Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

grahampeters

G'day

The thing thta has me intrigued is the similarity in size between the Long wheelbase RAV4 and the Kluger (Highlander). Almost identical in every dimension and similar engine power. Okay, the Highlander comes out of a Lexus factory and probably appeals to an older customer base whilst the RAV4 is seen as more sport, but it seems an odd product conflict.

Cheers

Graham

rsholland

I couldn't agree more Graham, especially the RAV4 with the 3.5 V6 and 3-row seating. Rumor has it the Highlander/Kluger will be redesigned (larger?) next year.

Bob

p0926

Hey no manual trans option on the new RAV4?!?! So now Toyota doesn't offer a single SUV model with a manual tranny :-(

-Frank

ateixeira

Not even the 4Runner? That's a bummer.

If I were shopping for a Highlander there is no doubt a RAV4 would pull me away from it. More HP for less money, more modern styling, and better fuel efficiency.

Pics - I think those are fine. If you want to e-mail me the original photos, my e-mail is in my profile. I'll blur any license plates for privacy purposes. Thanks.

-juice

ateixeira

Ok, got the pics, it's fine for my purposes. Thanks again.

-juice

andrelaplume

I think my point was that the size of the compact SUV is growing and the Forester really has not been evolving in size for years; in other waus yes but not in size. Once the new RAV and V are out...what are Subaru Forester comparables? The Tuscon is already bigger. Even the Escape Tribute are wider and have more leg room. Even the Endeavor I believe is wider. I am not passing judgement, I guess Sub needs to figure out if there is more money to be made by upsizing and competing or perhaps corning the market on having the smallest SUV / wagon, other than the Vibe/Matrix.

ateixeira

Endeavor was a mid-sizer all along. Mitsu's compact entry is the Outlander, and it's still small.

CR-V is almost mid-size, I think the lack of a V6 and limited payload and towing capacity keep it from truly earning that title. Call it inbetween if you prefer.

Jeep Liberty is still small inside, so is the XTerra, even though they're tall and look bigger outside.

Tucson is pretty small, I've driven one and they're about the same as a Forester on the inside, maybe more rear leg room but less cargo room. Sportage too, naturally.

Grand Vitara is still compact. BMW X3. Freelander. Element if you call that an SUV. Vue squeezes in on the high end, as does the Escape/Tribute.

Equinox is bigger but it's so inefficient that it feels like a compact. :P

-juice

prosa

I think my point was that the size of the compact SUV is growing and the Forester really has not been evolving in size for years; in other waus yes but not in size. Once the new RAV and V are out...what are Subaru Forester comparables? The Tuscon is already bigger. Even the Escape Tribute are wider and have more leg room. Even the Endeavor I believe is wider.

It's not entirely comparable as it doesn't have AWD, but in many aspects the HHR is very similar to the Forester. Curb weights are nearly identical and all dimensions except wheelbase are within one inch.

ateixeira

Some people said the same about the PT Cruiser but very rarely was it cross-shopped with the Forester.

RAV4 and CR-V come up most often when you ask people. Now that those have/will grow, you wonder if the buyers will move with the upsizers or stick with a compact.

Some people like a compact, in fact for my daily driver I'd actually want something smaller than a Forester. But for our family/weekend vehicles, the RAV4 might just be better suited.

That's for someone like me who uses 2 different cars, each one can be more extreme (R1e and Tribeca would be ideal).

But if I had to choose one single vehicle to drive, like most people do, I dunno, it really has to be nimble. I thought the '98 Outback was too big for me, imagine that!

-juice

poodog13

Despite whatever tech specs similarities you might reference, I can't imagine someone would ever narrow a purchase down to either the Forrester or the HHR. They are after a very different type of person, especially given the HHR's unique styling, which you either love or hate.

ateixeira

Forester is the female who lives in the Snow Belt and wants an efficient, safe SUV alternative.

HHR is the geek in Texas who think he's trendy but really isn't.



-juice

drwales

Got the damage and repair estimate back from Fitzgerald's yesterday afternoon.
Deep breath. $10500.
Airbags alone count for $4000, and there was sub-frame and engine mount damage as well as the bumper and body panels that so obviously needed to be replaced! Perhaps the bigger problem is that it will take 2 months to complete, which means two months in a rental car.

I'm torn between getting our trusty Forester back, sentimental reasons such as First New Car, and the fact that $10500 is so close (but below) the threshhold for totalling, which would mean getting a new car this weekend, but it would mean that it would be OUR car going to visit NJ for Christmas with the dogs in the back.
Considering that State Farm is paying Hertz $29 a day, two whole months of repairs would tag another $1800 on the repair bill, which puts one even closer, if not above, the value of a 2003 Forester XSP ($12900-$13900, according to Edmunds)...

