By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Only a full redesign with an increase in both length and width can a 3rd row seat be incorporated.
I see wwest's point about RX330 never getting a 3rd row seat, but the HL is Toyota's bread-and-butter crossover and Toyota cannot allow its arch-rival Honda to steal HL sales with the Pilot.
I way I see the redesign of the next generation HL would mirror the redesign of the new Sienna.
Toyota got some serious flak for creating an undersized Sienna in 1998 and in 2004, the Sienna comes back with a vengeance, matching or surpassing the Odyssey, size for size.
I bet the next HL will be the same thing, matching or surpassing size for size the Honda Pilot.
I wouldn't bet against a demographics survey indicating 5 or more seats being more willing to purchase an AWD minivan.
Next step up from HL....
Seating capacity: Sienna
SUV capability: 4runner.
What should I reasonably expect to pay for this HL? It is certified by Toyota and has all the upgraded packages. The milage is 44,000
Thanks,
Carrie
Steve, Host
Toyota has no choice but to make the next HL bigger. Doing so, Toyota can capture more people's hearts, but no doubt, it will alienate others (like you).
For all those people thinking that the 2004 will get a 3rd row...keep dreaming. The current HL definately doesn't have enough length for a usable 3rd row. Width is another problem. I am sure HL owners have noticed that as we move toward the rear end of the HL, the width is narrower than in the middle of the car and the roof slops slightly downward like an egg shape, cutting headroom at the area where the 3rd row would be positioned. Furthermore, the current HL's floor isn't designed for a theater-style seats like the Pilot and the Volvo XC90. If Toyota does stuff a 3rd row in the current design into that already small cargo space, it will get some serious flak for doing a half measure fix just keep up with the competition.
For now Toyota doesn't have choice but to keep the HL as a 5-seater and lose sales to Honda Pilot, but it will have to boost the HL's seating capacity, but only for the next redesign. For 2004, a new 3.3 V6 and a 5-speed auto tranny are definately possible, but just not a 3rd row seat.
IMHO, the Nissan Murano isn't targeting the exact same market as the HL and the Pilot so it doesn't need a 3rd row. The Nissan Murano and Infini FX35/45 are sport sedans in a SUVish crossover skin in the same way as the BMW X5 and soon X3. The HL and Pilot are suppose to be people haulers in a SUV skin.
- even though we're only planning/ hoping for only one more child (two total), kids have friends and teammates. I can't even remember how many times we'd have 5 or more kids in my dad's Caprice wagon, sometimes utilizing the fold-up tailgunner seat in the "way back".
- the extra interior cargo room that comes in a vehicle large enough to handle a third row. It's been a while since my college logic class so I don't remember the name for this type of reasoning, but the vehicles that have this type of room might as well have a third seat.
The way I describe the Pilot to my friends is that Honda took a Highlander, and replicated everything at somewhere between 100 and 125%. That includes height, width, engine size, seats, gears, etc. It's a shameless copy, but that is the most sincere form of flattery. Ask the Toyota folks how they came up with the new Sienna... I'd bet they ran through a dozen Odysseys, measuring every conceivable facet of that car.
I do think that the next HL needs a 3rd row. If you can stretch it just a wee bit to get those extra seats, that would mean you didn't have to go up to the Sequoia, which is too big for many.
And I bet the next Highlander will be a shameless copy of the Pilot...and I bet that the next HL will be at least the size of the current Pilot, if not even a little bigger.
The HL needs to get bigger. I've never heard of a review site criticizing a car for having too much interior room, only criticizing for not enough room, compared to the competition.
Steve, Host
"The lack of a center console created an airy feeling but left our CDs and other paraphernalia without a convenient home."
To:
"The lack of a center console storage compartment created an airy feeling but left our CDs and other paraphernalia without a convenient home."
Now the question is: what "missing" center console storage compartment!?! Just to let you know that all Highlander consoles have a storage compartment. I've personally stored CDs and "other paraphernalia" in it.
Personally, I would not want th HL to be any larger. When we bought (01, AWD, V6) the Pilot was not available, but I would not have considered it anyway. We were coming off an Explorer, and looking for something smaller. Actually, we ordered a Ford Escape .... that was the ideal size for us. It just never came, and we moved to the HL ... a great move on our part. In 2001, MANY HL owners had made
the same move (on the basis of comments on this and Yahoo's board). Today I do not read others saying that, but in 2001 was was very common.
I really like my HL, and I am delighted that the style has not grown tiring for me, whereas, the Escape is getting very old looking to me.
Happy HL'ing to all.
1)Cinci to Ft. Lauderdale, wife, 3 kids and a fair amount of luggage. Traveled @2,600 miles and ran fairly hard(10-15 mph over posted limits, but staying with traffic). We averaged @20 mpg for the trip.
