Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

asplundh

I have a 2002 L with approx 16500 miles on it. I have been experiencing squeeling sounds when I hit the brakes. I brought it in to the dealer and they said there was plenty of pad left and all it needed was a cleaning. It helped a little but it seems to be just as loud again. Is this a bigger problem such as warped rotors or something else?

usa26

Hello everyone. I plan on buying a Forrester XS in the coming weeks, and I am hoping to capitalize on your buying experiences. Upon visiting a couple of dealerships, I came to realize that all Forresters (that I saw) came with options that could not/would not be removed by the dealer. When you purchased your vehicles, did you simply accept these additions or did you order one without them? The salesman said that he would knock off some of the price, but I really don't want to pay anything for something I do not want. I am hesitant to order one because delivery may take forever. My experience with options that are included is that negotiating the price of the CAR becomes more difficult. Any insight?

The TMV for the XS is 22,785, while the MSRP of the cars on dealers' lots is typically over 25K. Is the TMV accurate?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

qbrozen

I've always had this problem with our Forester. I've accepted it as normal since it always stops fine and the pads are not worn (see my post at 8917).

entropy - thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. If not, I think I'll be trying to buy an o2 sensor tomorrow.

subearu

the pads are 'glazed' a bit. I think the rotors are generally harder than most. We had the squeak about a month after we purchased our Outback. At the first oil change, they (service techs) scuffed the pads a bit to clean them. I also found that a firm hard stop in reverse first thing in the morning seemed to make it not happen. I haven't had the noise since that first month - going on 2 1/2 years later.

You may also be able to find some of this by searching the Subaru Crew Owners Club topics (link at top of page).

-Brian

lakepop

An interesting post in www.nasioc.com/Forester forum reference the turbo Forester. Seems like it will be pretty much what the Aussies get.
No significant change in body and the power nos are somewhat disappointing.
OK...just sharing what I read.

grahampeters

G'day

What I do know is that there will be a model freshen up here in May 2003 mostly fiddling with model specs (only released the series 11 Forester in June 2002 so not really needed) and possibly bringing in the 2.5l Turbo although this was originally slated for July through September 2003.

The bigger turbo is expected to be delivering significatly more power than the outgoing 2.0l turbo.

Cheers

Graham

goldencouple1

Just a note to any who are interested. Did a run to local trails with a couple of mountain bikes on the back of our 2002 Forester; used our old Rhodegear rack and not the on-top Yakima. Man, I could feel a difference in handling! Not necessarily pleasant. I don't remember the bikes on the back effecting our old Honda in the same way -- but the weight was not as far back on the Honda, either.

Anyway.

Had a great ride. Typical Florida trails. But one was a real blast -- Florida-technical: bumps and hairpin curves, tight runs through the trees and some BIG rocks to get over and around. Kanapaha Park (the one with the veteran's memorial) in Gainesville, FL, if anyone is interested in that.

mjsnd80

Excited to report the paperwork completed on a new Forester XS 5-speed. I pick it up Tuesday. It's the end of the month; plus year-end, and they are DEALING! I'm paying about $150 less than dealer invoice.

I'll buy the tweeters and compass mirror online and put them in myself, because it's a very easy process.

As a sidebar: the dealers are so eager to sell, I even got a call from a Honda salesman yesterday. I'd talked with him in Oct about a CRV. At that time, the process was to put my name on a list, wait 6-10 weeks and then pay full retail sticker... NOW they're eager to drop prices on the CRV... which dropped off my shopping list due to the fake/plastic bumpers, the reactive AWD system, and the motor mount problems that new buyers are complaining about and Honda can't fix!

Looking forward to driving the Forester. Thanks to all for the advice and insights into these cars!

