Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

02discovery

http://members.aol.com/Spfnever/cups.jpg

I am presently negotiating the purchase of a 2002 SE Discovery. I should have all the particulars ironed out by Wednesday the latest. I'll let everyone know how it worked out and exactly what I ordered. Meanwhile, here is another amusing glance at these ridiculous cup holders. Consider the spill potential. "You best not be driving while you be drinking". Why don't we just change the vehicle's name to something like, "2002 Land Rover Dis-cup-ery"

Regards to all.

02

tincup47

The cupholders work very well while driving. I know you don't care for them, but feedback from U.S. customers is why they were developed. One reason they are that design was that it could be added without redesigning the console or dash, which would have been prohibitive from a cost standpoint. (The Brits think we are crazy to be drinking while we are driving anyway, this is not practised in the UK)

smarticus

Those cup holders are unreal. In the UK the most we might do is have a can of coke held in the standard drink holders. Even then you run the risk of being stopped by the police who (perhaps correctly) assume that anyone drinking whilst driving cannot possibly be keeping both hands on the wheel and both eyes on the road. And the idea of drinking a hot drink whilst driving - surely that could be absolutely lethal if it was accidentally dropped on yourself !! Perhaps the 2003 Discovery will have a fold out dinning room table fitted to the dash and a microwave oven in the glove box (and somewhere to take a leak whilst on the move) ?

agh15

would you please take some pictures of the navigation system and dvd player on the 2002 discovery.

thanks

02discovery

Dear Tincup, As I am in the process of finalizing my discovery order, I am unclear about a few minor things. I had asked you earlier about the rear air conditioning with regard to there being a separate evaporator. You stated that yes, there is a separate evaporator for the rear section. I noticed that there is only a switch to control fan speed in the rear. How would you control the temperature in the rear and if no rear passengers were on board, would I have to get out of the vehicle to go and turn the rear air conditioning on and off? This I wonder about, but, when it comes to skid plates I am all confused. First of all, are the skid plates manufactured and supplied by Land Rover or, are they made by private manufacturers for Land Rover? I am definitely not getting straight answers concerning these skid plates. If they are made by private manufacturers, is there a particular brand that I should look for? Also some dealers say two skid plates are enough, other dealers offer as many as seven different skid plates for the vehicle. What is the deal with all of this?

Thanks,
02

02discovery

If you are talking about the HSE model which I would assume you are not, I am being told by Land Rover that the HSE model is no longer going to be offered. I don't know why or how but for some reason they just decided not to produce it.

As stated in the 2002 Discovery brochure, "High-output Harmon Kardon 320-Watt audio system. 11 speakers including an amplified sub woofer. Package included Becker in dash CD player and GPS navigation system with active voice commands." is marked *late availability. One of the dealers with whom I have spoken says this should be made available starting in late December.

As stated in the 2002 Discovery brochure "Headliner-mounted DVD player with integrated LCD wide screen" is also marked *late availability.

I would be more than happy to take that particular photo for you but they are not available as of yet. In the mean while, in lieu of your photo I offer another picture of these hysterically funny, stoopid cup holders.

Sorry I couldn't help you at this point in time.

I'll be back at my Land Rover dealer this week if there is any other particular photo I can help you with. Don't hesitate to ask.

Regards to all.

02

http://members.aol.com/Spfnever/02cups.jpg

tincup47

There are two switches in the roof for the rear A/C. One is to activate it (a push button) then the fan speed (a sliding switch). Unfortunately ther is no provision for the rear passengers to control the temperature. The push button switch is reachable for me from the drivers seat, so turning it on and off wasn't a problem.
The Skid plates are made by a private manufacturer in the US. The number and type of skid plates you may require depends on what kind of off-roading you intend to do. I really can't recommend what you may need. The manufacturer that does ours is a small company that provides them just to us. I know there are several companies that supply skid plates, but don't know much about them.

nanuq

Amps... Ooooooooo yeah, warm is right! Could have used it over the weekend, we were winter camping and it hit -12F. Clear, cold and like Robert Service says, the "stars were dancing heel and toe". You folks in the Lower 48 don't know what you're missing!

Steve... have you heard Chicago Transit Authority on vinyl?? It absoltely obliterates the digital version. Mmmmmmmmmmm, yummy!

