I do the same thing...start with the 3rd row. I just mean that the Highlander isn't in the same class as the Lambdas because it's over a foot shorter. It was too small for me too, which is why I bought a Freestyle 2 1/2 years ago.
The first thing I did when I was looking was to sit in the third row. Then I evaluated how easy it was to get back there. If I did not think an 8 year old could operate the sliding mechanism, it was out. That is why we almost passed on the Outlook. My kids could not operate the sliding chair mechanism very easily (neither could the salesman). But, with the 2nd row captains chair option, it was back in the running.
We took a road trip in ours this weekend and took a 2nd family along with us, so 7 people plus a dog.
The neat thing is I have the 8 seater Sienna, so I folded the smaller half of the 3rd row, and had tons of luggage space, albeit L-shaped. Everyone was comfortable and noone was asked to pack light.
Another bonus - kids can climb in through the back, no folding seats at all! And no waiting to get in and out.
My wife liked the Outlook better. It is her car, so she makes the final call. Would a minivan be more practical? Sure, but the spouse would not have been as happy. Easy choice for me...
Another thing - the bigger, new entries may be doing well but isn't the Highlander still the volume leader? It's not that big.
Nope- Highlander is bigger, and Toyota says it's bigger. And since when does Honda swim upstream? They don't have a V8 because they don't have a need for one. Who REALLY hauls in a Honda?
I'll give you that argument, but what about the Acadia and the Yukon? The Yukon XL, too. They are very close in interior space.
Though they do want to keep these segments from running into each other, Honda knows to stay competitive they have to up everything- including comfort-in all three rows. They have to do a huge and groundbreaking redo, but this time Honda will have to play a little catch up.
Have you sat in the old Highlander? That will give you real claustriphobia- and that's just in the second row!!! So space wise, Toyota did take a positive step- just not as positive as some others...
Bob nailed it. The real reason is they have minivan options as well. If you really need space behind a 3rd row, there you go.
Ofcourse if you need real space you get a van- and nothing else. But there are many families out there like those on this forum who want the look of the SUV, yet know they need a minivan- not just a car. These poeple want the little bit of added space. I'd say the Pilot strectches at least 3 inches, but no more than 6.
Honda knows to stay competitive they have to up everything- including comfort-in all three rows. They have to do a huge and groundbreaking redo, but this time Honda will have to play a little catch up.
I don't know if I'd consider it a "huge and groundbreaking redo" The lambdas, while over a foot longer than the Pilot, only have 3" more legroom in the 3rd row but 1" less in the 2nd row. Since the 2nd row can slide, the combined 2nd and 3rd row legroom of the lambda is only 2" greater. Not too much different. And 15CuFt, while not as large as the space behind the 3rd row of the lambdas isn't too bad for a mid-sized SUV. Maybe the Pilot owners don't consider the 2" less legroom and the need to throw something on the roof from time to time isn't a big deal.
Especially when they are able to "pilot" a trimmer vehicle for the bulk of the time when it is not hauling a full load. The lambdas are HUGE vehicles. They look huge and are more difficult to maneuver and parallel park. For some people, getting a third row with a smaller footprint and garage presence is a plus. For others, the bigger the better I guess.
I've only been in the driver's seat of the new Highlander, did it really grow that much? It still seems smaller than the Pilot to me, though I haven't looked that closely.
The old one's 2nd row seemed OK to me (low bench, though), but I suppose the new one is better.
The CR-V used to have that rear-mounted tire, which made the overall length seem longer. The new CR-V actually has more interior volume.
The current Pilot is 188" long, my guess is the new one will be 190-195" max, and won't try to go 200 plus like some entries here.
"Can you show me some specs because from what i remember reading, the CRV is now 177 in, down from 182 last year."
It is a bit deceiving. I was going by the new car reviews, but I checked the specs. The new CR-V is slightly wider (1.5 inches), and the vehicle body is longer.
The 2006 length is being measured from the end of the spare attached to the door; the 2007 length is the actual body dimensions (the spare is under the cargo floor). You can pick this up by noting that the 2006 SE was officially about .8 inches longer than the non-SE models.
So the actual body size of the 2007 is larger than the 2006.
Thanks for asking for specs; I had not researched the details previously.
Wow, yesterday was an off day!!! I mistyped A LOT. what I meant to say was that Honda DOESN'T have to do a huge makeover, but this time they will have to play a little catch up. Every one does have their downfalls here and there. The lambdas only have 36in of second row leg room. The Freestyle/Taurus X only has 90 cuft of cargo space- despite being a foot longer. The CX9 has 32 in of legroom in row 3. The Veracruz, the Highlander- All of them have a little something.
