Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

ateixeira

We lost some posts, but I believe the topic was the unpainted bumpers.

Well, Subaru's are the same color all the way through, no depth of scratching will discolor the bumpers, I have deep battle scars on mine to prove it.

It is a low-maintenance, more resistant bumper, any way you look at it. Dents tend to fix themselves, and just pop out, too.

-juice

mpgman

I know that the X has rear drums, no auto climate control, fewer speakers in standard form and no LSD. Is the dash different? Are the interior components different? What about the driver's seat? I notice that the manual on the X is 6 way and that the power seats are 8 way. Other than the power and the seemingly infinite setting range, do the power seats have more travel back and forth, up and down or tilt than the manual seats on the X? Would front driver legroom be any different? Also, if you are doing after market leather, anyone with any experience adding a passenger side lumbar support? Cost? Type? Is the depreciation rate appreciably lower for the higher end models?

Thanks.

rsholland

The Forester X is an excellent value, no doubt. The XS, LL Bean and XT do have upgraded interiors. They all get heated seats, heated outside mirrors, heated windshield deicer, and a in-dash 6-CD changer standard. The 6-CD changer is a Forester X option, but none of the other items are.

Sorry, I can't answer your seat and depreciation questions with any accuracy.

Bob

dnestr

they are the ditto of each other inside, the same coarse plastic and ordinary seats. But other things will make you happy.

BTW I've got a test drive on a 2,5XT MT. What a beast it is!

elmoblatch

New to this board & looking for constructive input from current owners while I catch up on all the posts...thanks in advance.

elmoblatch

Does anyone know what has been improved for 2005 ?

There appears to be a $1,250 rebate on the 2004 or 2.9% financing on the 2005.

Also wondering if any of the current owners who post here are over 6 ft tall. I sat in a Forester X at the dealer for a minute & it seemed pretty crampt. The salesman turned the seat dial & lowered the seat, which made some more room.

The dealer is advertising $3,300 off the MSRP on a Forester X w/ auto tranny. My policy is always work from invoice price...this late in the season is it reasonable to expect to buy under invoice ?

c_hunter

We had an 03 Forester XS-premium and there was a ton of room for me. I am 6'1" and 235lb. That particular model had a moonroof which actually ate into headroom. An X or XS without moonroof has even more headroom than our XS-premium did.

Craig

ezshift5

X...late in the season, MT, no real options...circa $18600 around here.......ez

mpgman

I'm interested in this discussion too. Are there any significant changes for 05 such as side air bags in all models, improved engine or transmission, etc? It appears to be that there may be a difference in the roof racks. 04s appears to have several rails across the roof while the 05s look like side rails only and cross pieces to attach. Anything else? In south central NJ, you can save about $3200 on a 04 inclucing the rebate. Is it worth it given an extra year of depreciation?

ezshift5

...'05 is highway rated at 30 mpg (v. '04's 28).

Not sure about other folks but fuel cost potential has always colored my thinking (Don't want to spend my Naval Reserve pay unwisely) ez

ateixeira

mpgman: I'll try to answer your questions.

Dash - same, seat - same except for fabric covering them. I doubt the total leg room is any different, by try them.

Not sure about the rest. Call an upholstery shop that installs Catskins leather, they can do anything you want basically, even aftermarket seat heaters.

I expect the rate of depreciation would be about the same, but that still means a higher-end model will cost you more over the long run.

All models already have side head/chest air bags.

The 2005s did get throttle-by-wire (XT already had it IIRC), and gas mileage improves a bit. 23/30 has gotta be the most fuel efficient compact SUV with AWD.

Still, the 2004s are so much cheaper that these small improvements will not make up the difference in up-front price.

-juice

elmoblatch

Test drove the car & wife really liked it. I must say the the AWD & safety features give me a good feeling with her & kids doing most of the driving in it. The dealer was able to show me the invoice & sell at that price, plus $1,250 rebate. The problem was their trade allowance for my 98 Civic was about 3k lower than what KBB says the car is worth. We disagreed on whether the trade was in "Good" or "Fair" condition. The dealer said they would wholesale the car & could not offer close to what I wanted.

The dealer called back today & increased the offer by about 1k, but they are still 2k short.

I am going to try & sell the car on my own.

Any suggestions from folks who have sold cars on their own ?

I want to accompany anyone who test drives the car. In the ad, I noted the car had one owner with all maint records. I want to be paid by a cashier's check....does that sound reasonable ?

