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I hate the guys that criticize
And minimize the other guys
Whose enterprise has made them rise
Above the guys that criticize.
The geopolitical situation in Iran...an oil producer who also is destabilizing the region with their nuclear shenanigans, is the fire that started this increase. Add to that Pres Chavez of Venezuela..who recently took over controls of all oil fields and demanded a big ...big royalty increase....thus adding to oil prices. Iraq...the insurgents are doing a good job destabilizing the industry there...and the government as a whole. Nigeria also has big problems....
so if you were an oil trader...and you see your suppliers having lots of problems....instead of lining up to sell gas /oil....they are distracted....you sense that the oil / gas contracts that you have , all of a sudden, are worth much more....since there is going to be a shortage...even though no shortage is here yet....
profit taking happens even in us...when we see a higher paying job...we jump ship...thus making the price for this your work more MORE expensive...!!!
Funny.
My landscapers just sent me a notice explaining that my lawn care will increase 10$ a week due to gas prices.
So now I'm up to a good 30$ or so extra a week because of the gas prices.
Next up is the grocery store. Prices will start to inch up there in almost every product.
me: Why? Check out the 2006 Honda Civic w/ auto. and manual transmissions. What gets better mpg? Does the Prius or most other hybrids use a manual? Why? Becuase a modern computer can determine the optimum shift point (or belt setting, on the CVT) for fuel efficiency better than a human can.
me: Does this mean that if we just didn't "deregulate our labor", that we wouldn't have to compete with the 3rd world? I hate to tell you, but union or no unions, it makes no difference, we're in competition with the rest of the world, and with each other, and try and make themselves better. It is people producing stuff (and services) and becoming better that improves the world.
You're in a bidding competiton everyday with everyone else, for gasoline and every other resource, health-care, housing, food, etc. That competition is what motivates people to get up out of their bed and produce something.
What do you expect ? I got my car in 1999 when gas was 70-80 cents . I just finished highschool and work and went to college , I was making 25k . Now i'm making 45k a year . My pay didn't quite double in the time frame . Gas has gone up almost 4 times .
Some people bought thier trucks nad suvs 2 or 3 years ago when gas was under 2$ now its over 3$ in some areas. What are they going to do ? buy a new fuel efficent vechical ? That would assume they had the money .
me: (great to hear from you!) Yes, so many people try and make some sort of unique rule to tax some vehicle segment they don't like. You have people who want a tax based on displacement, or hp, or such, ignoring that the current tax system takes all that into account with regards to fuel usage.
There are 2 main components to fuel usage: 1) mpg, and 2) amount driven. If a 500hp BMW that gets 20 mpg drives 5,000 miles and a Prius getting 50mpg drives 15,000 miles they both use the same amount of gas. Both should pay the same tax amount. But our society appeases those who think the BMW is some evil and they do get hit with a gas-guzzler tax to discourage their purchase.
1) The oil industry as a whole (exxon, bp amoco, shell, etc.) are all reporting record profits and earnings.
This is not 1 or 2 companies exploiting another companies weakness, this is exploitation of the entire populace.
2) The federal government regulates prices of all other energy companies selling their product to the public. Natural gas and electricity are regulated, why not gas and oil?????
3) Just as a simple example, Wal Mart has lately been villified and crucified by many in the media and elsewhere. Yet Wal Mart shows profit of around $10 billion for the year, while Exxon profits $10 billion per quarter, and their total revenues are about the same.
4) Somehow the Republicans in congress and the Bush Administration decided in their energy bill last year, that in the face of record profits and revenues, the federal government should provide $2 billion in corporate welfare to the oil companies for new exploration.
Something stinks here, and it probably is the complete unadulterated GREED exhibited by some of the wealthiest people in the country. I think a $400 million retirement package is insane, but Exxon feels it's just compensation to their former CEO.
Maybe the movie "Wall Street" was a documentary. "How much is enough Gordon?"
"There is never enough money."
Maybe the Bush administration will give these guys another tax cut. After all the deficit was only $450 billion last year. :mad:
We'll just ignore Darwinism and economic competition as myths and fallacies?
And the money that they paid their CEO was quite a bit, but that money didn't cost you anything extra. If the CEO didn't get it, it would have been added to the profit, which is owned by the stockholders. So it was the stockholders money, and they should be the ones to be upset, if they feel it is excessive. Remember $400M is about 1% of what Bill Gates has earned in about the same time.
