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Honda/Acura Odometer Class Action Suit
My wife and I heard a brief story on the news today about Honda reaching settlement in a lawsuit stating 2002 - 2006 accords had odometers with readings as much as 4% off real world. The settlement had something to do with extending it beyond the original mileage limitation.
Has anyone heard/found any information on this issue?
Has anyone heard/found any information on this issue?
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Comments
http://www.hondaodometerclassaction.com/
Mrbill
If Honda is within limits having not done anything wrong but still stepping up to make customers happy, it makes me wonder what other vehicles and brands over or understate their mileage and just don't know it or don't admit it.
This is a good example of a case where a very small minority of Honda owners may reap a small benefit in isolated cases (regardless of whether their odometers may have been faulty or not), while trial lawyers laugh all the way to the bank. For Honda to have litigated this case to disprove allegations that their odometers were defective would have cost millions of dollars. It was cheaper for them to concede, admit no wrongdoing, but agree to extend warranties or lease buyouts by 2-3% beyond the stated mileage limits.
This also only pertains to mileage limits. The 3 year portion of the warranty that applies to nearly all Hondas is not affected, so the benefits of this class action are extremely small for consumers. But a few lawyers got rich in the process.
There's no question that some odometers regardless of make are defective or miscalibrated. But to subject all Honda or Acura owners to be included in this class is a waste of money and judicial resources. I threw my notices into the trash.
If the odometer calibration is 3-4% higher than actual readings -- mpg values will be deceptively higher, limited mileage warranty will be shorter, and maintenance intervals will be more frequent. These factors seem to disfavor car owners. However, higher odometer readings may actually reduce the number of speeding tickets, as we all tend to drive a bit slower when the odometer edges to the right. So, take the positive and negatives, and disregard the class action notice.
??????? What ??????
In our MDX, the damn odometer is off by 3%.
Frankly, for a company to claim that 3-4% is within the regulated amount of error for the odometer is pure BS. They can calibrate it to within .1% accuracy without breaking a sweat. Lots of manufacturers are known to have high reading speedometers. BMW and Porsche to name a couple. My 911 speedometer (digital readout) reads 65 mph when I'm actually only going 61 mph, That's a 7%+ error. But on a 370 mile highway trip to our second home, the odometer reads 370.3 miles when the independent GPS logged 370.2. Our MDX shows 381.4 for the same trip.
I am certainly no fan of trial lawyers. But I have no sympathy for an auto manufacturer that is as good as Acura/Honda, playing games with the odometer readings. You know damn well this is not an innocent mistake. This is the same company that can squeeze 120 hp out of 2 liters in the S2000. And yet an MDX odometer reads precisely 3% too high.
If they were really within some bogus range of error, there would be 50% of odometers reading too low. I guarantee you, there isn't a single one doing that. And I'll put up my 911 on that bet.
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
Take for example, external temperature monitors. I know a few people who go ballistic when their temp readings are off by 1 degree, and demand that the carmaker replace the unit under warranty. I usually tell them to get a life and worry about more important things.
I don't believe that these instruments were ever designed to be exactly precise. The technology used is inexpensive, and 95% of consumers understand and really don't get their underpants in a bind, until one day some lawyer taps them on the shoulder and suggests this could be their lucky lotto jackpot. The rest of us consumers included as class members get coupons for $1.29, thanks to the settlement.
There is no question that our judicial system should offer checks and balances, and keep Corporate America honest. There are good examples of this in recent history. However, there are also far too many examples of lawyers chasing the all might dollar and filing frivolous class action lawsuits, screwing with the legal system, to the detriment of all consumers. On the surface, this Honda case smells like that to me.
- Odometer: measures distance.
- Speedometer: measures speed.
If a manufacturer wants to fudge their speedometer +/- 5%, that's not necessarily a punishable offense. I don't like it that I have to calibrate in my mind that a 74 reading in my 911 is actually the "safe" 69 for avoiding a speeding ticket on the PA turnpike, but so be it. The issue with Honda/Acura is consistently high reading odometers.
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
In short, NO. Sure, in theory a slight deviation could occur if you decide to inflate your tires to 80 lbs of pressure with helium. But using an average tire size, they go 700 revolutions per mile. Or, say, about 7.50 feet per revolution. Consistently reading 3% high would mean that your odometer is reading 7.50 feet when your tire is only going 7.27 feet. That's over 2 3/4" off on every revolution. If, in reality, your alignment, air pressure, or any other mechanical system was causing even a fraction of that kind of variation, your car would likely blow up at 65 mph with the resonant frequencies that would result.