2)For those wondering about the difference in using premium vs. regular gas, there is a noticeable improvement in performance when using premium. I fueled with 91/93 octane to cover the leg between Cinci and Atlanta(lots of mountains)and 87 octane for the flatter stretches of So. Georgia and Fla. It worked well, as I had no performance issues going through the hills. However, even on the flats in Fla., with only 87 octane, the HL seemed sluggish on the X-way ramps and when accelerating. I normally run the HL on 87 at home and will probably continue to do so, because on a daily basis, the performance difference isn't worth the extra 20 cents per gal.
3)We have had the HL in the shop for 2 routine oil changes/services and have had no other issues, other than a squeaking noise during cold weather. We'll see if it reappears this winter. Driveability, performance, comfort and quality are all as expected.
4)Although it was a bit tight on room for this trip, the HL size is just right for us. The Pilot is bigger, which affects handling, parking, etc. and we really didn't need the extra seating or space for an every day vehicle. The HL serves the purposes for which we bought it.
5)Complaints, only mild ones.
*Gas mileage could be better, but it is an SUV and my driving style surely doesn't help.
*Audio sound quality is poor to fair. This may be my biggest complaint.
*The "wind tunnel" effect is quite annoying and painful. Can't put the rear windows down, unless they're all down.
6)One really good thing on the trip was the stability of the HL. We went through heavy rains and winds on I-75, especially in Fla. and handling was always solid and controlled. I'm sure the AWD had a lot to do with it, but I think the lower profile of the HL made a difference as well. Lots of other vehicles weren't as fortunate-the ditches were full of them!
Final note: After 7 months and nearly 12,000 miles, I am pleased with the HL and would not hesitate to buy another one. Hope this helps settle some issues in people's minds.
Be Warned--while the $1000 rebate is currently being offered by NC Toyota dealers, additional charges tacked on by the SE region greatly reduce the incentive. The KBB invoice breakdown shows that NC dealers are subject to a $565 Southeast Toyota Administration Charge that goes straight into the invoice, plus a $25 additional freight charge, eating up $590 of the rebate right off the bat. Additionally, this dealership's destination charge was $550 (instead of $510 like everyone else) plus differences between prices of options added even more cost. After adding desired options--some options are more expensive in the SE--the "rebate" netted out to only $210, not nearly the $1000 you think you're getting just for crossing the VA/NC border.
I got a Black HL 4x2 Limited in Virginia. I got the one I wanted...well, it's the one my lovely wife really wanted...with leather, heated seats, moonroof, vehicle skid control, front side air bags, towing prep, 6 CD changer, preferred accessory package, running boards, and the cheesy auto-dimming mirror with compass (LA, HD, SR, VD, BE, TO, EJ, Z1, RB, and N1) at invoice plus $250 local advertising charge they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate. However, with some added service-related bennies thrown in, plus the fact their Processing Fee was less than half of what other VA dealers were charging ($189 vs $399), it was basically a wash. The dealer that promptly returned my calls and e-mails, answered my questions with the least amount of nonsense, and realized I was prepared to start low and work up (vs working down from the MSRP) ended up getting the sale.
As for the helicopter effect...after reading all the posts about the rear windows causing the excess buffeting and noise, I was amazed last night when my three-year-old rolled down her window at 60mph...I'll bet she won't be doing THAT again!
Hope this is of use to someone out there. Happy Motoring!
One question is that we cannot decide between 2 or 4wd. Although we live in DC area where there is snow & ice, we try to avoid driving in snow & ice due to drivers in area. The roads are generally cleared enough before we need to be on them anyway.
Does 4wd have any significant advantage over 2wd on wet roads and borderline ice/slush typical of cleared roads? Would the traction control system take care of such situations. Apparently the traction control system is highly desired in either 2 or 4wd.
I apologize for my lack of knowledge of 4wd since we have never had it. I have read a few articles on 4wd/awd, but still need reassurance before getting too serious on a HL model.
Plus I do not know if a 2wd would depreciate more because it may be less desirable than a 4wd model. However, that may depend on the area for any definitive answer.
Thanks for any help with this.
Henry
In order to avoid the additional mechanical complexity needed with a "true" AWD (Chrysler T&C AWD as an example) the VC fluid is formulated to never rise above the semi-flaccid state.
So my advice would be to get the FWD HL with VSC/Trac and avoid the extra cost of the rather useless AWD models.
But be cautions and aware, always, that FWD vehicles have serious (hidden) flaws operating in slippery roadbed conditions. The RX300, and I suspect the HL also, has transmission control firmware that up-shifts during coasting, coastdown, to prevent most engine braking to the front tires and the possible loss of control thereby.
But both might still be subject to the rear coming around fairly quickly, suddenly, on a curve and with throttle lift on a slippery downhill run.
If we buy a new HL, would probably go with fwd/2wd. Suppose that we have been driving for over 40 yrs with 2wd so we can probably get by another 20 w/out it. I would like to find a used one so, if the price were okay, I would take either configuration. But used 2002 models are not easy to locate.
As for 4 cyl, I just do not know if it would provide sufficent hp to navigate the hills/mountains on the Pa. Turnpike and central Pa. state roads.
Thanks for your suggestions.