But it's pretty unanimous from what I've read in various articles, and from personal experience, that the lambdas are a step above the current Pilot. And that's to be expected of a 5 vs a 1 year old vehicle. But this is undoubtedly the fastest growing, fastest changing category in the US. As I said before, this is a segment that can be lead, but not benchmarked. Improvement isn't welcome- it's required.
They look huge and are more difficult to maneuver and parallel park.
Well- we can't argue looks (though i think it doesn't look it's size. Maybe a little smaller) but these vehicles definitely don't handle as big as they are. That's one of their benefits. Gas mileage close to a car, handling of a smaller vehicle. Plus- they only weigh 200lbs moe than the Pilot, and are more powerful. So driving a large vehicle isn't really the issue here, unless you really want a 5 seater CUV.
The current Pilot is 188" long, my guess is the new one will be 190-195" max, and won't try to go 200 plus like some entries here.
Definitely. They have a minivan! They want to play the van up as long as the market will let them. Adn when everybody starts replacing their minvans with crossover, they'll turn the sliding doors around, add 30hp, and increase ground clearance, too. Some Pilot front and rear fascias, of course. No crossover can beat a minivan in space-yet...
freealfas, I looked at all of them earlier this summer, and decided to buy the Buick Enclave.
As you mentioned, there are a lot of similarities between the various CUV models. For me, a former minivan owner for 6 years, I really liked the 2nd row captains chairs in the Acadia and Enclave. They make it so easy to access the 3rd row, and they make the 3rd row feel much roomier, IMHO.
Between the Acadia and the Enclave, I liked some of the trim options better in the Enclave, and it was also quieter.
I did like the "feel" of the CX( a little better, but the bench seat made is much harder to access the 3rd row (required flipping, folding, etc). Plus the GMC/Buick dealer was much closer to my home.
My wife and I are going to test an Outlook AWD XR with the 2nd captian chairs this weekend. We crossed shopped the Highlander and found it to be a nice vehicle, but access to the 3rd row was difficult. I sat back there and felt very closed in. I'm only 5'8" and felt that way. My mom in law owns a '04 Pilot and we have borrowed it several times for long trips and the ride is smooth and quiet. Still even with the Pilot access to the 3rd is difficult. It's really meant for kids.
Anyway, while at the Toyota dealer we checked out the 4wd Sienna. Now, this coming from a very anti-mini van guy, I can't argue the fact that the Sienna was extremely roomy and the practicality of it can't be beat. So eating my own words we haven't ruled one out. The bottom line is my wife will be driving it to haul the kids around, so the final call is hers and that's fine with me. Of course I'll be using for Home Depot runs and firewood pickups. Go figure right :shades:
Like someone said above, happy wife = happy life LOL!!!
I'll report back after our Outlook test drive this Saturday. I have a feeling I/we are going to fall in love with it.
When I compared Outlook to Acadia in March, I found that the MSRP of the Outlook was pretty darn close to the invoice of the Acadia. So, unless you can negotiate a below-invoice price on the Acadia, I think you'll find they're pretty closely matched, price-wise.
The bottom line is my wife will be driving it to haul the kids around, so the final call is hers and that's fine with me. Of course I'll be using for Home Depot runs and firewood pickups. Go figure right
Like someone said above, happy wife = happy life LOL!!!
That was me. :shades:
For hauling kids the power sliding doors are extremely handy. You can get a power hatch and even a power folding 3rd row seat in a Sienna. Show your wife a model with all those, and she'll love it. In an SUV I think you have to step up to a $60,000 Navigator to get the power folding seats, and you'll still give up the power sliding doors.
For you, and your Home Depot runs, the van is the only vehicle on your list that can fit a 4'x8' inside. I've done so even without removing any seats. The space is unbeatable. Sienna also has a roof rack and cross bars standard, which I put to good use.
We just built a deck. I was able to bring most of the stuff home myself. I hired a carpenter. Cost me $7700 for materials and labor, rather than $20,000 to outsource the entire job per earlier estimates.
You can do all of that with any of the CUV's as well short of putting the sheet goods inside hence the roof rack. Mine has the handy fold down front passenger seat(not sure any of the other's do) and a few packing blankets and you are good to go.
When I got out of an S10 pickup about 1997, I bought a 5'X12' trailer for around $400. Had to replace the bad tires on that the next year for about $150. I haul lumber, 4'x8' sheets, mulch, dirt, limbs, etc. with that. I will put 10-15 bags of fertlizer or a couple hundred pound of landscape brick, etc. in the Trooper when they will fit and are not too much of a mess.
A couple of years ago when replacing our deck Home Depot delivered the 75 2x6x16' for about $75. If you want to haul yourself, I think they have a truck you can rent for less than $25 for an hour or two.
You forgot the trailer tag and licensing fees, unless your area doesn't require that. And you need room to store it.
I don't have a hitch, and even worse, my buddy's trailer is a flatbed raft trailer. Fine for hauling hay, but I can't convince him to put some sides on it for my mulch hauling. And he has a heavy canopy on his truck covering up the bed - he's not much help at all, lol.