I bought a $29 odometer for my daughter's bicyle. It measures to 0.01 mile increments and is guaranteed accurate to within 0.1%, according to the owners manual (but still not to be used for "official" marathon or event measurement). She's ridden an accurately measured bike/jogging path with 0.1 mile markers (which is used for running 10k races) and it's dead on. So if Trek can sell a bicylce odometer that is accurate to within 0.1% for $29, I think Honda can do better than 30+ times worse.
Imagine if Honda/Acura's GPS systems were off by 3% over the United States. That would be up to a 100 mile variation from coast to coast. They'd have you looking for Main Street in the wrong bloody State. But in my TL and MDX, they can tell me which side of the street to look for my destination, whether I'm in Pittsburgh or Boston.
Don't make excuses for Honda/Acura. They have some of the world's best automotive engineers, as my experience with the S2000 validates. The fact that certain models have odometers that are consistently reading high is not an accident. And they are probably not the only violator, as my old Nissan Maxima at 155k miles was off by about 2% (equal to 3,100 miles).
In the case of my 911, the speedometer reads 5-7% too high, but the odometer is spot on, compared to an independent GPS. In the case of my former Nissan Maxima, the speedometer was about 3% high, the odometer 2%. And in the case of our MDX, the speedometer is close to spot on, whereas the odometer is 3% high. So one reading high or low doesn't necessarily mean the other one is. And, once I figured out the percentage of discrepency, it was constant. No variation due to temperature, relative humidity or stereo volume.
If you do a lot of driving over the same 370 mile route like I have done the last 20 years, you notice these little discrepencies, which turn out to be as much as a 12+ mile swing in odometer readings. Someone once suggested that maybe the higher reading comes from doing more "passing" rather than driving the entire route in the right hand lane. So on one particularly boring drive by myself, I went back and forth between the right and left lanes about once per mile, passing or not. It added about 0.2 miles to the trip. And nearly made me sea-sick.
Besides, if the instruments are indeed subject to being slightly inaccurate, they should be off kilter in both directions. Apparently that is not the case, which is suspect by itself.
Regards,
Webby
Same thing applies to people who had to pay for out-of-warranty repairs that were just outside the 36,000 mile ceiling. I threw away the paperwork, but it's all specified in the fine print.
Steve
You may very well have an accurate odometer in your 2006 Civic, but I would try a longer test than 20 miles and make sure the 1/10th mile indicators match.
So when the odometer reads 36,000 miles, it's actually 2, 880 miles TOO MUCH! You can't convince me that Honda and Acura didn't know that they were cheating the consumer???? Of course they are, and with the problems that I'm having with a car that's got about 5,000 miles on it, they don't make a good product either.......what a mistake in not buying any car other than a HONDA product
Even ignoring all of the problems and warranty work that needs repair on my RL so far, I would never have considered this car if I had known that Honda was hiding a problem like this on a car that got POOR gas mileage despite the false sticker stating 17MPG !!!!!
Too bad the NTSA doesn't get after this company for such misrepresentation.
A real bad buy that I'm stuck with for at least 3 years.... :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
It reads like this:
16 City / 21 Hwy
Yes, you are gettling low mileage, but remember a couple of things.
1.) Mileage on new vehicles usually gets better as it breaks in over a few thousand miles.
2.) Winter formula fuels lower mileage by a good 10% in many cases (mine included - Accord dropped from 28 AVG to around 25-26 MPG)
3.) Honda isn't hiding the problem, because Honda didn't make the mileage estimates. The Environmental Protection Agency is responsible for that one. I'm not saying "don't be mad," but you should at least get mad at the party responsible for those numbers.
*A question for you - Do you live in a hilly area? I'll explain my question later...
I've been in the Ridgeline forum a lot lately, and they all use shorthand for the name Ridgeline and write "RL."
I should spend some time elsewhere for awhile it seems...
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I can't delete it now, but some of the rightful info still stands about winter fuels and break-ins.
Have a great weekend all!
I have waited over 4 years and my Odyssey's fuel economy has not improved. Break in? Never saw any effect. Still use 5w20 oil too. Honda and many manufacturers do have a problem. When the sales staff boasts about EPA ratings, some buyers believe them and are justifiably angry if they never come close to those advertised ratings. No, Honda does not get a blanket excuse. The customer is still angry no matter what excuse may be concocted. Actually, Odyssey is worse than smaller Hondas in having more problem reaching EPA mileage estimates than smaller Hondas, from personal experience.
Well above estimates.
So what....