I think we are seeing so many AWD vehicles on the market because the manufacturers are now recognizing that FWD was a big mistake, and AWD is the most logical thing to do rather than announce their mistake.
I can remember two times in which a FWD vehicle pulled me through unexpected slippery roads while RWD cars were lining the ditches on both side of the road. The first time, traveling I-5 Between Mt. Vernon and Bellingham, on an overcast/rainy day (many of those up there
The second time, traveling on 505 in california, I suddenly entered a very hard rain. Again, with cruise set around 80 mph, I hit water filled ruts. The tach raced up several hundred RPM but the FWD pulled me right through to safety while I saw a RWD camaro spun out in the center median.
In both cases, I was thankful to be driving the FWD car. It is just important that people understand the limitations (disadvantages) of their vehicles and know how to react to driving conditions.
AWD is weighty and expensive - they are going to that more and more only as a substitute for the old truck-style 4WD systems.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Steve, Host
I have always thought that for safeties sake cruise control disengaged the instant wheel slip was detected. Or is that completely new feature?
Never-the-less I have ALWAYS disabled my cruise control in slippery roadbed conditions or when the OAT was hovering near of below freezing.
In the Dec. 1990 snowstorm here on the eastside of Seattle all I could see for miles and miles on SR520 was FWD vehicles spun out, abandoned, or in the ditch. Of course that might have been due to the predominance of FWD...
Now, it would have been fine to turn off cruise control in the instance of hydroplaining because the road was straight and I would have naturally pushed the clutch in as well, but on the hail I would rather have the front tires pulling me through the hail and around the corner than simply coasting. In both cases if it was an automatic FWD (or a manual without pushing the clutch), turning off cruise control would cause compression braking on the front end which would have likely caused a spin.
I believe why I saw so many RWD cars in the ditch was because they instantly fishtailed as they were caught off guard as well.
I don't know about mid or rear engine cars, never have driven one and don't really know their handling characteristics.
I think that the more upscale cars will be changing back to RWD. Look at the FX35 and Murano, similar vehicles, but the more expensive infinity is RWD biased while the cheaper Murano is Front. It is much more cost effective to simply build an engine and transmission, bolt them together and drop it into the engine compartment.
As for Seattle snow fall, I lived in Both Bellevue and Bellingham for close to 20 years, I would say most of the spun out drivers has to do with inexperienced drivers. Also, most vehicles built are FWD, so of course you will see a large number abandoned or spun out in bad weather conditions. I see plenty of 4WD and AWD vehicles spun out on the way to the ski slopes in bad weather, mainly because they seem to be the majority of cars heading up (here in N california at least).
My drivetrain preference would be in the following order: AWD 50/50 split, RWD biased AWD, FWD, and then RWD. I would stay clear of reactionary FWD biased AWD vehicles. I have seen a few CRVs spin as their front wheels slip causing the rear wheels to engage. If the rear tires have more traction than the front, a spin can occur as if it was a normal RWD car.
Coming soon to a dealer near you!
I wish!
On "cruise" I oftentimes find myself a tad queasy entering a corner and not being "in control". My typical reaction is to touch the brake very lightly to kill cruise while seeking the correct throttle position to enter just a tad slower but "in control".
With an e-throttle the cruise control ECU could be made to "notice" that I have applied pressure to the footfeed and thereby release control to me until the footfeed returns to "neutral".
Since I kept the wifes car, our 2002 Camry LE V6,for the day,decided it would be a good idea to have the oil changed and tires rotated. While at the dealership they found a piece of wire protruding from one of the tires. I permitted them to patch the tire and forgot about it.
Upon driving the Camry home, I noticed it handled much better than it did on the way to the dealer this morning. I do not get to drive the Camry very much. Apparently the wire was causing the car to ride funny and to pull to the right. The wife is extremely happy with the way the car is now handling.
Later in the day when I picked up the Highlander, I noticed the rushing wind noise was gone. Apparently they were able to fix it by adjusting the D/S Front Door Weather Striping.
I am extremely pleased with the service at Toyota West in Statesville.
Regardless, my 92 LS400 a 90k miles still has the factory coolant, and still tests to -20F, ph level okay also.
Thanks
GregB
The Chevron is made from a hydrocracked base stock, and is pretty highly regarded by some of the experts on the oil discussions - and it's real inexpensive - about a buck a quart. Only problem is it's getting scarce at the Walmart stores near me. And I figure with the Mobil it would be no problem to change at 5K intervals.
What I don't quite get is Toyota's stance on synthetics. They don't say to not use it, but they say that if you do, then don't switch back to conventional oil. I don't really intend to change back, but the modern synths all say that they are 100% compatible with mineral oils. I'm guessing this is all just held-over ideas from another era when the two types weren't compatible.
I can understand why they don't out & out recommend synthetic oil also - the public would see it as an increase in maintenance costs, and maybe purchase a car that doesn't "need" special expensive oil. I had no problem using dino Chevron or Valvoline, but I feel that I'm giving the car the best for an extra $30 to $45 a year.
Glen
Happy HL'ing to all.