Last week I got a 4x8' sheet of 2" Styrofoam inside my minivan and was able to shut all the doors. It sort of hung over my head a little for the 2 mile drive home but I'm not all that tall anyway. :shades: I figured it was too fragile to let it hang out the back, like I would with Sheetrock or plywood.
Most of these crossovers look low enough to manhandle a sheet or two of 4x8 plywood on top of the racks if you aren't going far. Can't beat delivery to your doorstep though.
Here for a smaller trailer like that there are no license fees. 2.4 acres so I have a place to put it. I put hitches on my Rodeo and Trooper and the '04 Envoy came with it. Trailer is single axel and rated at 3500#. If I need more that that, I'll get it delivered or get my BIL to do something for me with the dump truck his construction company has... I used his Bobcat last year to spread a bunch of dirt that had been piled in the front yard since we put in the pool the year before.
My bottom line is I don't want to mess up something nice when I could do something else. It hurts me when I see someone in a $20K+ pickup so loaded down with firewood that it has to be at double or more load capacity. Esp. when around here you could get a real nice cord of firewood delivered and stacked for maybe $120. I'm frugal, okay cheap, but I hope to be getting a little smarter as I get older :-)
All good points brought up, I'll try to respond to all.
Roof racks are indeed great, but check the capacity on yours. Did you know that beefy looking aluminum rack on the Nissans can only carry a measly 75 lbs!? :mad:
Also, if it rains you can't get sheet rock home, not on a roof rack, or trailer, ain't happening. That stuff swells right up, too.
A 5'x12' trailer would be incredibly useful, but that's a bit hard to handle. What did it weight, dry?
A friend has a 5'x8' trailer and it weighs 700 lbs dry. The Freestlye can only tow 1000 lbs, so you have 250 lbs, or 3 bags of cement, before you're full. :surprise:
Others here can tow 3500 lbs, so that is an option.
In MD, you do have to register and even insure all trailers. Plus where would I park it? I already have 3 cars for 2 spots in the car port.
Finally, rentals were mentioned, I think you can only get those when the contractor's desk is open, certain hours Monday-Friday.
That would not work for me at all. I work, so I'd come home at 6pm, find out what was missing that the carpenter needed the next day, and do a quick run and get it myself. I'm not sure I'd have the time to rent one of those even if they were available at night.
The buddy with the trailer lives an hour away. I would have had to borrow his trailer for the entire 3 weeks or so for that project, which is kinda asking a lot.
Nothing beats the versatility of a van, especially one that fits the standard size building material inside, protected from the rain, without having to borrow a trailer or rent a truck.
The shopper has the Sienna on his short list, I'm just listing some of the advantages. No rebuttle has made my list any shorter, to be honest.
FWIW - FS can tow 2k lbs not that it matter's as they are phased out and the OP is looking at a Outlook so why even mention it?
as for roof racks they all have different ratings so your point to check is a good one. sheetrock in the rain - think tarp a few aisles over...
I live in the city and bought a CUV and am quite happy with it's ability to act as a swiss army knife for the depot run for our own this old house we bought.
No one was rebutting as much as making points that a CUV can accomplish the same tasks albeit in a different manner, simple as that. BTW - thanks for the rundown of YOUR requirements as opposed to the OP's.
If the buyer wants a CUV, buy it. Modest amounts of sheet goods are not that hard with an appropriate roof rack. Anything else in the cabin can go on costco packing blankets. You give up a bit of volume that's the difference. If you are getting larger quantities you are either renting the depot truck for $20 to take multiple trips out of the equation or you own/rent a small trailer that will solve it depending on the frequency/requirements of your trips.
If you like the Outlook buy what you are happy with as their functionality is largely similar short of the aforementioned ability to carry sheetgoods in the cabin.
In an SUV I think you have to step up to a $60,000 Navigator to get the power folding seats, and you'll still give up the power sliding doors.
Not true, you can go for the Expedtition, or Explorer, and with all the rebates you will probably pay less. You do lose power sliding doors, but that doesn;t really matter to me. I wouldn't get power doors on a van unless I don't have to pay any extra.
I do think they'll aim for the best space utilization, but not the most outright interior space.
Well ofcourse they don't want to have the best cargo space, because the package they have is what they like. They just want to enhance here and there, and they would like to be able to say "10 percent more cuft of cargo space". That only has to be like 95cuft of space- which is where Highlander is. And they want to stay competitive, so surppassing that will help.
I was responding to you, actually. Why the hostility? :confuse:
It's Friday. Relax. Have a drink. Thanks for the correction on the towing capacity.
Tarp won't keep the edges of the drywall dry. That's why they don't call it wetwall.
