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Comments
Thanks!
My arguement with LR at this point will be that they need to open the transmission up and find the problem, we'll see how far I get. I think they'll resist and make me wait for a complete breakdown which I think is BS considering that I've been telling them about this since I picked the truck up a year ago.
I'll keep you updated on the situation.
Was wondering if stopgo might have a bad torque converter problem. Seems like something I had when the clutch was slipping in a manual. Don't they go bad after awhile? Or could he fix it by switching to a synthetic Transmission fluid?
I paid to have my auto trans fluid and filter changed, since on our DIs it's a "change the filter once and forget it" arrangement. Meaning, you will NEVER have to change the filter again. And it takes a hydraulic spreader to get the central frame crossmember out of there (though a scissors type floor jack will do it too). I paid the man to do the filter and put a new gasket in there, and now I just change the fluid myself. FWIW when the filter came out it looked absolutely brand new... no deposits *at all*. Be that as it may, it makes sense to do it once. If you do the filter yourself, put pieces of 2x4 against the frame rails before you jack them apart and be sure to spread a thick layer of Vaseline in the mating surfaces before you reinstall the cross member. Also be VERY careful not to damage an O2 sensor... they are expensive.
You're right, the truck should be so smooth in its shifting that you "hear" it more than you "feel" it. Try draining / replenishing the trans fluid and see if it smooths up some. You won't get ALL the fluid, there will remain some in the torque converter. But change it 2 or 3 times and it will get the vast majority. Being silly? Maybe, but "oil is cheaper than metal".
One trick you'll like as a manual trans driver: try running around town in '3' instead of 'D'. Keep it there until your speeds get up over 45 - 50mph. It will have much better response, and over a month or so the ECU will "learn" that pattern of behavior and your mileage really won't suffer much at all. It's better for your engine too. I often downshift to '3' and even '2' coming into corners... make sure you're slow enough when you do it.
Enjoy your truck! -Bob
SALPV1540YA432975
I am taking my disco in to get the oil changed, and am thinking about picking this up (I always wanted a range rover).
I didn't quite follow the "hydraulic spreader" reference. Are you saying that to change a D1 tranny filter, you need to get a hydraulic press down below to pry apart a frame rail? This is unbelievable. What do Rover dealers do when asked to change a tranny filter?
Are the frame rails laid out the same as on the D2? (Incidentally, is the chassis itself the same between D1 and D2? Is the tranny the same?)
-Bob
thanks
Or when you come around to the "hate" side of the love/hate equation:
PLEASE just TAKE this piece of British !#$%@#&^ and GET IT OUT OF MY SIGHT!!!
Somewhere in between there is your price.
Or for a slightly more scientific approach, you can try going to KBB.COM and run a Kelly Blue Book inquiry. Or doesn't our esteemed Edmunds host offer a similar service?
I personally factor in how long I expect the truck to last, which calculates out how many other trucks I WON'T have to buy, and consider that as part of what I'm buying.
My relatives here have all bought at LEAST two SUVs since I bought my Rover. Some are on their third vehicle in 6 years. All still have payments to make, and every single one of the trucks they've bought in the last year cost more than I paid for my Lady of a Certain Age. And mine still runs like new.
Obfuscation aside, I hope that helps? -Bob
There's Rover news in that discussion btw, Bob.
Steve, Host
I think the 96 is a better truck than some of the later ones. And I do agree with Bob, that it all depends how much you expect to get out of it. I plan to keep mine until it falls apart in about 20 years or more. I am thinking of giving it to my son as a High school Grad present. (He's 11 now) I think it will last as long as you are willing to maintain it. But again, it is a tinkerer's car. Not for someone who hates to get their hands dirty once in awhile. Unless you have the $$ and time to have LR do all your maintenance. So far I think I have changed out every light bulb except for the headlights. Including the one for the Auto Trans in the console. I do like the dual rear turn signals and tail lights though. Whoever designed the mud flaps needs to be shot. Especially the guy who decided to rivet them on instead of using bolts. I had to change both of my right ones out so I sawed the rivets out with a hacksaw and put bolts in.