Skid plates... lots of people protect things like oil pans and the auto trans sump, some others go hogwild and put covers over even the diffs. Rock sliders are smart if you'll ever get in the situation where your breakover angle will possibly leave you high-centered. It saves your bodywork... the other hard parts are pretty well tucked up between the frame rails (at least on the DI they are). It's the "roll a wheel over a rock and drop straight down onto the sump" thing you want to avoid. Make sure your plates are perforated so mud/snow can get out.

Good luck! -Bob

02discovery

Thank you Mr.Tincup for your assistance concerning AC switch and skid plates. Yes, I did see that push switch to the left of the fan speed control but I did not realize what it was for.
Thanks,
02.

02discovery

Thanks Nanuq,(Bob), having put a hole in my Sable transmission pan this past summer, I will definitely be looking to avoid a repeat performance of that disaster! Sounds to me, because I do agree that everything else is more or less tucked up under the Discovery, that the transmission skid plate would be a prudent investment. I'll be taking your good advice on that one.
Thanks,
02.

smarticus

Does anyone have the stats for the turning circle on a Series II as compared to a Series I Disco. I strongly suspect the Series II has a far greater turning circle. Can this be adjusted by moving bump stops and the like. Whilst we really like the car it is a real pain in tight corners and small car parks.

tincup47

Discovery Series I had a 39.4 ft turning circle, Discovery Series II has a 39.0 ft turning circle. I think the main issue in parking between the 2 is that the Series II is 185.2 in long and the Series I is 178.7 inches long, with all that length at the back end of the vehicle as they both share the same 100 in wheelbase.

john1313

Just wondering if anyone has any estimate on lease figures for an non-ACE '01 SE. Are they discounting the '01 yet? I know that this depends heavily on credit, down, etc... Let's use $3k as deposit. Thanks.

John

nanuq

It may be that someone in your SII's storied past had big tires mounted, so had to run the bump stops out to prevent hitting the inner wheelwells.

I'd turn each stop in two turns and try it. Be careful not to get in too far, so your tire lugs begin to rub. If two turns isn't enough and you still have clearance, then give her two more.

Consider also the steering action under articulation; you're likely to hit things at full stop more often when you're severely articulated.

Good luck! -Bob

expert1

My Disco II definitely fits that bill. I wonder who buys these rigs and then complains about the maintenance costs. Oil changes are a snap with all the clearance under the rig. I just did my differentials last Saturday and it took less than 30 minutes for both, using only a crescent wrench for the plastic fill plug and a 1/2" socket handle for the drain. The oil was a little high, using Mobil 1 75/90W, but I won't have to do it again for 90K so the 4 quarts at $6.99 a quart isn't bad. Still can't detect any leaks, squacks, creaks, whistles, or squeaks. Oh, well maybe my Monday assemblers were finally sober by 9:30 pm. My wife loves it, with its tight turning radius, compared to our Burb. She loves the fact that she can see the whole road, has all the power, and now that the rains have come, control. No rear end spins and wiggles with this rig. I finally have a car that I can have my daughter and son drive and not worry about losing control in the bad weather. Its wide stance and increased weight allow it to hug the road, even without ACE. The traction control works flawlessly, even though you might have to replace the brake pads a little sooner. (another 30 minute job and pads at $60 per) Maybe I should open up a Landrover repair and service shop. Although, I would probably go out of business if all Rovers are as easy to work on and trouble free as mine. God Lucas, I Love Ya Man!!!

nanuq

You've got a stranglehold on her now, you've figured out some of the tricks. Did you notice the lug wrench (1-1/8") fits the oil drain bolt? There's another one.

About brake pads... I'd recommend nice soft aftermarket pads over stockers. You'll get better rotor wear and since they're so easy to change, you can replace them in 45 minutes (all 4 sets) pretty quick.

