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What Are Your Thoughts on the Return of the Taurus/Sable?

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    How do you put something like the 500 out and think it looks and will sell better than the likes of 300? then try to get sales by calling it the Taurus again?

    I don't think that's the way it went - no doubt Ford WAS dumb to put the 500 out looking like it does. I don't think even Subaru could design an uglier car. However, it remains to be seen what they do with the makeover and rename project - it may look pretty hot. Give Alan a chance! It's actually an excellent car under there, just nobody knows it because of the unbelievably poor styling....Though I'm not in the market for one, I'm anxious to see the Bold Move, and hope it successful. I doubt it will be a blockbuster runaway hit - but they can only improve on them.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I never thought the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle were ugly; on the contrary, they looked ok, but were perhaps a little bland and were not available with some key upscale features right out of the gate. (Navigation System, Power Liftgate on the Freestyle, that 3.5L Duratec)

    The marketing campaign was never that hot either...

    These cars may not sell like hotcakes when they come out, but in Honda terms, this is simply an MMC, not a full redesign.

    I hope Ford knows that...
  • What DO you drive, barnie?

    A Five Hundred and a Freestyle. And before that, three Tauri (one of them a wagon).
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I don't think even Subaru could design an uglier car"

    Aw, c'mon Howard even me, the Frinch (Ford Grinch?), can see that Subaru can and almost always does design uglier vehicles than anyone else. The 500 I maintain is not ugly, it's just bland and boring and almost invisible.

    And Howard, the 08 Taurui are out there in pictures. It's not hard to find em. BON is a great place. But if u wanna know what they look like, I'll save u the trouble. Just picture the 500 with a Fusion grille. That's about it. Pretty bold eh?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "MMC, not a full redesign.

    I hope Ford knows that... "

    Sure Ford knows that. But that doesn't prevent their marketing department from calling them "All New", which they do. If called on it, they can sya 'The name - we meant the name.' They figure most car buyers have the IQ of a stick and so to them, it's a brand new Taurus. I dont think Ford can or wants to sell to car enthusiasts anymore, unless they're looking for the next back to the future Mustang knock off.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They figure most car buyers have the IQ of a stick

    GM has proven that for decades now....as in:

    "First ever G6". (Ya think?- Next version is second ever?)
    "All new trucks" in 1989. Well, yeah, if you don't count the motor, transmission, rear end and the frame.
    1995 - "GM is putting quality on the road"....Really......well, that worked out, didn't it?

    So, why shouldn't Ford assume the same? Heaven knows, they've perpetrated some of the same.

    What is BON and how can I access it?
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    I'm sorry and call me what you want but how boring is that!? A Freestyle and a 500! You are Stylefree!
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    I'll give Ford half on that. Ford's problem was they never improved any cars. They keep it (LS) for ten years and dropit and wonder why they are losing sales! So i give it to Alan. Learning from one mistake.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Howard;

    BON = blueovalnews .com of course. Lots of stuff Ford there and discussion forums as well. many of the posters are FOrd employees.

    Yeah, I hear ya about GM. Never liked their products, ever. Did buy a 97 Tahoe though and that was a tough truck. It saved my bacon once. That's the sum total of my GMs.

    BTW, new MT compares the new Tundra with the Silverado and picks the Chevy. One bit of good news on the American car front. Though it's interesting that they picked it mainly for 'value' as the Toyota is way overpriced. Funny, the Chevy probably costs a lot more to build, thanks UAW, yet is priced about $5000 less. Who's screwing who here now? Oh, and the Toyota has like a kids' toy-looking dashboard. The Chevy is 1000% better. But the toy is faster. But the Checvy gets better mpg. They both stop at 133ft from 60mph. That's like 2 car lengths quicker than the Edge or emm kay exx, Fords' newest gifts to ambulance chasers.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    but how boring is that!?

