(bpeebles) I only have 17k miles, and Schedule A type driving, which calls for 30k fluid changes.
I'm pretty sure it's a "learning" problem as you say - Would dealer recalibration only be limited to shift points? I wouldn't want to affect idle, etc.
I'm new to the group and have a question regarding engine revving (possibly the choke not closing?). I just got my 2002 Dakota Quad Cab (4WD with a 4.7 liter engine and an automatic transmission) in mid-April and have thus far put on around 1,900 miles. Overall, I like the truck: the ride, the handling, functionality, the size, the looks, etc. Not very impressed with the gas mileage but hope that when I get my tonneau cover, that will give me a couple more mpg's (not a big improvement but anything would help). Got the bed sprayed w/ a Line-X liner and was really impressed with the job. Haven't used it to any real capacity but after talking to others that went w/ a Line-X liner, I'm not concerned.
Anyway, on to the real issue. Every few times (once or twice a week) I start the truck when it's cold, the engine is noticeably louder. I generally wait a good 30 seconds or so before putting it into gear and then driving off. When I put it in Drive (w/ overdrive - haven't tried it w/ overdrive off), I generally have to drive 5-6 blocks below 20 mph before the engine goes back to normal (then I'm good to go). The tach reads the same as when the problem doesn't occur; Reads between 1500 and 200 RPMs when driving below 20 mph. It almost sounds as if the choke is open and then shuts after driving it these 5-6 blocks.
Is this common with the Dakota and the 4.7 liter engine? Has anyone else had this problem and what needs to be done to resolve it? I haven't talked to the dealership where I bought the truck as I wanted to get the inside scoop first. Any help and/or recommendations (recalls?) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...
The "loud" sound has been discussed at length and it is NORMAL. It is coming from the fan. It seems a lot of people say they "have" to go slower until the noise disappears, but I think it's just a psychological thing. The loud noise keeps them from pressing further on the accelerator pedal. The 4.7 is fuel injected. There is no choke as fuel delivery is computer controlled.
02 dak qc: You have described what I have experienced and my thoughts were the engine sounds as if it is reving higher than normal but the tach is normal. I am the first to leave my subdivision at 6am. My neighbors first brought the issue to my attention because of the obvious loud noise. It is strange how the (fan) which I am told is responsible for the noise comes on some mornings and not others. Previous posts discussed this issue and claim it is only the operation of the fan and not some other DODGE disease. Like you, I travel a few blocks and it's gone. Next time it happens mash the gas pedal and look at your tach. Anyway it has been doing this to me for the last 30k and no damage to the engine. Still my neighbors who are keenly aware of all the brake problems among other malfunctions I have had, are certain my engine is going to blow some morning at 6am.
I have a 1998 Dakota 4X4 SLT extended cab. It has 60,000 miles and recently started making a loud popping sound whenever braking or making a sharp turn to either left or right. The popping sound seems to be coming from some where in the steering column. Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions, advice, etc. Thanks for the help.
(quaddub) The engine computer is a seperate unit from the automatic transmission computer. Although there is some communication between the 2 units, it is unlikely that the IDLE would be affected by the dealer "flashing" the transmission controller.
It is not a "recalibration" that a dealer would do... it is more a re-programming of one or both of the computers based on any new software that has become available.... sorta like upgrading from win95 to winXT on your home computer.
If you wish to try to "reset" the computers yourself... Just disconnect the (-) termenal on your battery for about 20 minutes. (this will also reset your radiostations and alarm settings too.)
Been very busy the past few days. Mike's road rash has healed up good. All that is left is his arm, foot and knee. His arm really hurts so does his foot and knee. Couldn't put a cast on his foot. We go Friday to get a bone stimulator. One bone is his arm has a piece that could not be screwed together and it may not grow back. Doc says to put the stimulator on it to promote bone growth. If that doesn't work then he will have to have a bone graft. It happen May 24 and he is still a little sore all over. I also talk with an attorney tomorrow about our med pay. Bills up too 21K. All an all, he's feeling better, just restless. He just wishes his arm would heal faster and not hurt so much. Plus he wants to go back to work. Plans were to work all he could before he went back to college this fall.
Good to hear that Mike is getting better, maybe just not as quickly as he would like. I hope the stimulator does the trick on his arm. Well, I was curious how he was doing. Tell Mike he is still in my thoughts and prayers and to hang in there.
I have a '94 Dakota that I had in the shop for three weeks and just got it back today. About 8 months ago I lost track of oil changes and let it go for 13K miles instead of the usual 4K. I opened the plug and the oil barely came out. I had to add a cleaner (solvent) to get it thin enough to empty. The oil pressure was starting to fluctuate when this happened. There appeared to be no significant effects from this except for a slight ticking.
Forward to 8 months later. I was driving down the highway and lost all oil pressure. I had just done an oil change 1000 miles earlier. I pulled into a quickie oil change palce and the guy told me it was probably a bad sending unit. I believed him (foolishly) and went on down the road until the engine abruptly quit. I had to replace the engine. The engine looked like it had a thick tar coating inside it. The mechanic told me he has had other 3.9L Dakota engines in with the same problem that he new the owners were good about oil changes. He hinted that it might be a design problem and I was wondering if there were others that have experienced this. I continue to think that my one experience with the extended oil change wouldn't cause this kind of trouble a year later with no problems in between, would it?