This has to do with my car being worth less on the backend due to higher than legitimate mileage.
Not to mention, the early drop of warranty.
Habitat1 is right on with comments. I am a mechanical engineer, worked at an auto parts manufacturer (that manufactured instrument cluster panels among other things), and, therefore, know that quality control could be and should be better. It is within their capabilities to be more accurate. NASA manages. As you can see, This odometer error can cost the consumer money. And it's all about pleasing the customer.
I won't ever buy another Honda...I've learned my lesson.
....today's mail brought the infamous Honda high odometer readings pending lawsuit paperwork.
Keeping in mind that I graduated from a land grant college in California (not Princeton, Yale or Notre Dame like my naval officer buddies during times nautical)........
...just don't understand
all the hate and discontent...........
Honda has acknowledged the error (the 3 - 4 per cent optomistic odometer) - and agreed to extend warranty by 5%
..seems more than fair to me. Where have I gone wrong here?
best, ez..
You are missing that Honda had to get caught by the legal system to make good on the odometer problem.
If the owner does not pursue a lawsuit, Honda just keeps collecting more lease fees and has to cover less warranty repairs because the miles on the odometer show more than actual miles. And those who have fast running odometers just before or just after the date of manufacture of the class action settlement do not receive any compensation even though their vehicles often have the same problem.
I really didn't take understand (California land grant college, right?) your last sentence.
(But I do appreciate your time/perceptions.
ez
I own a TL type S built during that period and have not received a letter. I heard about this today from my sister who caught it on the news.
But, I keep receiving a recall notice regarding the seat belt for an Acura I haven't had for 4 years !
And, I agree with all who say the mileage SHOULD be accurate. It has implications selling, warranty, trading in.
I am not making excuses for Honda. But when you consider all the good-will repairs Honda does for it's customers (after the warranty has run out), it makes it hard to believe they did this to reduce warranty claims. Leases, would be another matter.
I am very disappointed.....this is will probably be my last honda/Acura.
I wish I went with a IS350 instead....not I am stuck with this. How I see it now Honda is no better than Ford and Chevy.
I want a refund check!
why are you disappointed- because of the odometer issue or are there some major mechanical and quality issues?
(only read about it here so that is the most I know about it)
IN MY OPINION:
Do I think Honda intentionally calibrated only one of their model's odomimeters to register 3-4% higher then they should: Most likely No, or if they did it would be more widespread and closer to an acceptable error rate hovering slightly over 1% and on more models.
HOWEVER, do I think they found it out after production and could have fixed it after extensive testing = OF COURSE
3-4% is significant enough when they are doing all of the testing on the vehicle before it is released to the public it would have been noticed.
POINT: They found out after it was in the car the cost/benifit or risk/reward ratios start playing a factor.
Would the cost of recalling every accord to fix the odimeter be financially worth it = NO
Moderate probability no one would notice and file a lawsuit therefore they don't need to spend the money on the recall, bonus is the mistake is in their favor for lease milage and maintence costs.
Solution roll the dice and hope nobody notices. If they do oh well we need to do the recall and give people the milage/money back they deserve anyways.
If you ask me heavy punative damages should be levied upon the company and an audit done on all models to see if it was pervasive throughout other models
Anyways that is my longwinded 2 cents
-Dave
Yes it is true that more then likely the lawyers who filed the case will reap the most lump sum financial benifit however that doesn't mean that the general public doesn't benifit as well. Depending on if Honda was aware, and if the actively tried to cover up (de-fraud) the consumer they can be held acountable for actual damages as well as punative.
Punative damages are where the company can get hit the hardest so that it sends a message "don't try to de-fraud the general public again".
Therefore next time when they find "a mistake" in their favor next time, they might think twice before sneaking by the unsuspecting consumer. And it goes for all car-manufactures not just Honda.
Do you think if Ford ran into a similar situation as Honda, but Honda got hit with a mega-million dollar punative damage verdict they would chose to take the same road and try and cover it up, or bite the bullet and pre-emptively recall and corect the situation.
Again thats just my long-winded 2 cents
-Dave
With that said, I benefit little from this settlement as I am over the mileage on my 2004 warranty. I would think it appropriate to award at least a credit good for a service. Now if Ford, Nissan, GM and Chrysler will cover my former vehicles ....
So are you mad that you drive the car? Your post just makes it seem that you don't like that fact it has that many miles.
Maybe following up on what is wrong with you tl would be helpful...
IMHO, in the vast majority of cases the calibration is within the specifications of government regulation. I realize that some folks think there's some kind of conspiracy going on but let's get real folks.