Porsche Cayman Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi mightykc01. Porsche Credit's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2007 Porsche Cayman S without Tiptronic with 15,000 miles per year are .00310 and 57%, respectively. 15,000 miles per year is the highest mileage allowance that Porsche Credit publishes residual values for. I believe that if you need to drive more than this you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until lease-end and have to pay an excess mileage penalty. Some independent banks have better money factors than Porsche Credit, but their residual values tend to be worse.

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lbh2315

2007 Porsche Cayman, turned in by owner with 5K miles on it
Red with tan leather

Tiptronic S
Preferred Package
MSRP = 56K

Price = $46,500
39 month lease
56% residual
12K/year
mf = .00340
$2,300 negative equity from my Saab trade-in
$3,700 total out of pocket at delivery
payments of $799/mo

I cannot figure out if this is a good deal or not. Sounds good considering the negative equity and the discount on the car, approx. $2k of out of pocket goes to fees (just tags on a Porsche are $850 in AZ!). Not often I can get into a Cayman with tip for $46,500 - but I am just concerned b/c it is fairly stripped down, no Bose, no xenons, no navi, no sunroof. But I would be willing to overlook these things if you told me this was a great deal. Any help Carman???? I probably need to act quick as I already put a deposit on a 2008 Audi TT roadtser leased at $680/mo. Thanks in advance for your help - or anybody else of course! Now if only someone could help me decide between the Cayman and the new TT roadster!!

redsoxgirl

"Now if only someone could help me decide between the Cayman and the new TT roadster!!"

Forgive me in advance, but I'm feeling rather opinionated this morning and not inclined to mix my words or try to be politically correct. So take the following as you wish:

- Do you know what the heck you are buying? The "Preferred Package" on the Cayman does include Xenons and Bose.

- $680 to $800 per month for what? In the case of the TT a grossly overweight pretender of a sports car and in the case of the base Cayman, a competent sports car, but handicapped with that god-awful tiptronic. Obviously, you don't really care about performance...but, you are spending a small fortune for exactly what? Looks? For someone who is upside down to the tune of $2,300 on a Saab it seems like you like to waste your money.

I get kick out of some who comment that I must be rolling in the dough to be driving a 2007 911S coupe. I do well, but a long way short of "rolling" as I define it. I negotiated a great discount to MSRP, paid cash and, based upon my calculations, it will cost me less than $800 per month over 3+ years. $8,000 to $10,000 per year to lease a TT or base Cayman with tiptronic? :confuse:

lbh2315

First, let me say Go Sox. Second, allow me to reply to your somewhat angry posting.

1. The preferred package on the Cayman does NOT include Bose or xenons, that is the preferred package PLUS.

2. I assume you know plenty about cars. The new TT certainly is not overweight and the reviews have been absolutely stellar in saying that the TT can finally be called a sports car. That being said, no - performance is not number one in my book. Both the Cayman and the TT will out-perform 95% of the cars on the road, and that is good enough for me since 95% of my driving is done in harsh urban conditions. I don't need 0-60 in 4 seconds. So yes, I care about looks, build quality, good performance, value, service, technology and the fun factor. Either of these cars will be fun on a daily basis.

3. Wasting my money? Simple concept. Bought the Saab. Bad decision to ever buy a Saab because of depreciation. I can admit that. And at this point in time, I was interested in getting a new car and seeing if the inequity was going to kill me on a trade. If so, I wait a few months and get even and I have no worries. I think my reason for getting a Saab in the first place was because I didn't want to waste money living in the city on a car I didn't use much - now I am in the burbs and drive all the time.

4. As to your final comment, we simply choose to spend our money in different ways. I don't like to buy depreciating assets - that is why I normally lease and that is why I should have never bought the Saab. If I would have saved $80-$90K, I certainly would not have thrown it into buying a Porsche outright. When I have nice chunks of dough like that I invest with long term growth in mind. I am sure you have your investment strategies and I am sure they work for you. We just do things differently.

And finally, yes - tiptronic. Again, I do a lot of driving in traffic and don't want to drive a stick. Simple as that. So, I guess thanks for your comments - considering that the majority of those who lease either of these cars are well into 700/800/900/mo payments, I wanted to see how the price and total lease package on the Porsche was. Obviously, you don't like the car, me or the deal. So I guess I have at least one opinion the matter.

habitat1

Ouch, did the Red Sox make another bad trade? That was a pretty brutal assessment by redsoxgirl - someone who is normally pretty pleasant in these forums.

