Dodge Journey Crossover

albook

The old Pacifica wasn't a big hit, but in this new age of the CUV, can Chrysler finally come up with a legitament MDX fighter? Can Dodge (the true bearer of the "JX49" codename) enter the midsize arena with an SUV that's game enough to beat the well established Pilot/ Highlander, as well as the new hit GMC Acadia/Saturn Oulook, and Ford Edge? What do you think?

albook

Saw some sketches on what this might look like, but couln't figure out how to put them on this sight. this could be the major hit that CHrysler needs- or it could be like the new Sebring. Then again, I think Sebring should sell well.

tshoe

With the new pictures that just came out the new SUV doesn't look to bad. Kind of wimpy/wagon/mini-van style though. I would prefer a little tougher and larger, more in-between the Nitro and Durango. V-6 is ok but it has to be able to tow 3000 pounds with AWD. Does anybody know the specs on interior room? Is the back seat usable?

Kirstie_H

Huh, got a link to the pics? I'm sure others would love to see!

albook

Chrysler better make their version one worthy of competition with the likes of Volvo XC90/ MDX. If it's badg engineering, they have truely messed up. THis is the Pacifica replacement, too.

gasman1

It was on two sites today. The better site (more pics and more information) is: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2007/112_0708_2009_dodge_journey

I think they have a winner if they do three things:

1. Get the MPG up. There's absolutely no reason a vehicle this size can survive with the MPG they mention (19/25 on the 4 CYL and 17/23 or 16/22 on the V-6s).

2. Keep the price down to make it COMPETITVE.

3. Make sure the interior has a quality feel. Cheap boxes may sell to some, but not me.

qbrozen

i see another failure here. Underpowered and underefficient. I mean, how is it they have cut 15 hp from the Pacifica and get the same mileage? What could possibly be the appeal here that was not present in the Pacifica?

We have a Pac and are quite pleased with it. I'm not sure why it was such a supposed flop. We find it much more luxurious than our Pilot was, and for less $$ after incentives. Where it lacks is refinement in the powertrain and on efficiency. Our Pilot got a couple of miles more per gallon. I felt if the Pac had a 5-speed tranny, like the Pilot, it may have been a close match. Instead, Chrysler responded by dropping in a 6-speed auto, which was a good idea, but then they put in a less efficient 4 liter with it, thereby negating any efficiency advantage the new tranny may have provided. They just don't see to get it.

albook

Underpowered and underefficient. I mean, how is it they have cut 15 hp from the Pacifica and get the same mileage? What could possibly be the appeal here that was not present in the Pacifica?

Well, for starters, it's not a Pacifica.
THis is a huge step up from the Pacifica already. The Pacifica is a minivan (not what buyers want), and the interior and space and quality is a big let down.

qbrozen

Is any of that based in fact? I'll answer for you. No. Well, OK, maybe 1 point ... read on.

This thing looks more like a minivan to me than the Pac. Neither, however, are minivans, thanks to no sliding door.

The interior of the Pac is far from a letdown. I have yet to have someone in ours who did NOT comment how luxurious it is. Have you driven the competition? We liked our Pilot, but it comes nowhere near the refinement of the Pac on interior comfort. I agree that the interior dimensions in terms of cabin height leave a bit to be desired. Its not as open and airy as many mid-sized utes. And maybe that was its downfall.

Quality? Well, its a matter of personal experience. We've had no problems to speak of. I'd say its been on par with our Pilot so far. Both had 1 electrical glitch each. And I believe 1 recall each.

albook

The interior of the Pac is far from a letdown. I have yet to have someone in ours who did NOT comment how luxurious it is. Have you driven the competition? We liked our Pilot, but it comes nowhere near the refinement of the Pac on interior comfort. I agree that the interior dimensions in terms of cabin height leave a bit to be desired. Its not as open and airy as many mid-sized utes. And maybe that was its downfall.

Is any of that based in fact? Let me help you out- NO. The interior fails to meet todays standards (I'll giv ethat one a break- it is 5 years old) Both the interior and exterior are dated. Comfort is terrible. Chrysler should just discontinue it because they won't be selling very many more. Any one looking at this versus the Buick Enclave will turn their noses up after just sitting inisde this!