I do not believe there is an inherent problem or design flaw in the 3.9L engine that would cause this problem. I know a number of people that have had the 3.9L V6, some well over 150,000 miles, and have never had any kind of serious problems, especially catastrophic failures. Chrysler engines in particular have always incorporated over generous oil drain passages and are exceptionally efficient at purging by the PCV system.
Oil sludging in a in an otherwise well designed and correctly manufactured engine is caused by the following major contributors:
*Extended oil changes
*Short trip driving
*Low engine operating temperature
*10W-40 motor oils
*Incorrectly operating crankcase ventilation system
A combination of any of the above can accelerate oil sludging problems very, very rapidly, especially in colder or damp climates where moisture builds up inside the engine. This is also true in cases of where a small headgasket leak is present.
That is a statement emanating from total ignorance. Oil viscosity has nothing to do with sludge. DIRT, CARBON and accumulated DEPOSITS cause sludge. Any modern SAE grade oil, properly changed as per the manufacturers recommendations, will not sludge. 10-40, 20-50, or even straight 30 or 40...that has nothing whatsoever to do with this problem. It is amazing the stupidity and misinformation revealed on this board. Some of these posts give me a lot of laughs ! ;-)
The wider the viscosity range, the more "viscosity index improver" that needs to be added to the oil in order to maintain the proper viscosity. Any motor oil, particularly dino oil, will begin to separate out various components at high operationing/stress situations. IN this case, a 10w40 oil will have more index improvers than say a 10w30 or even a 5w30 oil. These additive packages leave behind residue and separate out from the base stock to which they are added. The result? Deposits left behind.
Finally, tone it down a bit. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with postings here but getting in a persons face the way you did is not what we're all here for. Try other forums if that is your style. Who knows, perhaps dustyk has a degree in chemical engineering? WOuld you call him ignorant then?
disagreeing is ok as long as you don't dog someone. How dumb or smart the info is here , does not matter, its all good.Hey I can't spell but I'm not dumb. No one knows everything, that is why people ask questions, so we can learn. Don't ever be afraid of asking, its the only way to learn. Mikes getting better and thanks to all who have asked about him.
You will find that not changing the oil for 13000 miles was the cause of the problem, 30WT oil left in an engine for extended time will coagulate and will not want to flow, Fords used to be real bad for this,( Police Cars).
In order to produce a multiviscosity motor oil that meets a certain operating temperature and viscosity range, oil producers use a number of chemicals added to a base oil stock. These include pour-point depressants (PPDs) to extend the flow range as the temperature of the oil drops, as well as viscosity index improvers (VIIs)that bind oil molecules together as the temperature rises.
Depending on the static viscosity of the base stock, various proportions of PPDs and VIIs are used to produce the design viscosity range. There is a chemical counter reaction between PPDs and VIIs since chemically they are trying to achieve completely different results in the same oil formula. Because of chemical counter reaction there is a practical limit to the amounts of PPDs and VIIs that can be used in any blend.
10W-40 motor oils represent that limit due to the chemical stretching of the oil formulation. This makes 10W-40 motor oils somewhat unstable and certain operating conditions trigger or exacerbate this instability.
For example, one manufacturer may use a certain ratio of PPDs versus VIIs to achieve the 10W-40 viscosity range, depending on their base stock. After time in the high temperature, pumping action environment of an engine, some of the chemicals used as PPDs and VIIs begin to return to their natural non-blended state. This may leave the oil with more active VII or PPD which can produce "thining" or "thickening" of the oil as more miles are put on (most 10W-40 blends will usually thicken).
Along with other chemicals (catalysts, anti-rust additives, anti-foaming agents, etc.) the once multiviscosity motor oil becomes base stock with separate chemicals that maintain their own independent chemical properties. These are often not conducive to the rather harsh internal environment of a piston engine, and the biggest problem for which 10W-40 blends are known, is the tendency to hold moisture and unsuspend acids after it has destabilized, among other unsavory chemical characteristics.
The destabilizing point at which a 10W-40 (or any multiviscosity oil) becomes a sludge accellerant is determined by a number of factors, predominantly associated with the number of heating and cooling cycles of the oil and/or high speed operation. In most cases the service limit will be shorter with 10W-40 than with other blends. Here in the Northeast sludging problems associated with 10W-40 are more acute because of the high humidity, colder climate that produces a high moisture environment in a piston engine.
For the reasons stated above a number of auto manufacturers do not recommend the use of 10W-40 oils in their engines. Our 1999 Toyota and my 1993 Nissan are just two of them.
Dusty Graduate General Motors Institute (remote) Tonawanda Engine School, Buffalo, New York Certified Fuel Delivery & Induction Technician Certified Engine Technician Associate Field Representative - Buick Motor Division (1966-67)
You honor me with your question, sir, but I'm not in possesion of any emperical information that may help you. I'll be glad to offer some advice.
I believe that most engine designers do the best job they can given the tooling, materials, and cost parameters mandated by the cost control (read: cost containment) types and the unenlightened "bottom-line" mentality guys now prevalent in US industry.
Despite the often common belief, I do believe that (most, anyway) engine designers know what they're doing and I think they specify the best lubricant for their design. In addition, engineers have better mold and tooling techniques available to them, better materials, and better lubricants. A 1955 Buick with 100,000 miles on one rebuild was considered exceptionally high mileage not that many years ago. Today, many engine designs easily permit accumulated mileage of 100,000 or more without major service. This is partly due to technological advances in lubricants. The average multi-vis motor oil is a much better quality product than even 10 years ago.