Improve yourselves, and defer to your corporate overlords. They know what's best. It's all supply and demand, all valid economics.
"Maybe the Bush administration will give these guys another tax cut"
And maybe water is wet. We all know what these supposed people are all about.
I wonder which price level will cause the revolt. Maybe $5.
That is quite funny considering America's best allies in that region (Saudi, Kuwait) are total dictators without any semblance of democracy, whereas Syria and Iran elected their presidents.
The prices of gas would climb so that exxon can continue to make the same or better profits .
If the average today was 15mpg at 3$ a gallon , at 30mpg it would rise to 6$+
If Exxon showed profits similar to WalMart, then they could have returned $30 billion back to the consumer in the form of lower prices. If all the oil companies did this, we would actually see some real change in gas prices, and Exxon would still have made a nice "little" profit of $10 billion for the year.
As far as the CEO compensation goes, see the previous paragraph, $400 million is a LOT of money, when you try to trivialize it by saying its not as much as "..." you are only showing how out of touch you are to middle class America.
Bill Gates created the company , he has the majority shares in the company . He is only worth x amount of money if the company performs . He gets a good pay don't get me wrong. however his big bucks are in the stock performance. Thats why his net worth varies day by day. He has also invested his money he has made over the years in other companys and land .
The other thing you fail to mention is that the Gate's give away hundreds of millions in donations a year . I highly doubt this guy will do anything of the sort.
me: you should know from college that it is very convenient to pick the data you want and ignore other data. I could choose that gas was $1.25/gal in 1982, and that my pay has increased 4X. I was around back in the 70's and we've had 30+ years to prepare for when demand really got higher than supply.
We have spent the last 30 years increasing our population, increasing the number of cars and drivers, expanding economies around the world increasing oil usage there, and pretty much driving the same large, powerful vehicles we did in the 70's though technology has improved their mpg (50%?).
you: Some people bought thier trucks nad suvs 2 or 3 years ago when gas was under 2$ now its over 3$ in some areas.
me: I really don't feel any sympathy for someone who buys any vehicle spending enough money that they can't afford to drive it, if it costs them an extra $500 - $1,000 per year. Do you think that was smart of them, to stretch their budget that much?
Also, seriously tell me are these people are hurting so much due to this $3/gal. still have cable, have cellphones, smoke, go to movies or dinner?
me: Wow! You need to look in the mirror. Do you know why Walmart and Exxon or any other company is in business? They are in business to create the maximum amount of wealth for the stockholders. The stockholders would not tolerate any executives who sold goods for less then the market bears, or gives away the majority of profits. Do you know what ROIC is? How does $10B profit for a company the size of Exxon compare to other companies?
you: ... $400 million is a LOT of money,
me: yes it is a lot of money, but it doesn't bother me anymore than George Steinbrenner giving A-Rod $200M, or anything else a company pays someone. I get upset if my money is being used to pay public-employees excessively. I could care less what GE, GM, Microsoft ... or any other company pays its employees (unless I own stock).
What are you talking about? So if the fleet average went down to 10 mpg would the price of gas go down to $2/gallon?
Some people bought thier trucks nad suvs 2 or 3 years ago when gas was under 2$ now its over 3$ in some areas. What are they going to do ? buy a new fuel efficent vechical ? That would assume they had the money .
I sympathize with your plight. Many people bought cars and vehicles that they enjoyed for the past few years...since gas was relatively a good deal for even $3.00.
On an inflation adjusted basis....gas was equal to $3.12 back in 1982.
However, now that gas will continue to climb with an overall upward slope ( though there will be many downward trends), it may be good to use hypermiler's techniques when driving.
take care...
They both earned the money, and they have to obligation to do anything with that money. Great if they want to donate, but I hold nothing against them if they don't donate.
Yes..it is good to hear from you , buddy.
What amazes me is the kneejerk reaction that many have...that points to one group...and then blame that group for the ills...it is always simpler for a scapegoat, rather than find out the true problem and work together to solve it.
There are 2 main components to fuel usage: 1) mpg, and 2) amount driven. If a 500hp BMW that gets 20 mpg drives 5,000 miles and a Prius getting 50mpg drives 15,000 miles they both use the same amount of gas. Both should pay the same tax amount. But our society appeases those who think the BMW is some evil and they do get hit with a gas-guzzler tax to discourage their purchase.