Suggestions, Opinions, anyone? Or should I just be thankful that I walked away from that collision?

Bob

raybear

Personally, I'd lean toward a new car. The damage could even be worse than the estimate once they get inside and I don't know that the insurance will cover you for 2 months of a rental, one month is the norm.

leo2633

If it was me, I think I'd find a way to go for a new one. I'd never feel comfortable in a car that had sustained that much damage, no matter how well the repairs were done. I'd always be concerned about issues that may not be obvious at this point, but which could crop up in the future.

The car did its job in the collision. It protected its passengers. Time to move on to another(in my opinion).

Len

lfdal

My last car before I went with Subarus was a 99 Mercury Sable. I was in two accidents in the space of 4 months. In both accidents the car sustained high dollar damage, but no subframe damage.

In my front end accident, both airbags deployed, and the net cost was similar to yours, almost 4k by the time they did the bags, sensors, computer, and windshield, etc.

In one case due to parts availability, the car was out of service for 2 months. The other guys insurance footed a month of it, and mine told me "tough luck" for the other month. Almost $900 out of pocket on the rental car for an accident that wasn't even my fault. That went down a little tough.

Bottom line for me would have been subframe damage. From what I've seen, once there's subframe damage they're just never the same again, regardless of the quality of repairs.

If you can swing it, I'd go for a new car.

Just my 0.02.

Larry

stever

Because of the systems upgrade, the Subaru Chat is getting bumped tonight. Apologies!

For your forum fix while we're shut down, check out the blogs, especially Bob's in Straightline.

Steve, Host

poodog13

I agree with the others, get out of this car and into a new one. Even the best repair job has its limits, and there is likely to be something unforseen down the road.

If you do end up getting it fixed, I'd greatly consider buying a beater instead of renting for two months, depending on how much your out of pocket for rental will be. At least that way you'd have something to resell in the end instead of simply giving it all the rental company. Look for a FSBO in your area that's been listed for a while and low ball him with your offer, he's likely to take it.

Also, talk to your insurance agent about suspending your car insurance coverage during the period where you will be without the vehicle. Could save you an extra couple hundred bucks depending on your coverage.

andrelaplume

Haggle with the ins company a bit. Is the $29 a day car about the same as the Forester? Is it an AWD car. I bet you can one AEWD somewhere and it would cost more. Maybe they will see the light if you can get the costs up a bit. Also, you gotta believe there will some ad-hoc issues after the car is back and that you'll likley be trying to get them to pay for these as well. Why not see what they will give and look for a low mileage 02...?

jpfkk

First and foremost, you are safe and that is the most important thing. Thank goodness. The rest is just a few numbers here and there. Not to downplay the money issue but that is all it is--money.

I really appreciate hearing how other people handle things like this. It is good to see the different strategies.

As for me, I don't like to be pressured into situations. I think people make decisions they later regret when they make them in haste. So, for the holidays, rent a car (or keep the rental). State Farm should cover that. My first strategy would be to get through the holidays.

Second, you can't keep the car you have. The repair costs are too high and I would be very leery of "engine mount damage." You have no guarantee that if you spend the money other problems will not crop up--problems you can't see now.

Third, you can't get sentimental. I know, I know, it is easy. But, it is just a car and being sentimental will cloud your judgement. Besides, you could just as easily get very sentimental about a new car.

Finally, I would sit down with a salesperson at the dealership and ask them for their "advice." Layout the situation and ask them to work up some numbers if you were to make the leap to a new car. Have them put together a proposal (their best proposal). That way, you will have a strong alternative. There are some offers from Subaru, I think, such as cashback, etc. The gap may not be as big as you think. My goal would be to enlist them into the problem solving and see what they come up with.

Of course, that's just me. I look forward to hearing how it turns out. In either case, you are already ahead. You are safe and healthy.

drwales

We currently have a Camry, which even my wife refers to as a washing machine. It was all Hertz had available when we went. State Farm and Hertz have agreed that an Outback is an allowable swap, but they are (it is?) still taken. We bought a Forester as much for hauling stuff to Grandma's for Christmas and muddy dog purposes as anything, so we'd like to get in a wagon sooner rather than later.

You're right about a new used one; there is an '04 Turbo around for $19k, but 35k miles... We bought the '03 Forester a month before the '04s (and thus turbos) came out, but we couldn't wait back then. How evolutionary/ revolutionary is the '06 (anything other than AVCS?) to warrant an upgrade? I don't think I'm inclined to go back to the old body style...