Regards, -Bob

Lord Lucas Disclaimer: My Rover runs like absolute hell, leaks incessantly and has parts falling off it like a trailer park in a tornado.

mrtoad3

Can anyone tell me if the DII with "adventure roof rack" will fit into a standard garage height?
Thanks

bakca

There is no "standard" garage that I know of. I suggest you measure yours. My DII has about 2" clear with the standard racks. I forgot the rear sunroof was open once and drove on in. It didn't hit but got my heart pounding when I realize it was open. I think the breakover from the driveway slope gives me a little spare clearance just where it is needed.

smarticus

I thought the series II was supposed to be wider than a series I so I didn't expect the roof rack from my old car to fit the new one. But it seems to. Ok so it seems a snug fit but fit it does. It is the Land Rover rack - so is the Series II the same width as the Series I ?

expert1

My first family road trip with my DII resulted in the same heart pounding as you bakca. Loaded up the whole family and drove to San Diego to our friends' condo. Pulled in the garage in the middle of the night unloaded the crew and our gear and retired for the night. Got up early and went for donuts. STOP!! Heart pounding!!! Realized soon enough that now my rig won't make it out of the garage. Loaded up the car with kids, had my wife hold the wood garage door up and proceeded to park the Rover outside for the remainder of the trip. Talk about road clearance and vehicle height. I can't imagine a rack on top that adds any more height to this rig.

bakca

expert1, funny story (only since I gather there was no damage).

I also am finding all the surface lots in downtown LA. A couple of times I have gone there for meetings and started to pull into a garage only to see a 6'-7" or 6'-9" headroom sign. I backed out and moved on. Yeah, I just fit but I sure won't trust that something isn't just a tad lower...like the headache bar at the entry.

norwegian143

Questions from a LR newbie: after changing my oil, where and how can one legally dispose of it? Also, where can you legally dispose of an old battery? Thanks

rkoesler

Well, it's been a long time since anyone has heard from me - I was a constant complainer back in 99 and early 00 because of all the horrible problems with my then new 99 DII - what a piece of crap. So, I bought a 00 Toyota, and then a 00 BMW, but I missed my LR, so I bought a 00 DII in June 00. Well, I now have 23000 miles and NOT ONE problem - it's been a perfect vehicle !!! Amazing how two almost identical cars can be so diffent.

"Tincup", you have been a great source of info on this board, and so have you, "nanuq" - thanks a lot to both of you.

I've done a lot of off-roading in my DII, and also a comparison with my Toy 4x4 truck and 4R, and the DII beats the hell out of both - doing the same terrain. I bought the SouthDown (?) dealer offered skid-plates for $ 2,000 (ouch !!) but what a lifesaver - they have taken some heavy hits with hardly a scratch - well worth the $$$.

My only complaint with the DII is the horrible approach angle - any fixes for that other than cutting or removing/replacing the bumper? Tincup, do you know where the Treck vehicles get their modifications? My dealer is of little help when it comes to off-road stuff.

Happy motoring to all of you !!

bigjoejack

Anybody know any good Land Rover sites with forums, pictures, and technical info? Something similar to "bimmer.org" or "acura-tl.com". Thanks.

stever

Try a google.com search, but if you run off any of our members, they'll be no treats for you tonight.

Steve
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expert1

What more do you need? With Tincup and Nanuq on this forum you don't have to look very far for any technical info., links, etc. I am sorry though that I might of ran off some of our early DI complainers. They had alot of horror stories to share. Although after 10K of total troublefree service and having a rig that is a dream to service I am pleased that other DII owners also share my same thoughts. If I had read some of the DI stories earlier I might of been a Trooper, Montero, or Tahoe owner right now. Luckily through comments of my brother-in-law and a couple of his friends, DII owners, I decided that Landrover was the only true 4X4 on the market. With our cabin at Donner Lake in California, snow 16'-23' a year, I was reluctant to travel during the bad weather days. My Burb and Trooper were fair weather 4X4s to be driven after the storms. I think that with my Rover I will be venturing up to the Lake more often this winter. Lord Lucas don't fail me now!!!!

bigjoejack

I didn't want to stir anything up. It just seems there are a ton of websites for evry other car but not much for Rovers. I hope to get rid of my Acura in the near future and get a 2002 DII. Does anyone know why Land Rover doesn't use HID headlights. I mean every other high end auto has them and they work incredibly well.

tincup47

It would probably be because they don't hold up well enough in off road situations. Land Rover product decisions have historically been made with true off-road ability as a priority. BMW had some influence in making them slightly more biased towards on-road performance, but there is still a strong feeling that off-road performance defines a Land Rover. Also most of the Land Rover product sold world wide do not have the same level of luxury trim that U.S. versions do, and development costs would drive up the price excessively on the few units that would actually get these.

nanuq

It may be just an artifact of the reputation Rover has had for years; people may simply be hypersensitive to any quirks when the logo is a green oval. However, it seems to me that other brands have as many or sometimes MORE problems than Rover.

