Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

lott42

I have a 2000 5-speed OB that I love. I do get the occasional teasing from my girlfriend though. I originally wanted to get a 2000 Forester until I drove the OB. I felt the OB was "smoother" to drive and the Forester was "sporty". I chose the compliant ride because of miles I put on a car.

My question. Do you guys/girls feel like the 2003-8 Forester's ride will be closer to that of the OB???

Thanks, Larry

recumbentdan

rsholland wrote:
> If you can wait a few months, prices
> should come down,

Another post above stated one dealer was selling 2002s below dealer invoice, undoubtedly coming out OK because of incentives or holdbacks or some other financial arrangement. If the 03 Forester is going to drop $2000 in a couple of months, I'm inclined to wait. If its going to drop $300 - $400 in a couple of months, I'm inclined to bite now. My old beater has 136,000+ miles on it. Its a domestic so it could croak at any moment.

- recumbentdan

kohall

Maybe it is too soon to tell (only 1000 miles on my 2003 XS Premium, Java Black), but I don't see the brake dust collecting on my aluminum wheels - and I like it! My domestic car needs a thorough cleaning every week to rid the wheels of the black stuff, but not the Forester. Hopefully, this means that I will have long life on the brake pads!

qmarker

First, thank YOU!! Yes, you are all a nice group of people and I appreciate the warm welcome and the help to come. I will try not to be a pest.

Chicago - no Foresters??? Hard to believe. I am just outside of Milwaukee (North) and got a call from the dealer yesterday that two had come in on a truck. He said they were surprised & did not know they were arriving. Of course I did go to look at them. They had no prices but wanted to sell me one anyway. They received a gold and a silver and I want a white one. They are searching for one.

Today, the dealer called back to say the brochures had come in. I will go get one tomorrow so I can study it.

I also wrote to Edmunds and to MSN Carpoint to ask why they had no info posted. MSN nicely answered to say they were turning it over to their research team.

I am wondering as a lone 'senior woman' if I am getting a decent price quote. The dealer is quoting absolute straight MSRP costs all the way. I gave them the VanBortel printed web page and there is no discount of any kind. I am pondering this.

Oh, and yes they still have 2002's in stock. They did not have the 2003 on the floor but in the back. Would have given me a great deal on a 2002 but I have been waiting less than a month for the 2003 after test driving the 2002.

Donna

qmarker

Is that the correct term? When you were listing the improvments, no one mentioned it. I must tell you that it lifts and closes like a dream. When I test drove the 2002, it was no where as easy to lift and close it. The 2003 I looked at seemed to literally "float open and close". I am just 5"2" and it was very nice to deal with.

Donna

nygreg

Go to Costco. That's right, Costco. I was there tonight and to my surprise and amazement there was a blue, 03 Forester XS on display with door open! Of course, my daughter and I went to town. Overall, I like it very much. Similar look as 02. Tons of head room. Definitely more room in the back seat. Like the dash very much, especially the brushed Al. Controls and compartments seem of high quality. Also liked the metallic "C" pillar. The only thing I thought to improve it might be to rake the windshield a little more to give it a little more sportier look. Definitely a winner (especially in red). BTW, this was in Danbury CT. Down the road is Colonial Subaru which claims to be the largest Subaru dealer in New England. Size counts?

Greg

storyteller

Donna: It takes time to enter pricing data into the Edmunds system. Even then, keep in mind that there are very significant regional variations in how competitively Subies are priced. Best prices (best sales & highest competition) are in the northeast. You can expect to pay MSRP at many or even most dealerships around the country until maybe later in the summer.

While dealers will be talking about great deals on the 2002s, I'd wait if I were you. They aren't going to give those older cars away, and meanwhile the new ones really have a whole lot more to offer (better styling, lighter weight, better safety, more convenience, higher resale value, better content overall). You will get your best price in two ways: 1) check prices at several dealerships (not just the closest one) and let them know you are comparison shopping, and 2) just wait them out until the initial excitement subsides and prices come down a bit.

You're no pest. Ask for all the help you want.

Steve

nygreg

I agree with Steve. Have some patience, those MSRP prices will not hold very long, especially with the competition out there (RAV4, CRV, Escape, etc). I expect the selling prices to drop to within $500 of invoice by fall.

Greg

peterson10

I've been looking further into that ECU reprogramming recall. My dealer tells me that a select number of Foresters are being targeted (BTW, mine is a 5 speed). The campaign # is WWF-89. They couldn't tell me what was being corrected, but I'd love to know. Anyone out there know how to track down this sort of info? Patti?