03xngreen

usa26, I recently purchased an ’03 Forester X. Don’t know if you can order a model with less features, but it was my understanding that part of the beauty of a Forester was the long list of standard features that would be considered options in other makes. I was happy to accept everything that came included, from cruise control to 12 volt outlets. As for the TMV pricing, it was actually higher than what the dealers offered me. I did the on-line price negotiation (which is just e-mail messages sent to dealer’s “Internet Sales Managers”) and avoided dealing with those tricky lot salespeople.

spudman

I tried to find a car configured exactly the way I wanted, but could only come close. Finally I compromised and settled on a car with the upgraded security and self dimming mirror, neither of which I wanted. As it turns out, I am very pleased with the self dimming mirror.
For me compromising made the purchase easier and I am not unhappy with my decision and have no regrets about the added expense.
As far as the TMV pricing, I paid a fixed internet price which was a few hundred less than the TMV price. My purchase was stressless and hassle free. The Subaru has been terrific so far.

sundhario1

I'm considering the purchase of a Subaru Forester. I got my hands on a Subaru Legacy during a business trip. I found that after I closed the door and got onto the highway there was substantial wind noise coming from the driver side window. I realized this was because of the seal around the window. After I lowered then raised the window, the wind noise disappeared. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Is this common on cars that do not have a frame around the windows? Is this caused by the wear on the window seals?

Cheers!

03xngreen

usa26, I didn't understand what you meant about options, obviously. The dealer I went to had models that were pretty much standard.

Spudman, mind if I ask what they charged for the upgraded security? I'm thinking of installing the unit myself and was just curious.

spudman

On the window sticker the price for the upgraded security was in the neighborhood of 200 dollars.
Geico have me an insurance discount for having it.If I keep this car long enough, the small discount will eventually compensate for the initial expense.
The first couple days of ownership I set off the alarm accidentally a few times. I like that it shuts off by itself in 30 seconds. I had firsthand experience with this when I triggered the alarm on a Baja one Sunday.

nygreg

Yes, the Legacy does have a tendency for wind noise around the driver's mirror. By adjusting some of the weather stripping around that area, I was able to reduce it substantially. I don't believe I have heard of the same complaint from Forester owners. Perhaps they keep their radios louder than us OB drivers.

Greg

pnassmac

Forester owners have experienced this issue. In my case ('93 X) it was resolved with one visit to the dealer. The seal was replaced and window glass re-aligned. Four months later and still no issue.

Regards

03xngreen

Thanks for the security upgrade info. My dealer wants $196 for the unit, so that sounds about right. Only yours was already installed, so you came out ahead.

usa26

Thanks for all of your help. Any further advice is welcomed.

I'll be sure to look harder for models without options. Then again, if the auto dimming mirror is that good, maybe I'll reconsider. It wasn't the mirror that I had a problem with though. It was cargo nets, it was the bumper protector, etc. I understood that a dimming mirror could not be taken off, but geez, take out the nets. They wouldn't do it. That made me angry. I only went to two dealers though.

Anyone know of any great dealerships in the NY metro area? Preferably on Long Island.

Thanks again.

p0926

USA26- It's true that most new cars on dealer lots have a number of optional accessories added and that can complicate getting your search for the model of choice equipped exactly the way you want it. Many buyers do of course accept some options they don't want. If you want a completely bare-bones model or one with only specific options, your best bet is to custom order. This process isn't as difficult as you might think and the average delivery time is 6-8 weeks. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

-Frank P.

originalbitman

I ordered my 01 the way I wanted it and got the same pricing as the cars on the lot. It took about a month to get it.

bit

p0926

I actually got my factory orderd 01 for $100 less than what one on the lot would have cost because the dealer deducted their "floor prep"(?) fee.

-Frank P.

lspiva

USA26,

Try to negotiate options' price down.

My 03 Forester had an auto-dimming mirror with compass (something that I didn't care because I planned to tint my windows anyway), and Subaru security system upgrade (I wanted after market Cobra-type system). But dealer was so anxious to sell this car even though it was a "hot" one (just a few weeks on a market) that he dropped the options price from the selling price. So now I have a mirror (which is really good even with a 50% silver tint on a back) and a security system for free.

Regarding the rear cargo net, I don't think that dealer can just take it off. I know that its installation requires a driling side of the interior in the cargo area and installation of the special anchor points.