Yes....and the corollary to that fact that many here maintain is that "" my use is important and responsible, but your use is wasteful and will damage national security.""
Good thing most objective people, including scientists and policy makers, are taking most of this into consideration, instead of some kneejerk reaction to deduct $1000 from large vehicle users....
No, it is not easy to ignore the billions that gas companies are making...even Congress is trying to think of new ways to tax them....since we all gave away some nice land and seas for them to drill....and we gave them away at what then was relatively cheap prices....since prices back then was under $20 per gal.
While I understand the need to have cheaper gas for our people and economies sake, let it be known that when gas was low.....we just all capitalized on it...and drove incessantly..every single man and woman, almost, in AMerica. They were closing down wells and rigs. In Texas, whole towns were turned into ghost towns. I remember one town mayor offered a freee HOUSE on one acre to anyone who would move into town and stay 2 years...It was in LIFE magazine.
YOU: 1) The oil industry as a whole (exxon, bp amoco, shell, etc.) are all reporting record profits and earnings.
This is not 1 or 2 companies exploiting another companies weakness, this is exploitation of the entire populace.
This is not exploitation...but rise in value of their stock and services. WHen Gold hit $800/ ounce in late 1970s....it was a reaction due to Soviet invasion of afghanistan...not an exploitation by mining companies.
2) The federal government regulates prices of all other energy companies selling their product to the public. Natural gas and electricity are regulated, why not gas and oil?????
Here I kinda agree with you....but we were not complaining when gas was cheap and they were closing down rigs, were we ??
3) Just as a simple example, Wal Mart has lately been villified and crucified by many in the media and elsewhere. Yet Wal Mart shows profit of around $10 billion for the year, while Exxon profits $10 billion per quarter, and their total revenues are about the same.
Yes...if you sell widgets..and widgets cost only $1...and then all of sudden, they sell for $5...then they selll it at that price. Your clients have to pay the new $5 ,. or else you would sell to the one who is paying $5 , right ?
4) Somehow the Republicans in congress and the Bush Administration decided in their energy bill last year, that in the face of record profits and revenues, the federal government should provide $2 billion in corporate welfare to the oil companies for new exploration.
I agree that greed is bad. However, I think the higher prices now will encourage conservation while the bad does not hit the fan...and we still have oil. Higher prices increases drilling and research . Indeed...Canada's oil shale looks more economical everyday.
Something stinks here, and it probably is the complete unadulterated GREED exhibited by some of the wealthiest people in the country. I think a $400 million retirement package is insane, but Exxon feels it's just compensation to their former CEO.
Here I agree with you. But it is the legal contract that they had to retain top talent. The rise in profits has nothing to do with his talent...but he was at the helm at the right time...so he gets the spoils. I know....it stinks....
Maybe the movie "Wall Street" was a documentary. "How much is enough Gordon?"
"There is never enough money."
agree...and I sympathize. However, Bush does not want the prices to go way high..since that would damage the economy and people would go vote democratic. Democrats are the real winners here. They have no real candidate...but now they can put anyone in...due to disgust at gas prices during BUSH's regime.
My local prices seem to go up every time I pass the station ($3+) and it sickens me to know that others have us over a barrel, the oil barrel.
My car off the last tank of gas got 23mpg city and 28mpg highway.
I think the real culprits are closer to home....literally.
We all should take a good look in that mirror. If we all voted green and bought less gasoline....and took more walks...took more public transportation, then it would have been them middle east kingdoms begging for us to buy the oil.
But as a practical matter, oil and gasoline is bound to run out...no matter how we conserve. Making it more expensive is the free market way of forcing the people to conserve.
You think anyone would be posting about gasoline prices if it was still $1.20 ? ( which would make it cheaper than the 1982 inflation adjusted price of $3.12)
I fear that none of us are really willing to take a deep look at ourselves. I have been reading....and most posts blame SUvs, government, Bush, middle East, etc....
Who is the one addicted to the gas ? Who is the one in line to get their fix ???
Why do we blame our own addiction on other s ??
What a cycle - gouge the public, and not only does your salary increase, your share value increases as well.
Improve yourselves, and defer to your corporate overlords. They know what's best. It's all supply and demand, all valid economics.
"Maybe the Bush administration will give these guys another tax cut"
And maybe water is wet. We all know what these supposed people are all about.