I was wondering if anyone out there has the plastic headlight protectors that snap on. I am debating installing an A-Bar and the protectors, or the full Brush guard. Either one with the Safari Fog lights. Thoughts...
I hate to ask Tincup this because he has been a good friend to the board, but he is the expert. Is this frame rail spread the only way to do this? How many flat rate hours is this filter change in the Rover shop manual? Finally, is the Disco I and 2 frame the same?
Tincup, what say you?
I am in the process of negotiating the 60k maintenance--
TINCUP-If you'd be so generous with some free time-the VIN is
SALJY1247TA182225--
Can you see any past major mechanical issues?
thanks to all
By the way discoII is doing great at 61k-new thermostat and hoses before the winter.
Please disreguard my previous note about the range rover. It has already sold..
Thx
I appreciate the info--I'm going for it--
However bp/amoco seem to make her run rough-with poorer gas mileage---Anyone noticed that difference?
I've also noticed that most car dealers are using GALVES' book for trade in appraisals--From my research,they're almost 25% below most books--
A trade in should not be a "jack" for car dealers-make sure they don't steal your car.It's very common for these guys to steal a car for 10k and then turn around and list it for sale for 17k--
Just sharing some experiences--
Seriously, as a business person running a fairly large wholesale distribution company (I'm not a car dealer), I find nothing wrong with taking in a trade in for 10K and "listing" it for 17K.
I can easily imagine that the direct costs (repairs, detailing,legal paperwork, advertizing expenses, warranty exposure, etc.) would easily hit 2K. Then to use your example, if he "lists" it for 17K, after a commissioned sales person unloads it for 15K, the dealer has made a 20% gross profit. Wow. That my friend is no home run. Twenty points won't keep the lights on in most companies.
In fact even at Home Depot you would be hard pressed to find anything for less than a 30% gross profit margin.
If an individual thinks he can get more for his trade, go for it. Some of us can, some of us can't. (Incidentally, Secretary of State Colin Powell used to buy, fix up and resell Volvos as a hobby when he was in the Army. I'll bet that even he wasn't working on just 20 points.)
What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?
For the best price, do like Sect. Powell and sell it yourself.
Steve, Host
One guy told me once that the lojack my car had no value-(he was offering it for $700 in his showroom as an option).
Another guy told me the origial warranty left on a car (15mo/15kmiles) had no value of course-
but he was willing to sell me one for $3000--
It's amzing how a customer's add-ons never have any value until they're ready to resell the car.I REALLY FEEL GALVES DOES A GREAT JOB FOR THE DEALERS.
Galves, Edmund's, Kelly Blue book are just guides. They do not necessarily represent what a vehicle's current market value is. Check with the experts in the Edmund's Smart Shopper Forum "Real World Trade in Values". It can be very enlightening.
tidester, host
I know of no other industry except perhaps fresh food, where as the inventory ages it declines in value. So, when the dealer took in the car for 10K (again using your figure) and put 2k into repairs, detailing, etc. he now had 12K in an asset that was declining every day in value. That to me is scary. So, part of the reason for the "gross profit" is to cover the risk on some cars that after he trades for, invests in, then he can't sell for a number of weeks as they drift down in value or, with LR, as the season changes (I'd love to have lot full of used Disco's in Boston with heavy snow forecast for the next 10 days; maybe I wouldn't want the same inventory in early April).
In most businesses, mine included, if you make a mistake and buy too many of something or for the wrong price, in time you will be ok because hopefully prices will increase (at least that was the the lesson since WWII although not recently).
just bought a 99' DII W/ 42K miles. I kinda regret not doing this research before I bought the car but I just had to drive that car home last week.
anyway the VIN is SALTY1247XA209292 I was wondering if you could shed any light on my rovers history? and if there is anything special I should have checked when I bring it in around 50,000 miles (or if I should bring it in sooner?)
Thanks for any help you can provide and BTW this board is probably the best resource i have found! I truly appreciate the Rover xperts here!!!!!
Everyone knows someone who had one, or their cousin's neighbor's dentist's ex-wife's pool boy's daughter's pen pal once saw somebody who had one... and you know it was just the biggest POS they ever saw. Stories about Rovers are nearly always anecdotal, and if pressed it seems like nobody can ever come up with a first-hand problem. Or if there was a problem, they can't say Rover didn't bend over backward to make it right.