Good luck. Leo

ken_from_nj

agree - i picked up a 03 forester xs prem w/auto in end sept. wanted to get exactly that w/no other options but dlr had one on lot which had many other xtras such as bumper cover (actually pretty good as it has protected the bumper so far when loading the cargo area & provides a good step to stand on when tying things to the roof such as the xmas tree this year) also had auto dim mirror (again - thought it was stupid but now i see it in action it is pretty nice) also got the rub strips on the roof, the enhanced security thing (received an insurance break for that) the tail pipe cover (could have lived w/o that but i suppose it makes the back end look more 'finished') let's see... what else.... the cargo bin tray (nice to protect the cargo area carpet) the cargo nets (stupid & i've removed all except the one which runs along the back of the back seat) the armrest extention (i don't think it is possible to get a forester w/o this except on special order although i think w/o the extention - the armrest would be useless so i don't know why they didn't just design the vehicle with a useful armrest from the getgo) the mudflaps/guards (again - don't know why they aren't 'standard' and i challenge you to find a forester on a lot w/o them) i think that was it. i didn't get the air filter thing, the rear diffy protector, the rear window spoiler, or any of the speaker/sound sys upgrades although sorta wish i got the tweaters and may still buy/install them myself. essentially - the car had pop equip groups 1, 2 & 3. it was a car on the lot. we wanted a forester & needed to move quickly, we worked out a price which i felt acceptable w/the dlr and penned the deal. soooo - long story short - got a car w/more than i originally went shopping for but was overall satisfied w/the compromise. - ken

entropy5527

I took my 98 forester in for a general check up at it 180,000 miles, and the mechanic discovered that I have a rear wheel bearing that is ready for replacement. Following this I asked for a complete list of parts they would need so I could order them online. The deal told me that I could not bring in my own parts for replacement and that they would not provide me with a list of the required parts. This upset me a lot, but I figured may be I broached some kind of deal etiquette issue. So my question is, can a dealer refuse to give me a parts list, and refuse to put genuine subaru parts ordered by my online into my car??

rsay777

I'm 5 months into my X and have no complaints. I actually wanted an XS/manual but ended up with an X/manual with a few frills. I find the Forester tough to keep the windows defogged. I like to keep it on re-circ to keep the exhaust from entering the cabin. Even with AC/heat on it will fog up unless I periodically go to full on DEF which then brings in outside air. Strange.

Just did a road trip and it was nice to get the car on the open highway and do the cruise control thing. This car tracks straighter than any Suby I've owned. With no one in front of me and the seat tilted back just right and my fav CD playing I knew again this car is/will continue to grow on me.

Happy New Year all. Bob L.

lakepop

Sounds like you stepped a little out of bounds with your dealer. Have you used him for all your work? If so...he could have been more receptive ..HOWEVER...I'm on his side with this one.He is in business to make money including whatever he can make on parts. You probably made him feel like you thought he was ripping you off. He certainly doesn't have to provide you a list of materials and if you think that upsets you...think about how your plan upset him.
A bit of a stretch ...but do you take your own food to a favorite resturant....to be cooked/served?
You need to go back and undo this or go find another dealer...you went a little over the line.
Keep in mind this is ONLY my .02

nygreg

Paisan likes a dealer in Staten Island. I'm sure he will chime in soon.

Greg

kens

entropy5527:
It sounds like what you're after is the absolute lowest cost to replace a wheel bearing. If that is the case, you might be better off working with an independent shop than a dealer. Most parts departments at dealers can tell you what parts go into a wheel bearing assembly.

180K on a 98 Forester!! Wow, and I thought I had a lot of miles at 79K.

Bob L.:
Try getting some good auto glass cleaner (alcohol based, not ammonia based) and thoroughly clean the inside of your windows. They'll fog up a lot less.

Ken

declansdad

I too had that problem. I use the following technique and it has worked for me:

1. set to re-circulate and defrost
2. once the windows are clear, switch to outside air (not re-circulate) and lower the fan setting.