YetAnotherDave

ateixeira

Yeah, the tail gate is easier to lift and close, and I believe the opening is wider.

Welcome to the Crew, Donna. Do not pay MSRP, fitzmall.com already has 2003s for $400 over invoice (yes, they're publishing invoice prices already). They even have one premium with leather for $100 over invoice! That's tempting even for me, and I'm not shopping! It's automatic, though.

If you are anywhere near DC, I would make the trip to Rockville to buy it there, they are great.

OE or aftermarket? I would get the security system OE, but speakers aftermarket. Just my opinion.

EPS: we've used our Forester to haul around a toddler and all her stuff for almost 3 years now. Our stroller fits easily, and the seat height is great for those infant carrier seats.

We bought another Subie for my wife, now that our 2nd kid is coming (July). She chose a Legacy L wagon, and to be honest the cargo area has a much bigger floor space, even though it's not as tall. Still, we could fit a stroller and still change a diaper under cover from the rain! So consider those if you need more space.

Steve: I know what you mean about the value, that's why we bought one!

We have a YellowBikeDon, a RecumbantDan, all we need now is a TandemDonna! ;-)

2002s carry up to $500 in incentives, so don't be surprised to see some for under invoice as the 2003s start to arrive.

-juice

cat_and_bear

Donna,

It is always a pain to negotiate with a dealer which does not have much stock available. One thing you may try is to get the car from an out of state dealer. You can call VanBortel and see if they can sell you a car. I know Scott of Subaru.net can do this (he's a fleet manager of a dealer in Minnesota.) What they will do is to divert the delivery truck to one of your local dealers and have it do all of the prep work. Yes, you have to pay a little more for the dealers prep work but after adding everything up, you will still get a decent deal, much better than paying MSRP locally. This will work out the best if you do not need any financing. The local dealer will handle all of the maintenance/service work in the future. Sure, this can be a riskier path to take but based on Subaru's reliability record, I think you will not have to worry much about defects and recalls...etc.

The worst price quote I got a month ago is cost + 5%. It is ridiculous to pay MSRP for the '03. I know Scott can do a little better than that and surely, Van Bortel is even better. Looks like the economy will not recover any time soon. Many auto makers are busy pumping out cars these days based on speculations. I believe later this year you will see dealers everywhere overstuffed with inventory. I am even worried that Subaru may not be able to make its '03 Forester sales goal this year.

Juice,

Just checked the fitzmall website. The invoice prices posted are higher than the numbers I got here. Be careful with their numbers.

Larry,

OB is based on the Legacy chassis which has a longer wheelbase. If you want comfort, nothing can beat a longer wheelbase.

'03s in Chicago,

Obviously dealers there have been hiding '03s in the back yard for a while.

Manual '03s.

It's funny that I have seen plenty of them here. 3 out of first 8 cars the dealer got are manual. When checking the prep work done by the dealer, we saw one lady was about to test drive a red manual XS premium.

-bear

ateixeira

Fitz includes all their fees up front, so at least you know what the bottom line is.

For our 2002 Legacy, we got $850 under invoice (a $750 incentive was in place). Their numbers matched Edmunds and ConsumerGuide.

Definitely shop around, though.

-juice

cat_and_bear

Mmm... the only fee you should pay the dealer is the documentation fee. Fitz definitely charges things more than that. The numbers posted on Van Bortel's site are the ones I got.

-bear

ateixeira

What's their web address? I'd be curious to compare invoice prices, and then compare their price.

-juice

storyteller

http://www.vanbortelsubaru.com/

Steve

cat_and_bear

It's www.vanbortelsubaru.com. Please note that they list $10 more for the destination charge.

For your reference, the XS Auto Premium we got has the options: Security upgrade, auto dimming mirror, rear bumper cover, tailpipe cover, tweeter, upgraded speakers. The invoice is 23409, freight included. I know... it is even lower than Van Bortel's... I know the bumper cover and tailpipe cover are not included in the premium package because the pricing lable on the window says so.

ateixeira

Seems like a good site, and it's nice to have options!

It's hard to comparison shop, because fitz' prices include the options. Still, you can get an XS Premium auto with leather for as little as $24,280, while an XS Premium auto at VB runs $24,589.

That's close enough that I wouldn't drive down from NY, but since Fitz is local I'd pick them. Also, since I've purchased there, the only thing they added was tax and tags. The dealer collected $50 to do the tags, but I'd pay that any day versus spending a day at the MVA waiting in line.

-juice

cat_and_bear

Just checked the VB site. Interesting. It seems that they have raised the price a little. The numbers are marked as 'cost' instead of invoice price. Sure, they still make money mainly from the extra options.

