Dodge, Ford, or Chevy: Which one...?

meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
edited March 2014 in Ford
This topic is a continuation of Topic 863....

Dodge,Ford,Chevy ----- Who Wins? - II. Please
continue these discussions here. Thanks!

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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Comments

  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    KC,


    Are you still around? Do you still have the same Ram?
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Has anyone seen the October sales figs?

    Or are they recounting those too?
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    The even the S-10 sells almost 3 times as much as the Tundra!.....and it's even in the same class!....(compacts)

    - Tim
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Still here, Roc :)

    Closing in on the 65,000 mile mark, just made payment #54 of 60. I have to admit, I can't wait to see the next Ram, even though the heavy duty trucks won't be revealed until January of 2002 (the all-new 1500 will be shown at the Detroit Auto Show in January). My only concern is, will Chrysler be around to sell me a new Ram in 2003?

    The latest in the DaimlerChrysler saga was launched today - Kerk Kerkorian, the third largest single stockholder of DC, and who previously held a major portion of the former Chrysler Corporation stock, has sued to dissolve the DaimlerChrysler merger on the grounds that the alleged "merger of equals" was a calculated lie by Daimler Benz. The CNN.com story is here: CNNfn/Kerkorian lawsuit Nov 27 2000

    kcram
    Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
    edmunds.com Town Hall
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    Kerkorian is an idiot. I seem to recall a few years back when that guy made rumblings about the same merger. He's the one who started the rumour of Jeep being spun off on it's own and possibly being bought by Ford.
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    As of Oct: 748,025 Ford
    699,901 Chevy/GMC combined


    -sigh-


    And I thought the new Silverado introduction was going to overtake Ford....;)
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Ford takes into account the F250 and F350 and F450 right? Hmmmm seems the 2500HD and 3500 just came out for chevy and gmc. Im not saying gm will over take but why dont you wait a few months after these trucks strat showing up to do a comparison

    Ryan
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    .....if the numbers were as farr behind as Dodge or Toys.....then it would be something to touut about..

    Ford makes cheaper trucks.....hence more sales

    -Tim
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    I doubt that. I bet they are both pretty close in that dept.

    Ryan
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    The only thing Chevy has numberwise over Ford is the number of complaints.
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Remember Ford is selling a complete lineup this year, including the Supercrew.

    GMs has emptied the C/K stock and ramping up the HDs, a line they expect to sell 250-300K next year. They are probably losing 50-75K in the changeover. Plus, GMs Avalanche and 1/2 ton full bed Crew cab, and the GMC C series are still coming out. I would pretty confidently assume the Sierra/Silverado halftons are outselling the F150, while the F250+ is outselling GM by 200K.

    You just wait, Roc. Enjoy it while you can..... ;)
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    is FLEET sales!!! not consumer purchases. Ford
    sales are higher due to Construction/utilities
    buying FORD trucks and Vans. GM sells more to
    sonsumers...
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    CHEVY WINS!!!!!
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    According to the chicago tribune, quoting a souce from GM, GM leads in the 1/2 ton sales by 3% but loses the 3/4 and 1 ton sales by so much that ford wins.
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    Construction/utility sales, they buy up the
    cheaper 3/4 and 1 ton Fords. Watch sales
    skyrocket on GM 3/4 & 1 ton silverado's with
    6.0 engines. FORD may lose it bigtime....

    CHEVY/GM prospective new winner...
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Ford must have tons of fleet sales....cuz here in the Motor city...GM dominates as farr as what you see on the streets

    - Tim
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    i've never seen a model vs model breakdown, but I suspect GM is ahead in the 1/2 tons and Ford is FAR AHEAD in the 3/4 and ups. For now...;)
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    cdean Chevy/ GMC 1/2 ton sales are 3% higher than ford. Ford seriously dominates the 3/4 and 1 ton market. I rarely see a 2500 series GM around here and 3500s are even more rare.

    Amora Ford outsells GM in the 3/4 and 1 ton series because GM hasn't been marketing a truck that is remotely competitive. We'll see what happens with the new line.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    When Diamler-Benz "merged" with chrysler, I thought that it would be great. New money, combined technology, etc... would give chrysler a shot in the arm. Now it looks to be a big mistake. Instead of injecting cash into chrysler they are draining it at a high rate and justifying it as "services rendered". I hope it gets a little cleared up by next model year. There is a good article on this on car-truck.com under buzz.
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    mod,

    Props to you, that was good.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    zzzzz, I happen to think GM makes the better truck right now, but that could change. I though Ford was the better truck before GM's remodel, but these #'s don't mean squat. Geeze, why don't you rip off your shirt and scream it out at the top of your lungs that your truck is the best - that should get your testasterone (sp?) going...
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    Hmmmmm....looks like Dodge will win in 18 mos..

    Hope Chevy buys Dodge, puts Viper V10 pushrod engine in new RAM for us Babyboomers and the DOHC hemi's for the GEN Xers...can
    hardly wait...