However, if you want an equally biased, but perhaps gentler assessment, I'd say negotiate your best cash deal on the Cayman, margin borrow against your long term investment account (assuming you can match the 6% Fidelity just quoted me) and buy, rather than lease it. I'm not going to claim expertise in the lease vs. buy analysis, but $800 per month on a $46,500 car seems way too high. Just stopped in the BMW dealership next to my Porsche dealership and the lease on a brand new loaded 335i coupe, with an MSRP of around $45,000 was UNDER $500 per month.

Second, even though you may not care about ultimate performance, I'd have to disagree about the TT's weight. It is a cow. Nearly 3,500 lbs for the "roadster" is nearly 700 lbs more than my former S2000, 550+ lbs more than a loaded Boxster S that I considered in 2005 and 200 lbs more than the loaded 911 Carrera S Cabriolet that I bought. I even consider my 911 slightly heavy, but my daughters fit in the back and it's still capable of a low 4 second 0-60 sprint, so it's hard to complain. The TT - as with all Audi's - is just too damn heavy, without acceptable justification, IMO.

And yes, I paid cash too. Previously paid off my mortgage and had the margin borrowing capacity, so I didn't feel guilty about losing the interest on my money at an after tax rate of about 3%. But, based upon your numbers, if I had a payment of about $1,500 coming due every month, I'd feel sick to my stomach. I am quite certain that after 18 months and 12,500 miles, I could sell my car for about $10,000-12,000 less than I paid for it, taxes included.

Get whatever you want, but I think the Cayman is a true sports car and the TT isn't. Still.

changw1

It is very difficult to compare deals between different vehicles. But relative to other cayman deal, the residual appears to be in line with the PCNA rate. Money factor is a little high. I think tier-one credit should have a money factor of 0.0031. In terms of purchase price, most people can get a brand new in-stock cayman for 10% off MSRP. Getting only additional 10% off a used car does not seem like a bargain to me.

On the other hand, a tiptronic Cayman is pretty rare so if that is a must have option, you have limited choice.

vwguild1

Banking "Rule of Thumb" #1 $20-$25 for every $1000 borrowed...

Porsche Financial Services subvents no rates v. BMW that carries of great deal of rate on their backs...4.9% on 2004s, for example.

carnieve

I've never leased a car before and have been thinking about the Caymen Coupe (not S). Want manual transmission and maybe the preferred package. Dealer says there is a Porsche lease program right now of $5K down and $599/mo for 48 months. I know nothing about leasing. Is it better to buy under these circumstances? What would be the chance of getting them down from MSRP? Dealer has 20 Caymens on the lot right now. I'm leasing nieve.......please help!

Thanks,
Car Nieve

lbh2315

Horrible idea. With a lease you want to put as little down as possible. I was considering a Cayman lease, but ended up with a 2008 Audi TT roadster and only paying fees upfront, no cap cost reduction. $5K down is crazy. It will effectively add $104/mo to your payment, meaning that you are quickly up to $700/mo. in real dollars. Moreover, the 599 car is as base as base gets. You will want some options as base Porsches have NOTHING on them, plus you will need to pay taxes and finally, you should not lease for more than 36 months (maybe 39). After 36 months, the residuals crash and that affects your monthly payment. Finally, you should be able to get at least $4-7K off an in-stock Cayman. If they say no, there are plenty of other dealers that will discount. Also, Porsche Credit North America offers the worst money factors in the business when comapred to the big three German competition. You might want to see what money factors Audi, BMW and MB offer and compare against Porsche. I learned that leasing a Porsche is simply not a good idea absent a fantastic deal.

habitat1

I agree with ibh2315 that Porsche is not very lease friendly. When you compare the lease terms on a $55k Porsche to a similarly priced BMW, it's like night and day, with the BMW payments often 20-30%+ less.

That 48 month lease will cost you a total of approximately $34,000. Not sure what the exact MSRP is of the Cayman you are considering, but if it's in stock and the dealer has 20 Caymans on the lot, you should be able to get at least 8-10% off, maybe slightly more. Assuming the MSRP is around $53k for a base Cayman with just the preferred package and metallic paint, you should be able to buy that car for around $48k

Hopefully, I don't need to point out that buying the car for $48k is a heck of a lot better than renting it for 4 years for $34k. Unless you are just strapped for cash, I'd buy it outright. And if you are strapped for cash or on a tighter budget, I'd wait (or buy a nice Honda S2000 like I did in 2001, before I bought our 911S Cab in 2005).