Bob

prosa

I can't understand the part about two months for repairs. Even a complicated job shouldn't take nearly so long. If you let your agent know about the situation, State Farm might pressure the repair shop to get the work done sooner (delays are costly for SF, of course).

lfdal

The problem is if they get into the middle of it and it turns out there's a part with a lot longer lead time than what they thought. Or if they've misjudged the structural damage and need to order more parts, etc.

In the case of my Sable, It was a lousy door handle that took the extra time (4 weeks), but for safety reasons they (by law) couldn't give me the car back .

Larry

damish003

With structural damage, it can take quite a while to get done. When my OBS was wrecked in Dec. 03, it took 6 weeks or more to get the work done. Similar to the Forester damage, but on the rear, and much more extensive. Initial estimate was 10k, ended up around 14k. That's a lot on a 04 OBS, yes? The repair has worked out just fine, but I'd be leary of engine mount damage like the Forester has.

Subaru has very particular requirements as to fixing frame work, etc., so the estimated amount of time to fix the Forester probably isn't unusual. The repair shop can show the customer what specifically is involved in the repair, which is enough data to make your eyes glaze over. Trust me on that one.

Hope this works out well.

-Dan-

ateixeira

I'd get a new one or a newer used one.

You don't want to get sentimental over what should be a rational and economical decision.

Just look at it this way, imagine the repair bill for that Volvo!

Plus, it's more efficient overall for them to part yours out. Yours will end up helping someone that was rear-ended hard.

-juice

gagecalman

Hi Scott. I just put a set of Yokohama AVID H4s on my Buick LeSabre. These are the best tires I've ever owned. I know the Buick is different than the Forester. These tires are very quiet and handle great in all conditions. When our 2005 XT needs tires I will put these on. There is some great info and reviews on tirerack.com. I hope this helps. Jim

samiam_68

I will also be putting Yoko Avid H4S's on my FXT next year. I just put them on my mother's Lexus today - a truly awesome ride with these.

drwales

The Volvo is totalled.

I'm trying to persuade them to total our Forester, so we can get a new one. As I think I've mentioned before, the repair estimate is $10500 (airbags alone are $4k!). According to TMV and Kelley BB, our car is worth somewhere in the region of $13000, so repairs are >80% of value. The dealers just use KBB as well. However, according to State Farm, the car is worth $18400, and won't be totalled until repairs reach 80% of that!

When I explained that I paid $23k for it new 2.5 years ago, her only explanation was "Well you did buy a very good car!" I did, but now it's less good of a car than it was 2 weeks ago. Transferring me to the "Total Loss" division, the man there thought that simply being in a collision with a totalled Volvo should imply that the other car would be totalled. He will send another rep out to the body shop Monday morning to reassess the decision to total, and so hopefully everything will be resolved by Tuesday. Then we can move on to the next step:

Fitzgerald quoted me $21800 for a 2006 X Premium (closest in spec to our 2003) and $25400 for an XT, which while not having less than the option list we'd like are both $800 below TMV... Those seem pretty reasonable to me, based on the "Prices Paid" Forum, but I guess we really need for State Farm to make a (favourable) decision...

Bob

toasterpilot

80%--would you have a good car if 79% of it's value was replaced? Either way, it would be a lot of work to fix that car.

My wife has a Honda Civic that was in a front-end accident. Over the years there has been one problem after another that could be attributed to the stress of that impact--pumps failing, premature rusting of body parts, noises, poor ride, etc.

I paid about $9K for my Forester (used) and it's perfect. For much less than the want to settle for, you could have a great new ride.

BTW, my Outback was totalled a year and a half ago but the passenger compartment was intact.

p0926

The OE battery isn't exactly the best for cold cranking amps. In fact, many owners who live in areas where it gets really cold go ahead and put in a heavy duty battery. And yes, it's rediculous that a manufacturer whose primary markets are New England and the mountains states would not provide a good cold weather battery :-(

-Frank

njswamplands

ateixeira

according to State Farm, the car is worth $18400

Holy cow, no wonder you want it totalled!

Try to negotiate a settlement with them, ask for the $13-14k you could probably get on your own.

Cold Starts: my stock battery had a wimpy 260 CCAs, though automatics have beefier batteries and I think newer models have better ones.

Make sure the fluid levels are OK, add distilled water if they're not. Wear gloves and eye protection when you service the battery! :shades:

-juice

samiam_68

Subaru OEM batteries are total junk. After two years, I ditched mine, and got a Sears Diehard Weatherhandler. Now it cranks normally in any temperature.

drwales

according to State Farm, the car is worth $18400

Holy cow, no wonder you want it totalled!