The OP was not specific, but when someone mentions Home Depot I think gold standard - 4'x8', because many things just happen to be that size. Note that pickups are built with more than 48" between the wheel wells for this specific purpose.
albook: didn't know the Expy also offered that feature. The Explorer does too? You sure?
Dodge has it on their new minivans, too.
If you have a petite wife I'm sure she'll love not having to flip and fold those seats.
Funny, the boys had the Freestyle as their favourite because they thought the manual flipping rear seats were so cool. They started having races to see who could do it fastest.
Again, why, we weren't talking about it so why even mention it, I didn't. The OP is looking at Outlook's so what's the point other than to take an incorrect shot at it's tow capacity.
you can tarp anything to keep it dry enough to get it home, been there done that.
as for many things being 4'x8', there are more things at depot that are not 4'x8' than are that will fit in both a mini and a CUV so as mentioned unless you are a frequent sheet good buyer the advantage is minor at best on those specific terms.
"Note that pickups are built with more than 48" between the wheel wells for this specific purpose"
WOW, I didn't notice that even once on any of the many sites I visited over the years for buildings I designed. I'm still trying to figure out why all those pick up truck driving workers/contractor's aren't driving sienna's in light of all their wonderfullness.
I do think they'll aim for the best space utilization, but not the most outright interior space.
Well ofcourse they don't want to have the best cargo space, because the package they have is what they like. They just want to enhance here and there, and they would like to be able to say "10 percent more cuft of cargo space". That only has to be like 95cuft of space- which is where Highlander is. And they want to stay competitive, so surppassing that will help.
It's hard to argue against the usefulness of a mini-van. I have a CX-9 and a small utility trailer that serve me quite well, but I certainly can't diss the person that opts for the mini-van.
I pretty much agree with that. About the only thing I'd really miss are the sliding doors. Having a little more ground clearance and an AWD option could be enough to swing the balance though.
After you test drive the Outlook, go test drive the Enclave. The Enclave is much more than an upscale Outlook or Acadia. It has anemities that neither of them have. It is much more upscale (read quiet and refined). The price is higher, but if you figure in what comes standard vs paying extra for on the other two, the difference narrows quite a bit. I started out looking at the Outlook too. That is until I came across the Enclave. After I test drove the Buick I didn't go back. Going over the differences in cost vs what you get, the Enclave gives much more bang for the buck. If you are going to mainly haul a lot of building supplies, maybe the Outlook or Acadia may be a better way to go. The Enclave is so beautiful inside that I would hate to mess it up! Good luck on your venture. Whichever you choose, you really can't loose!
Here's a way for some vehicles in the crowd of crossover SUVs to distinguish themselves from the pack (the Element surely won some minivan fans over with the wide opening and big empty it has).
Ditto. I was originally going to go with the Acadia. But when you price out a CXL Enclave versus a Acadia SLT-2 it is/was cheaper to get the Enclave plus you get the extra year btb warranty. The unique features that are available on the Enclave such as the articulating headlamps and the Quiet Tuning (triple sealed doors, acoustic laminar glass,extra insulation etc) make it a "better buy" However as of MY2008 you can not get the HUD option on the Enclave. The different styles appeal to different folks. Selection on the Enclave is more limited versus the Acadia and Outlook.
Post 3297: Again, why, we weren't talking about it so why even mention it, I didn't
Post 3286: You can do all of that with any of the CUV's as well short of putting the sheet goods inside hence the roof rack. Mine has the handy fold down front passenger seat(not sure any of the other's do) and a few packing blankets and you are good to go
Actually Freealfas did mention it.
i.e. different but just as versatile
About 80% as versatile, I'd say. That may be enough for the OP, but a van still offers more passenger room and more cargo room, costs less, while using less gas, accelerating faster, turning in a tighter cirlce, going faster through an accident avoidance manuever, the list goes on.
Steve: the Sienna does offer AWD and that model is 1.5" higher off the ground then the FWD model, so even AWD and ground clearance are there.
You give up 1000 lbs towing, 4500 for the Outlook vs. 3500 for the van, and image. That's about it.
Face it, the minivan is the rational pick.
As for Freealfa's sarcastic comment about contractors driving Siennas, they actually tend to buy full-size vans like the Ford Econolines if they are carrying items that need to stay dry.
Example: carpeting.
PS My Sienna's front passenger's seat folds flat as well, so very long items are a cinch.
You may not want to try to put too much logic in the CUV vs Minivan argument...bottom line is that most folks buying CUVs (especially those opting for the FWD) are simply buying the CUV because they like the style better. When comparing a FWD CUV to a FWD minivan (especially the big CUVs), the minivan will always win out on the practical side. The CUV may win out for style, looks, image, etc. but you can't argue these aspects.
On the other hand, some folks need an AWD, higher ground clearance, etc. and in those cases even a AWD Sienna might not work out.