I wonder which price level will cause the revolt. Maybe $5.
YOu spew the same venom many times, fintail. Why not stop the scapegoating and admit that we are alll at fault for the use of gas...a limited resource that about 1 billion more people are using now, compared to 20 years ago...when only 500 thousand were using it ?
You are very smart....but insist on ignoring the evidence.
Gas went down before....and you capitalized on it by driving more....going many places, I bet. The oil companies were suffering....but no one shed a tear....and we all benefited from capitalism and the administration that protected the artificially low prices that both democrats and republicans perpetuated. Now, when the table is turned...you blame capitalism ?
I understand your frustration at gas prices...but surely you see beyond the surface...and look at the addiction ?
We should all ...ALL....decrease our usage....that is the best way.
The best defense...is a good offense.
How can you get back at them ? It sounds like you are upset at the oil companies.
Decreasing your usage is the best way to go. IT is our out of touch usage ...over usage...in our culture, of this vanishing resource...that is causing the rise in prices.
If Oil was sold at $30 per barrel, then there would be many international buyers lined up to buy it. So prices increase to $40. But wait....that is not expensive for the newly rich India and China.... so they keep buying. For our oil traders must pay $40....but then it goes up....everyone is buying futures....
You go on vacation ? all the airline companies are buying futures at $50 or $60 /bbl so that they can safeguard their profits and remain competitive in the skies.......so prices go up more.....
Add in many people who want to safeguard their future gas supplies....and you get a run on oil / gas prices...
And it was Cheney who said "Deficits don't mater".
What "evidence"?
I assume you mean 500M were using it 20 yrs ago.
Oil companies "suffering"? You're being a bit dramatic, nobody will buy that. I guess today makes up for it. Input costs rise x, prices rise x^3. Nice. All legitimate market forces, I am sure.
Capitalism would have to be at fault for me to blame it. It's not capitalism, it's irresponsible elites and politicos. These aren't capitalists.
Certainly we should decrease usage. And we should hold the born-at-third-base cowards responsible for their actions.
I have no personal frustration with gas prices...they don't impact me much. I'll put a mere 100 miles on the car on the busiest week...a couple roadtrips per year...it doesn't impact me much. But the economic effects of a longterm bout of high/gouged prices will impact both you and me.
If Exxon showed profits similar to WalMart, then they could have returned $30 billion back to the consumer in the form of lower prices. If all the oil companies did this, we would actually see some real change in gas prices, and Exxon would still have made a nice "little" profit of $10 billion for the year.
What you said would be great...if it was a closed system...and if it were a two way street.
1- if oil were to be traded any lower...then the other newly rich countries would snatch it all up. Oil is sold on the open market....and if US traders who work for you and I do not buy it, then prices would go down...but since we are addicted to oil....we demand that our gas stations have gas....so they must buy....and compete with China and India.
I was there recently, in China. No matter where I went...there were humongous traffic jams. This may sound benign to you...but consider that a short 20 years ago...China did not even have a single private vehicle, and the only jams I saw were hundreds of bicycles....and China EXPORTED gasoline to us. I know this, cause I went on board many tankers with customs officials , to take samples before they offload.
Nowadays, they not only don't expoort to us...but they compete with us...and since we insist on buying cheap doodads made abroad...this strenghthened their reserves..so they can compete and buy gas at high prices.
we are shooting ourselves in the foot...all us consumers...but blaming others for what we did.
As far as the CEO compensation goes, see the previous paragraph, $400 million is a LOT of money, when you try to trivialize it by saying its not as much as "..." you are only showing how out of touch you are to middle class America.
I agree it is a lot of money. But his contract stipulated a percentage of money, based on earnings. Now if gasoline went down....China and India went back to bikes, and the company was in the red....then he would have taken home just the basic pay....which is still a million.
The middle class America...indeed..all of America...has to wake up and stop their own addiction. We should buy AMerican...even if it costs more. We should decrease usage of cars....
sigh....does anyone see this ???????
The late 1990s were real bad in the oil business. Very little drilling in Alaska. Many friends got laid off. I saw wages cut up to 25% for those that were maintaining the Alaska pipeline & infrastructure. Many older hands were given a buyout for early retirement. Now with high priced oil they cannot find enough rigs and oil field hands to do the work. One major company has had a call in for 25 diesel mechanics for a couple months. Most of the older guys are tired of being away from home for weeks at a time. They have to make the money while it is there. All the oil producing states and Canada are raking in the big tax dollars. I believe the State of Alaska gets about 20% of the oil revenue. The Feds get a bunch also where they are producing on Federal land. The AK Natives get a chunk as that is in their area.