They made the decision to total it yesterday, after a more thorough examination of the damage. The settlement offer is pretty close to the above figure (!) and includes the costs of DC taxes and registration, which I wasn't expecting. They'll also cover the costs of a new toddler seat.

The question now is to replace it with a 2006 X Premium MT5, or a 2006 XT MT5? I think we now have our weekend planned.

Requiescat in pace.
Bob

prosa

They made the decision to total it yesterday, after a more thorough examination of the damage. The settlement offer is pretty close to the above figure (!) and includes the costs of DC taxes and registration, which I wasn't expecting. They'll also cover the costs of a new toddler seat.

I don't know, I suppose this is a good outcome in some respects, but the idea of a repairable vehicle being tossed on a scrap heap at an insurance company's whim sort of bothers me. Unfortunately, the insurance companies get to call the shots.
In a way it's a pity that airbag replacement is so preposterously overpriced. No doubt that has contributed in a big way to the increasing number of lightly damaged cars that end up in junk yards. And believe me, I see plenty of that, with flatbeds hauling vehicles to several nearby junk yards being a common sight near where I live.

The question now is to replace it with a 2006 X Premium MT5, or a 2006 XT MT5?

Well, I find that my 2006 X has more than enough power even without the turbo, especially since I have the 5-speed. My suggestion would be the X Premium.

once_for_all

agreed, X premium. Mine is an '03 XS with 8 less horsepower and has more than enough, under all conditions, to break the speed limits.

John

dstew1

Yeah, but once you break the speed limit can you also outrun the cop?

The updated X has more than adequate power. The XT is for those of us who are drawn to sports sedans but for practical reasons needed an AWD stuff hauler - but we still need to feel a few stomach-floating Gs from time to time.

If you've already been successfully converted to the more practical NA Forester, then you will probably be ok with the X.

ateixeira

Don't sweat it, you got more than a fair offer and don't have to worry about it "not being like it used to".

The parts will end up at a recycler like this one:

http://www.fsautoparts.com/

-juice

drwales

The 03XS that we had was certainly sufficient for DC, and we know that the XT is probably more than we need right now. The driving factor is the possibility of (re-) relocating to 5000 feet within the next couple of years.

I know the new engines have variable valve timing. There should be some effect mitigating the lack of oxygen -- advancing the timing, effectively -- but I can't wrap my head around the physics/ engineering right now.

Still, there is a consensus here towards the X Premium.

Bob

once_for_all

Bob,

5,000 ft changes things. I change my vote to the XT.

John

p0926

The X is the better value but effortless acceleration when going over mountain passes is priceless!

-Frank

ateixeira

Yeah, you can pass those slow-moving Lamborghinis.

-juice

PS C&D's 50th Ann. Issue quoted the Countache 5000S at 0-60 in 5.4 seconds, the Forester XT in 5.3.

swwj

Since we now have our '06 F-XT, I have an exteme bias towards the turbo. Of course, I also had a tough time spending that much money on an "X" that would actually be less powerful, heavier and slower than my 9-year old Nissan Maxima.

I thought about getting the X, but knew in my heart that I would have regretted not getting the beast-turbo with every car payment I make for the next four years.

Of course, YMMV, good luck in whatever you decide, both are great cars.

dstew1

I can relate to swwj. I got the XT because I knew if I hadn't I'd always have the urge to upgrade within the next few years.

Instead I got all the car I could possibly want for the forseeable future. Sure, it puts a bigger dent in my wallet - but it also gives me peace of mind.

stever

Yep, there really is a Subaru Crew chat tonight. Join us in about 3 hours for real time conversation - the link is on the left, or you can click on the chat graphic at the top of the page.

Steve, Host

rsholland

Subaru of Germany has just released a new Forester model model targeted towards the fairer sex, with accents of hot pink: The Forester Lady.

http://www.subarunews.net/news/news20051214.htm

Bob

prosa

Subaru of Germany has just released a new Forester model model targeted towards the fairer sex, with accents of hot pink: The Forester Lady.

I thought that Subarus already were popular among women, though the type who prefer flannel shirts and workboots to hot pink, if you catch my drift

rsholland

Think of it as Germany's answer to the "Mary Kay Edition,"

Bob

raybear

36,000 Euros?

grahampeters

G'day

It looks to be a pretty rough photoshop fiddle on an existing photo. Colours look ex tremely faked.

Site layout also looks a bit amateurish

Cheers

Graham

xtsfo

I saw an earlier post about a GrillCraft hood scoop insert
being one of the best things you did for your XT. Was this an 06 XT? Which particular GrillCraft part did you order? They're not up to '06 yet and I don't know exactly WHICH GrillCraft "Impreza" part is going to fit an '06 Forester XT...