For example... my brother and his wife had a Jeep Grand Cherokee. They put three transmissions in the thing and finally traded it in on a Ford Exploder. Which subsequently barfed a transmission. Now they have another Ford.

My buddy in Washington put a new trans into his Suburban, another friend blew the trans on his Exploder, it seems that Jeep, Chrysler and Ford are known for bad transmissions.

Toyota Four-Runners blow head gaskets at 100,000 miles, Blazers large and small rust out, almost every Subaru I've seen more than a few years old is running on 3 cylinders... the list goes on and on.

On the other hand, you never hear of a Rover blowing a transmission or transfer case or differential. Sometimes you'll lose a half-shaft if it's offroaded HARD. They rarely blow a head gasket. The suspension is bullet-proof, you're not bending anything except perhaps a trailing arm in the rear. You can cross-axle the Rover on two boulders and the doors still open correctly. The seats (up until '96) use THE highest grade leather available world-wide.

The electricals are quirky... I gotta hand you that. But once you sort the problems, they stay fixed... except in the case of corrosion in grounding points... and any truck used in the slop will develop those.

See? I think people are simply using a different measuring stick for "Rover" in general.

Just my $.02

nanuq

The best starting point is

www.discoweb.org

and go from there. There are literally dozens of sources for information! The land rover forum at www.lrx.com is another good one.

expert1

Again you are right on the mark! All I read here is complaints about squeaks, whistles and maintenance costs. Well, if you do your own work, maintenance costs are no higher than on any other vehicle. As for complaints about mechanical issues, search the other 4X4 forums if you want real costly horror stories.
A friend of ours tried to sell us their Grand Cherokee when they heard we were in the market for another 4X4. I politely declined when the wife announced that we should buy it because EVERYTHING was new at 90,000 miles. Tranny, engine work, new A/C the list went on and on. From the Grand Cherokee forum you can see that this is the norm. I will stay with my occassional squeak, squak, or whistle while I pass all the Tahoes, Jeeps, and Asian 4X4s up Northwoods Drive at Tahoe Donner this winter.

02discovery

Well, I did it. I ordered a 2002 Vienna Green Land Rover Discovery SE with the following options. Lightstone leather, cold climate package, performance package, rear air conditioning, running boards and an engine block heater. Also negotiated the removal of putrid oversized cup holders, to be replaced with a new 2001 console. Now the waiting begins. I am told that because I chose to have rear air conditioning in a five passenger vehicle, that I will have to wait at least until mid January for delivery. I would like to point out that rear air conditioning in the Land Rover Discovery does definitely consist of two separate evaporators.

While at my local Land Rover center I had the pleasure of meeting Product Support Representative Mr. Matthew M. Lynch. Mr. Lynch took the trouble to show me illustrated diagrams from some very large Land Rover repair manual depicting the two separate evaporators and their associated refrigerant lines. This was a concern to me because I have no problem paying $700.00 for a rear air conditioning unit but I have a very big problem paying 700.00 for a fan switch in the rear. Thank you Mr. Lynch for clarifying this . Orders for Kalahari's should begin to be taken sometime in early December, if anyone is interested. The only problem I did have was with the skid plates. As per Nanuq's advice, I tried to get a skid plate for the transmission housing and my dealer was under the impression that one was not available. Maybe, Mr. Tincup, you could help me out on this one, a part number or some knowledgeable recommendation.

Anyway, I'll be out here reading posts and waiting for my day to come when I go and pick up my 2002 Discovery. I guess this will give me plenty of time to come up with a name for her and something cool for a vanity plate.

Regards to all,

02.

nanuq

Alright! Welcome to the fold! Now we have to come up with a name for your truck. Tell us about your sports, your preferences, activities, all that. Where do you live, where do you like to go??

I love outdoor winter activites and they all involve snow and speed. My Rover is silver like a grey cloud so I named her "Anuqa" which means "wind" in Yupiq. And when she's running like ABSOLUTE HELL (Lord Lucas take note) I just remove the letter 'a' from the end, turning her into "Anuq" which is the name for what one might find on the ground behind a large, overfed nanuq (polar bear).