In any event, don't buy or lease any Cayman without at least trying out the $920 sport chrono option. Have it in my 911S and the sport setting increases throttle response and makes the car feel much quicker. Not sure how much it will transform a base Cayman, but you should look into it.

Good luck.

carnieve

Thanks for your help - I'm off to the Porsche dealer armed with good info! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi lbh2315. Let's take a look at the deal that you were quoted. The first thing that I notice about it is that the money factor you were quoted is a little high. Porsche Credit's current buy rate for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier is only .00310. If your credit is in good shape, the dealer that you are working with is trying to mark your car's factor up to add additional hidden profit to your deal. Try to get them to use the .00310 factor.

The selling price that you were quoted looks outstanding. Even with the marked up money factor, this is a good deal. As I said earlier, try to get the dealer to lower the money factor, but other than that I don't see any reason not to go for it.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Greetings Car Nieve. Since you admittedly do not know much about leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

Porsche usually does not provide lease support on its vehicles and the advertised Cayman lease that you mentioned is no exception. If you choose to lease a 2007 Cayman through Porsche Credit right now, you will have to use its standard lease money factor of .00310. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 7.44%, which isn't great.

Both leasing and financing or paying cash for this car have merits. Neither one jumps out at me as the better deal right now. Whichever one you choose, make sure to negotiate the selling price of the Cayman that you want. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash or financing. Porsche dealers seem to be providing substantial discounts on the Cayman right now. If you decide to lease, negotiate the lowest possible selling price and then have the dealer that you are working with use the aforementioned money factor to calculated your monthly payment.

You also should not make such a large down payment when leasing. I always advise consumers to put as little money down as possible when leasing. Lessees who make large down payments risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered.

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elmfd3s

Car_man,

I was wondering if you know the current buy rate from Porsche Finanical for a New 2006 Cayman S leftover. I could not find any residuals or money factors for a new 06.

Thanks.

vwguild1

No longer available from any lender...only 2007

b6s4

"Second, even though you may not care about ultimate performance, I'd have to disagree about the TT's weight. It is a cow. Nearly 3,500 lbs for the "roadster" is nearly 700 lbs more than my former S2000, 550+ lbs more than a loaded Boxster S that I considered in 2005 and 200 lbs more than the loaded 911 Carrera S Cabriolet that I bought. I even consider my 911 slightly heavy, but my daughters fit in the back and it's still capable of a low 4 second 0-60 sprint, so it's hard to complain. The TT - as with all Audi's - is just too damn heavy, without acceptable justification, IMO."

You must be confusing the new TT with the old. The new TT has an aluminum space frame and is some 300 lbs. lighter than the previous car. Car and Driver weighed the TT at 2960 lbs., which is lighter than the Boxster, Cayman, and 911.

b6s4

"What I can tell you is that $3,000 and $7,000 are way too much money to put down when leasing. I always advise consumers not to make large down payments on leased vehicles. Those who do risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered."

This is not exactly true. The down payment goes to reducing the payoff amount on the lease, so you do not really lose the down payment. The payoff amount is the cost to purchase the car from the lease, and is the same amount for the insurance company to purchase the car from the leasing company, as in the case of an accident or if the car is stolen. The difference in the payoff amount and the street value of the car is refunded to you (or owed to the insurance company). I know this well because I have been through it.

elmfd3s

So, how does a dealer lease a brand new 2006 Cayman S on their lot?

kyfdx

Technically, you could still lease any car. You can even find an independent bank on your own.

But, if the Porsche dealer doesn't have a bank that wants to do it, then you can guess that the payment will be outrageous.

Leasecompare.com is a broker for independent bank leases. You can check out their website for quotes.

regards,
kyfdx

CarMan@Edmunds

Thanks for sharing your experience, [b6s4. The problem with making a large down payment when leasing is that vehicles are often worth significantly less on the open market than what consumers owe to the bank that they are leasing through. If this happens, gap insurance covers the difference, but it does not refund any down payment that was made. Down payments have absolutely no impact upon vehicles' residual values or their lease-end purchase prices. While there is no guarantee that one will lose the down payment that they made on their lease if their vehicle is in an accident, it frequently does happen and in my opinion is not worth the risk.

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habitat1

"You must be confusing the new TT with the old. The new TT has an aluminum space frame and is some 300 lbs. lighter than the previous car. Car and Driver weighed the TT at 2960 lbs., which is lighter than the Boxster, Cayman, and 911."