My general recommendation is to follow the manufacturer's guidelines and you should realize excellent service and reliability.
I would also recommend using the recommended viscosity range for temperature. There is a "bigger is better" or "more is better" mentality common to automobile types, and this is one area that that philosophy can get you into trouble. I know guys who run 20-50, or straight 40 or 50 weight oils in their cars. One must realize that merely increasing the film strength of the oil is not the whole story. Correct lubrication also depends on supplying enough cool oil to friction-potential parts. As you increase viscosity you are also reducing the flow of oil to various critical areas. You may not necessarily be supplying that much greater film strength, but also seriously reducing flow that could lead to intermittent metal-to-metal contact and resultant damage from using a higher viscosity oil.
Synthetic oils generally offer enhanced lubrication qualities, but here it must be asked if they are worth it. This is not intended to be a contentional question, but there is a practical limit to realizing whatever benefit a synthetic oil provides. Some synthetics start out with better friction and shear numbers, for example, but may quickly erode to non-synthetic numbers in a low number of driven miles.
Try to get the oil mnufacturer's Material Data Sheet for their product and compare the specifications. You might be surprised at how some of them compare with conventional oils. For example, many conventional oils now attain the same low-friction "energy conserving" rating as synthetics.
Another problem is contamination. Despite synthetics generally being a better motor oil overall they will accumulate contamination at the same rate as conventional motor oils. Dirty oil is dirty oil and this, in my opinion, offsets any benefit from trying to use synthetics as an extended frequency item.
Where synthetics do offer some enhanced performance is usually at the extreme ends of the engine operating temperature range -- low temperature flow and high temperature viscosity integrity. However, as I mentioned earlier there is some question about the longevity of this advantage in actual use. But there isn't a price on piece of mind, either. If so inclined to have an edge, synthetics will generally provide them.
I would not recommend using a synthetic motor oil in an engine until it is completely broken in. The increased low-friction advantages of some synthetics can extend the break-in period of an engine.
As far as the new 4.7 Chrysler engine goes, I'm hearing that it's an exceptional engine, not unlike most Chrysler engines. Chrysler has a long history of solid design, albeit conservative, especially in engines. Even the 2.2 and 2.5 four-cylinder FWD engines did no worse than their American competitors, and probably better in most respects overall. Chrysler V8s are either exceptional or awesome, the Slant-Six is legendary.
Dak, even so much that I got rid of it. But I bounce in here from time to time to share my experiences and some "backyard" mechanic experience as well. Senior members have requested that I continue to offer insight. For which I am humbled and honored.
But I can wholeheartedly agree, despite the issues I had, Chrysler does (and did) build absolutely solid engines. I've run their 4 bangers, sixes (the slant six) v-8's of every permutation save for the 340 and the 426 hemi. ANd I ran them hard. Never did I break one. Rotors yes, water pumps of course, broke several ujoints as a teenager but never the rear axle. SMoked the tires on my Cordoba almost down to the rims yet that 360 (with mods of course) never sqawked once. The slant six took more abuse than I'm sure Chrysler planned and it was running when I got rid of it. The 2.2/2.5 were a bit rough but again, totally solid designs.
My fav? I'd have to go with the 318 since I had so many, but the 4.7 comes darn close. Had I kept the Dak, I am certain it would have been at the top of my list.
Now if only they can get their xmissions back to the old torqueflight days and oh....those ROTORS...........but I digress.
Thanks dustyK for helping me go down memory lane tonight! It was fun.
I have learned something tonight. I do have a question. If 10w-40 is so bad for the reasons you listed, is 20w-50 just as bad? The reason for the question; I have a motorcycle that has the recommended 20w-50 in it. I never allow more than 2k miles on a change, usually I will change it around 1k to 1.5k. You've got me to thinking that maybe I should run a single weight in it.
Jim, with motorcycles, it has been my personal experience that a manufacturers recommendation may be different depending upon the type of cooling. Air cooling is much more erratic by its nature, than liquid cooling. You did not indicate in your posting, whether your bike employed air or liquid cooling. It sounds as if your oil change intervals are more than to be expected, but in order for a valid opinion to be offered, it's best to indicate the type of cooling. Just my thoughts.
............are not chemically stretched as much as 10W-40, and therefore fairly stable. From my understanding, the problem is also more acute when trying to bring the viscosity range to the low end. I think this is because pour-point depressants are the least stable of all of the multiviscosity additives.
To the best of my knowledge, no one in the automobile industry ever asked for a 10W-40 motor oil. As I recall this was the idea of oil refiners.
The process of producing any particular blend of motor oil requires a very significant amount of refinery process setup. The manufacturing site, in order to produce another blend or weight, must change over this process and this is the typical way most refiners operate. This represents a fair amount of down time during this change over, which means no product is being made. Some refiners came up with the idea to make one blend that would meet all of the specifications of most automobile manufacturers and keep that blend in production all year (no change over production loss).
It's an air cooled V-twin cruiser, so no high speed racing. For that matter, not even an occasional burn-out. I mainly "cruise" on my bike, probably half in town and half on slow country roads. Every once in a great while I might go on a three or four hour ride. I know the in-town stuff is the worst on an air-cooled engine, that's why I went on the heavy side of the recommended range. The manual also calls for 20w-40, but only up to 90-100 degrees. Both go down to 40 degrees.