Isn't "lightstone" a bright white color? Perhaps the name "Kannik" fits? It's Yupiq (eskimo) for "Snowflake".

Congratulations! -Bob

ps: for Rover parts online try Atlantic-British, you can find them on any search enginge. I bet they have skid plates for the DII.

nanuq

Isn't 90k miles and total replacement a little unreasonable for a Jeep?? Perhaps not.

Go to www.lrx.com and ask Mike Green how many miles he has on his DI. I talked to him a year ago and I believe he was at 650,000 miles on the first rebuild.

tincup47

I'm crushed! Not believing me about the evaporator(just kidding). I know Matt Lynch quite well, he is a very good rep for us. Land Rover does not offer a transmission skid plate, as the transmission is tucked well up between the frame rails. Checking AtlanticBritish and Rovers North's latest catalogs, they don't offer them either. Safari Gard might be a possibility for the skid plate. Congrats on your new DII.

john1313

Well, my wife and I visited Land Rover of Stevens Creek here in San Jose, Ca. Checked out the new 2002 Disco II SE and fell in love. They had a Vienna Green in the display room which most likely will be my color of choice. I was very pleased to know that the '02 SE now come with the 18" wheel package without having to pay the ACE premium. Anyway, here is my problem...
We are expecting a baby and obviously will have to use a baby carrier/seat. I noticed that the rear doors do not open wide and a bit on the narrow side. Now to you fathers and mothers, how easily do you find getting the carrier in and out from the rear? Another concern is that my wife is on the short side and I just can't imagine her climbing the driver side with her big tummy. Since she will be the primary driver, this is a bit of a concern.

Overall, my LR experience has been pleasant so far. Our sales advisor, Gene, was top notch, very knowledgeable, and did not pressure us. What a relief! He went over all the safety features of the rig and I was quiet impressed with the construction and diagrams he showed us of the frame. We are scheduled to go back this weekend to test drive one. I will let you know how it goes. But for now, your thoughts/coments re: my concerns would be truly appreciated. Thank you.

burosky

Your concerns are quite understandable. Perhaps running boards will help your wife. My kids didn't need carseats anymore when I got mine so I can't speak to that. However, if you plan to keep this for the long haul, you might want to consider the 7 passenger model. Those jump seats sure come in handy at times. Although not as comfortable as the passenger seats, it does the job quite well. My little one loves to sit there. Do a search on this board. I believe there were postings regarding carseats here a while back. I must agree with you. I myself didn't get the car specifically for it's off-road capabilities. I went for it because of it's safety features. I feel so much better knowing that me and my family are in a very safe vehicle.

Happy rovering to you soon!

smarticus

John, we run a Series II Disco and have done so since our daughter was 6 months old. By that age she was in the rear seat so we never needed to fit the baby carrier in the front seat which would require the air bag to be disabled. In the rear our kid's seat fits beautifully (Britax Excelsior). Indeed the lady at Mothercare who supplied and showed us how to fit the seat said it was the most secure fit she had seen. Getting the child in and out is easy although you do lift her up quite high (and as she is getting heavier that can be a bit of an effort). However I find it far far easier on my back to lift the child up into the seat (whilst my back is straight) rather than lowering her into a seat in a normal saloon car. You do need to mind you dont bash her head on the door as you "post" her into the car. Once in the seat she loves it as the high perch gives her a great view of what is going on outside (she can see what mum and dad are up to in the front and all of the cows and sheep over the road side hedges - or should I say she could before foot & mouth wiped most of our local stocks out ! ACE also gives a supremely stable ride so the kid isn't thrown about in her seat (and very young kids with delicate necks really appreciate that. Rear seat air con is also a great help on steamy hot days (and we now have 2 of those a year). As for getting up into the drivers seat my wife reports no problems when she was 9 month pregnant (but she is 5ft 5. Side runners definitely help here but bear in mind the Series II has electric seats which can be lowered a few inches and the steering wheel is rack adjustable to put it up away from the bump. Hope this helps and all the best for the new arrivals (child and Landy).

john1313

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for the info and tips. I truly appreciate it. I guess now comes the hard part, negotiating the price. I hope to be back on this forum with the news of finally owning one. Thanks again.

tidester

john,

I hope to be back on this forum with the news of finally owning one.

