no hurry, just want to get the car payments underway before the not so distant mortgage payment.
Still number one compact and fullsize, SUV and Truck manufacturer in the United States of America.
http://www.nhdo tsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/NCAP/Cars/2001Pkup.html
scorpio- your msrp was 23.5? with a manual? i got an auto, plus a 4door cab, abs, 6 disc in dash cd changer, rear slider, security system, factory nerf bars, a better safety rating (see above link), and a sales reputation of being the best compact for the last 19 years. oh yeah, my msrp was 23900. you can't get a cd changer, 4 door cab, and abs, rear slider, security system, nerf bars are all additional to you. add all those up and tell me the difference. oh yeah, the better safety rating i have is not available to you at all unless you pay with your life. one more thing, a manual is standard in a ranger. but remember that the price of the auto is included in my msrp of 23900.
saddaddy- no options on ZR2 and FX4. you know why? cuz everythings included when you upgrade to those packages. they dont make you pay extra for them like toyota. go through and get specific options included in the FX4 and ZR2, and then add them to the price of a tacoma, and then tell me your price. i said id comparison shop with my ranger and a toyota built off their site if you guys wanted me too. no one's taken me up on it yet. i have my mrsp sticker right here. its got every option for '01, and it was 23900. everything is on it. you can't touch that with what i got.
hold on, ill go build one just like mine since you guys are all too chicken to say the word. hold
Be sure to print out this summary and present it when you meet with the dealer. But remember, the vehicle price in this summary is only approximate - the actual price will be set by the dealer.
Model: MSRP
4x4 Xtracab 3.4L V6 4 Speed Automatic $20,420.00
Delivery Handling and Processing Fee: $510.00
Options: $3,855.00
Bucket Seats:Cloth Faced Seats, SR5 Package, Trd Offroad Package, Power Windows, Locks,, Tachometer, Tilt Wheel w/Int. Wipers, Slidng Rear Window w/Prvcy Glass, Air Conditioner, Cruise Control, Rear Differential Lock, 50 State Emissions
Accessories: $1,193.00
Ss Tube Steps By Steel Horse $419.00
V.I.P. RS3200 Dlx Security Sys $499.00
Total: $25,978
okay. here's your proof. this is right from build you own at toyota.com.
my trucks msrp was $23975. here's a pretty much comparable equipped tacoma and it is over $2000 more. and you must note that you can't even get the quad cab, and your price on the tacoma doesn't include the options of deep dark tinted glass, remote keyless entry (not even available to you so you'd have to have it installed aftermarket) or abs brakes. im not going to look at the prices of these additional options you'd need to have your tacoma equipped like my ranger, but im sure it is around another $1000. so there's the 3 grand ive been talking about. its right here, and its all straight hard facts. build your own if you don't believe me.
http://www.nhdo tsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/NCAP/Cars/2001Pkup.html
scorpio- your msrp was 23.5? with a manual? i got an auto, plus a 4door cab, abs, 6 disc in dash cd changer, rear slider, security system, factory nerf bars, a better safety rating (see above link), and a sales reputation of being the best compact for the last 19 years. oh yeah, my msrp was 23900. you can't get a cd changer, 4 door cab, and abs, rear slider, security system, nerf bars are all additional to you. add all those up and tell me the difference. oh yeah, the better safety rating i have is not available to you at all unless you pay with your life. one more thing, a manual is standard in a ranger. but remember that the price of the auto is included in my msrp of 23900.
saddaddy- no options on ZR2 and FX4. you know why? cuz everythings included when you upgrade to those packages. they dont make you pay extra for them like toyota. go through and get specific options included in the FX4 and ZR2, and then add them to the price of a tacoma, and then tell me your price. i said id comparison shop with my ranger and a toyota built off their site if you guys wanted me too. no one's taken me up on it yet. i have my mrsp sticker right here. its got every option for '01, and it was 23900. everything is on it. you can't touch that with what i got.
hold on, ill go build one just like mine since you guys are all too chicken to say the word. hold
So I really really don't know why edmunds even has these discussions about one vs. another, they all grow into flamewars very fast.
