Dodge, Ford, or Chevy: Which one...?
This topic is a continuation of Topic 863....
Dodge,Ford,Chevy ----- Who Wins? - II. Please
continue these discussions here. Thanks!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Dodge,Ford,Chevy ----- Who Wins? - II. Please
continue these discussions here. Thanks!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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Are you still around? Do you still have the same Ram?
Or are they recounting those too?
- Tim
Closing in on the 65,000 mile mark, just made payment #54 of 60. I have to admit, I can't wait to see the next Ram, even though the heavy duty trucks won't be revealed until January of 2002 (the all-new 1500 will be shown at the Detroit Auto Show in January). My only concern is, will Chrysler be around to sell me a new Ram in 2003?
The latest in the DaimlerChrysler saga was launched today - Kerk Kerkorian, the third largest single stockholder of DC, and who previously held a major portion of the former Chrysler Corporation stock, has sued to dissolve the DaimlerChrysler merger on the grounds that the alleged "merger of equals" was a calculated lie by Daimler Benz. The CNN.com story is here: CNNfn/Kerkorian lawsuit Nov 27 2000
kcram
Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
edmunds.com Town Hall
699,901 Chevy/GMC combined
-sigh-
And I thought the new Silverado introduction was going to overtake Ford....;)
Ryan
Ford makes cheaper trucks.....hence more sales
-Tim
Ryan
GMs has emptied the C/K stock and ramping up the HDs, a line they expect to sell 250-300K next year. They are probably losing 50-75K in the changeover. Plus, GMs Avalanche and 1/2 ton full bed Crew cab, and the GMC C series are still coming out. I would pretty confidently assume the Sierra/Silverado halftons are outselling the F150, while the F250+ is outselling GM by 200K.
You just wait, Roc. Enjoy it while you can.....
sales are higher due to Construction/utilities
buying FORD trucks and Vans. GM sells more to
sonsumers...
cheaper 3/4 and 1 ton Fords. Watch sales
skyrocket on GM 3/4 & 1 ton silverado's with
6.0 engines. FORD may lose it bigtime....
CHEVY/GM prospective new winner...
- Tim
Amora Ford outsells GM in the 3/4 and 1 ton series because GM hasn't been marketing a truck that is remotely competitive. We'll see what happens with the new line.
Props to you, that was good.
Hope Chevy buys Dodge, puts Viper V10 pushrod engine in new RAM for us Babyboomers and the DOHC hemi's for the GEN Xers...can
hardly wait...
"Long live my '00 C2500 that was built 1/27/00
at 12:55pm in Arlington, Texas"
- Tim
road tests. Most of the truck mags have tested
all four contenders with payloads and the results
are not consistant with published specs. If
memory serves me right, TRUCK TREND had the Dodge
RAM 5.9L performing on par with higher advertised powered trucks. The DYNO tests showed the GM
units putting out dismal HP/TORQUE readings.
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/horsepower/index.html
"The automatic-equipped cars can sometimes be more difficult, because when full-throttle is applied, many transmissions tend to downshift to a lower gear. Luckily, the Lincoln has a manual-shift gate, so we could hold the car in fourth from around 3,000 rpm to redline without having it downshift. The GMC has a speed limiter of around 105 mph, so to get the engine to redline, we had to make the runs in second gear. Although the general rule of thumb is about a 10-15 percent power loss for a given vehicle, those with automatic transmissions will usually have a greater loss in power to the wheels than the same vehicle would have with a manual."
So after testing the GMC showed poor numbers however Edmunds explains:
"Where did nearly 100 horsepower and a full 100 foot-pounds of torque go? Simple. The Sierra had a vehicle-speed limiter, so it wasn't really possible to get a representative reading. The speed limiter was low enough (around 105 mph) that we had to do the pulls in second gear to get the engine to run to redline. As such, power ratings were down, because the numbers come up lower if you can't make the run in a gear that has a 1:1 ratio. Take the speed limiter away (so the runs could be done in third gear) and we would've probably seen about 220-230 horsepower at the rear wheels and about 260 foot-pounds of torque."
There is a numbers game here that is fundamentally about the way horsepower is calculated that is very hard to understand for folks who don't know the true mathematical definition of horsepower.
The GM engines are not over rated. The torque curve is flat across the rpm band.
hp=torque*rpm (not exactly, but basically).