Thanks in advance...great forum !

ateixeira

To be fair, KBB tends to be optimistic. I notice ads all the time boasting "$xxxx below KBB price" because they are so easy to beat.

Try an Edmunds used car appraisal.

Private Party values will always be higher, of course, than the wholesale trade-in price a dealer offers.

If your state requires an inspection, that always helps it sell more quickly.

-juice

lfdal

It might be worth your time to pay a flat fee for access to the galves web site. That will provide you with 24 hour access and give you a chance to see what the "real" wholesale value may be in your area.

My last two trades, one of which was a Honda, the other a Ford, in both cases required significant haggling to get up to the wholesale price. In both case btw, the dealer sold the cars off the lot so they never went to auction.

In Massachusetts, if you sell someone a used car they are entitled to an implied warranty - basically you're on the hook for a while if they torture the engine to death, etc. The dealers here love that law because it makes private sales a potential headache, especially if you're selling something other than a heap. Last time I looked we can't even put "As Is" legally on the Bill of Sale.

Anyway, check with galves if you can, I can just about guarantee it will be lower than the KBB or Edmunds trade in allowance.

Also make sure your state doesn't have any implied warranty laws that you don't want to be on the hook for.

HTH

Larry

mnf

I ran in to same thing when i went to trade my 2000 accord in for a 2004 xs Forester it was about 3k short so find a buyer and get the extra $$. This was in part since i was getting such a good deal there was no room for them to make much so they offered a low price on the trade in. I am not sure if you live in a state with sales tax but if you do here is a $$ saving tip. You get the seller to agree to this (give them $50 or so) then they go to the dealership and tell them you want to do a do a pass through( just a paper shuffle). A pass through is where the dealer buys the car from you for what you agreed to sell it to your buyer then they sell it to him for that price. You pay a price of $300-$500 for the handling to the dealer for the paper work. This will save you on paying taxes on the full amount and then the dealer get a few bucks and he does all the paper work. Yes it is legal they just dont tell you about it. I told the dealer if they want to sell me my car this is how it works but you need the buyer in on it also. Good Luck.... Matt

ateixeira

We were insulted with what a Mazda dealer offered us for a Mirage way back when.

Keep something in mind - when you are dealing with a price around invoice, their margins are so thin there isn't any room to take a loss on your trade. In fact their entire profit will pretty much come from that sale, if it's salable.

Our Mirage was too old to be on their used car lot, so they'd have to wholesale it. That's why they only offered us wholesale.

'98 may be a bit old for a dealer used car lot, they may be counting on wholesaling it out.

If you're buying a Saturn, for comparison, the dealer has a huge $2000 plus margin, so they can play the trade-in a lot higher, and still not take a loss.

I didn't like it at the time, but I understand it better now.

-juice

edunnett

...I must say the the AWD & safety features give me a good feeling with her & kids doing most of the driving in it. The dealer was able to show me the invoice & sell at that price, plus $1,250 rebate. The problem was their trade allowance for my 98 Civic ... I am going to try & sell the car on my own. Any suggestions from folks who have sold cars on their own ?

1) Have you test driven the Honda CR-V? It is more roomy in front, so you won't feel as cramped. It also is more roomy in the back seat for the kids. My husband and I have one of each: an '04 CR-V and an '04 Forester. He is large and has the CR-V and loves it. I love the performance, better safety ratings and more 'winterization' of the Forester. It handles better in my opinion too.

2) You should not hold back in starting your negotiations at 500 below invoice minus the incentive. I'm not kidding. I got my Forester at $100 above invoice and the husband's CR-V at $300 below invoice.

3) Forego the trade in. You will get thousands more for your Civic on the private party market. I was offered at most $2500 to trade in my '93 Civic - I sold it private party for $3700. Civics sell like hot cakes. You won't have a problem. You should get a cashiers check definitely. You should insist on seeing the drivers license of anyone test driving (my Statefarm policy wont' pay if I let an unlicensed driver crash my car) and accompany them too. I would buy the new car first then sell the Civic after - if you can afford to. That way you're never NEEDING a new car from the dealer - you'll pay more if they sense you are in NEED.

Good luck,
elissa

gmginsfo

For the first 15K miles of driving my '03 Forester XS I kept it filled with no lead 87-octane gas from indie gas stations. I noticed some knocking on uphill grades, but didn't worry about it.