We're looking forward to it!

tidester
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oceandweller

Just checking in, its been a long time! I'm in the exhaust replacement period, along with a few other things. She has noise and vibration issues that no one else seems to notice but me!! I talked my mechanic into taking her for a full 24 hours, that way he would be able to check her out. Of course, he didn't experience all my concerns, but he at least recognizes my them. I hate dealerships and/or mechanics who treat you as if you don't know your truck! Anyway, we gotta work on the drive shaft and then find out what is causing this "cricket-like sound" I hear when I am driving, it's worse when I am turning left---any ideas?? Well I hope all is well, and I must join you in with as an avenger against lucas.....my truck is sick, oh so sick! By the way, what is the deal with those awful cup holders?!?! *do i smell ford?* I drove the new Disco II and I was totally disappointed, if I can't get another DiscoI in 5 years, I'm turning to an old Series or a Defender. Take care!

smich

I ordered a LR Freelander but I've also been looking at the Jeep Liberty, and I'm having trouble making a decision. So, my questions to you good folks are:
1. Are you happy with LR vehicle, it's dependability,and dealer service?
2. Whats better, leather or fabric interior ? I have a 80 lb. Malamute so what will hold up better?

Any and all input will be very helpful and appreciated!
P.S. My first vehicle was a 1976 Jeep CJ5 and I currently drive a 1988 Honda Prelude SI. If I went with the LR, it would be my first LR......
Thanks All !

expert1

I had your same concerns with access into my rig. My wifes' friend is quite short and my Mom is quite old so getting in and out of my rig is a little difficult for both. They almost tore off my plastic rocker panels stepping on them to get in and out. I bought Manik nerf bars and problem solved. I went to my dealer to check out the running boards and they seemed a little flimsy and flexed too much. They also turn this robust rig into a pansy car. (my wifes' comment) I was afraid that they wouldn't last over time. The bars support 300# without any flex and look great. I could of stuck with my brother-in-laws comment that "anyone that has trouble getting into his rig doesn't deserve to ride in it."
Smich, my brother-in-law has a 2001 SE up at Lake Tahoe and he prefers my Duragrain interior to his leather. The mountain dirt, grime, and snow takes its toll. Also, I don't have to worry about the McDonalds shakes, gum and baby sweat like he does.

nanuq

Good morning! Gee it HAS been a long time, welcome back! I'm with you, I drove a DII for an extended period (while my beloved Anuqa was having new valves done) and I was not at all impressed. The DII just doesn't "fit" right any more. Some dark day in the far distant future when Anuqa finally goes to the great white north in the sky, I too will have to adopt a crusty Series.

So you have a cricket? How are your wheel bearings? The passenger side might be loose, letting the rotor chirp on the pads. Does it happen at all speeds? Does it go with road speed? Or is it with RPMs? I rode in a spanking new Toyota Land Cruiser and its owner was going nuts with a "cricket" sound that turned out to be air escaping the rear vents when the blower was on. Maybe you have a tired spot in your serpentine belt, and when turning hard left it's working your power steering pump hard, which aggravates the chirp? Or maybe the power steering pump mounts are just loose?

It's great to hear from you again... don't be a stranger!

-Bob

kbowen

2335 miles in a new DII (2K) with ACE from the bowels of LA to the FL keys. Obviously, mostly highway, and interstate at that, with some easy off roading in the everglades consisting of a deep rutted washed out road with a limestone base.

What a ball, except for one problem with the ACE light and a harrowing experience with a panic stop. I posted above that in high winds it seemed to me that the steering needed a "bit more attention", but responses were that no one else was having any problems. High winds existed most of the way but did not seem to be a problem on good road; on rutted road, or highway with worn tire impressions, the vehicle would move from side to side, or tend to follow the rut and I would have to gently nudge it out. I began to think it was the 18" tires that were the problem with their low profile. Then, the panic stop. A bunch of traffic in a caravan doing 75 when suddenly everybody is braking hard (still don't know why; everyone was approaching a crest and something happened on the other side that was gone by the time we got over). Anyway, I braked DII hard, it nose dived and the front end began shaking back and forth hard like a dog just getting out of the water. The wife--my sole companion--was screaming and I was praying. Thankfully, everyone came to a stop without anyone getting hit; and although the DII did maintain a true course when stopping (no fish tailing, etc.), that front end shaking back and forth like it did was harrowing to say the least.