So if torque is the same everywhere, then your peak horsepower is going to be at you peak rpm!!
Simple, right?
But you rarely ever operate at that rpm level. Ford and Dodge engines torque fall WAY off at higher rpm levels, thats why their horsepowers aren't as high. AND THAT IS ALSO WHY THE DYNO READINGS WERE CLOSER ON F & D ENGINES: the horsepower peak was nowhere near tranny downshifts or speed limiters, like it is for the GMs.
So, JC, the 5.3 is only a 285 hp engine around 5000 rpms. Thats why it does not feel like one from an idle. In passing situations or long pulls uphill situations is when you feel the 285 hp.
Ryan
TORQUE IN FT-LBS use equation:
5252 X HP/ RP
1 HP = TORQUE IN FT-LBS X RPM/ 5252
We all know it takes a pretty big HORSE to lift
33,000 lbs one foot in a minute.
There is awesome book called AUTO MATH
HANDBOOK by John Lawlor available mail order for
you non math/engineer types. It has basic
formulas, equations, calculations and theory for all Automotive ethusiasts, very
interesting and informative. Lots of pictures
too...
REGARDS TO ALL MATH LOVERS and and HATERS...
Ryan
Ryan
(By the way, that same professor gave us some great advice about overly complicated-looking calc problems. If you can't figure it out in 5 minutes, the answer is zero, one, or infinity - and he was right LOL)
As for horsepower and torque ratings, where they're taken, and what it means to the vehicle owner... use the torque curves, but examine where your driving habits keep the tach. My Cummins exceeds 2400 rpm maybe twice a month. Back in September while it was at the dealer getting serviced, I got a loaner of a very new (only 1900 miles) 4.8L Silverado from the Enterprise rent-a-car my dealer uses. Let me tell you, that engine was more rev-happy than my dad's 1993 Thunderbird 5.0 HO, regardless of where the Tow/Haul switch was. Even under what I thought was light/moderate throttle, zzzzzzzzip, I was at 3500 rpm and climbing in 1st before that trans would upshift. I didn't like that at all, because I don't (have to) drive that way. Thus I find high-rpm engines useless to me, and am happier with diesels and low-rpm gassers. They are always in their powerband the way i drive. I also have an issue with engine wear for those free-revving engines - there's no data as to how well those new GM V8s will survive over 7 years of daily abuse. But for those who want them, they're there and available to them.
Heck, my last F150 had more horsepower than my Cummins Ram (185hp 302 vs 180hp Cummins), but the torque rating is no comparison (270 lb-ft in the Ford, 420 in the oil-burner). Guess which truck noticed when the bed was full?
kcram
Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
edmunds.com Town Hall
80's. Being Design engineer working in R & D and
conceptual work, the SUN UNIX workstn does it all,
Stress, mass prop, summations of moments of enertia. Only math I do or have done for last
10 years is high school TRIG. Simple triangle
calcs in my head. Even in early years I maybe used 10% of what I studied. The EE's do the
thermal analysis. Pro/E and Mechanica software
does it all. Was able to help 8th grade neighbor
with algebra homework. I did it the old way,
she protested saying her teacher wanted done a
certain way....she still got an "A" on test.
If you like numbers GREAT!! If not, sell SHOES,
HONDAS or be a $100,000/yr Fireman. Still need to
know how to count though...
If you want to study some funny math, take
COMPUTER SCIENCE, that Boolean Algebra will
separate the sissies from the [non-permissible content removed] kickers,
if you want to do math calculations all day long,
forget engineering, be an ACTUARY for some Insurance or Investment firm.
Ryan
"or be a $100,000/yr Fireman. Still need to
know how to count though..."
--------------------------------------------------
What's wrong with that?????
With a couple call backs I might have to work 12 days this month!!! LOL!!!
What I mean is that he needs to know how to count
all the greenbacks in his wallet...also see
doctor to take medication to stop him from
laughing all the way to bank. Like MOI!!
I need to work 8 hours a week OT as contract
Engineer to break 115K yr. i need a raise...
Programmers getting $100/hr, Pro/E senior
ME's with security clearance getting $55-65/hr..
EE's in silicon valley laughing all the way to bank.....
Love those engineers. May go back and take on-line courses to get BS in CIS OR CS and kick back and be a cake eater making mucho moolah...