Using this technique, I no longer use the air conditioning; also, I follow Ken's advice when cleaining the windows. Hope this works for you.

Michael

mjsnd80

Picking up my 03 XS 5-Speed tomorrow at 5P - just under the line fo a 2002 delivery!

Happy to report that here in Maine, I did not see cars packed with the high-profit accessories that dealers love to pile onto/into the cars. I even went from car to car, looking for a Compass Mirror! Still haven't seen one, but will order it online and install it myself. Same with the tweeter kit.

Question: Can I get the heavy-duty winter floor mats in the beige color, or are they all black? I will measure the cargo area to see what I can get for a sturdy liner there, and will try to get that in beige too. (The Subaru cargo liner is black, and seems a bit flimsy - any experiences?)

There's a winter storm heading to Maine, and I'll be ready for it!

spudman

The car I bought already had the cargo net. It's an option I wanted anyway. I'm glad the net wasn't too expensive because I've really grown to dislike it. I've never had a great need for it yet, and mostly it is in the way when I want to load large items or access the small storage areas beneath the floor. Like many other things I can't bring myself to get rid of it, because I think that one day I'll really need it. In the meantime I just keep one end unhooked most of the time.

burnsmr4

I have just noticed that my driver's side window produces a lot of wind noise on my '02 Subaru Forester S as well. Happened about 10K miles into the 16K that I've put on the vehicle. Don't know what the change was. Rolling down and up the window doesn't solve it. Almost sounds like it's open a little at interstate/highway speeds. I'm having the dealership check the seals at the next service.

On a scarier note, door seals on frameless windows like this can be a nightmare. My '99 Mercury Cougar did NOT have frames around the window glass, and if the window was jarred or opened at higher than 45mph speeds, it would eventually get out of whack in the track. When I would roll up the window, it would pop out PAST the top of the door (roof). For months at a time, I would have to inch the window shut to get it closed properly so as not to cause leaks. Additionally, the door seals around the frameless window setup would allow water in at the base of the A-pillar when I went to car washes. The seals, from the inside of the car, were also bunched up -- as though too large for the doorway -- near the base of the A-pillar near the dash.

Bottom line -- I was worried about the Subaru NOT having frames around the windows, but I don't worry about that now. In the same amount of time that I've had to put 16K miles on my Subaru, I think I probably only managed 5K on my Mercury -- simply because it was in the shop for leaks and window adjustments all the time. It actually spent 30 days at the dealership for a window adjustment once because the mechanic couldn't get it right. :-\

Happy New Year folks.

burnsmr4

paisan

You might try contacting Mark Jerrick @ SI Subaru/Isuzu/Kia. He is an excellent salesman. Tell him you are from Edmunds also. It's a bit of a hike but when I bought my 2 vehicles from him he was upfront and honest about the pricing (no "advertising", or "you have to buy fromt he lot" etc) I actually made him order my Trooper for me since I wanted no options and a particular silver color.

-mike

artgpo

My son has a 1999 Forester L purchased new in 1999. The vehicle has been far from the perfect car all would like to think. It has had numerous major problems including a/c system replacement, twice, serious oil leaks, three times and numerous other problems. I would not recommend this car to anyone based on his experience. It is not used off road or abused and gets all its required maintenance. I also know there are good and bad in everything but this is a real loser. Most problems occurred after the expiration of the factory warranty but they were fortunate enough to buy an extended warranty.

usa26

Wow, very useful information. When I scope out dealerships again in a few weeks, I will certainly inquire about ordering a car. (I'll also contact Mark Jerrick-thanks) First, I'll try to negotiate the cost of the options down, however. That seems easier than ordering one, as I'd prefer to walk away with car within a few days rather than a few weeks/months. I'd just need them to cut the cost of the option by at least 50-60% though. As per subaru.com, the total sticker cost of the tailpiper cover, splash guards, upgraded security system, auto dimming mirror, armrest extension, rear net and side nets= $1617. That's a TON of money, considering that the only things that I would truly be interested in are the splash guards and security system (maybe). I'd like to set a limit of maybe $500 that I'd be willing to pay in options. I chose those option because I seem to remember most cars equipped with most/all of those options.