    About as boring as any of the other "competitors"
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    About as boring as any of the other "competitors"

    About everyone on this forum will tell you that 300/charger/GrandPrix/ Maxima aren't boring. Lucerne and Avalon aren't bad looking either-ten times better looking than 500.
    Is the 500 a bad looking car? No. Is it a good looking car? No. Here's my scale:
    ugly nothing Beautiful
    -10 ... 0 ... 10
    500 and freestyle get 0's. THey have no style. Montego get's a 2. It looks a little nice. Mercury gives it some nice touches. But there is no perk that makes me want this car. it has no pickup. Backseat is awesome but so is 300/Charger. Trunk is awesome, but charger/ Avalon/ Impala's aren't bad either. Ford just has a bland inexpensive car hear. (300's don't cost that much either...)
  • pnewbypnewby Posts: 277
    And using that analogy, 300 is a -8, Camry and Avalon are 0, the new model maybe a 1. Parked next to an '05 Camry in my '05 Freestyle, and suddenly saw exactly what Ford was doing on the syle, copying the best selling car as far as looks went. And the '07 restyle is less inovative than the minor changes we see on the '08 Taurus. The content changes (options, engine, etc.) seem much more significant than anything I saw on the Toyota "Restyle". Oh, and the Maxima and Pontiac aren't boring? Maybe fugly?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,073
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  • donl1donl1 Posts: 112
    Have to disagree on the rating of the Five Hundred and 300. I owned a 05 LTD AWD Five Hundred for almost a year and traded for a 06 300C AWD. Compliments and positive remarks were lopsidedly biased towards the Chrysler. And now having owned and drove both for almost 20K I have to agree. Not everyone will agree with me...that's fine...that's why they make so many different cars. But I've owned and drove both and the Chrysler is a better driver...IMO. ;)
  • danielj6danielj6 Posts: 285
    Although looks and style are subjective, the Ford 500 makes a statement without perhaps projecting an image of the driver, for those who are into impressing others.

    It is a sober, tall, imposing car that commands respect on the road. But most of all is a strong and safe car which it will be greatly improved when officially becomes the Taurus. This is also true for the soon to be the Montego.

    While owning a Sable wagon, I enjoyed, among other things, its utilitarian nature and comfort. It served me well and, to me was a serious and handsome vehicle which showed understated beauty. I never impressed anyone nor did I really care other peoples' comments and unsolicited opinions about it.

    I'm very optimistic and hopeful and that the new Taurus will break the Accord/Camry dynasty, although it (Taurus) apparently will compete with the Avalon and 300.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The Taurus name is a good move...to draw attention to a car that can stand out no other way. It's anonymous and it's boring, even if it performs just fine in a field of cars that do the same. Bottom line, it ain't gonna save Ford.

    I agree that the 1986 to 1995 Sable wagon had a certain understated je n'ai ce quoi, even though at the same time, it stood out. The 1996 on was awkwardly styled, even goofy. The weirdness of it eventually killed sales. The 2008 is understated again, but this time almost to the point of anonymity. Ford's in trouble, yet all they seem to be able to bring to the table are more yawns.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    In defense of the barnstormer, the Freestyle and the Five Hundred may be a little on the Camry-dull side, but I have great admiration and regard for both vehicles. Rather than being Mazda 6 underneath, these two cars are Volvo S-80 under there, which is a fine machine, and ergo; these two vehicles handle extremely well, are comfortable to sit in, and should be excellent long term cars, plus, they are as roomy and useful as they come. I think the barnstormer is practical and wise, if not a little on the dull side....
    Heck, excitement is overrated anyway....
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Well, of course Barnstormer made a good decision and is happy with his choice. The problem for Ford is most buyers are not nearly as practical as he. It doesn't matter how good a vehicle might be, if there are factors that make it less than a good seller.