I agree that gas is our addiction and we should deal with it. If a big SUV is your choice in vehicles fine. You knew from the window sticker that it is only going to get 15 MPG. I bought that GMC Hybrid truck to try and do a little. It gets maybe 15 MPG overall. Mostly around town. I don't drive it a lot. It has about 2000 miles in 10 months. It is there when I need it and that is fine with me. If gas goes to $5 I will not drive anymore or less. Just when I need it. I wish it had a little 6 Cylinder diesel that gets 25 MPG. That would be nice.
Nearterm, the driving public will be forced to cut down on unnecessary driving and will have to take measures to conserve as much as possible. And most people in the market for a new or used car will be looking at the gas efficiency as a major criteria.
exactly. We live in suburbs. Recent stats say our commutes have increased. It is too bad that this migration and infrastructure is based on cheap gasoline. We all knew it was going to increase...GAS is no longer going to be cheap. This was all relatively shortsighted.
This previous development has certainly been encouraged by the oil oligopoly. The burden of the pain will be pushed onto the masses
I don't know if gas companies can reach into our homes and house building and car buying habits and influence them. I agree that the masses will be hurt by the higher gas prices....but I have been saying on edmunds for 2 years that gas will increase and stay there.
Oil companies "suffering"? You're being a bit dramatic, nobody will buy that. I guess today makes up for it. Input costs rise x, prices rise x^3. Nice. All legitimate market forces, I am sure.
Yes...gas companies had to lay off tons of people and abandon many wells and rigs back after the 1970s oil embargo....there are Texas towns that offered a FREE home on one acre....nice new ones...to anyone who would move in and stay 2 years. That is how bad it was. You are right....recent events have made up for it...except for the laid off workers.
Capitalism would have to be at fault for me to blame it. It's not capitalism, it's irresponsible elites and politicos. These aren't capitalists.
Here I disagree and paradoxically , agree. The theory of capitalism is good, basically. However, when we blindly buy cheap items from another country...and make it powerful and strong, so that its inhabitants all can buy a car, and compete with us for the limited supply of oil...then it is capitalism...or more correctly, the exportation of democracy, capitalism, and globalism. The politicos are really not in charge....they are merely trying to micromanage what is already a big shift of money to China...who in turn buys more oil and makes it expensive for the rest of us.
I have no personal frustration with gas prices...they don't impact me much. I'll put a mere 100 miles on the car on the busiest week...a couple roadtrips per year...it doesn't impact me much.
Well, even though I can afford it..I think it is really bad for the economy....but with all the jobs going abroad....we are oblivious to what we are doing when we buy cheap foreign goods. They use that money to buy oil..to fuel their economy....and burns our economy even further. BTW...this is all not done intentionally by anyone or any group....but is merely the end result of globalism and our own consumerism.
But the economic effects of a longterm bout of high/gouged prices will impact both you and me.
here I agree with you entirely. Like I ,said, I feel funny. When I was in the taxi in the little known village Sichuan, stuck in traffic, and hearing the taxi driver non chalantly complain about the traffic....it was an epiphany...a shocking moment of truth. We met the enemy...and they are US.....
we are the cause.....we sped up the prices due to our buying and lifestyle.
sigh...
'
I really do not think it is gouging. Remember...Venezuela , Canada, Saudi Arabia, etc..all sell their oil on the market...at a price in which the market will bear.
Right now...we Americans are not willing to pay $70 / bbl. However, many nations have the means to pay this price...since they are newly rich. If we do not buy it...then they get it...and at a cheaper price. If we try to get it...and they try also...then you have competition...and price goes up. Add to that the geopolitico fears...and prices go up....
you are right...we have to find alternatives...as well as conserve.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I cannot find where he got $400 million. I think that was put out as media hype and many jumped on the bandwagon. This guy worked for Exxon 43 years. Headed it up for a long time and is not on the billionaires in America list. It does not sound like he was over compensated to me. Bill Gates hired an old college dropout buddy from Harvard and now he is in the top 15 billionaires in the USA.