Recently, I joined Costco and have started filling up there, since their prices are always the lowest or within a penny of them. (Latest in SDiego: $1.97) The knocking has stopped and the engine seems to run smoother. But now I wonder if I damaged the engine at all by running the probably-adulterated (H20?) indie cheapo leadfree I started with for as long as I did?

ateixeira

The ECU has a knock sensor and dials back the timing long before any harm is done. As long as it was not sustained for a long time, and under load, no harm done.

-juice

stever

10 Steps to Selling Your Car

You can talk to the tips author live at the August 25th chat too.

Steve, Host

gmginsfo

Thanks, Mr. Juice. BTW, I forgot to mention how couth Costco customers are when filling up. Everyone pulls in the right way, no one "jumps" the line, no one hassles anyone to hurry, and people actually know how to work the pumps quickly and efficiently! Given Subaru owners' own penchant for politeness - and smarts - I guess Gas Heaven would be a lot full of Subies lined up to gas up at Costco on a nice sunny day!

once_for_all

the best unknown feature of the Forester is the fill port on the passenger side of the vehicle. I love it when I can drive right in past 3 cars waiting to fill up on the other side.

John

elmoblatch

The ad is in the paper & I have a call into the insurance agent. I want to check with her about any other rules for insurance coverage & selling the car. I checked the NYS DMV website & it says to remove the window registration sticker once you sell the car.

I just looked up the old receipts I had for repairs & listed them. In the ad I mentioned that the car had one owner & I have all Maint. records...I heard some time ago that info is a great selling feature.

I am confident that my Honda will be sold for a good price. I will likely go back to the dealer since they were below invoice on their last offer.

Wondering what folks here think about having the car rustproofed ?

I live in NYS and they use a lot of salt on the roads each winter. I know this can be a big profit center for the dealer...just wondering what other Subaru owners have done.

Again, thanks for all the input !

c_hunter

I don't think it's needed anymore. Subarus are undercoated at the factory, and they use a lot of galvanized metal now.

Craig

mpgman

Except if you are a front passenger. I find that the right wheel well intrusion is really pronounced and robs you of leg room.

stever

I've almost trained myself to look at the little triangle next to the gas gauge on my Outback that tells me which side the fill port is on. This afternoon I had to back up and switch pump sides - I'm used to them being on the driver's side.

Steve, Host

samiam_68

I sold my old Legacy through the used car section of carsdirect.com. They charge one flat fee ($40 IIRC), and you can have your car listed for as long as you want.

p0926

I used one of the on-line services also. They're inexpensive and much better than the local paper because you can include much more info and large color photos. Mine sold within a couple of days at the asking price (private party resale value) to the first person who looked at it.

-Frank

bhanna261

When I recently replaced the original Geos on my '01, the dealer gave me a $50 credit for the spare...so I replaced it, too.

edunnett

I got rustproofing for my 93 civic in NY - found it to be a waste of money and time. In order to keep the rustproofing warranty intact, I had to return to the selling dealer (which I HATED) on an annual basis since they used an aftermarket rustproofing vendor that not all Honda dealerships use). You should find out what's involved in maintaining the rustproofing warranty if there is one. My civic's entire exhaust, brake rotors and drums, quarter panels, undercarraige, etc all rusted within 8-9 years time anyway. My Subaru (sans rustproofing) survived 4 years without a speck of rust and it lived through one winter in Boston, two 'winters' in San Francisco and one 'winter' on the CA coast - NOT garage-kept.

once_for_all

what other tires did the dealer recommend? Was it SOA, or someone else?

John

ateixeira

I think Elissa's Subaru had galvanized steel and the earlier Civic probably did not.

Rust is a lot less common now. The hood and hatch are aluminum and the rest is galvanized steel. Just touch-up or repaint any damaged panels and you should be fine.

-juice

p0926

I think with the way that today's car are made, rust-proofing isn't necessary and is merely a means for the dealer to separate you from more of your hard-earned cash. In fact, didn't I read somewhere that when improperly applied (assuming that they even bother to apply anything), it can actually promote rust?

-Frank

lfdal

To Frank's point - if they don't apply it right it can actually trap water and moisture in the body panels - (they clog the drains) and really help the rust along.

Larry

elmoblatch

Ad has been in the paper a couple of days & only 2 calls. One wanted a standard & I have auto - the other asked more questions about scratches & dents then how well the car has been cared for.

He might call back if his kid is interested.

Really thought I would have more calls by now...I always thought that used Hondas sort of sold themselves.