One other reason for CUV vs minivan is ability to get luxury/premuim vehicle. I've driven minivans since 1990. Needed the size and utility of minivan but like a luxurious vehicle too. Last two cars were Town and Country minivans which at the time of purchase were in my opinion best at comfort/quiet/luxury compared to others in segment. Prior to release of the Buick Enclave in order to get beyond the "luxury" of the town and country yet be able to seat 2 adults and four teens comfortably required large SUV (Escalade/ Yukon Denali). Prior to the enclave my dream vehicle would have be a minivan made by Cadillac. Buick Enclave for me is the ideal replacement I've been looking for. Seating arrangement is IDEAL. Feels/rides like a cadillac. When comparing seating comfort (particularly third row) I think you really can't compare statistical data for inches of legroom. Many vehicles with what seems to be good third row legroom (by data) has floor of car quite high so effectively much less comfort than Enclave which has with lower floor.(and space to put your feet under the second row seats which many others in SUV class lack) I was amazed at the space utilization of the enclave. Access to third row is a breeze walking through second row captain chairs and plenty of third row space (as well as storage behind third row) More room in third row than Yukon XL/suburban despite smaller size of car. Don't see anything else out there that gives most of utility of minivan but upgrade in luxury from minivan.
Funny that you mention the Town & Country. The new ones have been beefed up, appearance wise, to look more like - you guessed it - SUVs. :shades:
There is a long standing SUV vs Minivans discussion here, but I doubt that any posts in there changed anyone's mind either.
I don't really want AWD - I'd rather have FWD and the extra mpg, even if it's just one or two mpgs. The extra couple of inches of ground clearance would be nice though.
"PS My Sienna's front passenger's seat folds flat as well, so very long items are a cinch."
not directly and since the OP doesn't know me he could have surmised that I drove a sienna from my non specific comment and since it also has the fold down front seat.
"About 80% as versatile, I'd say."
the "pied piper" routine in the CUV forum has gotten more than a little old. You made points about the OP's review of one vs. the other. Apparantly no one here in the CUV forum can say anything to the contrary to the mini's greatness around you. A simple statement that I've enjoyed my CUV and find it capable of doing most of what you stated a mini can has turned into this. I built a deck as well last summer with mine... enjoyed the utility and carried everything I needed to do it with my lowly, scorned, and not made anymore Freestyle. BTW - I didn't need to hire a carpenter either.
"Face it, the minivan is the rational pick."
For you...because if everyone thought like you there would be NO CUV market.
"As for Freealfa's sarcastic comment about contractors driving Siennas, they actually tend to buy full-size vans like the Ford Econolines if they are carrying items that need to stay dry."
PROVE IT...
Keep trying. Have you looked at pick up truck sales vs. van sales in this country. If you had any shot at being correct van sales would be comparable or exceeding PU sales. But I will concede the CARPETING contractor market MAY be sewn up with van sales if that makes you happy.
In the end I'm really not sure why you are cruising the CUV forums as you bought a Sienna and LOVE IT. The CUV crowd likes them and enjoys them and some even bought them because they WERE NOT a mini van. I guess we're just a wacky, crazy IRRATIONAL bunch around here, swimming up the minivan stream to the disdain of... YOU.
Steve--agree with you on FWD vs AWD. I've driven through some horrendous winters and never had any trouble with Town and Country FWD with base tires(MXV4)
On purely practical reasons, there is no advantage to a FWD CUV as compared to a minivan, so folks just admit that you're buying it for image, potentially re luxury features, and get on with life. People buy sports cars and luxury sedans for these reasons too. Nothing wrong with that. Otherwise everyone would be driving Camrys and Siennas.
bobw3-- I agree(at least in my situation). If lexus or cadillac offered a minivan I'd be first in line. Always wondered why lexus doesn't offer a large vehicle to comfortably fit 6-7 people--seems like there would be a market for it.
Comments
We took a road trip in ours this weekend and took a 2nd family along with us, so 7 people plus a dog.
The neat thing is I have the 8 seater Sienna, so I folded the smaller half of the 3rd row, and had tons of luggage space, albeit L-shaped. Everyone was comfortable and noone was asked to pack light.
Another bonus - kids can climb in through the back, no folding seats at all! And no waiting to get in and out.
Happy wife, happy life. :shades:
Nope- Highlander is bigger, and Toyota says it's bigger.
And since when does Honda swim upstream? They don't have a V8 because they don't have a need for one. Who REALLY hauls in a Honda?
Though they do want to keep these segments from running into each other, Honda knows to stay competitive they have to up everything- including comfort-in all three rows. They have to do a huge and groundbreaking redo, but this time Honda will have to play a little catch up.
Have you sat in the old Highlander? That will give you real claustriphobia- and that's just in the second row!!! So space wise, Toyota did take a positive step- just not as positive as some others...