The only engine mods I have done that might affect operating temps would be a high flow intake, jetting kit and a very low restriction exhaust system. I haven't altered the factory ignition curve or raised the compression ratio.
The tranny has a wet clutch, as do most bikes, so I use the "factory" oil. I figure no more than what I spend on motorcycle oil each year it might keep my dealer from looking at a problem and saying, "Well you've been using the wrong oil, sorry, we can't help you." The factory oils supposedly have some stabilizers in them to help survive the stresses of the clutch. Since cars do not have wet clutches, I assume their oil doesn't have these stabilizers. I have buddies who use high quality oil made for cars and they seem to have good luck.
Jim, the point I was trying to make, is that air cooled engines come to "heat" very quickly as well as cool down rapidly. The liquid cooling (I'm not saying that one is better than the other) offers more temperature stability. In construction equipment manufacturing, the company for whom I worked started using Deutz air cooled diesel engines. The end users for the most part didn't really like them. They did have problems as these units often worked in dusty job conditions and this did not help. The manufacturer went back to John Deere and then Cummins. The Cummins was in my opinion the best choice for many reasons. A little off the subject but air cooled engines require that steady air flow to ensure cooling. This translates to cruising along.
I've never been a fan of an air-cooled diesel, no pun intended. Diesels make sooo much heat that it seems almost impossible to get enough air flow over the cylinders. Add dust and dirt to coat the fins, well you know first hand.
For a non-mechanic such as myself your dissertation on oil was an excellent primer. I use only 5w-30 in my 4.7 and no synthetics. I change the oil every 5,000 miles.
I use synthetics in my jet ski as manual suggests.
I use 5w-30 in my wife's Lexus according to the manual and no synthetics.
I use 10w-40 in my 4x4 ATV as manual suggests. I have never wavered from manufacture's specs.
My question is why after 3,000 miles my oil is black as coal, and after 5,000 miles my wife's Lexus SUV is as clear as the day I last changed it. I use the same 5-w oil in both vechicles. Am I comparing apples to oranges?
Do you have a preference for a particular brand of oil?
The "blackness" of an motoroil is not an indication of its condition in any way. (other than its color)This "blackness" is more an indication of the carbon in the oil.
In a diesel engine, freshly-changed motoroil is "black as coal" in about 5 minutes of running.
The engine in your wifes Lexus is FAR more refined than any engine that DamlierChrysler has ever put into production. I guess you are correct when you ask... "Am I comparing apples to oranges?"
If you truly wish to learn more about engine oil, check out this link.
Motor oil changes color for a number of reasons. It can change color from the pressence of contamination, or as a result of the chemical formula itself.
If we assume that you're using the same manufacturer's oil in all of your internal combustion engines, then here's my picks for the following conditions that may exist:
*different (more severe) driving conditions
*short trip driving
*engine not at operating temperature
*oil change frequency too long for operating conditions
*engine-born contaminants from wear or materials selection
To a certain degree I agree with the comment about the Lexus, although "refinement" is too broad a term. Toyota probably uses a grade of block metal that contains less gray iron. This is usually the area that produces most metal contaminants in engine oil. However, after a sufficient amount of miles when the cylinder walls become nicely glazed, this should fade considerably.
For some engines this may actually be normal to a degree. I've only had a few engines that seemed to have the oil stay "clean" for a while. I had a 1983 Dodge Charger with a 2.2 that did and my current 1993 Sentra does. Out 1999 Toyota with the 3.0 motor, however, is just the opposite. That one gets black real quick and I've noticed some sludging in the valve cover already. If you're concerned about the vehicle that seems to get black quickly, have an independent oil analysis done. This should uncover the cause.
Because of a Consumer's Reports article some years ago, I have stayed with Castrol in 10W-30 and Penzoil in 5W-30. However, things can change. I just don't have any emphirical evidence that tells me something different at the moment.
I change oil on our two cars at 3000 miles. Sometimes the Nissan goes a little bit more, but never over 4000. Our Chevy van gets a change ever 3 months, basically because it only goes about 400 miles during that period. In my power equipment I have used 10W-30 in the lawn tractor (Kohler) and lawn mower (Tecumseh), 5W-30 in the snow blower (Tecumseh). However, in recent years I've switched to 5W-30 in all the power equipment, more because I just felt like stocking just one blend. I now also use 5W-30 in my Kawasaki Prairie 300 ATV, although I am now using a synthetic. The ATV sees more fall and winter use anyway.
Dustyk&bpeebles Thanks to you both for the insights. The link bpeebles provided was fascinating and should be read by everyone. A MUST read for all of you who have switched to synthetics or thinking about it. Good info guys, we once again thank and appreciate your time devoted to this site.
In the last couple of days my 2001 Quad with 14,000 miles on it, has been taking a long time to start. It cranks about 15 seconds before it catches. I put new plugs in this weekend but nothing has changed. Anyone else have a similar problem? and what was the fix. I hate going to the dealer only to have them say they found nothing wrong.
Provided everything in the electrical arena is functioning properly, sounds like a fuel delivery problem. 15 seconds sounds about right for the fuel pump to purge all of the air out of the lines and injectors. When does it do it? All of the time everytime, or only after it sits overnight?