Hopefully there will be more interest over the weekend.

dnestr

Did you offer them some extra bonus like a winter tire set or seat covers? Usually it works better than a can of Dr. Pepper lost under rear seats.

ateixeira

What year and model and where are you?

Just curious.

-juice

hypov

Have you placed Ads on the internet too?
a depreciating paper audience may be reason for slow response.

-Dave

p0926

"a depreciating paper audience may be reason for slow response"

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like the majority of today's buyers do their research and shopping online.

-Frank

edunnett

2 days and 2 calls?!?!?!?

My Dakota was on the market two months and I got two calls! Ha! You're doing great. :-)

My Honda sold after two weeks and only one or two lookers and sold over blue book. It's all about the advertising though - if you get the right audience you'll get lots of folks calling. Hell, if you're in my neighborhood and the price is right I might be interested! :-)

Elissa

ateixeira

Everyone is on vacation in August, it's a ghost town here at work. You could advertise free pizza and, well, I'd show up, but not too many others.

-juice

ezshift5

...I'm with you. But first priority would be a Forester X when the price is right ($17995)...ez

joybell

If the dealer does the prep wash first, then the undercoating, water could be trapped in corners an crevices and cause corrosion where perhaps it would never have happened if no "rustproofing" was applied. Told to me by a body shop owner.

katydaly

I have a 2000 Forester that I bought used with 17k miles on it. It now has 42k miles on it, and I have had to replace brakes-front only, tires-all 4, radiator, O2 sensor, and just found out this week that the tires, which are now 1YO with 14k miles on them, need to be replaced again, with new struts-front and rear, and a wheel alignment, AND an "intermediate" exhaust pipe is cracked and needs replacing as well.

I am tired of spending money on this car! I researched it before buying it, and all reviews seemed positive, if not rave. Also talked to all the Sube owners I know, and they were ALL rave reviewers.

So did I just get a bum deal? I had a CarFax run on it just to make sure it did only have 17k miles at the time of purchase, and that came out to be true (according to the CarFax).

So I am ready to dump this car and buy a new, similarly sized car/SUV. My questions for you are---

1) should I bail out or fix this loser ($1109 to repair)?

2) If I bail, should I put the blinders on and buy another Forester?

3) I am also liking the Honda CRV and Element, but have just read positive reviews from edmunds and consumers, but negative reviews on these forums (engine fires!). Should I take a chance that the Honda will be better than the Sube?

I am the type of person who likes to keep a car until it dies, and I would be happy if that were around 200K. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

tidester

had to replace brakes-front only ... the tires, which are now 1YO with 14k miles on them, need to be replaced again...

That sounds like aggressive driving. Have you had similar experiences with previous vehicles?

tidester, host

katydaly

If I had to describe my driving, I would be closer to wimpy on the scale, not aggressive. Most of my driving is my 12 miles each way to work in not-so-bad traffic. Then, once a year, we take the Forester, loaded with 2 big dogs and our crap, up to Maine--a 10-hour trip each way. But this is all highway driving, and neither myself nor my husband are aggressive drivers.

My previous car was a Mazda Protege, with 80k on it when I sold it, I only replaced the tires once. And before that, my Corolla had 109k on it when it was stolen, and I think I only replaced the tires once on that as well (which doesn't seem possible, so it was probably twice).

My mechanic is telling me that the strut problem caused the early tire failure. So what caused the early strut failure?

Could the previous owner have damaged all of this stuff on the car if he only had it for 17k miles?

307web

I noticed that unsubscribing from this and other forums does not work. What is the problem?

stever

Please report the subscription problem over in Our Software! Your Questions Answered... - a few other people have had bugs but I thought that one had been fixed. Thanks!

Steve, Host

tidester

I don't recall any discussions here about premature wearing of brakes or tires on the Forester but I do know that I would not be happy in your situation. I can't offer advice on a replacement vehicle but, personally, if I weren't happy with a vehicle I wouldn't keep a serious source of irritation around for very long.

tidester, host

KCRam

and just found out this week that the tires, which are now 1YO with 14k miles on them, need to be replaced again, with new struts-front and rear, and a wheel alignment,

Hmmm... this sounds more like a major suspension issue than anything else. Tires wear out that fast in reaction to something, and if you're only driving mildly to work and a once-a-year vacation, then I'd get to a suspension specialist and have the entire front end given a thorough exam.

kcram
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