Ofcourse if you need real space you get a van- and nothing else. But there are many families out there like those on this forum who want the look of the SUV, yet know they need a minivan- not just a car. These poeple want the little bit of added space. I'd say the Pilot strectches at least 3 inches, but no more than 6.
I don't know if I'd consider it a "huge and groundbreaking redo" The lambdas, while over a foot longer than the Pilot, only have 3" more legroom in the 3rd row but 1" less in the 2nd row. Since the 2nd row can slide, the combined 2nd and 3rd row legroom of the lambda is only 2" greater. Not too much different. And 15CuFt, while not as large as the space behind the 3rd row of the lambdas isn't too bad for a mid-sized SUV. Maybe the Pilot owners don't consider the 2" less legroom and the need to throw something on the roof from time to time isn't a big deal.
The old one's 2nd row seemed OK to me (low bench, though), but I suppose the new one is better.
The CR-V used to have that rear-mounted tire, which made the overall length seem longer. The new CR-V actually has more interior volume.
The current Pilot is 188" long, my guess is the new one will be 190-195" max, and won't try to go 200 plus like some entries here.
It is a bit deceiving. I was going by the new car reviews, but I checked the specs. The new CR-V is slightly wider (1.5 inches), and the vehicle body is longer.
The 2006 length is being measured from the end of the spare attached to the door; the 2007 length is the actual body dimensions (the spare is under the cargo floor). You can pick this up by noting that the 2006 SE was officially about .8 inches longer than the non-SE models.
So the actual body size of the 2007 is larger than the 2006.
Thanks for asking for specs; I had not researched the details previously.
Wow, yesterday was an off day!!! I mistyped A LOT. what I meant to say was that Honda DOESN'T have to do a huge makeover, but this time they will have to play a little catch up. Every one does have their downfalls here and there. The lambdas only have 36in of second row leg room. The Freestyle/Taurus X only has 90 cuft of cargo space- despite being a foot longer. The CX9 has 32 in of legroom in row 3. The Veracruz, the Highlander- All of them have a little something.
But it's pretty unanimous from what I've read in various articles, and from personal experience, that the lambdas are a step above the current Pilot. And that's to be expected of a 5 vs a 1 year old vehicle. But this is undoubtedly the fastest growing, fastest changing category in the US. As I said before, this is a segment that can be lead, but not benchmarked. Improvement isn't welcome- it's required.
Well- we can't argue looks (though i think it doesn't look it's size. Maybe a little smaller) but these vehicles definitely don't handle as big as they are. That's one of their benefits. Gas mileage close to a car, handling of a smaller vehicle. Plus- they only weigh 200lbs moe than the Pilot, and are more powerful. So driving a large vehicle isn't really the issue here, unless you really want a 5 seater CUV.
Definitely. They have a minivan! They want to play the van up as long as the market will let them.
Adn when everybody starts replacing their minvans with crossover, they'll turn the sliding doors around, add 30hp, and increase ground clearance, too. Some Pilot front and rear fascias, of course. No crossover can beat a minivan in space-yet...
As you mentioned, there are a lot of similarities between the various CUV models. For me, a former minivan owner for 6 years, I really liked the 2nd row captains chairs in the Acadia and Enclave. They make it so easy to access the 3rd row, and they make the 3rd row feel much roomier, IMHO.
Between the Acadia and the Enclave, I liked some of the trim options better in the Enclave, and it was also quieter.
I did like the "feel" of the CX( a little better, but the bench seat made is much harder to access the 3rd row (required flipping, folding, etc). Plus the GMC/Buick dealer was much closer to my home.
Hope this helps you in your decision making.
Anyway, while at the Toyota dealer we checked out the 4wd Sienna. Now, this coming from a very anti-mini van guy,
Like someone said above, happy wife = happy life LOL!!!
I'll report back after our Outlook test drive this Saturday.
I have a feeling I/we are going to fall in love with it.
Auto sales are down and prices are becoming soft, but the Saturn is at MSRP. (poor value for the money).
Like someone said above, happy wife = happy life LOL!!!
That was me. :shades:
For hauling kids the power sliding doors are extremely handy. You can get a power hatch and even a power folding 3rd row seat in a Sienna. Show your wife a model with all those, and she'll love it. In an SUV I think you have to step up to a $60,000 Navigator to get the power folding seats, and you'll still give up the power sliding doors.
For you, and your Home Depot runs, the van is the only vehicle on your list that can fit a 4'x8' inside. I've done so even without removing any seats. The space is unbeatable. Sienna also has a roof rack and cross bars standard, which I put to good use.
We just built a deck. I was able to bring most of the stuff home myself. I hired a carpenter. Cost me $7700 for materials and labor, rather than $20,000 to outsource the entire job per earlier estimates.
Ka-ching! :shades:
Honestly, I don't think Honda will go for class-leading space.