It usually happen after sitting in the commuter lot all day, or overnight when I go to start it in the morning. I was thinking of trying next time to turn the key on a second or two to let the fuel pump come up to pressure to see if that makes a difference.
I would definitely try that, maybe even cycle the key a couple of times. The fuel pump will only run for a few seconds before shutting off, it has to have a signal from the computer telling it the motor is running. You should be able to hear it shut off. In any event, I'd say take it to the dealer the evening before your appointment so it can sit overnight, and maybe the tech will be able to reproduce the problem. That way you won't get the famous; "We couldn't get it to do anything. There's nothing wrong with it." statement.
First an update on the fix I had a while back. Those who know the problems I had in the past ( mostly brakes ) here's what I think. Went on a road trip for the first time since I had my fix. I must say all was well. My truck got 19 mpg driving between 75 and 85 mph. It was very smooth ride, no pulling to the right or left everything worked great. I love it. I still think Dodge has some quality problems and for the most part it has to be with the dealers and their service dept. From all the post I have read and the problems people have had, the biggest one is trying to get the dealer to fix it. I have to drive out of town to a dealer who knows what they are doing and is not afraid to fix something under warranty and who knows how to do the job right the first time. When this dealer ( Jack of Diamonds ) had my truck, they went over everything and fixed it right and now I love my truck. I'm very happy with the results. Now for the questions; Has anyone had a problem with their AC? Haven't gone back to the dealer yet. When my AC is on low fan the the snow flake light turns off an on and will not cool. Any other fan setting it cools and light stays on. Is that normal or should I go to the shop? When I get 30K on my truck I think the book said to change auto trans fluid and filter. Can I do this myself. I was told that the bands need adjusting. What bands? Is it just re- torking the bolts are what. If its running fine, can I just do the filter and fluid change are should I spend 3 times the money and let the shop do it. I just don't like shops working on my truck, even if they do know what they are doing. If there are really know adjustments to be made then why go to shop. What should I do. Thanks
I've never had the bands adjusted as part of routine maintenance, but then again, I'm no expert on auto trannies either. The fluid and filter should be a simple procedure: 1. Loosen the pan bolts slightly. 2. Break the gasket seal. 3. Loosen one side or the other to allow the pan to tilt to drain the fluid out. 4. Curse as fluid, hopefully not hot, runs down your arms and onto the driveway/garage floor. 5. Remove pan. 6. Remove old filter, making sure the o-ring/gasket comes with it, if there is one. 7. Install the new filter. 8. Install pan and new gasket. 9. Put in new fluid.
You might want to drain the torque convertor as well, however if the convertor does not have a drain plug, that could be a PITA. My wife's car has a rubber plug in the bottom of the bellhousing to access the drain plug. If yours has one too, just take it out, use a large socket and breaker bar on the crank pulley to rotate the engine until the drain plug comes around.
Do you drive a Chevrolet Suburban or the Dodge Dakota Quad Cab? If so, and if you're willing to talk with a major daily newspaper about your truck, please send your vehicle info and contact info including phone number by noon Eastern on Tuesday, July 2 to jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I bought a 2002 Dodge Dakota 4x4, 4.7L engine, V8, last Fall. At about 500 miles I noticed a miss when I stopped at a stoplight. When I have the AC on and stopped at a stoplight it shudders and stumbles. I take it out of Drive, put it in Neutral and the miss subsides a little. The truck runs fine when it's on the open road or above an idle, but when Idling it misses. I took it to the dealership and they put a co-pilot on it and I drove it for a week. The copilot found that the computer was not "telling" the engine to mix the air and fuel properly. The dealership admitted that this was a problem. The say they cannot fix it. They say that Dodge needs to send them a Flash Code to update the computer, but Dodge doesn't have one! I feel "Took". I have a brand new truck that MISSES. I've had it in four times to try and fix this and I am pursuing the Lemon Law route. Has anyone else noticed rough idling? The dealership just told me today and this is a "known" problem.
I brought my 02 QC in at 9k miles for the same sound,(I described it to them as the clicking sound the lifters make if you run your car out of oil - only there's plenty of oil) plus some other things. They found that the lifter bores had been machined too small at the dealer and replaced the lower engine block. I hope that makes sense to you, as it means next to nothing to me. BTW, that replacement engine block went out with a bad #4 piston the day after I picked it up from the dealer. Back it went.
First, you go right back to the dealer and tell them get that update from DC (yes, one DOES exist cause I had the same issue as you pretty much). Tell them get off their dead [non-permissible content removed] and fix the truck. Then call the 800 no-customer--service number and raise hell there. Write a letter also to DC notifying them of the appaling lack of followup on the part of the dealer. Threaten a call to the state attorney general office. It does work, believe me. Ariens Co, found that out with my father. He got a new mower from them after the wheels fell off his and tipped over with him on it.
If need be, I can get to alldata (bear in mind I owned a 2000 dak but same engine) and print the TSB for you. Then you can take that to your lazy-no account service manager and shove it in his face and say here, now you have the explicit instructions, now FIX IT!
Finally, TUMS or Maalox is appropriate in this case.
Mopar67, Thanks for your reply and advice. Any data, TSB, etc., that you can get for me would be great. You can email me privately at mmartin622@yahoo.com. Thanks again.