    Ford needs something to sell really well...not just in numbers that might be profitable for that nameplate (like Fusion), but a real blockbuster, or a series of them. It is the only way the company is going to recover from the slide into oblivion that Bill and the board began several years ago.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    Wow, going from the AWD Five Hundred to an AWD 300C is like going from a horse & buggy to the starship Enterprise in terms of power. What are your thoughts regarding the power in the upcoming Taurus AWD with the 263 HP engine? I am certain that you are paying a mileage penalty going from the 200 HP 6 in the Five Hundred to the 340HP 8 in the 300C.
  • pnewbypnewby Posts: 277
    As the owner of a Freestyle, I don't really care what they call it, it is simply a great vehicle. And the main reason I purchased is for the AWD and 5 star ratings from all test sources.
    Are all 300Cs with AWD (didn't even know they had that), V8s? Didn't see anything in the post stating that. It would seem that too much power on a vehicle that had a low ground clearance, would be counter productive. It would only need that much power for serious off road or towing capabilities. And I don't think anyone would argue that the 500, Freestyle, Taurus or 300C are either of the above.
    :surprise:
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 112
    Smiles per gallon offset the mpg difference. The Five Hundred was a disappointment mileage wise. Most of the time less than 25 in the summer and too many tanks of 17 to 18 mpg in the winter with the Ford. 23 is about the best I've ever seen with the Chrysler but it's hard to stay out of the gas pedal with the Hemi. The 300 is just a much better all around car...IMO. Absolutely no interest in the new "Taurus" with the 3.5. I'm afraid the Five Hundred soured me on Ford's for the immediate future. And I've purchased more new Fords in the past than any other brand.
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 112
    The 300 with AWD came with either the 3.5 V-6 or the 5.7 V-8. As far as too much power...I've yet to experience that with any vehicle I've ever owned.
  • I just can't believe what FOMOCO is doing! They are not listening to their loyal buyers or they would have their head out of the sand & start doing the things they need to do to turn the business around! I find it very stupid to take the Ford 500 & rebadge it and call it the "new" Taurus! Why did they stop making the Taurus in the 1st place? The old Taurus is far better looking than the 500 or the Fusion!!
    Toyota is sure leading the way, I think our US automakers should do a complete study on what the Toyota people are doing right & what Ford is doing wrong!! I am on my 27th Ford & right now when I am getting ready to buy, I really see nothing that Ford has that really interests me!! SAD!!!! :(
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I hear what you are saying, and it will be a long time before all the bad feelings engendered by Ford squandering its lead and market share of just a few years ago with arrogantly out of touch business decisions. An ineffective and rubberstamping board was part of it, but I digress.

    In the meantime consider that even though the 500 is plainer than the old Taurus was, it is a better vehicle. I wouldn't buy a 2007, but with the better engine, sound deadening and improved interior of the 2008 Taurus, it may be worth a look to you. The Fusion too. It offers more hp than Taurus ever did (save the SHO which never sold worth a darn anyway). And the Fusion has more current styling, even if you did prefer the ovoid Taurus.

    And if sedans are no longer your thing, how about the Edge or the 2008 Escape? Ford has a bunch of duds in the stable yet, but they are cleaning up. They need to speed up new model intros....a lot. But the Crown Vic will only be for fleets next year (Yeah!...I cannot believe they have sold that dinosaur for this long without an update, but they did...for shame). But do drive a Fusion and then see what you think. If you wait another month, you can compare it to the Taurus too.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    In what sense interior of ‘08Taurus/Sable is better than interior of 500/Motego? Lately Ford figured out the way to make expensive interiors that look cheap. It is probably Ford’s new know-how that differentiates it from other automakers.
  • fordenvyfordenvy Posts: 72
    They sold more Crown Vics then Five Hundreds. Hopefully they will sell more taurus' then Crown Vics in just the last 6 months of this year. That should be their goal.

    Those Grand Marquis' though are so cheap, even if they are outdated, you can get a really good deal on them. We payed 10k for one that was one year old with 28k miles on it.
  • fomoconafomocona Posts: 19
    Ford is listening and appreciates your loyalty. The Taurus has great name recognition and with the revamped 2008 model year, it just made sense. Back in February of this year, Ford CEO, Alan Mullaly stated that "In hindsight, we would have just made the Five Hundred the new version of the Taurus. It's clear to me now that if I'd been here earlier we'd have just announced it as the newest model of the Taurus family." Further the Taurus has "80% instant name recognition; only 40%, even after all the work we've done to date, recognize the Five Hundred." Thanks again for your loyalty.
  • dgcownerdgcowner Posts: 4
    I like your write-up and agree that the 2008 Taurus is a better vehicle with enhanced safety, and is roomier. I own a 2005 Taurus wagon and 1990 Taurus sedan and I really like both vehicles but the 500/Freestyle is a more advanced platform.

