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Comments
Thanks for your reply and valued information.At present I don't own a HL ( only a 96 Ford Explorer) which was an easy roof rack cross bars removal.
We will be actively looking to purchase one soon and I will certainly heed your advice as to asking the dealer to remove them prior to my taking delivery. Any others out there that have had to do the same thing?
Thanks again for the help!
The HL and RX are equipped with a very "flaccid" VC in order to keep the manufacturing costs low. A VC that will truly "rise" to the occassion would require a few more mechanical components, over-running clutch, dog-clutch, like those in the Chrysler T&C.
Engineers knowledgeable of 4x4s recognize the HL and RX AWD setup as nothing more than a simple HACK.
The Chrysler T&C AWD, for instance, will give you substantially better AWD performanmce and you can put snow chains on any set, or all four, wheels.
Because of tight suspension clearances in the rear Toyota/Lexus recommends snow chains ONLY for the front. When questioned about the potentially hazardous nature of this configuration they suggested sticking with snow tires all around and not using chains at all.
My wife was leaving her work late at night in a dense fog. While driving across the parking lot, she ran into a parking light post at low speed. See for yourself at http://kr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/tdat/lst?.dir=/Toyota+Damage&.src=ph&.last=1
What are my options? Do you guys feel that the damage to the bumper is light enough to be fixed or should the whole bumper be replaced?
A friend of mine, who owns a late model Camry, claims that she was able to fix the similar problem at a substantially low cost ($~500) by contacting one of Toyota-approved body shops. I was expecting to spend $~2000 to completely replace the bumper.
Thanks.
Please advise.
Thanks for a great message board!!
Gary
Incidentally, the traction offered by these types of vehicles should more than satisfy the majority of its buyers (the demand is so great that every manufacturer is getting in on the action). This is a product aimed at a new market that die-hard truckers are having a hard time to accept.
There are times when the WSP will not allow you too proceed up the pass without chains installed.
I have never used any of my 4wd Jeeps for off-roading yet I needed 2 sets of chains often enough that I carried them in the back each and every winter.
Many, many times the full-time mode of the Jeep was not up to the task at hand, and luckily I had the part-time and then the chains behind that as backup.
The RX and HL AWD setup falls far below the capability of the Jeep's VC implemented full-time AWD.
Because the HL/RX VC's AWD implementation is so slack I suspect that the FWD version of these will do just as well in the majority low traction conditions.
Buying the AWD version of these vehicles is most likely only a waste of money and fuel.
Evidently you are probably one of the few that actually requires this kind of set-up. Consequently it appears that the Jeep is the only vehicle that can meet your needs.
As I stated earlier... most people (over 90%) will only require the simple AWD set-up used in the HL and in similar types of vehicles. Please note that the high seating position while maintaining a car like ride is another reason why many choose to purchase them. The HL is rated pretty high is this regard.
In my opinion this current fad of car based SUV's will soon be replaced by fancy AWD station wagons i.e. Chrysler Pacifica.
In the Jeeps I would first go from AWD to 4WD becuase that was easier than putting the chains on.
I spent a few years in North central Montana driving mostly RWD vehicles and snow chains on the driving wheels always got me through.
Putting snow chains on the driving wheels ONLY (front) of an RX or an HL can prove to be extremely hazardous.
So the RX and the HL lose out on two counts, no REAL AWD, and no backup, snowchain, capability without a serious risk.
I am just curious, why do you consider putting snow chains on the front wheels only as hazardous?
If you check your owners manual, snow tires or chains, I believe even Toyota and Lexus tell you of the danger in something of an oblique way.
And I am not having a hissy fit, I'm just trying to help others not make the same mistake I have, twice.
I bought my first RX300 AWD, a 2000, because my experience with Lexus had led me to put complete trust in the marque. I traded up to the 2001 because I was told the TRAC would make up for the slack VC. It doesn't, it cannot, ever.
In the meantime if I need to go skiing or over one of our mountain passes in the wintertime I'll just rely on my old trusty Ford, AWD Aerostar.
Actually I'd probably throw a set of chains in the back of the GS300 and trust it before the AWD/NOT!-FWD RX.
Having driven across (Montana-North Dakota-) Minnesota in the wintertime several times, and needing chains intermittently on an interstate highway, I have trouble believing you get along without them, especially in an HL or RX.
Go downhill, braking, on a slippery slope, with chains ONLY on the front, and you will quickly be following your rear!
I agree with the "masters", if you're going to use chains on an AWD, use them all around. On a RWD you can use chains only on the rear with reasonable safety.
FWD or AWD biased toward the front, if you need chains, STAY HOME!
What is unique to the HL and RX is the rear suspension spring that is within less than an inch of the tire surface... rear chains cannot be used, ever. Were it not for this I'm sure the owners manual would advise (drag) chains only on the rear, or front and rear, NEVER JUST THE FRONT!