The MSRP for the XS w/ auto tranny is 23,700 (not including destination charge). Add the $1,600 in options and the destination charge and the price of the car jumps to nearly 26K. If I have to accept a bunch of options, I'd like to pay around $22,600 (TMV + $500 or so for unwanted options). That may be a stretch, but that's what I'll shoot for. Then I'd consider ordering one.

Again, thanks to all of you. You've been a huge help. When I close the deal, I'll report back. In the meantime, I'll continue to monitor the discussions and inundate all of you with further questions.

spudman

I'm not real comfortable with the frameless windows myself, but didn't let that deter me from my purchase. The '90 Legacy wagon I had for little over a year had terrible problems with wind noise and leaky windows. Wind and water seeped behind the glass with abandon. Frequent trips back to the dealer didn't help.
I'm hoping to fare better with the 2003 Forester.

sweendog

I've got a 2001 S with 18,000 miles had a burning smell coming from my engine and exhaust. The engine never overheats, but the smell is always there. It seems particularly strong when going uphill, but I have also smelled it as soon as I turn on the engine. I've gone through a few tanks of gas (different brands), changed the oil & filter, flushed and changed the coolant, and checked the Transmission fluid (it's OK). I've made an appointment to bring it in to my dealer, but anybody have an idea what might be causing it? Thanks, Happy New Year.

gened1

Does anyone know where I might be able to get an outline sketch of a Forester. I would like to put an outline type of a Forester graphic on a t-shirt.
Every other vehicle seems to have this but I have yet to see one for the Forester.

I also wondered about the fogging of the windows and was told by the people at the My Subaru site to leave the switch all the way to the right to let outside air in and put the mode switch to defrost. This turns on the air conditioning compressor to take the moisture out of the cabin. The air conditioning light will not come on in this situation. This window fogging only sems to happen when the temperature is around freezing and there is a lot of moisture in the air or I am parked and sitting in the car. Humm I think I used to have this problem back in the '60's but then memory isn't what it used to be!!
Gene

entropy5527

Lakepop, I agree with you in concept. They are in business to make money. My problem stems from the fact that they aren't 50% more expensive, or 80% more expensive, but 125% more expensive than the on-line parts places. Why should I pay $160 in parts that are making a profit for another dealer at $70? I don't like this dealer so I am not that hurt about his response, and I will not use them for anything vice emergencies, but I don't want to offend a dealer/mechanic I respect in the future. It seems to me from traveling that there is a big variation in parts prices from dealer to dealer, I can't believe Subaru would be OK with that....

paisan

SOA has Zero control over it. Each dealer is independently owned and are not subject to any rules of pricing. All dealers are like that.

-mike

nygreg

What does the smell, hmmm, smell like? Does it smell like anitfreeze (maple syrup), oil or possibly the familiar Subaru undercoating smell (although with 18K miles, it should be gone)?

Greg

jtm4

My '98 Forester has 63,000 miles on it and no problems with the window seals. No wind noise or water leakage.

artgpo, I can only speak from my own experience. My Forester has been relatively problem free since I bought it new in '98. My AC is the coldest of any vehicle I've owned. The reliability of my Forester ranks up there with the Toyotas I've owned.

grahampeters

G'day

This is a bit of fun which gives a Forester outline.

I'd look hard at the copyright aspect though to make sure you are not ripping off someone's design

http://subaru.com.au/downloads/5441_5637_1008.jpg

Cheers

Graham

gened1

Yes I am looking for something like that to start.
Then I would like to move into a sketch type of a look and then use some neon highlights to just get a stylized outline of the Forester.
By the way the one you included was an 03 but I would be interested in a first Generation (U.S.98-02 version.)If only I was a graphics person. I may have to go to Photoshop and play with the brushes or air brush a picture of my Forester.
Gene

lspiva

I would like to take this opportunity to wish a Happy New Year to everyone on this board.