    On another note, Ford Fusion's built after January 2007 have enhanced front structures and perform better in the both the front offset and side impact crash tests by the Insurance Institute. The link is : linkhttp://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=561.
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Posts: 228
    I think Ford missed a naming opportunity by not calling the new Taurus the "Taurus 500" (or Five Hundred).
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Posts: 55
    In fairness to Ford, the new 2008 Taurus is more than just a rebadged 2007 Ford 500. The addition of the new modern engine and the new six-speed automatic transmission means the other half of an all new car finally arrived. The body and interior may be recognizable derivations of the 500, but the new drive train is transformational and deserves a new, more marketable name. I could have gone with Galaxy but Taurus works too. The recent quality awards give Ford a chance to reboot expectations and marketing. Ford should do so.

    The interior space and ride are compelling reasons to consider Ford's new Taurus. Ford has to overcome the fear that reliability and quality will be less than the perceived "safe" bets and must assure consumers Ford will be around to back its product.

    I'm an extremely pleased 2005 Ford Focus ST owner. It's been bulletproof and delivered everything I wanted and more. It's my least expensive car in the fleet and my favorite to drive. It literally makes me grin every time I drive it. Ford quality is better than the current consumer perception of Ford quality. Ford manufacturing is doing something right. Ford product development I'm still concerned about. The 2008 Ford Focus doesn't impress me as a styling upgrade. However, the 2008 Ford Taurus is a step up over the prior 500.

    I think the Taurus renaming marketing bet will pan out and I like that CEO Mulally didn't waste time making the decision. Ford's dug a deep hole but Mulally has good instincts and has stopped the digging. The new Taurus is at least one rung up on the ladder out.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The new Taurus is a better car. In addition to the new engine and transmission, it is quieter and stability control is available. However, it has the same body as the 500--which is not going to distinguish it much out there. And to my eye, the interpretation of the new Ford 3 bar grill is plain like the rest of the styling...nowhere near as distinctive as the Taurus X, Edge and Fusion. But it is an improvement over the 500 nonetheless. It will be promoted better. Hopefully, better sales will follow.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    IMHO, these are still cars for older peeps.

    Empty nesters wanting to get out of the "family hauler".

    Young execs and professionals will either get a Fusion to save a few or the Lincoln MKZ. Or an Acura TSX.

    Yes the Taurus is a premium large sedan, but who wants those anymore?

    I wish Ford would spend a few bucks to upgrade the Edge interior cause that is what will sell.

    Mark.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    Your remarks indicate you are not aware of the variety of people and tastes out there. So we all are suposed to be in SUVs?? Get real.
  • otis12otis12 Posts: 171
    I doubt if I fit the demographic....44, no kids, but I want a large sedan. A big comfy highway cruiser. I think the '08 Taurus is what i will test drive and perhaps buy.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    Passed thru the dealer today and spotted a 2008 black Taurus! I went in and gave a quick glance, since I was in a rush. I compared it to a 500 which was standing nearby. Here is what I found, stuff that you can actually SEE with your eyes, besides other under-the-hood improvements, as engine/tranny upgrade, stability control and quieter interior.

    First, of course, comes the 3-bar chrome grill, but along with that, the newly designed headlamps matches beautifully to the grille, and is no doubt one of the better designed headlamps from Ford - much better than the Fusion and Edge, IMO. The same is true on the taillamps, which is also matching to the front lamps, giving an overall better appearance. The fog lamps is nicely done as well.

    Other exterior changes: A "porthole" (am I saying it right?) on the top/side of the hood, similar to recent Buick's; They eliminated the so-called side "divider-bar" below the side windows, so the entire side door, from window to bottom, looks as one big chunk. I think the 500 looked better in that aspect. Also, a big piece of chrome on the trunk was added. The outside mirrors is a little smaller, but nicer and have better fit. The dual tailpipes are much superior to the 500.

    On the interior, it looks almost identical to the boring and dated 500, but there is some improvements. They got rid of those sick signal/wiper stalks from the 500. There is now just one regular stalk on the left, for the wipers. No right stalk anymore, as the Japanese vehicles. I personally like it better that way (on the left). So it looks much cleaner than in the 500.

    The rest of the center stack, stays the same. The outdated stereo system, with old-tech LCD and un-intuitive controls carry over, and so are the temperature controls. Too bad, because Ford really needs to improve with that design. The 2008 Mariner/Escape seems to be a step in the right direction, and Ford should definitely be heading that way. The gauges also needs tweaking. And some controls sits too low.