I've had the same problem ( issues ) that mmartin has had. When I turn on the ac I also have a rough idle. Feels like a miss. Once above the idle it smooths out. It runs fine but I don't like the rough idle when ac is on. Only does it when ac is on. I have asked for this to be fixed in the past and was told that is the way they run. I have learned to live with it but if its not right and an update exists, then I should seek the fix before my warranty goes out. If you have any up date info on this I would appreciate reading it. Maybe D/C is just not informing the dealers of updates, fixes etc because of expenses. I have the 4.7 auto trans, 2002
I was in my BIL's '00 Dakota last night. I noticed that same miss at idle. I asked him if he had said anything about and he told me exactly what I knew he would say, "I took it to the dealer and they told me the V-6 just ran that way." I told him about this discussion. If it is not too much trouble, I was wondering if there was anyway you could post the TSB number. He would greatly appreciate it.
Comments
I'm pretty sure it's a "learning" problem as you say - Would dealer recalibration only be limited to shift points? I wouldn't want to affect idle, etc.
Anyway, on to the real issue. Every few times (once or twice a week) I start the truck when it's cold, the engine is noticeably louder. I generally wait a good 30 seconds or so before putting it into gear and then driving off. When I put it in Drive (w/ overdrive - haven't tried it w/ overdrive off), I generally have to drive 5-6 blocks below 20 mph before the engine goes back to normal (then I'm good to go). The tach reads the same as when the problem doesn't occur; Reads between 1500 and 200 RPMs when driving below 20 mph. It almost sounds as if the choke is open and then shuts after driving it these 5-6 blocks.
Is this common with the Dakota and the 4.7 liter engine? Has anyone else had this problem and what needs to be done to resolve it? I haven't talked to the dealership where I bought the truck as I wanted to get the inside scoop first. Any help and/or recommendations (recalls?) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...
The 4.7 is fuel injected. There is no choke as fuel delivery is computer controlled.
aware of all the brake problems among other malfunctions I have had, are certain my engine is going to blow some morning at 6am.
It is not a "recalibration" that a dealer would do... it is more a re-programming of one or both of the computers based on any new software that has become available.... sorta like upgrading from win95 to winXT on your home computer.
If you wish to try to "reset" the computers yourself... Just disconnect the (-) termenal on your battery for about 20 minutes. (this will also reset your radiostations and alarm settings too.)
Forward to 8 months later. I was driving down the highway and lost all oil pressure. I had just done an oil change 1000 miles earlier. I pulled into a quickie oil change palce and the guy told me it was probably a bad sending unit. I believed him (foolishly) and went on down the road until the engine abruptly quit. I had to replace the engine. The engine looked like it had a thick tar coating inside it. The mechanic told me he has had other 3.9L Dakota engines in with the same problem that he new the owners were good about oil changes. He hinted that it might be a design problem and I was wondering if there were others that have experienced this. I continue to think that my one experience with the extended oil change wouldn't cause this kind of trouble a year later with no problems in between, would it?
Dan
Oil sludging in a in an otherwise well designed and correctly manufactured engine is caused by the following major contributors:
*Extended oil changes
*Short trip driving
*Low engine operating temperature
*10W-40 motor oils
*Incorrectly operating crankcase ventilation system
A combination of any of the above can accelerate oil sludging problems very, very rapidly, especially in colder or damp climates where moisture builds up inside the engine. This is also true in cases of where a small headgasket leak is present.
Dusty
Any motor oil, particularly dino oil, will begin to separate out various components at high operationing/stress situations. IN this case, a 10w40 oil will have more index improvers than say a 10w30 or even a 5w30 oil. These additive packages leave behind residue and separate out from the base stock to which they are added. The result? Deposits left behind.
Finally, tone it down a bit. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with postings here but getting in a persons face the way you did is not what we're all here for. Try other forums if that is your style. Who knows, perhaps dustyk has a degree in chemical engineering? WOuld you call him ignorant then?
Mikes getting better and thanks to all who have asked about him.
Depending on the static viscosity of the base stock, various proportions of PPDs and VIIs are used to produce the design viscosity range. There is a chemical counter reaction between PPDs and VIIs since chemically they are trying to achieve completely different results in the same oil formula. Because of chemical counter reaction there is a practical limit to the amounts of PPDs and VIIs that can be used in any blend.
10W-40 motor oils represent that limit due to the chemical stretching of the oil formulation. This makes 10W-40 motor oils somewhat unstable and certain operating conditions trigger or exacerbate this instability.
For example, one manufacturer may use a certain ratio of PPDs versus VIIs to achieve the 10W-40 viscosity range, depending on their base stock. After time in the high temperature, pumping action environment of an engine, some of the chemicals used as PPDs and VIIs begin to return to their natural non-blended state. This may leave the oil with more active VII or PPD which can produce "thining" or "thickening" of the oil as more miles are put on (most 10W-40 blends will usually thicken).
Along with other chemicals (catalysts, anti-rust additives, anti-foaming agents, etc.) the once multiviscosity motor oil becomes base stock with separate chemicals that maintain their own independent chemical properties. These are often not conducive to the rather harsh internal environment of a piston engine, and the biggest problem for which 10W-40 blends are known, is the tendency to hold moisture and unsuspend acids after it has destabilized, among other unsavory chemical characteristics.
The destabilizing point at which a 10W-40 (or any multiviscosity oil) becomes a sludge accellerant is determined by a number of factors, predominantly associated with the number of heating and cooling cycles of the oil and/or high speed operation. In most cases the service limit will be shorter with 10W-40 than with other blends. Here in the Northeast sludging problems associated with 10W-40 are more acute because of the high humidity, colder climate that produces a high moisture environment in a piston engine.