The year 2002 was important to me, as I got my first Subaru vehicle. With small problems behind me, I would like to thanks people of SOA (special thanks goes to Patti), and every one who supported me and provided with an advice.

Happy New Year to all of you. And as we Russians are saying, let me pickup champagne glass and wish you "Let's keep the wheels rolling", especially when it's Subaru All-Wheel-Drive!!! DO NOT drink and drive though.

Leo

rochcom

If it is a sort of burning rubber odor, it could be a small amount of oil leaking onto hot engine or exhaust parts. This will smell different from the exhaust of an oil burning engine. I have had several oil leaks on my '98 (valve covers and rear engine seal)and as the post above about a '99 and others seem to indicate, such leaks are not uncommon. They will be covered under warranty if it is still in force.

mjsnd80

Picked up my '03 Forester XS 5-Speed last night. I'm in Maine, and bought it because of the sloppy white stuff. Great surprise is how well the car corners and accelerates on dry pavement.

This car is going to be FUN!!!

nygreg

Congratulations. Looks like there will plenty of white stuff this year. Great time to buy the Forester. Good luck.

Greg

scirocco22

James-- I really understand the reason you are irritated. I can feel your frustration. But from what we all know going back to econ' 101 is that prices in a capitalistic economy are solely based on the concept of supply and demand. A business can't charge more than their customer's are willing to pay or they obviously wouldn't be able to stay in business.

The shop in question evidently has enough people willing to use their services at the prices they currently charge. When enough people start feeling the way you do and think that the incredible mark-up for parts you are describing are unfair, just as you did, they will no longer give their business to that dealer's service department. The dealership in turn will have to eventually lower their service prices in order to attract people back to their business.

But, if the majority of their customer's are willing to pay those prices they are charging because they trust and find the dealership to do quality work with honesty and integrity and don't mind paying a premium for that excellent service, then the dealership in all likelihood can continue to charge the prices they do ...I know dealerships like this --and I know customers who are willing to pay "the price" for good service.

What we've got to remember is that the price which the dealer's shop, or an independent shop for that matter, charges is a package deal ...one part of the package being the parts invoice and the other being the labor charges. As others have said, we've got to take the whole package or otherwise take out business elsewhere.

As with the price of their cars and accessories, SOA does establish an "msrp" for their own factory parts to be sold by their dealers but as Mike said, there is no stipulation that dealers are required to charge that price ...they are free to sell them for under or over MSRP depending on their own determination as to what the market will bear. They are in business to make a profit and therefore I would have to assume that they'd attempt to charge as much as they can within the parameters of what the consumer is willing to pay.

The "online parts places" as you correctly referred to are associated with a brick-and-mortar Subaru dealership. But the prices they charge are intended for retail customers to use as DIY.

I agree with you that logically, a dealership's service department should be charging below that "on-line" price for the price of parts to be included on a service invoice. But what are we to do other than to take our business elsewhere??

It's another reason why I hesitate to use dealership's service departments. I tend to use independent mechanics whom have established good reputations and have recommendations which show them to be honest and trustworthy. I've found that they usually charge much less than a dealer's service department.

I understand and recogize --for good reasons-- that many Subaru owners use dealerships for their service needs and I don't wish to criticize their decisions. I realize there have been many debates over this issue so I'll leave this topic well enough alone.

--'rocco

subaru4me

Hi there,

I thought I read that Subaru would be putting the 2.0 turbo from the WRX into the Forester for 2004. Has anyone else heard this or have more info?

Thanks

lakepop

subaru4me...I posted this earlier....the nasioc Forester forum has a 12/27 post "heres for you guys".

It links a apexjapan article which says we will be getting the Aussie version 2.0. Little less torque but at a little less rpm...upgraded interior....MacPherson struts/coils at all 4 corners...improved mileage.
Wait a few more days....should be shown at Chicago car show.
Check the future models forum , usually LOTS of inputs there.In fact a 2.5 turbo was seen in Alaska being cold weather tested