They can lead in other areas - fuel economy seems most likely with VCM v2. Maybe driving dynamics.
I do think they'll aim for the best space utilization, but not the most outright interior space.
i.e. different but just as versatile.
A couple of years ago when replacing our deck Home Depot delivered the 75 2x6x16' for about $75. If you want to haul yourself, I think they have a truck you can rent for less than $25 for an hour or two.
I don't have a hitch, and even worse, my buddy's trailer is a flatbed raft trailer. Fine for hauling hay, but I can't convince him to put some sides on it for my mulch hauling. And he has a heavy canopy on his truck covering up the bed - he's not much help at all, lol.
Last week I got a 4x8' sheet of 2" Styrofoam inside my minivan and was able to shut all the doors. It sort of hung over my head a little for the 2 mile drive home but I'm not all that tall anyway. :shades: I figured it was too fragile to let it hang out the back, like I would with Sheetrock or plywood.
Most of these crossovers look low enough to manhandle a sheet or two of 4x8 plywood on top of the racks if you aren't going far. Can't beat delivery to your doorstep though.
My bottom line is I don't want to mess up something nice when I could do something else. It hurts me when I see someone in a $20K+ pickup so loaded down with firewood that it has to be at double or more load capacity. Esp. when around here you could get a real nice cord of firewood delivered and stacked for maybe $120. I'm frugal, okay cheap, but I hope to be getting a little smarter as I get older :-)
I looked at both and found the Acadia to be a better overall value for the money.
Just one man's opinion.
Good luck!
Roof racks are indeed great, but check the capacity on yours. Did you know that beefy looking aluminum rack on the Nissans can only carry a measly 75 lbs!? :mad:
Also, if it rains you can't get sheet rock home, not on a roof rack, or trailer, ain't happening. That stuff swells right up, too.
A 5'x12' trailer would be incredibly useful, but that's a bit hard to handle. What did it weight, dry?
A friend has a 5'x8' trailer and it weighs 700 lbs dry. The Freestlye can only tow 1000 lbs, so you have 250 lbs, or 3 bags of cement, before you're full. :surprise:
Others here can tow 3500 lbs, so that is an option.
In MD, you do have to register and even insure all trailers. Plus where would I park it? I already have 3 cars for 2 spots in the car port.
Finally, rentals were mentioned, I think you can only get those when the contractor's desk is open, certain hours Monday-Friday.
That would not work for me at all. I work, so I'd come home at 6pm, find out what was missing that the carpenter needed the next day, and do a quick run and get it myself. I'm not sure I'd have the time to rent one of those even if they were available at night.
The buddy with the trailer lives an hour away. I would have had to borrow his trailer for the entire 3 weeks or so for that project, which is kinda asking a lot.
Nothing beats the versatility of a van, especially one that fits the standard size building material inside, protected from the rain, without having to borrow a trailer or rent a truck.
The shopper has the Sienna on his short list, I'm just listing some of the advantages. No rebuttle has made my list any shorter, to be honest.
as for roof racks they all have different ratings so your point to check is a good one. sheetrock in the rain - think tarp a few aisles over...
I live in the city and bought a CUV and am quite happy with it's ability to act as a swiss army knife for the depot run for our own this old house we bought.
No one was rebutting as much as making points that a CUV can accomplish the same tasks albeit in a different manner, simple as that. BTW - thanks for the rundown of YOUR requirements as opposed to the OP's.
If the buyer wants a CUV, buy it. Modest amounts of sheet goods are not that hard with an appropriate roof rack. Anything else in the cabin can go on costco packing blankets. You give up a bit of volume that's the difference. If you are getting larger quantities you are either renting the depot truck for $20 to take multiple trips out of the equation or you own/rent a small trailer that will solve it depending on the frequency/requirements of your trips.
If you like the Outlook buy what you are happy with as their functionality is largely similar short of the aforementioned ability to carry sheetgoods in the cabin.
Not true, you can go for the Expedtition, or Explorer, and with all the rebates you will probably pay less. You do lose power sliding doors, but that doesn;t really matter to me. I wouldn't get power doors on a van unless I don't have to pay any extra.
Well ofcourse they don't want to have the best cargo space, because the package they have is what they like. They just want to enhance here and there, and they would like to be able to say "10 percent more cuft of cargo space". That only has to be like 95cuft of space- which is where Highlander is. And they want to stay competitive, so surppassing that will help.
I was responding to you, actually. Why the hostility? :confuse:
It's Friday. Relax. Have a drink. Thanks for the correction on the towing capacity.
Tarp won't keep the edges of the drywall dry. That's why they don't call it wetwall.
The OP was not specific, but when someone mentions Home Depot I think gold standard - 4'x8', because many things just happen to be that size. Note that pickups are built with more than 48" between the wheel wells for this specific purpose.
albook: didn't know the Expy also offered that feature. The Explorer does too? You sure?