also, yeah my truck is cheaper than even a non-comparably equipped tacoma- in price. i get tons more options and standard stuff for a price that's at most 3 grand less when all things are figured in on the tacoma to make it even on options as compared to the ranger. its even got a better safety rating, and the bed won't rust after five years of ownership. and i wont even mention the heavier duty components outfitted on the ranger as compared to the weak stuff your tacoma comes with. ie. more rigid frame, beefier springs for a higher GVWR, more towing power, bigger engine with more power, 5-speed auto. tranny with o/d bypass when towing. the list goes on and on.
Forget what these guys say about the Tacoma. The Tacoma has been proven year after year to be by far the most capable 4x4 out there. These guys are just justifying what they bought, that's all.
-cant tow as much as a ranger
-has nearly 20 less horsepower and torque
-is not as safe as the ranger (see nhtsa site)
-has a smaller GVWR
-offers a digital clock as an $85 option
-has a smaller rear differential and no limited slip option
-makes getting 16" wheels and tires options, where they're standard on ranger 4x4
-has a record of rusting out early
-has weak skidplates
-has nowhere near the option capabilities as a ranger for the money
-is not american made (my ranger was built in Minnesota, stamped right on the door) somewhere on your tacoma it says made in japan
-makes abs optional (ranger 4x4's get them standard)
-has a 1 star side impact rating with the insurance institute
-is a real nice looking truck which is quite capable off-road, even offering a rear locker (for those who care), but not anymore capable than a ranger with equivalent tires, fords downfall
-is $3thousand more when equipped equivalently to a loaded ranger, including nerf bars, security system, rear slider, keyless entry, cd changer, and even more $ for the supercharger to surpass the rangers power output.
-justification? pluto, that's what you do every day when you push in your squeaky clutch, when for three thousand less dollars, you could've got more power and options, including a 5-spd automatic and get this, a free clock. aah, but that locker must be worth it all, after all, you are ivan jr. right? ROFLMAO
As far as your statements about Tacoma:
1. 16" wheels: Those wheels come with 4x4 only, either as a part of a package, or you have a choice of 3 different types of wheels without the TRD package.
2. The sticker on my truck says "50% in Japan, 50% in USA". Perhaps you like totally-domestic built vehicles, I don't. It's a matter of preference.
3. 2001 is definitely not 1-star.
4. I don't care for ABS, I've driven cars and trucks without one all my life. I asked for it, seeing how the insurance companies give discount for it, but you know what? I got a discount on insurance anyway, even though I didnt get the ABS.
5. I don't care for having an extra cup holder, 6-CD changer, leather, nerf bars, etc. Read the posts in Big3 forum......it's all yuppie stuff, you are so big about "Oh, my ranger can tow more than you", so you make it sound like you are going to use it for a lot of towing and work, yet you then go on talking about options like a 16yo who just got his first car from his daddy and loves to brag about it.
Oh, and one thing about your nerf bars: they are for looks. Sure, you can step on them, but since you have a 4x4, it'd be obvious that you go offroad in it. That being the case, don't try to use them as sliders.....it wont work. Gotta buy real rock sliders.
My justification: at least I'm not driving a truck that I see mexicans riding in all day long.
Again, that is a matter of personal preference, I can afford Tacoma, I like it (you said it yourself.......the engines didnt get bigger, we all got spoiled, when we were talking about your Nissan, and you keep pushing the 20hp difference.), I like the amount of power, most of all, I feel good driving a Tacoma. Ford's interior scared me, when I got a ride in one. So there, it's a matter of personal taste, backed up by research of technical details.
"In every performance category, the Tacoma won..."
Four Wheeler Magazine put the Tacoma up against a Jeep, Land Rover, and Hummer. Guess what? "The stocker with the locker won."
Sorry, but your Ranger with the digital clock, 16" wheels and LSD (whoopee!!) gets whooped by the Tacoma time and time again. What part of this don't you understand?