In any case, it is always good to check several places to find out the real dealer cost first. You need it as a base for any negotiation.

The leather is only a $600 something option. What I can see now is that definitely you can get a better deal here in Cali.

-bear

ateixeira

I read those as their price, basically, not the invoice.

-juice

youngsara

Hello Everyone -

My husband and I drove a 2003 Forester this morning. Loved it. This would be our first Subaru. The dealer in our area only has three 2003s. We didn't talk prices because we wanted to do a bit more research and check some other dealers. Neither my husband nor I has ever bought a brand new car so I want to go into the negotiation as prepared as possible.

cat_and_bear - where in California are you that you're getting a better price than Van Bortel? We're on the central coast.

Thanks,
Sara

barkasy1

What's with the mesh/nylon cloth seats on the 2003 Foresters? I waited for the '03's to come out so my wife could try one out and hopefully get one. We went to the dealers and sat in one (the dealer was closing and we found one with an open door ;^) ). You see, we live in Florida, and even people with chicken legs wear shorts here three-quarters of the year. Well the first thing my both my daughter and wife say is "Ehhh, the seat is kind of rough and uncomfortable".

Does anyone know if there are twoe types of cloth or is the next level leather? I'm sure sporting around on Mt. Fuji noone wears shorts so maybe noone thought of us in the southern hemisphere.

Dave

cat_and_bear

We live in the heart of Silicon Valley.

Please do not be confused. I was only saying that the invoice numbers we got are lower than VB's *cost* numbers. Use VB's sale price as a reference point. If you can get a deal close to it, I will say you get a good buy. As for the fitzmall prices, well, probably they did not list out all of the options, I feel their invoice prices are a bit on the high side.

The invoice price for our car is $23409. You can get the option price list from either subaru net or VB to figure out the real picture in Cali.

We bought the car from Ted/Mike Saunders of Stevens Creek Subaru. Not a hassle-free place but the deal making process was nothing unbearable, just standard tricks. Carlsen and Stevens Creek are the biggest dealers in the area. I will definitely start from these two first. Carlsen people are very nice but I feel that it is harder to get super deal there. Yep, if you are good, you will be able to beat the VB price.

Good luck.

barkasy1

Don't know where that "e" at the end of "two" came from. No, I am not Dan Quale.

kohall

This may be a repeat for some readers, but since there is soo much interest, I will provide this information again:

2003 Java Black XS Premium w/Leather, tail pipe cover, rear spoiler, brush guard, air filtration, security upgrade, splash guards, armrest extension, trailer hitch, rear diff. protector, rear bumper cover & wheel locks........all for $25,005, including freight. I just did the same pricing on the VB web page and it computes $25,336. Not sure why I paid $331 less than the asking price, but maybe it was my good looks (actually my wife's good looks probably made the difference:o).

I guess the moral of the story is to just zero in on the best price and leave all the "man in the backroom" baloney for the RAV4 and CRV buyers!

orangelebaron

What does everyone here think about the cloth covered door arm rests in the 2003? I for one think it's impractical (and it doesn't match the rest of the door trim). In fact a couple of them on the lot were already stained with dirt. I don't understand why they would do this.

Also... although the 2003 has more rear leg room, I found the seats in the 2002 to be more comfortable and supportive. I have not seen a 2003 with leather so maybe they're better.

storyteller

Dave: There are, indeed, two grades of cloth. The 03 X comes with gray or beige "flat woven" fabric. That's the stuff you dislike. The XS has a smoother, softer fabric called "Moquette." Then, if you choose, there's leather on the XS Premium.

Steve

barkasy1

It's my wife and daughter with their "ultra-sensitive" skin that disliked the fabric.

Back Seat seems bigger (leg room I mean). Interior seems better in some respects and cheaper in others. Maybe it's the brushed chrome. Anyone know where to get Invoice for the '03's.

cat_and_bear

kohall, I did not realise that your look would carry an invoice price! Hahaha.. anyway, indeed, you had got a very good deal! To clear up your confusion, well, it is surely tricky to read between the lines. Based on VB's *cost* price, my car should carry a cost price $23,704 when the invoice price I got here is only $23,409. In other words, VB has already priced in a $200-$400 profit into their *cost*.

Looks like they did not charge you extra/installation fee for those options otherwise you would have had to pay another $300 something which came to the final VB price.

No free lunch in this world, isn't it?