Dodge has it on their new minivans, too.
If you have a petite wife I'm sure she'll love not having to flip and fold those seats.
Again, why, we weren't talking about it so why even mention it, I didn't. The OP is looking at Outlook's so what's the point other than to take an incorrect shot at it's tow capacity.
you can tarp anything to keep it dry enough to get it home, been there done that.
as for many things being 4'x8', there are more things at depot that are not 4'x8' than are that will fit in both a mini and a CUV so as mentioned unless you are a frequent sheet good buyer the advantage is minor at best on those specific terms.
"Note that pickups are built with more than 48" between the wheel wells for this specific purpose"
WOW, I didn't notice that even once on any of the many sites I visited over the years for buildings I designed. I'm still trying to figure out why all those pick up truck driving workers/contractor's aren't driving sienna's in light of all their wonderfullness.
Well ofcourse they don't want to have the best cargo space, because the package they have is what they like. They just want to enhance here and there, and they would like to be able to say "10 percent more cuft of cargo space". That only has to be like 95cuft of space- which is where Highlander is. And they want to stay competitive, so surppassing that will help.
It's hard to argue against the usefulness of a mini-van. I have a CX-9 and a small utility trailer that serve me quite well, but I certainly can't diss the person that opts for the mini-van.
I started out looking at the Outlook too. That is until I came across the Enclave. After I test drove the Buick I didn't go back. Going over the differences in cost vs what you get, the Enclave gives much more bang for the buck. If you are going to mainly haul a lot of building supplies, maybe the Outlook or Acadia may be a better way to go. The Enclave is so beautiful inside that I would hate to mess it up!
Good luck on your venture. Whichever you choose, you really can't loose!
The return of suicide doors (Azcentral.com)
Post 3286: You can do all of that with any of the CUV's as well short of putting the sheet goods inside hence the roof rack. Mine has the handy fold down front passenger seat(not sure any of the other's do) and a few packing blankets and you are good to go
Actually Freealfas did mention it.
i.e. different but just as versatile
About 80% as versatile, I'd say. That may be enough for the OP, but a van still offers more passenger room and more cargo room, costs less, while using less gas, accelerating faster, turning in a tighter cirlce, going faster through an accident avoidance manuever, the list goes on.
Steve: the Sienna does offer AWD and that model is 1.5" higher off the ground then the FWD model, so even AWD and ground clearance are there.
You give up 1000 lbs towing, 4500 for the Outlook vs. 3500 for the van, and image. That's about it.
Face it, the minivan is the rational pick.
As for Freealfa's sarcastic comment about contractors driving Siennas, they actually tend to buy full-size vans like the Ford Econolines if they are carrying items that need to stay dry.
Example: carpeting.
PS My Sienna's front passenger's seat folds flat as well, so very long items are a cinch.
On the other hand, some folks need an AWD, higher ground clearance, etc. and in those cases even a AWD Sienna might not work out.
There is a long standing SUV vs Minivans discussion here, but I doubt that any posts in there changed anyone's mind either.
I don't really want AWD - I'd rather have FWD and the extra mpg, even if it's just one or two mpgs. The extra couple of inches of ground clearance would be nice though.
"PS My Sienna's front passenger's seat folds flat as well, so very long items are a cinch."
not directly and since the OP doesn't know me he could have surmised that I drove a sienna from my non specific comment and since it also has the fold down front seat.
"About 80% as versatile, I'd say."
the "pied piper" routine in the CUV forum has gotten more than a little old. You made points about the OP's review of one vs. the other. Apparantly no one here in the CUV forum can say anything to the contrary to the mini's greatness around you. A simple statement that I've enjoyed my CUV and find it capable of doing most of what you stated a mini can has turned into this. I built a deck as well last summer with mine... enjoyed the utility and carried everything I needed to do it with my lowly, scorned, and not made anymore Freestyle. BTW - I didn't need to hire a carpenter either.
"Face it, the minivan is the rational pick."
For you...because if everyone thought like you there would be NO CUV market.
"As for Freealfa's sarcastic comment about contractors driving Siennas, they actually tend to buy full-size vans like the Ford Econolines if they are carrying items that need to stay dry."
PROVE IT...
Keep trying. Have you looked at pick up truck sales vs. van sales in this country. If you had any shot at being correct van sales would be comparable or exceeding PU sales. But I will concede the CARPETING contractor market MAY be sewn up with van sales if that makes you happy.
In the end I'm really not sure why you are cruising the CUV forums as you bought a Sienna and LOVE IT. The CUV crowd likes them and enjoys them and some even bought them because they WERE NOT a mini van. I guess we're just a wacky, crazy IRRATIONAL bunch around here, swimming up the minivan stream to the disdain of... YOU.
How could we?