This isn't true only if chains are used, I was once in a front drive (85 Nova) heading up skiing without chains, when the driver let up on the gas going around a corner, the compression of the engine braked the front tires and caused us to go in a spin and we ended up facing uphill traffic, not too fun. If you drive a manual front drive, it is best to press the clutch in whenever you brake while driving in snow or ice so compression braking doesn't occur.
Essentially, if you have more traction on the front, there will be a greater probability of spinning than if you have more traction in the rear. This doesn't mean that putting chains on the front is dangerous, it is just not ideal. I used to drive a front drive manual car and I had to use chains all the time heading up skiing, I never once had a problem but I knew not to overdrive the conditions and make quick turns for this very reason.
I recently bought a reardrive biased AWD vehicle partly for this reason, but I wouldn't feel unsafe in a front drive biased AWD. Any vehicle can be driven safely in adverse conditions if the driver knows what they are doing and are being cautious to not overdrive the situation.
BTW, I think if you read the posts here, noone belives they have made "a mistake" in purchasing the HL. And the posts regarding traction, in a variety of conditions with AWD, have been overwhelmingly positive.
Do you see alot of those 4WD Aerostars on the mountain passes? I did not know that they were a vehicle of choice in those conditions.
I can assure you that I have driven across North Dakota on numerous occasions and was just in northern Minnesota. I can count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the number of times I have seen chains on a vehicle. The AWD HL would be (and is) much more preferable. It has been years since I have seen any vehicle with chains in the upper midwest. The HL cruises through the snow on the backwoods or on the interstate with no problems. I think the "mistake" you made in getting your RX300 (times 2) is unique to your own situation.
Also, the VSC system worked surprisingly well in controlling skids around corners. I was very impressed -- I pushed it on purpose, and multiple times the light would begin flashing and beeping and the car would shudder a little bit as the brakes were pumped but it never lost its path except in low-speed maneuvers below VSC's cut-off point (9 mph).
As I recently purchased a 2002 Highlander 1MZ-FE V-6 and I must admit that I missed out on the “sludge issue”, my owner’s manual calls for API Service SL Oil. Also the 2001 fall issue of the Canadian Toyota Gazette had a product focus on the new Toyota Motor Oil ILSAC GF-3/API SL with the following description, “ exceeds new industry standards for fuel economy, engine deposits, and oxidation stability”. I just find it strange that the 2002 V-6 models are not included even though they have the same engine as previous models, I wonder if this new SL oil has anything to do with it, although I doubt it.
API link:
http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/ACF28.pdf
You're infecting messages over here in the HL forum as well, huh? Looks like there are more folks that are taking the same stance as I am - the HL/RX is NOT and has never been advertised as, a Jeep Wrangler replacement.
It is not a do anything, go anywhere vehicle. It is designed for on-pavement driving, be it dry, wet, snow, sand, etc. If you want to go up mountains, get a different vehicle. If you live in an area where tire chains are a requirement by law, get a different vehicle.
Period.
End of story.
I've taken our RX AWD out in snow, hit the gas hard, and the RX does nothing exciting - just goes forward like it's supposed to. The FWD version will NOT behave the same way (the TRACS/VSC will be a bit more intrusive).
Even if you can demonstrate that there is 99% torque at the front and 1% at the rear, it really doesn't matter. All that matters is that the AWD of the HL/RX performs, and performs very well indeed.
To all HL owners, wwest has been spreading his "opinions" of the AWD of the RX/HL, as well as the HVAC of these vehicles, all over the RX forum as well.
-Craig
The TSB is NV 012-01. It was posted here also, but I can't remember where or when.
388
As you can see from reading these posts most people really have no idea how very dangerous FWD or front biased AWD can become quite suddenly and without forewarning.
Lots of people with TONS of RWD experience get into a FWD or FAWD vehicle with no idea whatsoever of the differing dynamics in handling on LTS.
I have seen it said that the industries pursuit of ABS is the result of too many crashes resulting from the unwitting application of engine braking on LTS.
I notice that my 2001 RX attempts to eliminate or minimize this undesireable effect by shifting the tranx into the highest range if "coast" mode is detected.
And can anyone tell my why Toyota/Lexus is marketing this vehicle as AWD when all it would take to make it truly so would be so inexpensive at the manufacturing level.
Toyota (Cheaper) I guess I can accept, but Lexus?
"The Passionate Pursuit of PERFECTION"
NOT !!!
Have you seriously gotten stuck in your RX300 (either your '00 or '01)? If so, what were the conditions and did you call up Lexus to come pull you out?
I would find it nearly impossible to get stuck on the types of conditions that the vechile (RX and HL) are designed and advertised for.