You need to get ALL of your facts straight. The TT coupe (not roadster), 4-cylinder (not V6), front wheel drive (not quatro) weighs in at 2,965 lbs. Which IS still heavier than the Boxster (a roadster), Cayman and S2000.

The V6 Quatro version of the TT coupe weighs in at 3,218 lbs, which is 100-150 lbs more than a 911 coupe. The roadster version of that model TT is up at least another 100 lbs.

If you want to contend that the anemic 4 cylinder, FWD TT coupe is not a pig becuase it slides in at just under 3,000 lbs, that's up to you. But pig or not, that car is absolutely NOT A SPORTS CAR, unless you also define the New Beetle as one. By the time you give the TT, coupe or roadster, the proper engine and Audi's stubborn, heavy quatro only alternative to FWD (where's RWD?) you are back to comparing it to farm animals relative to weight.

I believe in calling a pig a pig. You may want to consider the piglet version less offensive, but it's more competitive with econoboxes in performance than any of the other cars we are discussing here.

chander

Hi Habitat,
Trying to decide between a Caymans S, one with a color I like but has no chrono vs another color which is my second choice but with chrono which is better?, Is it true the sweet engine sound is a little different with the chrono? This is once in life time purchase for me and want to make the right choice.

habitat1

That's a decision only you can make. Drive both.

Or if for some reason, you can't drive the one without the sport chrono, drive one with the sport chrono and decide if the difference between activating the "sport" button is worth taking your second choice in color.

I can't tell if there is a difference in engine sound with just the sport chrono because I also have the sport exhaust which is also activated by pressing the sport button. There is a big difference with the sport exhaust, but I don't think much, if any without. The "sport" feature on the sport chrono increases the throttle and braking response. It is quite noticable in my 911S. It may not add to the objective performance figures, but subjectively the car feels quicker.

Do either/both have PASM as well? That's standard on the "S" version of the 911, but I believe an option on the Cayman S.

chander

Yes, Both with pasm,arctic without chrono and meteor grey with.Thanx for ur advise

habitat1

Like I said, you should really drive both to see if the sport chrono is worth it to you. But it is interesting that both have the $2k PASM option, but only one has the $920 sport chrono. I use the "sport" setting on my PASM less than 10-20% of the time - usually only on smooth higways or smooth twisty roads. But I use the (separate) "sport" setting on the sport chrono about 50% of the time.

digiedit

I'm looking at either leasing a standard Cayman (preferred package, heated seats, no bose) or buying a 2006 used Cayman S.
The dealership has told me that the MSRP on the base is $53,760 and they'll sell it for $47,400. With 2500 down the payments for 12k miles/48 months will be $690/month. Is this a good deal? Seems high to me.
The used Cayman S has 12500 miles on it, PASM, PCM, Bose, 19" wheels, Sport Chrono plus etc. They are listing it at $54,900. This seems to be a great price.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

habitat1

What was the in service date and MSRP on the 2006 Cayman S. You should be able to pick up a brand new one at close to 10% off. Unless you are getting at least 25% off the equivalent MSRP on a used one (i.e. 15% discount to what you could buy a new one for), the price is too high. And if that 2006 was an early arrival that is now 20+ months old, I'd want the price to include an extended warranty.

Porsche lease rates are expensive, compared to say, BMW. If you would buy the Cayman S, why wouldn't you do the same with the base Cayman?

digiedit

Not sure about the MSRP or date in service. I appreciate your insight. I agree that the lease rates are very high, especially when compared to BMW. What are your thoughts about Porsche Options financing? I prefer lease payments, but enjoy the feeling of actually owning the car.

habitat1

Actually, don't know much about Porsche financing options either. I paid cash, but could have (and still can) borrow at a margin interest rate of 6% or a home equity rate in the 7% range (which is tax deductable). The effective after tax rates of those options (3.5-5%) is better than any "conventional" car loan, I think.

Paying cash is something I've been doing since my first new car in 1978. Not necessarily the most financially prudent way to pay for a car, but it's kept me from ever buying more than I could afford and there is no monthly pain.

al_93

I'm considering the same thing--there's a leftover (new) '06 Cayman S at my local dealership. I'm trying to infer the money factor and residual from the '07 values that I've found in your posts. Is this a good assumption? What are the values for the '06 on a 24 month lease?

Thanks.