We can gripe all we want about if it was a failure or not, but there is one factor that determines it-sales. Thankyou!!!
That's why this new crossover has to be what the Pacifica wasn't- competitive.

nextmoon

Here they are: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/SUVs_Wagons/2009_Dodge_Journey_P- review.S181.A13279.html

qbrozen

Is any of that based in fact?

Ummmm... yes. Let me help you out by restating one important fact in my post: I have yet to have someone in ours who did NOT comment how luxurious it is.

Comfort is terrible.

That's obviously going to vary by person. As I said, we find it more comfortable than our Pilot. And after a 180 mile roundtrip in my Accord 2 days ago, I can tell you the Pac is much more comfortable than that, too (yeah, i know, not the same class, but those are the 2 commuter cars in my driveway right now, so its my comparison).

I'm not sure why you think this one is going to blow the Pac out of the water when we haven't even seen it yet. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't be so judgemental about it either, but so far, based on power, efficiency, and appearance, its not winning me over from my Pac.

Any one looking at this versus the Buick Enclave will turn their noses up after just sitting inisde this!

An Enclave equipped similarly to my Pac would cost me about $10k more than I paid. So, yeah, I sure HOPE it would be a step up!

twain

Chrysler badly needs some fuel efficient engines. We need diesels... bad. Put a 30-35mpg diesel in this thing and it might be a winner. As is, it's another loser.

Eagerly awaiting the Tiguan and its 2.0 TDI.

davert

The Dodge Journey will almost certainly get a real world-class powertrain - by 2012. Unfortunately the new automated-manual transmissions with dual clutches won't be available until 2009, after the Journey starts up, and it'll go into minivans first or so we're told. Likewise the brand new, world class engines, the Phoenix engines, will start up around 2009. And then there are the reputed Chrysler diesels under way - you heard me! - but who knows when those will be made, if at all?

More 2009 Dodge Journey info and of course Espanol - el crossover Dodge Journey 2009.

bobw3

The interior doesn't look as spacious as my '05 Ford Freestyle, expecially in the 3rd and behind the 3rd cargo space, although I do like the innovations just as the flip seat storage area. The Journey also has the above dash storage area like my Freestyle.

microrepair

The Journey is now on the Dodge website, although not too much real detail like pricing or MPG ratings, etc. And no conversation here since October?

Journey's features seem to be pretty good; optional 7 seats, optional rear view camera, three engine choices, standard ESP, etc.. Any idea when it will hit the showrooms?

albook

The Journey is now on the Dodge website, although not too much real detail like pricing or MPG ratings, etc. And no conversation here since October?

I'll tell you what happened. I guess interest levels are low. 16 messages? This forum's been up since I think January of last year. Maybe December '06!

I think people are turned off that it seems a bit too samll to compete with the likes of Highlander and Pilot.

albook

i see another failure here. Underpowered and underefficient. I mean, how is it they have cut 15 hp from the Pacifica and get the same mileage? What could possibly be the appeal here that was not present in the Pacifica?

This may lose hp, but no doubt it's quicker han the Pacific- which has wieght issues. Probably the same size inside- despite being a foot shorter (I'm guestimating).

albook

The interior doesn't look as spacious as my '05 Ford Freestyle, expecially in the 3rd and behind the 3rd cargo space, although I do like the innovations just as the flip seat storage area. The Journey also has the above dash storage area like my Freestyle.

Of course not. If the roomers are true, this will probably be a foot shorter- so yes, the interior is smaller.

qbrozen

I doubt it will cut much weight from the Pacifica. As a matter of fact, given the mileage, I wouldn't be surprised if its heavier than the Pac. We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure.

albook

I doubt it will cut much weight from the Pacifica. As a matter of fact, given the mileage, I wouldn't be surprised if its heavier than the Pac. We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure.

No way! I'm no LLC exec, but I know from Magazines and the internet and autoshows that's it's smaller than the Pac. And how do we know about mileage already?

qbrozen

Chrysler gave their estimates. Its been posted here and discussed.