    "Long live my '00 C2500 that was built 1/27/00
    at 12:55pm in Arlington, Texas"
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    ...in half ton sales??? I demand a recount...then a recount of that...then a hand recount....then I'm taking someone to court about something...no make that everything...surely I can drag this out till Ford catches up.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ...nothing like getting ahead of yourself eh?

    - Tim
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    I am about as far from a brand loyalist as you can get. I've owned trucks from all three and I buy what I feel is the best for my needs and budget at the time. As far as the comment on specs on paper is concerned, I've had 2 GM transmissions go out within 54,000 miles on 3/4 ton towing well within specs. Most every magazine test I read that does a comparision involving a GM vehicle, the magazine seems to not be able meet the same numbers (horsepower)that GM advertises. Thier products are fine but I take thier printed specifications with a grain of salt.
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    I agree, printed specs do not agree with real
    road tests. Most of the truck mags have tested
    all four contenders with payloads and the results
    are not consistant with published specs. If
    memory serves me right, TRUCK TREND had the Dodge
    RAM 5.9L performing on par with higher advertised powered trucks. The DYNO tests showed the GM
    units putting out dismal HP/TORQUE readings.
  • jaijayjaijay Member Posts: 162
    Here is an article published by Edmunds on horse power ratings. It was quite interesting and explains why the 5.3 looked weak on the Dyno.

    http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/horsepower/index.html
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    Sounds like GM needs to change the gears in the trucks to match the engine, but I cannot imagine running a truck engine at 5000rpm all the time.
  • jaijayjaijay Member Posts: 162
    that is not the problem. Here is what was said about automatic transmissions and the Dyno as quoted from Edmunds.

    "The automatic-equipped cars can sometimes be more difficult, because when full-throttle is applied, many transmissions tend to downshift to a lower gear. Luckily, the Lincoln has a manual-shift gate, so we could hold the car in fourth from around 3,000 rpm to redline without having it downshift. The GMC has a speed limiter of around 105 mph, so to get the engine to redline, we had to make the runs in second gear. Although the general rule of thumb is about a 10-15 percent power loss for a given vehicle, those with automatic transmissions will usually have a greater loss in power to the wheels than the same vehicle would have with a manual."

    So after testing the GMC showed poor numbers however Edmunds explains:

    "Where did nearly 100 horsepower and a full 100 foot-pounds of torque go? Simple. The Sierra had a vehicle-speed limiter, so it wasn't really possible to get a representative reading. The speed limiter was low enough (around 105 mph) that we had to do the pulls in second gear to get the engine to run to redline. As such, power ratings were down, because the numbers come up lower if you can't make the run in a gear that has a 1:1 ratio. Take the speed limiter away (so the runs could be done in third gear) and we would've probably seen about 220-230 horsepower at the rear wheels and about 260 foot-pounds of torque."
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    It just seems that if the engine cannot reach its full potential they need to either remove the speed limmiter (then there is the tire blowout problem) or change the gearing to allow the engine to develop full power. Also I would think being stuck in 2nd gear would inflate the torque numbers with the gear ratio factored in.
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    I've argued this for a while and I am blue in the face. I just don't see how a manufacturer can falsely inflate numbers and get away with it (see Ford Cobras).

    There is a numbers game here that is fundamentally about the way horsepower is calculated that is very hard to understand for folks who don't know the true mathematical definition of horsepower.

    The GM engines are not over rated. The torque curve is flat across the rpm band.

    hp=torque*rpm (not exactly, but basically).

    So if torque is the same everywhere, then your peak horsepower is going to be at you peak rpm!!

    Simple, right?

    But you rarely ever operate at that rpm level. Ford and Dodge engines torque fall WAY off at higher rpm levels, thats why their horsepowers aren't as high. AND THAT IS ALSO WHY THE DYNO READINGS WERE CLOSER ON F & D ENGINES: the horsepower peak was nowhere near tranny downshifts or speed limiters, like it is for the GMs.

    So, JC, the 5.3 is only a 285 hp engine around 5000 rpms. Thats why it does not feel like one from an idle. In passing situations or long pulls uphill situations is when you feel the 285 hp.
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    I knew someone would describe it better than I could. I still dont like the sound of a truck engine at 5000 rpm always sounds like it will scatter itself when they rev that high. I remember my friends 95 GMC with the 350 vortech the first time we pulled his boat with it and we were working the engine both of us almost jumped out of the truck it was so loud.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Lets all sue for false advertisement

    Ryan
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    If memory serves me right, to calculate
    TORQUE IN FT-LBS use equation:
    5252 X HP/ RP

    1 HP = TORQUE IN FT-LBS X RPM/ 5252

    We all know it takes a pretty big HORSE to lift
    33,000 lbs one foot in a minute.

    There is awesome book called AUTO MATH
    HANDBOOK by John Lawlor available mail order for
    you non math/engineer types. It has basic
    formulas, equations, calculations and theory for all Automotive ethusiasts, very
    interesting and informative. Lots of pictures
    too...