Oh, and you forgot the most important option available on Tacoma and not Ranger: Toyota quality and reliability.
scorpio- about your 4x4 tacoma's wheels? just cuz you upgrade to 4x4, doesn't mean you get 16" wheels (check out the '01 brochure, there's a 4x4 with the puny 15's an 225 series tires in it). they're an option, and the cheapest steel wheels cost you around $300. 16" aluminum wheels are standard on ranger. but toyota makes you pay for cheap steel wheels that will rust in a few year? what's up with that one? ill admit i like the tacoma, but its just overpriced when comparing to the ranger and its standard features.
While it may seem like a rip off (it is, in some way), it also allows for greater flexibility.
Example: I didnt want an AC. It sounds crazy, especially for TX, but I didnt want it. I drove around in the old S10 without AC, because it was busted, through the summer, and it was fine. But I got the AC anyway, because the resale value of the truck goes up, and it can come in handy in the rain.
So Ford tells you guys "Oh, we think you need this, this and this on your truck, and you can't have it any other way", and we tell Toyota "I want this, this and this on my truck".
So the cheap steel wheels will rust in few years? Is that a fact, or an opinion? You know what to do here.
It is also reasonably easy to assume that people who buy 4x4s (who are willing to pay extra 1K for them) are going to take the trucks offroad, and modify them. The Toyota reps/dealers monitor places like tacomaterritory to get a feel for how things are going. And if you think $300 is expensive for a set of wheels and tires, it's obvious you havent shopped around for AT or MT tires and wheels. The 15x8 rims of good kind cost around $400, and 32s BFGs cost $120/tire. A good set of wheel/tires costs around 1K, 32s or 33s.
So the pricing is somewhat reasonable, and there are always people willing to buy stock rims and tires. If you don't believe me, check the ttora site.
however, I'm not sure how in good faith you can make ridiculous claims like the tacoma has weak skid plates. do you have any data that shows they're weak?
you're also making a big deal out of 15" vs 16" wheels. generally, it you do a lot of wheeling you want 15" as there is more rubber there than in a 16" wheel. (assuming equal tire diameters)
Also, I just looked at the NHTSA site for 2001 tacomas and it has a 3 star side impact rating.
Then you get upset at Pluto for making "blanket statements" about vehicle reliability and quality. Let me remind you in case you forgot, there has been 19 recalls on the ranger in the last 5 years. only 2 for the tacoma.
Does it bother you that some people prefer the tacoma?
You brag about how you post facts. You do, along with a alot of incorrect statements and opinions.
Why does toy bolt the skid plate directly to the transfer case as opposed to the frame rail. Maybe "weaker" is not the correct word but I can't imagine how a plate bolted DIRECTLY to the object it's supposed to protect can offer more protection than the the frame mounted plate.
Funny but sad story; Wife's '02 Lexus makes a LOUD clunk a few seconds after it's started. This clunk is both with the AC on or off. Funny how on the Lexus forum there is no mention of this idiosyncrasy(sp?) even though the dealer says this is "normal". The point of this is if this was a Ford or Chevy all hell would break loose about how junky they are. Toy people can never admit their vehicle's faults.
PS; That "special" toy feature that you have to crank the motor a few times before it starts is also present on the Lexus. After driving Fords where a "click" of the key starts 'em, this waiting is quite annoying.
followed by:
"Is that a fact, or an opinion?"
"t is also reasonably easy to assume that people who buy 4x4s (who are willing to pay extra 1K for them) are going to take the trucks offroad, and modify them. "
Then you talk about spending $880 for Rims and Tires.
So now we're not comparing "stock" showroom floor vehicles? Heck, a rear locker can be installed for less than those rims and tires! LOL
Pluto--->Are you gonna let Scorp's comment "least I'm not driving a truck that I see mexicans riding in all day long." slide?
I swear Spoog forwarded you all his links to magazine articles. Big whoop, I guess since my truck isn't rating number one off-road I better never venture off the asphalt.
About Ford and standard options: how do you interpret Ford's policy of installing a lot of stuff on a vehicle before you buy it? Great customer service? Trying not to confuse buyers with more options?