And I'm sure you know smaller doesn't mean squat. A 3-series is smaller than my Accord, yet weighs hundreds of pounds more.

albook

I still refue to believe the Journey isheavier than the Pacifica- which at something like 4600-4800 lbs is one of the heaviest CUVs!

So from what I've heard the Chrysler version of Journey is cancelled.

albook

Doge Journey = only 3800-4000lbs. But mileage is prettybad for a vehicle of that size.

qbrozen

maybe they'll revise their mileage estimates? Maybe the EPA will find differently when they test it? I dunno. If it really gets the initially projected mileage and it weighs under 2 tons, they've done something horribly wrong in development. Ugh!

albook

maybe they'll revise their mileage estimates? Maybe the EPA will find differently when they test it? I dunno. If it really gets the initially projected mileage and it weighs under 2 tons, they've done something horribly wrong in development. Ugh!

The Honda Pilto is about the smae size and gets about that mileage.

albook

I did finally sit in the Journey at the autoshow, and while this is the vehicle chrysler needs right now, My problem is that it doesn't seem to stack up well against others. If I had a choice between this and the Hyundai Veracruz, I'd take the Hyundai in a second. I even think the Highlander is nicer (and I strongly dislike the Highlander). The only reason I wouldn't buy the Highlander over this is that the Highlander doesn't offer a split third row seat.

The Journey did have some nice storage features, like the in floor and passenger seat storage.

qbrozen

The Honda Pilto is about the smae size and gets about that mileage.

Weight is the problem, not size (necessarily). If the Journey indeed comes in under 2 tons, that would be more than 500 lbs lighter than the Pilot. The Pilot also has 10 more horses. So, lighter and less power compared to the Pilot while achieving similar mileage would not be very competitive, IMHO. Hopefully it will trump it on mileage. We'll see.

albook

Really, gas mileage isn't the issue (and actually, the Journey is longer than the Pilot, but that's beside the point). The real issue is that I don't think the Journey can stay competitive enough with other offerings from other brands. I'm not totally sure I'd call this a step up from the Pacifica.

qbrozen

which matches my POV, too.
our Pacifica has 7 months left in the lease. I'm 99.9% sure the Journey will not be replacing it in our driveway.

albook

which matches my POV, too.
our Pacifica has 7 months left in the lease. I'm 99.9% sure the Journey will not be replacing it in our driveway.

If the interior was nicer, I think that 99.9 would drop quick. What are you considering now?

riler

WE HAVE A 2006 PACIFICA. WE TEST DROVE THE JOURNEY AND AS U STATE THIS NOT GREAT GAS MILAGE FOR THE SIZE BUT BELIEVE ME THE SIX IS NOT UNDER POWERED IT WOULD EASILY LEAVE OUR PACIFICA IN THE DUST

albook

AND AS U STATE THIS NOT GREAT GAS MILAGE FOR THE SIZE BUT BELIEVE ME THE SIX IS NOT UNDER POWERED IT WOULD EASILY LEAVE OUR PACIFICA IN THE DUST

Okay- we get the message. I would have guessed so, as the Journey is smaller and much lighter, and the Pacifica, though it has a larger engine is much heavier.

So Power shouldn't be the factor turning any Pacifica owners away from Dodge dealerships.

qbrozen

riler - That's good. But lack of power has never been much of a complaint for us concerning our Pac. I actually find it quite peppy off the line (which wasn't the case when it was new, but it has broken in quite nicely). It does lack a bit of highway passing power, but I partly blame the 4-spd tranny for that. Are you considering a Journey based on your test drive?

allbook - i believe the frontrunner right now to replace the Pac is a volvo V70. Although its likely we'll go used. We also like the FX35, but my wife is a bit concerned about the lack of cargo space.

albook

allbook - i believe the frontrunner right now to replace the Pac is a volvo V70. Although its likely we'll go used. We also like the FX35, but my wife is a bit concerned about the lack of cargo space.

