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Curb Weights
Mercedes ML 350 4705 lbs.
Lexus RX 350 4090 AWD/3870 FWD
BMW X3 4012
It might be fair to compare a Lincoln MKX to any of those, but not a Ford Edge. Edge should be lighter than all those.
The Benz is particularly heavy but they did design the ML for heavier duties such as some off roading.
My question is: Should I extend my Sequoia lease for an extra 6 -12 months(and probably have to incur extra costs by replacing tires, performing maintenance etc.) or should I lease a replacement vehicle for the shortest term possible in order to buy me time to look at the Pilot? My guess is that it will be a direct competitor for the Acadia, is this correct?
Thanks for any advice or input!
For 6 months, I'd extend the current lease. A new transaction will surely cost you far more, even factoring in the gas costs.
A negative - a brand new Pilot won't come with any sort of discount, so you can expect to pay more for it.
Frankly I'd start looking at crossovers that are available now with discounts.
The Pilot weight includes equipment that is optional, or even unavailable (like third row seating) on the Edge. Thus, it is a bit porkier than it need be. Ford will likely find ways to lighten it up over time.
I just bought an Edge. Handles good. Engine is certainly as strong as I would like it to be. Gets better gas mileage on the highway than the window sticker indicated. Cheap on a lease. Maybe it weighs a little more than you would like it to because of the AWD system or safety canopy airbags? I'll trade a few pounds for some 5 star safety ratings any day. I think I just got myself all fired up to buy another one. Matter of fact, I kind of need to. A couple weeks after I bought it, my wife "discovered" it. I've been driving her crappy BMW 3 series ever since.
Think I'll wait a couple months and see if there will be some new colors for 08.
Kids fit just fine, even teens.
If they are right, I am guessing a fully loaded Flex with AWD may come out at around 5200lbs. That Duratec better be bored out to 4 liters and I would expect mileage in the lower teens.
I doubt very seriously that the Fairlane / Flex or whatever they will call it will weigh 5200 lbs or get fuel economy in the lower teens. Probably more like 4200-4300 lbs and about 24mpg highway, i would think.
The Taurus X which does have 3 row seating, has the same engine as the Flex will have, and is based on the larger 500 platform weighs under 4100 lbs and is rated at 24 hwy.
I think the ole 275 hp duratec should get the job done.
http://www.allpar.com/trucks/JC49.html
Maybe the weight difference comes with the top of the line SEL Plus model. This MotorTrend comparison lists the AWD model at 4500+ lbs, 400lbs heavier than any of its competitors.
Car & Driver also lists 4500+ lbs+ for the top-of-the line AWD model.
That panorama roof and all the welds in the supporting members probably weigh 300lbs alone.
Yes, the 2nd row slides fore/aft now.
Most of these CUVs have an indy rear. That's par for this class.
I disagree that it should be "gigantic", though, it's actually just 188" long, about a foot shorter than most the entries in the class, and a foot shorter than the Ody as well.
At that length, it's about the roomiest 3rd row you'll find, I believe. The Lambdas are roomier but that extra foot in length certainly should make it that way.
I did see where the Taurus X received a 5 star rating for the front, side and rear crash tests, but I have not been able to locate one for a test drive. With the fixed price, the Outlook does not appear to be a great value for the money.
Good Luck and keep posting.
I couldn't agree more. With comparable equipment, the Outlook is slightly more expensive than the Buick Enclave.
I test-drove one too, about two weeks ago. They let me spend the weekend with one (nice Saturn policy.) What Saturn has done to the steering wheel is almost unforgivable; it is not as thick as in other comparably priced vehicles and it is also where the cheapest materials went.
I would not agree with the cheap looking wood trim, but then again I dislike any kind of wood looking surface on a car, fake or real.
On my test model, there was a faint whirring noise coming from behind the dash. The salesperson sidestepped my question as to how many miles were already on that that car. Combined with the flimsy door for the object holder atop the dash, I did start to wonder about long-term quality.
The dealer can't discount the car, but the factory can.
In my area, there is a $1000 rebate on the Outlook until 9/4.