-bear

kohall

Bear: I recall that the way VB prices the options is that if you order the vehicle with options, you pay a lower price that if you see a car on the lot and ask to have something added by the dealer. The salesman explained that the options are actually added once the vehicle reaches port (in my case Boston). All I can imagine is some large warehouse where they roll in and out subies all day long - kind of like Ellis Island.

Take care - off to VB for its first oil change!

mrk610

I just got my windows tinted on my 02 outback. I got the 5% limo metalic tint on the windows .I don't have the front windows done due to the laws here in NJ .I have not noticed and radio reception problems with the tint .I payed 180.00 and the guy picked up my car at work and then dropped it off when done . Looks great with my dark blue color .

Mike k

mikeh19

Mike k,
Thanks for the info.

Mike H

rsholland

WARNING! Very large files!

Bob

http://www.media.subaru.com./

marinkid

Carsdirect.com has the 03 forester pricing up on their website. Price is right in the middle of msrp and invoice and hopefully dropping rapidly. Bruce

jsuess

what type of gas is recommended for the Subaru Forester L 1999?

armac13

All Foresters require Regular (87 octane) fuel. I see no reason to use any higher UNLESS you experience pinging. Pinging should not occur unless you have a mechanical fault.

Ross

cat_and_bear

Carsdirect.com is asking invoice + 5% for the '03 now. Their invoice price appears to be accurate.

-bear

rbleland

..check out recent item on www.canadiandriver.com website re: '98-'01 Foresters as used. This is a good website for those you not familiar with it. Prices are in Cdn. $ of course.

Rick

tlieser

There is apparently a considerable variation in regional prices. Here in Southern California (I checked zip codes for L.A. and Orange Counties) pricing for a base 2003 X is at or within $100 of MSRP. In the SF Bay Area, it is much less; so much so, in fact, that there could be room for arbitrage (buy one there & drive it here). Let's hear other observations from around the US & Canada?

recumbentdan

tlieser wrote:
> In the SF Bay Area, it is much less; so much
> so, in fact, that there could be room for
> arbitrage (buy one there & drive it here).
> Let's hear other observations from around
> the US & Canada?

Is it legal to buy a Forester in Canada and drive it home to the USA? If so, is there any cost advantage in doing so?

- recumbentdan

jim_loves_cars

according to CarsDirect!

paisan

I've heard it winds up costing more to do it that way. Some have gotten pathfinders that way.

-mike

storyteller

Up until recently, Nissan seemed to be the only company comfortable with Americans running across the line to take advantage of the exchange rate. A guy on the Nissan boards used to actively promote this. You could save many $K this way. It was supposed to be easy to bring this off financially, the cars were legal in the US and the warranty was good here. Some guys had the metric speedos altered; others didn't bother.

Now, IIRC, Nissan discourages this by not asking that US dealers respect a warranty from a Canadian-bought car. I think the G-35 tipped the issue; US dealers stood to lose a bunch of money on it if guys went to Canada.

My concern with a Canadian Subie would be whether US dealers would support the warranty.

Yo, Patti! Do you know the answer?

Steve

jerrys2

2002 Forester S+ (black) 50% front 35% rear...maximum legal in Massachusetts, wish it could be darker, $150 by Mr. Tint of New England.

Plan to be in Montreal in early June, any resturant recomendations?

Jerry

tomsr

NEVER think about buying a new car outside
California and registering it here. It is illegal
and DMV will not allow it.This is to protect
the dealers in state.Lobbyist at work you know.

paisan

Could you show some evidence of this? Perhaps on the CADMV page?

-mike

qmarker

Hello again,
Care to remark on the cost of owning a Forester? The dealership is pointing out that all systems are sealed. What does that mean to me? On a brand new (2003) Forester, what am I looking at for cost of ownership?

Thanks, Donna

qmarker

I'd like to hear pros/cons of this. The dealership is telling me they can tint them light or dark and most people get all windows tinted except the front and front/seat windows?

Thoughts?

Donna

conroe

New cars sold in CA must CA emission and environmental requirements, which are stricter than virtually anywhere else and can result in higher costs. That may be another reason for the reluctance to allow new cars bought out of state to be registered in CA.

lakepop

Well...The CA emission laws go beyond stringent.
I'm in complete agreement that all cars need to be emission compliant...BUT...their visual check portion is an exercise in absurdity.

I guess it just goes with the territory like their property tax laws and attempts to preserve the enviornment at the cost of having no viable energy program. No..I'm not anti -enviormentalist just using it as an example of how twisted things can get. Their infrastructure will cause major problems as it matures and needs to be upgraded.

OK...I quit...I really do like CA and visit there often.

paisan

All NY/NJ cars sold at dealers here are CA emssions certified.

-mike