    REGARDS TO ALL MATH LOVERS and and HATERS...
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    damn i hate calculus. 1 more semester woohoo

    Ryan
  • davids1davids1 Member Posts: 411
    Hopefully you'll get to take Differential Equations. Just like Calculus, only backwards. Double WooHoo!!!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    both calculus courses....math was a piece of cake....now physics....quantum theory....that was the pits...who would have guessed that dilithium and trilithium would be used as a source of fuel in the future...
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Diff eqs and linear algebra is next semester. I am currently in multivariable calculus aka triple integrals

    Ryan
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    when there are programs to do it for you?
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    In college Advanced Engineering Calculus, I was instructed on how to take the triple derivative of a three-dimensional bi-lateral equation. Like I need THAT to balance a checkbook...

    (By the way, that same professor gave us some great advice about overly complicated-looking calc problems. If you can't figure it out in 5 minutes, the answer is zero, one, or infinity - and he was right LOL)

    As for horsepower and torque ratings, where they're taken, and what it means to the vehicle owner... use the torque curves, but examine where your driving habits keep the tach. My Cummins exceeds 2400 rpm maybe twice a month. Back in September while it was at the dealer getting serviced, I got a loaner of a very new (only 1900 miles) 4.8L Silverado from the Enterprise rent-a-car my dealer uses. Let me tell you, that engine was more rev-happy than my dad's 1993 Thunderbird 5.0 HO, regardless of where the Tow/Haul switch was. Even under what I thought was light/moderate throttle, zzzzzzzzip, I was at 3500 rpm and climbing in 1st before that trans would upshift. I didn't like that at all, because I don't (have to) drive that way. Thus I find high-rpm engines useless to me, and am happier with diesels and low-rpm gassers. They are always in their powerband the way i drive. I also have an issue with engine wear for those free-revving engines - there's no data as to how well those new GM V8s will survive over 7 years of daily abuse. But for those who want them, they're there and available to them.

    Heck, my last F150 had more horsepower than my Cummins Ram (185hp 302 vs 180hp Cummins), but the torque rating is no comparison (270 lb-ft in the Ford, 420 in the oil-burner). Guess which truck noticed when the bed was full?

    kcram
    Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
    edmunds.com Town Hall
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    Took four years of heavy math in late 70's early
    80's. Being Design engineer working in R & D and
    conceptual work, the SUN UNIX workstn does it all,
    Stress, mass prop, summations of moments of enertia. Only math I do or have done for last
    10 years is high school TRIG. Simple triangle
    calcs in my head. Even in early years I maybe used 10% of what I studied. The EE's do the
    thermal analysis. Pro/E and Mechanica software
    does it all. Was able to help 8th grade neighbor
    with algebra homework. I did it the old way,
    she protested saying her teacher wanted done a
    certain way....she still got an "A" on test.

    If you like numbers GREAT!! If not, sell SHOES,
    HONDAS or be a $100,000/yr Fireman. Still need to
    know how to count though...

    If you want to study some funny math, take
    COMPUTER SCIENCE, that Boolean Algebra will
    separate the sissies from the [non-permissible content removed] kickers,
    if you want to do math calculations all day long,
    forget engineering, be an ACTUARY for some Insurance or Investment firm.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    What do you mean by end up like them? I am curious i wanna go tell my friends how they are gonna end up. I have a bunch going into EE and they are already getting gray hair and some losing it

    Ryan
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I had to decide whether to go the Computer Science or EE route. Took one look at the EE students and said forget it....didn't want to end up like them.....So Information and Computer Science it was....made money on the side writing programs for all the MIS majors. Ah, the future administrators of the world couldn't even write a blackjack program....
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    That's when you're at a light and you mash that pedal into the carpet. If you're smillin' in 10 seconds then she got horsepower, if you're still waitin' for the get up and go, she don't have have it. Maybe the horsepower was an option on that 5.3 Tahoe and it didn't have it?
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    Still think that GM either needs to change gears to allow the truck to operate in the meat of the power band or change cams to lower the curve down to a more usable RPM.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Quote:

    "or be a $100,000/yr Fireman. Still need to
    know how to count though..."
    --------------------------------------------------
    What's wrong with that?????

    With a couple call backs I might have to work 12 days this month!!! LOL!!!
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    In our cul-de-sac is a Fireman, drives '00 silverado 5.3, etc.....a great guy, tall, thin,
    What I mean is that he needs to know how to count
    all the greenbacks in his wallet...also see
    doctor to take medication to stop him from
    laughing all the way to bank. Like MOI!!
    I need to work 8 hours a week OT as contract
    Engineer to break 115K yr. i need a raise...
    Programmers getting $100/hr, Pro/E senior
    ME's with security clearance getting $55-65/hr..

    EE's in silicon valley laughing all the way to bank.....

    Love those engineers. May go back and take on-line courses to get BS in CIS OR CS and kick back and be a cake eater making mucho moolah...
This discussion has been closed.