So I see you like the wagon esq. of the Pac (considering you want to replace it with a wagon). I love the FX- it looks great but it does have small cargo numbers.
I thing it's sad that Chrysler couldn't take the time to properly remodel this vehicle. It had slow sales so they just chopped it. It had so much potential.

qbrozen

Interesting you should mention that because I was thinking about it the other day. Does anyone happen to have a link to the Pac's sales numbers these past few years?

I just see SO MANY on the road, it makes me wonder.

albook

I just see SO MANY on the road, it makes me wonder.

With so many incentives, they must have been nailed to the show floor!

qbrozen

or severely overproduced, which has historically been a common habit of 'mericun manufacturers.

snapcracklepop

WE HAVE A 2006 PACIFICA. WE TEST DROVE THE JOURNEY AND AS U STATE THIS NOT GREAT GAS MILAGE FOR THE SIZE BUT BELIEVE ME THE SIX IS NOT UNDER POWERED IT WOULD EASILY LEAVE OUR PACIFICA IN THE DUST

Riler - How was the journey test drive? I like the looks of the Journey and the interior features look amazing - how was everything in person? It gets 19 mpg city and 25 mpg highway which is pretty good for a crossover with third row seating! I'm impressed with it.

qbrozen

It gets 19 mpg city and 25 mpg highway which is pretty good for a crossover with third row seating!

But that's with the 173hp 4-cyl.
Not an engine I would personally want in a 3-row 2-ton vehicle. But to each his/her own.

albook

But that's with the 173hp 4-cyl.
Not an engine I would personally want in a 3-row 2-ton vehicle. But to each his/her own.

They say the 3.5 V6 has plenty of power, but the numbers aren't impressive. I bet that might turn some off.

qbrozen

So i just read a 1.5 page writeup in Automobile. I have to say, their comments make me think I should go check one out. While they are disappointed in the interior space (2nd row too tight and 3rd row completely useless), they do say it is the quietest sub-$30k car they have every driven and has fit and finish that surpasses any other Chrysler built. Seems like pretty decent praise.

one thing i did note is that they said the 3rd row is optional. This is something I was wondering when 1 poster commented on a 3 row SUV with a 4-cyl. I was curious if the 3rd row could even be had with the 4-cyl, but I could not find the answer on Dodge's website.

albook

I'll say it's a decent offereing. It' s what Chrysler needs right not. And the third row, from my experience at the Chicago auto show is just as comfortable as a Pacifica's. You're right about the second row, though. Actually, it's like they took the outside of the PAC and shrunk it lot, but no the inside that much. It's worth checking out.

qbrozen

I'll have to see if they are exaggerating about that 3rd row, then. Cause if you say it is the same as the Pac, we find it very useful. My wife sits back there comfortably. I certainly wouldn't say, as they did in their writeup of the Journey, "it is only inhabitable if you are a quadruple amputee." (i may be botching that slightly, but that was pretty much the jist)

albook

I'll have to see if they are exaggerating about that 3rd row, then. Cause if you say it is the same as the Pac, we find it very useful. My wife sits back there comfortably. I certainly wouldn't say, as they did in their writeup of the Journey, "it is only inhabitable if you are a quadruple amputee." (i may be botching that slightly, but that was pretty much the jist)

I'll admit, the Pacifica definitely had a more airy feel, but when the Pacifica 1st debuted in 2003, I testdrove one with the fam, and though the kids were smaller, it was still a tight fit in the third row. Compared to the competition, and accounting for the size, I would definitely say that the PAC's third row should be more comfortable. When you're 6+ ft tall, you probably get to say this a lot, but I wouldn't sit back there more than 5-10 minutes. Yet if I had a choice from the two, I'd choose the PAC. I wouldn't say in a heartbeat, but pretty close.

qbrozen

Well, I see Chrysler is off to a great start in advertising the Journey.

We just got a packet yesterday from corporate. The letter states something like "we know you have a bit of time left before the lease is up on your Pacifica, but we thought you'd like to see our lineup for consideration as a replacement vehicle." Well, the book is missing the Journey and still contains the Pacifica. Nice one, Chrysler!

mattandi

They haven't done much better with product training either. I stopped by a lot yesterday to get a closer look at the Journey and both the sales person and the sales manager I spoke with knew very little about these. The brochure I was given was not much more helpful. Seems a terminal case of "Let's put these out there and hope they sell."