I'd say that by the way the Enclaves and Acadia's are going off the lots, that won't happen for a good while. The SAturns are moving quickly too. YOu can almost judge this by the time it took the GMT900 SUVs (Tahoe/ Suburban) to be discounted- like three months!
From what I've read, in 2009, the base price of the Outlook will drop to about 26g.
Well over the last week we have looked at alot of CUVs and here is my impression:
Lamdas - Own the Acadia and it is the roomiest of the bunch we looked at. Best Minivan replacement, but it is a long, wide and heavy vehicle. Handles much better than a minivan, but too big for my wife.
Veracruz - Very good looking vehicle. Not much room in the back, but 3rd row is a split bench so we can put 3 kids in 2nd row and 1 in the back with our haul from Costco. Limited trim with options package had all the toys, but also stickered at $36k Interior well designed with nice looking and feeling materials. Can have sunroof and DVD. Wife thinks this might be the car we are looking for until we take it for a test drive. Lots of wind noise coming over the two huge rearview mirrors. Transmission holds a gear too long on acceleration and slow to downshift when passing. The test vehicle had a rattle coming from the back. Even salesman said it was not a good test drive and he thought the wind noise was atypical. Took another one out and same result. At least there no rattle this time. This car is no where near Lexus quiet. It is not even Acadia quiet (and the GMC does not have the "quiet tuning" of the Buick Enclave). Promising Veracruz off the shopping list.
CX9 - Wife likes the looks on the outside. On the inside a lot of hard plastics (like my Acadia). In my opinion beige interior looks very nice, but on the black / black interior the lower panels of plastics looked cheap. Wife got behind the wheel and zoom / zoom. CX9 is almost as long as the Acadia, but not as wide and driving position feels lower to the ground. My wife is happy with the ride. Overall interior space fits the kids nicely, but my wife is not happy that in a $39k car she doesn't get a DVD and Sunroof. Also disappointed that their is no trip computer. The CX9 is on the maybe list. Overall nice car, but seemed somewhat less refined than the Veracruz and my Acadia.
Cadillac SRX - No truck space behind 3rd row which is not a split bench. One look and we are gone.
Suzuki XL7 - Adequate space, but interior looks cheap. The hood is kind of rounded up towards the middle and my wife could not find a driving position which she liked. Next.
2008 Highlander - Looks pretty good on the outside. Not a whole lot of room behind 3rd row, but it has 50% / 50% split. Interior looks very nice, but surprised that the materials are all hard to the touch. Second row has a 40% / 20% / 40% bench with a removable really small middle seat. Hard to believe any of the kids are going to be happy sitting in the middle seat. Without seating 3 across the middle can't take it on a road trip as not enough room in the back. Dealer offered a test drive, but we declined as we decided just not enough room. Also the sticker of $37k made us feel just not enough value for the money when compared to the CX9.
So CX9 is the only one left standing, but just not sure if it will be the right vehicle. Going to stay with the mid-sized sedan for now and reflect a little.
My conclusion - For minivan replacement, long trip vehicle and overall comfortable but unexciting ride around town the Lamda is the hands down best. CX9 has better ride, but limited interior space makes it best for an around town vehicle. Veracruz had surprisingly nice package, but ride still needs further refinement. Highlander will appeal to Toyota faithful, but not a class leader in my opinion.
Disclosure: We bought an Acadia earlier this month and we are quite happy with it so far.
We looked at a Honda Pilot before we bought the Acadia and the kids felt cramped in the 3rd row. I have rented a Freestyle in the past and felt it was underpowered, however I read the Taurus X will have a bigger engine so it might be a future option. As I previously mentioned we looked at the 08 Highlander and we were concerned about the comfort of the gimmicky middle seat in the 2nd row.
Study: Crossovers Continue To Be the Kiss of Death for Minivans (Inside Line)
I did pass a nice blue Freestyle today ... maybe I could retrofit sliders on it. hmmm.
The Siennas are not far off, but in the southeast region, the dealers are playing tricks with the option packages, making the preferred choice (package #5) disappear from the market. You either give up on DVD (package #4) or go for the $8000 package #6, which will include the kitchen sink and make the minivan cost $40,000!! The dealer was "kind enough" to offer it for 37,000.