For the reasons stated above a number of auto manufacturers do not recommend the use of 10W-40 oils in their engines. Our 1999 Toyota and my 1993 Nissan are just two of them.
Dusty
Graduate General Motors Institute (remote)
Tonawanda Engine School, Buffalo, New York
Certified Fuel Delivery & Induction Technician
Certified Engine Technician
Associate Field Representative - Buick Motor Division (1966-67)
SITYS
What do you think about the new Mobil 1 Supersyn? and What motor oil would you recommend for a dodge 4.7?
Blue
You honor me with your question, sir, but I'm not in possesion of any emperical information that may help you. I'll be glad to offer some advice.
I believe that most engine designers do the best job they can given the tooling, materials, and cost parameters mandated by the cost control (read: cost containment) types and the unenlightened "bottom-line" mentality guys now prevalent in US industry.
Despite the often common belief, I do believe that (most, anyway) engine designers know what they're doing and I think they specify the best lubricant for their design. In addition, engineers have better mold and tooling techniques available to them, better materials, and better lubricants. A 1955 Buick with 100,000 miles on one rebuild was considered exceptionally high mileage not that many years ago. Today, many engine designs easily permit accumulated mileage of 100,000 or more without major service. This is partly due to technological advances in lubricants. The average multi-vis motor oil is a much better quality product than even 10 years ago.
My general recommendation is to follow the manufacturer's guidelines and you should realize excellent service and reliability.
I would also recommend using the recommended viscosity range for temperature. There is a "bigger is better" or "more is better" mentality common to automobile types, and this is one area that that philosophy can get you into trouble. I know guys who run 20-50, or straight 40 or 50 weight oils in their cars. One must realize that merely increasing the film strength of the oil is not the whole story. Correct lubrication also depends on supplying enough cool oil to friction-potential parts. As you increase viscosity you are also reducing the flow of oil to various critical areas. You may not necessarily be supplying that much greater film strength, but also seriously reducing flow that could lead to intermittent metal-to-metal contact and resultant damage from using a higher viscosity oil.
Synthetic oils generally offer enhanced lubrication qualities, but here it must be asked if they are worth it. This is not intended to be a contentional question, but there is a practical limit to realizing whatever benefit a synthetic oil provides. Some synthetics start out with better friction and shear numbers, for example, but may quickly erode to non-synthetic numbers in a low number of driven miles.
Try to get the oil mnufacturer's Material Data Sheet for their product and compare the specifications. You might be surprised at how some of them compare with conventional oils. For example, many conventional oils now attain the same low-friction "energy conserving" rating as synthetics.
Another problem is contamination. Despite synthetics generally being a better motor oil overall they will accumulate contamination at the same rate as conventional motor oils. Dirty oil is dirty oil and this, in my opinion, offsets any benefit from trying to use synthetics as an extended frequency item.
Where synthetics do offer some enhanced performance is usually at the extreme ends of the engine operating temperature range -- low temperature flow and high temperature viscosity integrity. However, as I mentioned earlier there is some question about the longevity of this advantage in actual use. But there isn't a price on piece of mind, either. If so inclined to have an edge, synthetics will generally provide them.
I would not recommend using a synthetic motor oil in an engine until it is completely broken in. The increased low-friction advantages of some synthetics can extend the break-in period of an engine.
As far as the new 4.7 Chrysler engine goes, I'm hearing that it's an exceptional engine, not unlike most Chrysler engines. Chrysler has a long history of solid design, albeit conservative, especially in engines. Even the 2.2 and 2.5 four-cylinder FWD engines did no worse than their American competitors, and probably better in most respects overall. Chrysler V8s are either exceptional or awesome, the Slant-Six is legendary.
Best regards,
Dusty
But I can wholeheartedly agree, despite the issues I had, Chrysler does (and did) build absolutely solid engines. I've run their 4 bangers, sixes (the slant six) v-8's of every permutation save for the 340 and the 426 hemi. ANd I ran them hard. Never did I break one. Rotors yes, water pumps of course, broke several ujoints as a teenager but never the rear axle. SMoked the tires on my Cordoba almost down to the rims yet that 360 (with mods of course) never sqawked once. The slant six took more abuse than I'm sure Chrysler planned and it was running when I got rid of it. The 2.2/2.5 were a bit rough but again, totally solid designs.
My fav? I'd have to go with the 318 since I had so many, but the 4.7 comes darn close. Had I kept the Dak, I am certain it would have been at the top of my list.
Now if only they can get their xmissions back to the old torqueflight days and oh....those ROTORS...........but I digress.
Thanks dustyK for helping me go down memory lane tonight! It was fun.
Bookitty
To the best of my knowledge, no one in the automobile industry ever asked for a 10W-40 motor oil. As I recall this was the idea of oil refiners.
The process of producing any particular blend of motor oil requires a very significant amount of refinery process setup. The manufacturing site, in order to produce another blend or weight, must change over this process and this is the typical way most refiners operate. This represents a fair amount of down time during this change over, which means no product is being made. Some refiners came up with the idea to make one blend that would meet all of the specifications of most automobile manufacturers and keep that blend in production all year (no change over production loss).
Regards,
Dusty
The only engine mods I have done that might affect operating temps would be a high flow intake, jetting kit and a very low restriction exhaust system. I haven't altered the factory ignition curve or raised the compression ratio.