Further down the road when I'm thinking this over, and still fighting the road/wind, I swear it feels just like under inflated tires, although before we left I double checked the pressure, 46psi rear and 28 front, cold.

To make a long story short, the next morning after a night's rest, I inflated the front tires to 37psi, cold, as it didn't seem to make any sense to have a 28 to 46 difference between the front and rear. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THAT MADE. Suddenly, tracking was great despite worn roadway and the wind--gusts around 30mph ment nothing. She ran true and pure, almost serene. I then tried a panic stop from 65mph (no one around) and it was totally different--no shaking of the front end--just a pure totally under control stop.

I notice the ride is a little stiffer around town, but it sure is worth it for the difference it makes on the highway. I will probably experiment with different pressures in the front to get a good balance, but in my opinion and experience, 28 is WAY TO LOW for the fronts, particular in a panic stop with that much weight being thrown forward.

As for the ACE problem, the YELLOW ACE light light kept coming on for no apparent reason periodically. I would pull off the road, turn off the ignition and restart and it would go out only to come on again about 50 or so miles later. I checked the fluid level and it was o.k. so I just kept on driving since the manual said to bring it to a dealer when convenient. Funny thing on the way back, though; it only come on once early on and when reset, it did not come on again. The system, by the way, seemed to be working well whether the light was on or off, as much as I could tell.

Otherwise, the trip was perfect. The sound system is superb
and easily "overpowers" wind noise when the dual sunroofs are open. I can't wait until next summer when we are due for some serious offroading--the reason we bought the thing in the first place after having a Grand Cherokee blow front drive shaft CV joints three times--in the New Mexico/Colorado/Utah areas. And, P.S., those new cup holders look awfully inviting for the the time we spend on the road getting there.

THREE QUESTIONS:

1. Anyone else have similar a tire experience?
2. Anyone have an idea why the ACE light is acting up?
3.Can I get the new cup holders installed on a 2001 console?

nanuq

The book gives you those differential pressures for several reasons; partly to give a smoother ride and partly to encourage understeer (instead of oversteer) in a decreasing radius corner. It's a lot safer for the average driver to scrub off speed with the front tires in a corner than to fight the back end with the throttle.

Now for my experience: I went with some REAL offroad tires once the stockers wore out. The ones I picked call for 80psi and that was awfully harsh on the road. I dropped all 4 tires to 55psi and I love how they work. No squirm, no deflection from ruts, they hold their max diameter when crawling, and no wiggles under hard braking.

It doesn't hurt anything to experiment, as you're doing. Just bear in mind that you're calling up different behaviours from the truck by doing so. Some will surprise you when you don't expect them.

Make sure you watch the tires as they wear... you should have even wear across the tread surface. Too much wear in the middle means you're overinflated and too much on the edges means the opposite. Also make sure to rotate front-to-rear every 5k miles, and to adjust the pressures when you do. This will delay the inevitable "cupping".

Happy Rovering! -Bob

tidester

nanuq,

Does the book say anything about tire pressures at high elevation?

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expert1

What is wrong with just inflating your tires to the psi/load capacity that is imprinted on the tire? I have always found this to be the best bet and has given me the longest wear. Remember again, this is a truck, not a smooth riding passenger car.

tincup47

The info on the tire is a maximum pressure, even the tire manufacturers do not recommend running them at that PSI. One thing to remember about tires is that the vehicle manufacturer tests the tires at different PSI ranges, and pick the best combinations of pressures for ride and handling performance.

kbowen

In answer to the above Q, the owner's manual says nothing about pressures at high altitude. Nanuq, your comments are appreciated and I would certainly like to get a tire more suited for off road than the stock 18" Wranglers. However selection is extremely limited in the 18" size and I don't want to go through the trouble and expense of having a 2nd set of 16inchers. I've looked at the !8" Michelins, but they look less aggressive that the Wranglers. Any suggestions?

As for Tincup's comment that the manufacturers test tire at various pressures, etc., this is true, but again I stress that 28psi in the front tires makes it handle like it has a flat and seems dangerous with high speed panic stops. Has anyone else experienced this sensation. And other than cornering as Nanuq said, does anyone know of any other adverse handling characteristics that could be expected with running the fronts at 37psi? Also tincup. what about the ACE light and cup holder question?