Initial impression. Nice looking, fairly comfortable, quite practical, and price very competitive for the segment. Everything indicates to me that it should sell well, but Chrysler is going to have to do more to build awareness of this buggy. Segment is just too competitive to sit back.

rodut

Journey to replace the Pacifica ?!?! No way !

Journey is a extremely common vehicle. There are countless others out there, all of them with a better reliability brand reputation ! I can't see any reason to buy it.

Imagine you buy it, and then you meet some friends, colleagues, neighbors etc. They ask you why did you buy it. What do you answer ? Is it distinctive ? Is it reliable ? Is it ground level cheap ? Like the $2,500 Tata Nano ??? For fuel economy ? Chryslers are notorious for burning more gas than advertised. For AWD ? To burn more gas, and have more axles / transmission parts to break, and let you with the car dead in the middle of the road, like it happened to my 30,000 miles Pacifica last week ??? Do you like something about the Journey, you can't find in another decent reliability vehicle (among the other 10 or so, already on the market) ???

At least Pacifica was a distinctive vehicle. You would immediately spot it in a crowd. Low center of gravity, luxurious, a dream car. Only finance people (we know how smart they are, right ?) would take such an idiotic decision, to shut down the Pacifica and build this ... I don't even know how to call it, because really it's so tasteless that it's even difficult to criticize it. How can you criticize the wastebasket ??? You don't even bother doing it ...

albook

The Journey is a good move for Chrysler. It is one of the cheapest on the market, and I'dprobably buy one before I get a Highlander (Toyta was sleep during this redesign). Chryslers are notorious for buring more gas than advertised? So are Fords and Toyotas, and- pretty much everyone else.

The Pacifica had some shortcomings of its own, too. For such a large vehicle, the third row is a total disapointment. The Taurus X and GMC Acadia are slightly longer and have third row seats almost as good as minivans. Luxury? True, the PAC and Journey are like night and day there. But the one thing that killed the PAC was the ridiculous entry price.

I'd say if Chrysler would have introduced this instead of the Pacifica, it would have sold like hotcakes. And Chrysler wouldn't be in trouble right now.

rodut

Ohhh ... the Pacifica has way more shortcomings than the ones you mention. But cosmetic things don't really matter. Shorter or longer seats, more or less options, etc etc etc ... who cares ?!? People will care a lot more about a clunking front suspension no dealer can fix, transmission axles who break and let the car unable to move (in the freezing Canadian climate !!!), squeaking steering, etc ... why you don't read the Pacifica Repair and Maintenance posts ?

Chrysler is in trouble because they manufacture unreliable cars, end of the story.

My advice: jump directly to the Toyota, AT ANY PRICE, because the most valuable asset you own is your health. Not your money. You can always work and make money. But the health you damage when wasting your time in dealerships, or when looking at your beautiful car dead in the middle of the street ... well you can't fix back your damaged health you know ...

gristlejaw

I have been looking at the Journey as my next car. I will be coming from my beloved 10 year old Avenger ES which is near the end of its life. The Avenger has served me very well but now my life demands a bigger car. I detest SUV's but now with a family and a fix er up house i need the room. I have looked at the Caliber in the past but it was a little on the small side and the exterior look is kinda weird. I have been anticipating the Journey's arrival (being built on the new avenger frame adds a kindred spirit as well) ...so when they arrived at the local dealership I checked one out. As said above, the salesman was ignorant of the Journey's fine points. The exterior finish is very nice and not awkward like the caliber, I love the lay flat seating, i think it can fit a sheet of plywood without problems. The seats are a little thin but surprisingly comfortable, The SX has very nice base options as well. Overall, its a great buy and a front runner as my next vehicle. Weird thing...if you use dodge's bnuild your own the price on a SX with 3rd row seat and 3-zone A/C is only a hundred or so more than the standard 2 row with dual zone A/C. The only question remaining is how well (and long) this CUV works as designed under the new owners at Dodge.