They've made the vehicle idiot-proof. Not that I'm name calling anyone who bought two of these...
-Craig
The AWD setup, "loose" VC and poor rear suspension clearance.
The Nav system
The climate control
And now the engine sludge problem
Unless the engine sludge problem turns out to be something the dealer's service department "cooked" up in order to increase oil change revenues.
o The Nav system works great for it's intended purpose - major/minor cities; nothing rural. I've used it many, many times with accurate results.
o The climate control is fine the way it is
o Engine sludge - who knows what's going on
Willy, this getting off topic, as half your gripes don't even apply to the HL.
-Craig
I use the Chrysler T&C AWD system as a reference because it is easy for anyone to see, in comparison, how "cheap" the HL/RX implementation is and why it preforms so poorly.
Please Host, will you help us get back on topic?
In all other respects these are basically the same vehicles.
Do you realize that it's really people who don't want or like to hear bad news about their vehicle that prevent the manufacturers from taking corrective action?
So go ahead, talk it up, everything is just fine and dandy...
1.) Do not order the limited slip or skid control and have a vehicle with just 1 front and 1 rear wheel actually applying power to the ground.
2.) Order the limited slip and at least if one wheel slips, either front or rear, then limited slip will kick in, and the opposite wheel on the axle that slipped, will then place power to the ground.
3.) Order the Skid Control, and the brakes will be applied to a wheel when it slips and power will be transferred to the opposite wheel on the same axle like limited slip, and if the vehicle is sliding at any angle, more braking will be applied to straighten out the vehicle.
If this is correct, then option 2 or 3 is my best bet for added traction, and if I was to make sure the vehicle is more stable, then option # 3 is my best choice.
Thanks
Opinions of Town Hall members are appropriate when discussing the HL on this board with some latitude given to comparisons with and performance of other vechicles when relevant.
Within the rules of the road, if we don't care to read particular comments and opinions, we can either offer alternative facts, persepctives or opinions - or - just scroll down!
tidester
Host
SUVs
AWD with VSC/TRAC is your very best option.
Rear LSD is no longer available on the RX it comes standard with VSC/TRAC.
Front LSD is a very RARE bird.
It's good to be informed.
I get about 20 - 21 MPG in mixed driving (but mostly highway), sometimes a bit below 20. As for sludge concerns, I have always been a 3,000 - 4,000 mile oil change person anyway, and with the new API SL category oil than came out in July 2001 (more info on that at http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/ACF28.pdf ) , which my dealer uses (as perhaps most do by now, I suspect), I am confident my HL will be just fine. As for my dealer, I am more impressed the more I deal with the service department (Toyota San Luis Obispo, central coast of California)....excellent service...excellent. I have gotten four oil changes/related service there so far plus the visor replacement, and I purchased a hood protector from their parts department and talked with the parts department about other accessories....excellent service to date. This is my first Toyota, by the way (traded in a '97 Accord for my HL).
I was just thinking tonight that if I had to replace my HL for some reason, I can't think of anything other than another HL I'd replace it with. Anyway, my two cents worth for now!
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Works like a charm.
What part of CA?
DHG
Funny. He said how bad they are, how the AWD is basially a front wheel drive vehicle, and how bad the Nav is. Yet, he bought two of them.
The first time he bought one (an '00 model), maybe he was naive. Then he bought ANOTHER one. Why? Who knows. Shame on him.
He still hasn't answered the question of if he's ever gotten stuck in his RX. I don't see how anyone could get stuck in an AWD HL/RX while driving within the intended driving conditions (on pavement). The AWD system in the HL/RX is THAT good.
-Craig
Getting stuck..
We were going to drive the RX from Seattle to Nyssa oregon this past winter so I went out and bought two sets of tire chains. Then I read the RX owners manual and discovered that chains can only be installed on the front. So the chains stayed at home in the garage and luckily we had out-standing weather throughout our trip, virtually no snow on any of the four mountain passes on our return route from central oregon.
The only potential problem we had was the Nav telling us to go more than an hour out of our way on the shortest time computation from Condon OREGON to home.
We took our grandkids up to the pass to play in the snow new years day. As luck would have it we had to take an AWD Aerostar because there were seven of us.
In the parking lot at the pass the aerostar had no problem getting around on the packed snow and ice but I did watch as a new RX failed to negotiate an incline (along with Many, many otherds) that the aerostar had no problem with twice. Then along came a new 4runner. When he couldn't get up the incline I got out and offered to push, when apparently made him slightly angry and he said no, he'd try it in low range. Of course that didn't work either.
So no, I haven't been stuck in the RX, but it hasn't been into a trial by fire yet either.
Although it was only a slight incline it was late in the day and was VERY slippery and no capability to make a run at it.