    To sum it up, it looks much better, and will definitely be better than the Five Hundred it is replacing. But the interior still needs improvement. The Impala looks much better. Leave alone the Avalon.
  • jimmerzjimmerz Posts: 1
    Personally, I am very GLAD I have the Ford Five Hundred. (2006 SEL, new owner)

    I Can not STAND those 2 names, Taurus and Sable. It blows my mind that people would rather have a Taurus instead of Five Hundred? (I mean the name of course, same car!)

    I would have never bought my car if it was still called the Taurus. JMHO!
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Ihas a 1987 Taurus and it got very good fuel mileage, 28 to 32 from a 5 adult car wit a V-6 engine that had plenty of get and go. We had it for 175,000 miles and our son took it into the Air Force and he drove it until 250,000 miles and sold it for $2,000.

    Just as a note the transmission was rebuilt 3 times and we did change engines for a used one with less than 30,000 miles at 120,00 miles. We got the trans, and engine for $1,250. from a wrecked Taurus.
    So the name Taurus had some great value messages for me. I have owned 13 Chrysler made vehicles, but is Ford makes the Taurus with AWD I would look real close at considering making a change.
    At first I thought the name change was not a good idea, but I have changed.

    farout
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    but is Ford makes the Taurus with AWD

    You can get the Five Hundred with AWD . . and that ensures you also get the awesome CVT, too!
  • I don't think Ford bothered to match their competition with cabin air filtration on the new Taurus. Once you have it, you don't want to do with out it. Otherwise, the car has lots of attributes.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    That may be true for many people, but not me. I had that on an old (1995) Mercury Mystique. Didn't make any difference to me. None. Just another filter to change. I mean, how much good does it do if you open a window or the sunroof? But to each his or her own. Just would never be a deal breaker for me.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    I'm the same way . . never noticed a difference with vehicles that had a HEPA filter vs. those that didn't.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    barnstomer64: I have a Jeep Compass with the CVT, and it has 7,500 miles on it. The proof that these CVT transmissions are really good is yet to be proved by me. I like it but will it out last the older 5 speed automatics? Now that's the question.

    farout
  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    Gotta say for what mho is worth. The new taurus looks real good in person. My local dealer had three for about two weeks..they are gone now. They just got a new limited black one..so I don't expect it to last. Thats pretty quick..considering these things have not really been marketed well yet. I think the name may have something to do with it..like...."so I need a new family car..oh yeah..we have the new taurus cars in..really..Ford still makes a taurus..what do they look like?...get my point? Also..same 6 500s are sitting on the lot that were there about 2 months ago. They just look so bad next to a new taurus..its amazing. See to me..the name 500 was all wrong..because chrsyler had the 300. The 300 was a very sexy retro like vehicle..were as the 500 was very plain jane. If ford wanted to make a 500...it should have looked like a modern version of a fairlane or something a little more aggressive. jmho though...to bad Ford can't match Toyota's interior or build quality...caz from were I'm looking..the Taurus looks a lot more interesting from the outside than a ho-hum avalon...
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    2008 Taurus fans, if ride and road noise are important priorities, you will be happier in the SEL than the Limited. I have driven both.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Tires play a huge role in ride and road noise. The SEL has 17 inchers and the Limited has 18s with a lower profile. I am not sure what brand is used. If a buyer really liked the Limited but preferred the ride of the SEL, they could probably work out a tire/wheel swap with the dealer.

    I do not believe there are any suspension differences between the two models.
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 112
    I had a 05' AWD LTD Five Hundred with 18" Pirelli P6's and they were pretty noisy. Maybe it's the same deal.
  • I love the front of the new Taurus! But the back of it looks exactly like the back of the 500. Whats going on there?
  • The Avalon is no ho-hum, that car can move.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Although there are significant engineering upgrades, it is the 500 body with a few mid-cycle updates. The 500 and Taurus not only look exactly the same from the back, but also when viewed from the side or from a balcony (top). Given the miniscule styling change, the new engine and better NVH characteristics, along with the Taurus name, will carry the water for this model.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    The camel interior on the Sable comes with absolutely the WORST looking fake wood I ever saw. Its almost yellow to match the seats and it hardly even attempts to look like anything other than colored plastic.

    What makes it worse is this band of yellow runs accross the charcoal gray dash!

    Attention ALLAN M. FIND THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE AND FIRE THEM.

    Mark
This discussion has been closed.