My Rover was plagued with the very demons from hell the first two years I owned her. The combined efforts of my tweaking and the shop mechanics working her over (I swear they had some chicken bones down there too) excorcized the last problem the DAY AFTER my warranty expired. And since then I have had zero trouble. Literally. Except the time I bashed a snow berm too hard and knocked an ABS sensor and had to push it back into place (grin). The fine lads at Land Rover Anchorage went the distance with me, and I am forever grateful. They went WAY beyond the call of duty and still invited me to the Christmas parties!
Lots of these horror stories are from the Bad Old Days when you had to carry tools in the boot to fix the beastie when she'd die in the dark, in the rain (it was always in the rain). But this is a new millenium and Rover (/BMW) has put literally untold millions into their quality control.
It used to be you could peel the hide off the back of the driver's seat and see the initials and signatures of all the lads who'd built it. They used to be almost completely hand built (mine was) and that was good... and bad. Did the lads from Solihull have a big party on the weekend? And was the truck made on Monday morning? Good luck. That gave rise to "Lord Lucas, Prince of Darkness" stories and the obligatory Lord Lucas Disclaimer you had to mutter every time you said something remotely kind about your Rover.
Seriously... a '99 DII is a very early Series II and that's a fine truck. It had tons of BMW influence and lots of drivetrain bits from the Range Rover. It had many fewer moving parts in the axles and such, and they eventually moved the electrics from Lucas to Bosch. If yours runs good and Tincup says it doesn't have anything chronically wrong with it... love it. Don't look back.
That said, you will experience a love/hate relationship with your truck. There's no middle ground with these beasties. They speak to you at a visceral level and when they fail you, it's a personal affront. When it's repeated you get hurt feelings... leading up to a hatred for the miserable POS. Until it's fixed, then you're in love again.
You'll also come up with a name for it. I've had 13 Hondas, 1 Jeep, 4 Fords and a Chrysler and I never named one of them. But I had named my Rover "Anuqa" within 6 months of buying her... that means "Wind" in Yup'iq eskimo.
Cheers! (you got to learn to say that now with a jaunty wave)
What is the largest size tires I can fit on my 96 Beast without having to do any mods? I am thinking something a bit wider than the 235 70/16's, but still want to keep the stock wheels and don't want to have to cut anywhere.
Does anyone have any info on the drivetrain that will be imported here?
Discovery
------------
235/70-16: Stock tire size.
205/80-16: Stock size in many other countries. same height as 235/70-16.
255/65-16: same height as stock
225/75-16: little taller than stock
245/70-16: little taller and wider than the stock size. reportedly, no need for lift, just minor trimming to fit those tires.
245/75-16: popular size for OME suspension lifted vehicles. require slight trimming on the rear wheel well fender, and may also call for adjustment on the steering bumpstops.
215/85-16: same height as 245/75-16. but narrower. seems to be preferred for the snow and mud.
265/70-16: about as tall as 245/75-16, but wider. will require more trimming and steering bump stops adjustments along with taller bump stops over the rear axle.
265/75-16: almost 32" tall. Same as stock NAS D90 tires. Will require even more trimming.
235/85-16: same height as 265/75-16 but narrower. And seems to be the most popular size with OME lift.
255/85-16: about 33" tall...very few people have fitted this size. Lots of butchering for this one.
285/75-16: about 33" also... but very very wide.
Discovery Series II
-------------------
255/65-16: Stock tire size.
255/70-16: Just a bit taller than stock.
265/75-16: Taller and wider than stock, possible to fit without lift. minor rubbing. Looks real balanced with mild OME lift.
285/75-16: even taller than 265/75-16, r requires a bit more lift than the regular OME lift. some have fitted OME751 from Discovery series I, and changed SLS sensor in the rear to achieve almost 3 inches. Gearing and shaft strenght become issues.
255/85-16: a bit taller than 285/75-15 but narrower. Gearing and shaft strenght become issues.