And this is a good opportunity to plug the new dealer reviews and ratings system here:
Dealer Ratings and Reviews
I am in the market for the same type of vehicle. Ruled out the Odyssey because it scrapes its bottom on my steep driveway, Siennas were ruled out by the idiotic policies from the Toyota Southeast distribution network. Discarded all the 188" options, such as Pilot, Highlander, Veracruz, etc. Simply there is no way to have decent 3rd and cargo space at that size.
Wife black-balled the Freestyle (horrible, horrible, service from nearby Ford dealer and not willing to travel 20+ miles to next one every time it needs service) .
One other missing from your list, Subaru Tribeca. Probably the best interior in this class, some questionable restyling for this year, rear seat will be equally cramped.
Another option would be a 6-passenger sedan like the Impala or Lacrosse. Both are considerably smaller than the Lambdas. Even the Lucerne would drive "smaller," though it is no shorter.
Thanks for the suggestion of the Subaru Tribeca. I'll check that one out. The Tarus X might also work for her, but she views Ford as a very low end brand (too many mediocore Tarus / Windstar rentals over the years).
Since you are looking for a 200" vehicle, I think you would be very happy with one of the Lamdas. I really love my Acadia and don't miss the Sienna one bit. If you want a Sienna minivan (without the SET stupidity), you might look at the Hyundai van. I rented one a few weeks ago with the family and it was obvious Hyundai copied the Sienna. The engine was not as refined as the Toyota, but it was a pretty good knock off.
Headroom (in., front/middle/rear) 41.9 / 40.1 / 38.6
Legroom (in., front/middle/rear) 41.4 / 37.4 / 30.2
Shoulder Room (in., front/middle/rear) 61.6 / 61.4 / 59.7
Hiproom (in., front/middle/rear) 57.5 / 56.6 / 49.0
Cargo Volume (cu. ft., behind 3rd-row) 15.9
The behind the 3rd row cargo space is almost as big as a lambda, as is the 3rd row. And the 3rd row is split and the 2nd row slides, and it's not as big to drive as a lambda.
I actually disagree that the Oddyssey is the minivan benchmark. It carries niether Toyota's nor Chrysler's innovative features. I have to give it to the Chrysler, because it's the only American vehicle mentioned with equal/ greater respect in the same statement as the Japanese competitors. ANd this newmodel is just as worthy as any other competitors. What's really the deal maker is the Stow and go. THe flexibility makes all other competitors sort of irrelivant to me.
Crossovers replacing minivans? I didn't think so until the lambdas came out. Now I know it can happen.
Actually, the Pilot lacks about 5 cuft compared to the Lambdas.
Sitting as a front seat passenger in a Honda Pilot, I felt vertical freedom, having a generous 6 inches of space between my head and the roof. Safer! Spacious! Fabulous!
Neither vehicle had adjustable passenger seat. Neither was equipped with a moonroof.
The Saturn needs a passenger-seat-height adjuster as standard equipment.
If anything, I think CUVs are cannibalizing potential SUV sales as much or more than minivan sales. Absent the current crossover options, my family probably would have bought a Tahoe, Expedition, or Durango.
Second test drive was the mazda CX-9; I liked most everything about it, size, looks (2nd) and blue tooth. The Nav is not the best system out there, but fit and finish were good.
Third test drive was the Pilot; Again, not much to complain about, however it was the most dated vehicle out of the bunch (16' tires, last in looks) Best price and had good usable space in the front seats. Thought the ride was better than the 08' Highlander which surprised me. Nice all around but nothing that would really excite you.
Last test drive was the Acadia. IMO, best looking CUV with great amenities. Needed a little more horsepower but had the best suspension of the bunch. Great utility but the largest of the group, did not feel that way when I drove it. Just wonder if daily driving, ie small parking spaces, would make it feel bigger. Wish I could exchange XM and on-star for Sirius and blue tooth. Liked DVD, skyscape roof, nav, power tailgate, auto start.
I think the CX-9 is the best value but by a small margin we went with the Acadia. Hope reliability does not bite me in the [non-permissible content removed]. Good luck to all!