Steven Ballmer
Rank: 11
Country: United States
Net Worth: $12.6 billion
Source: Microsoft
Age: 46
He has accumulated that fortune working for Microsoft. Where is the outrage over the high price for PC Software? I spent more on software last year than gas. Being a Network Specialist, it was as important to my job as gas is for anyone else going to work. I guess if Exxon had just stuffed it into a bank account over the years no one would have been the wiser.
All this garbage about oil barons getting rich. Name one US billionaire in the top 50 that got rich off producing oil. Oprah Winfrey has more money than any oil Co. CEO. It takes a sick mind to think she provided more for the common good than the guys that make sure there is gas flowing for our addiction.
good to hear from you....
Me :Gas went down before....and you capitalized on it by driving more....going many places, I bet. The oil companies were suffering....but no one shed a tear.
You :The late 1990s were real bad in the oil business. Very little drilling in Alaska. Many friends got laid off. I saw wages cut up to 25% for those that were maintaining the Alaska pipeline & infrastructure. Many older hands were given a buyout for early retirement. Now with high priced oil they cannot find enough rigs and oil field hands to do the work. One major company has had a call in for 25 diesel mechanics for a couple months. Most of the older guys are tired of being away from home for weeks at a time. They have to make the money while it is there. All the oil producing states and Canada are raking in the big tax dollars. I believe the State of Alaska gets about 20% of the oil revenue. The Feds get a bunch also where they are producing on Federal land. The AK Natives get a chunk as that is in their area.
Yes...the same thing happened all over the world....but again...we drivers took advantage of the cheap prices...and said not a word. We liked the cheap prices....and abused it. Now , when it is high...we are complaining ?????? I own no oil stock. I just want to be fair.
BTW, Alaska North Slope Crude production peaked back in 1988-89.....now it is much less...
I agree that gas is our addiction and we should deal with it. If a big SUV is your choice in vehicles fine. You knew from the window sticker that it is only going to get 15 MPG. I bought that GMC Hybrid truck to try and do a little. It gets maybe 15 MPG overall. Mostly around town. I don't drive it a lot. It has about 2000 miles in 10 months. It is there when I need it and that is fine with me. If gas goes to $5 I will not drive anymore or less. Just when I need it. I wish it had a little 6 Cylinder diesel that gets 25 MPG. That would be nice.
I agree.....we all make our choices...but we should also try to conserve when we can. Let us not idle the engine too long. Walk if possible. Group errands together. I also bought a minivan that shuts down 3 cylinders when not needed. We all must take a proactive step together.
take care..
I think it peaked out at about 2.1 million barrels per day. Now it runs close to 1 million. Many new wells have come on line. We are out West in the National Petroleum reserve a couple hundred miles drilling exploratory wells. I think the furthest producing wells are about 75 miles from Prudhoe Bay and the beginning of the Alaska Pipeline.
Whenever they start to produce ANWR they will get back to about 1.5 Million per day. I doubt they would go any higher than that. That is at least 10 years off. A lot of the feeder pipes are getting worn out and have to be replaced. That oil spill a couple months ago was a pipe that just wore too thin and burst out. they have had to replace at least 100 miles of the original pipeline due to wear. Crude oil can be very abrasive. It is not all lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills.
As taxpayers we should rather be concerned about how 400 billions were spend by some administration in a Mesopotamian venture with an ultimately doubtful ROI
So gas is still cheap in the US.
Public transportation is a solution, but while everybody will say it is inexistant, almost nobody will lobby to have such investment done.
yeah...I heard that section that burst was only 0.01 inch thick due to wearing....
and I thought crude oil was a lubricant...
I think we should start the exploratory drilling now....
or we can wait til gas hits $10 / gal....then do it.
someone said that we should burn other people's oil first....and I agree. I just hope there are not too many people also wanting the same piece of pie.
who cares that we eliminated a dictator?
who cares that we got rid of someone who mustard gassed his own people ?
People hear that he gassed his own people...then turn around and said Saddam does NOT have weapons of mass destruction ? I guess mustard gas is what you get after a day at the ballgame ?
what about the Saddam rape rooms ? the torture hotels ?
It is always easier to blame the US ? Saddam and his cronies only care about their people, that is why they are building nuclear reactors...?
gas is $3.08 for 87 today...but tomorrow it goes down 5 cents for customers at the local Union 76.
Rocky