1. I wasn't wild about getting into the back seat, we don't have kids now, but hopefully we will have to deal with car seats within the next two years. Any oppinions?
2. Of course, we have heard the horror stories about upkeep etc., and I admittedly am not that good about keeping up cars. Am I going to have to walk on eggshells with this car- should I just go get a honda?
Here are the Vin #s, Tincup, can you help?
SALTW 12421A700138
(01 w/41K)
SALTY1243YA227414
(00 w/27K)
SALTY1242YA279350
(00 w/ 37K)
Thanks all for yor help!,
Mandy
As for the eggshells, Rovers and Gelandewagens are the two most durable consumer-spec SUVs out there; I doubt you'd like driving a Unimog very much. If you do the maintenance and keep the lubes fresh you can drive either until you're sick of it. Mine is 7 years old now and still drives like new. Literally.
Good luck with the vehicle search, and I'm rootin' for you and your hoped-for Mandy Junior / Juniorette!
I noticed what seemed to be a brown/yellow, rusty, power/dust that I was able to wipe away. On the outside of the windows I noticed small cracks in the seals around the windows. When I opened the back doors I noticed what looked to be small pockets of rust that had been painted over on the top portion of the interior wheel well. The back light grills/guards as well as the front grill have rust in certain areas.
I also noticed that there appears to be a dusty haze that can be wiped off of the car's exterior which looks like the same dust or haze I found around the interior window seals. Does this sound normal or might there be a serious rust problem with this particular vehicle.
I am really looking forward to purchasing this Discovery and am willing to work out some possible quirks, but I don't want to get myself into a major restoration job.
I would really appreciate some feed back on this.
Thanx again, in advance!
Jamia
Inside seals of the rear side windows – I had that reddish/brownish “dust” there a little bit also and it definitely was not rust. I would hazard a guess it was some sort of powder residue from the actual manufacturing of the rubber seals or something that came with it. Perhaps the original powder “aged” to the brown.
Outside seals of the rear side windows – Mine were cracking somewhat from age around the corners but I never noticed any water intrusion or rust around those windows. I did have water intrusion from the bottom left side of the rear door window and the seal was replaced under warranty and had no problems after that. In fact, the seal was replaced again a couple of years later under warranty when a corner cracked on the outside due to age/sun/previous install may have stressed that corner.
Side rear door wheel well – The day I sold my Disco, the buyer was going over her with a fine tooth comb and he found a small rust area just beginning to form in the weld area you refer to. Open the right rear door and look at the "joint” and sure as anything there it was. I was quite shocked as I had never seen rust on my Disco before. I have noticed on my new ’03 Disco that the joint in question has been redesigned so perhaps Rover had problems there.
Rear/front grills and lights – No problems at all there.
Dusty haze on exterior – You should admonish the current owner for not washing her Disco appropriately ;-) Seriously, that does not sound like a problem.
If you really have rust in the door areas, it is there to stay and will grow as it does on any auto, but as many on this board will attest to, if you get a good Disco, you will be very happy with the Rover experience.
Noted your previous post that this one is at 125K a bit high I would say. Don’t let your friendship with the owner stop you from negotiating the best deal if you decide to take the plunge.
Good luck!
Also, why did you sell your 96 considering it had such low milage? And what is a fair price for this year with 125k miles? Might I be better off purchasing a later model with far less miles?
Thanx again for your input, it is very much appreciated.
Jamia
Kevin
LRNA has recomended that the Air Flow Sensor be chaged out. So that's the first step they're taking. Will let you know how it goes.
Dave
When I was having the valve sticking problem the codes (sporadic misfire on one cylinder bank) pointed toward a whole lot of possible problems. They went down the list, changing all the parts and seeing no results. Finally there at the bottom of the list was the air mass flow sensor. Shining like a gold plated beacon on the sheet of paper. They bit the bullet and replaced it. Their price for the part was $1000. Guess what? That wasn't the problem.
It turned out to be a bad plate inside my aftermarket battery, falling over at times and killing the electrical system. Simple end to the saga of "another unreliable Rover".
So if they're willing to change that sensor, then they are holding nothing back to make you happy. Keep gentle pressure on them, and expect good results.