The tranny has a wet clutch, as do most bikes, so I use the "factory" oil. I figure no more than what I spend on motorcycle oil each year it might keep my dealer from looking at a problem and saying, "Well you've been using the wrong oil, sorry, we can't help you." The factory oils supposedly have some stabilizers in them to help survive the stresses of the clutch. Since cars do not have wet clutches, I assume their oil doesn't have these stabilizers. I have buddies who use high quality oil made for cars and they seem to have good luck.
Bookitty
I use only 5w-30 in my 4.7 and no synthetics.
I change the oil every 5,000 miles.
I use synthetics in my jet ski as manual suggests.
I use 5w-30 in my wife's Lexus according to the manual and no synthetics.
I use 10w-40 in my 4x4 ATV as manual suggests. I have never wavered from manufacture's specs.
My question is why after 3,000 miles my oil is black as coal, and after 5,000 miles my wife's Lexus SUV is as clear as the day I last changed it. I use the same 5-w oil in both vechicles. Am I comparing apples to oranges?
Do you have a preference for a particular brand of oil?
In a diesel engine, freshly-changed motoroil is "black as coal" in about 5 minutes of running.
The engine in your wifes Lexus is FAR more refined than any engine that DamlierChrysler has ever put into production. I guess you are correct when you ask... "Am I comparing apples to oranges?"
If you truly wish to learn more about engine oil, check out this link.
If we assume that you're using the same manufacturer's oil in all of your internal combustion engines, then here's my picks for the following conditions that may exist:
*different (more severe) driving conditions
*short trip driving
*engine not at operating temperature
*oil change frequency too long for operating conditions
*engine-born contaminants from wear or materials selection
*some incorrect mechanical condition (ie: crankcase ventilation)
To a certain degree I agree with the comment about the Lexus, although "refinement" is too broad a term. Toyota probably uses a grade of block metal that contains less gray iron. This is usually the area that produces most metal contaminants in engine oil. However, after a sufficient amount of miles when the cylinder walls become nicely glazed, this should fade considerably.
For some engines this may actually be normal to a degree. I've only had a few engines that seemed to have the oil stay "clean" for a while. I had a 1983 Dodge Charger with a 2.2 that did and my current 1993 Sentra does. Out 1999 Toyota with the 3.0 motor, however, is just the opposite. That one gets black real quick and I've noticed some sludging in the valve cover already. If you're concerned about the vehicle that seems to get black quickly, have an independent oil analysis done. This should uncover the cause.
Because of a Consumer's Reports article some years ago, I have stayed with Castrol in 10W-30 and Penzoil in 5W-30. However, things can change. I just don't have any emphirical evidence that tells me something different at the moment.
I change oil on our two cars at 3000 miles. Sometimes the Nissan goes a little bit more, but never over 4000. Our Chevy van gets a change ever 3 months, basically because it only goes about 400 miles during that period. In my power equipment I have used 10W-30 in the lawn tractor (Kohler) and lawn mower (Tecumseh), 5W-30 in the snow blower (Tecumseh). However, in recent years I've switched to 5W-30 in all the power equipment, more because I just felt like stocking just one blend. I now also use 5W-30 in my Kawasaki Prairie 300 ATV, although I am now using a synthetic. The ATV sees more fall and winter use anyway.
Best regards,
Dusty
Thanks to you both for the insights. The link bpeebles provided was fascinating and should be read by everyone. A MUST read for all of you who have switched to synthetics or thinking about it.
Good info guys, we once again thank and appreciate your time devoted to this site.
Now for the questions;
Has anyone had a problem with their AC? Haven't gone back to the dealer yet. When my AC is on low fan the the snow flake light turns off an on and will not cool. Any other fan setting it cools and light stays on. Is that normal or should I go to the shop?
When I get 30K on my truck I think the book said to change auto trans fluid and filter. Can I do this myself. I was told that the bands need adjusting. What bands? Is it just re- torking the bolts are what. If its running fine, can I just do the filter and fluid change are should I spend 3 times the money and let the shop do it. I just don't like shops working on my truck, even if they do know what they are doing. If there are really know adjustments to be made then why go to shop. What should I do. Thanks
1. Loosen the pan bolts slightly.
2. Break the gasket seal.
3. Loosen one side or the other to allow the pan to tilt to drain the fluid out.
4. Curse as fluid, hopefully not hot, runs down your arms and onto the driveway/garage floor.
5. Remove pan.
6. Remove old filter, making sure the o-ring/gasket comes with it, if there is one.
7. Install the new filter.
8. Install pan and new gasket.
9. Put in new fluid.
You might want to drain the torque convertor as well, however if the convertor does not have a drain plug, that could be a PITA. My wife's car has a rubber plug in the bottom of the bellhousing to access the drain plug. If yours has one too, just take it out, use a large socket and breaker bar on the crank pulley to rotate the engine until the drain plug comes around.
BTW; How's Mike's arm?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
If need be, I can get to alldata (bear in mind I owned a 2000 dak but same engine) and print the TSB for you. Then you can take that to your lazy-no account service manager and shove it in his face and say here, now you have the explicit instructions, now FIX IT!
Finally, TUMS or Maalox is appropriate in this case.
Mopar could You also send me a copy of the TSB. I would like to read it. Thanks. dano@internetwork.net