I don't think your mechanic's right. In fact, the 96-98 Phase I DOHC engines call for platinum plugs to extend the change intervals (harder to reach than with the current SOHC model).
I've read stories over at i-club about people getting better engine response with platinum plugs too.
Should the cost of an oil change *ever* be an issue? At a (generous) $24 a pop, we 3K guys/gals are in the hole about $300 over 7 years compared to 7.5K changers. (7 years being my average ownership of a vehicle.) I think most people can hack $41/year for the best thing they can do for their "babies" to keep them running cool and clean and smooth! ;0)
I finally got to see and sit in the new Forester at the Minneapolis Auto Show. I think every American family would want two or three of these in the driveway.
Hi, we were away for a few days in Albuquerque. Quite exciting: so many Subarus on the streets. Not so many as in Colorado Springs, say; but many and in in many varieties. It was good to get Yuki out and let her run -- it's about 220 miles from here up to the Duke City (Albuquerque), and lots of hills to scoot up and down.
Yuki Yama Hime: We did indeed intend to name our car Snow Mountian Princess, in Japanese, to honor her origins, and to honor our reasons for buying her. We live in southern New Mexico. We like to go into the mountains -- the Gila and Sacrementos are closest, but we go all over. The highest mountain in southern NM is in the Sacramentos, and is named Sierra Blanca, that is White Mountain. It is named White Mountain because it gets snow first and the snow lasts there longest. We go skiing near Sierra Blanca when we can (it's the next peak over from Sierra Blanca, Sierra Blanca is sacred to the Mescalero Apache), as often as weather, work, and snowfall allow. The road up to the ski area, Ski Apache, is quite an experience, especially when it's snowpacked: twelve miles of hairpin switchbacks. Hence, any car that will get us to the top in good shape and with minimal fear is to be highly praised, and shall forever reign in our hearts as the Snow Mountain (White Mountain, Sierra Blanca) Princess. Plus, we like the sound of it.
Sorry, Jim, but I didn't get in the back. I don't know the old Forester, so I would have had no basis for comparison. And when I buy my Forester the back seat will get flopped down and never put upright again, so back seat room isn't an issue. I have only two passengers: the ladies I date (and they get to sit up front) and the current woman in my life, Katie, an English setter who rides in a crate.
Since I don't know the old interior, I can't say if this is "better" or not. Very nice, though. Very nice. This isn't an Altima!
Juice has a Forester and a Miata, and his wife has a 626. Check the Legacy/Outback board #4942 for details. I mentioned Altima because it has been hailed as "car of the year," yet its interior is disappointing enough to spark several hundred Edmunds posts.
I was looking through my new UK Forester brochure and noticed the following items:
• There are three trim levels: Turbo, All-Weather, and base.
• Turbo has hood scoop; and it has a black mesh grille, like the Canadian Sport model.
• "All-Weather" model looks like our "S" model, except it has 15" steel wheels.
• Turbo and All-Weather models get our "All-Weather Package."
• Turbo and All-Weather get large moonroof, colored body cladding, and side airbags.
• Turbo is available in both monochromatic or colored cladding.
• All UK Foresters have 2.0L engines.
• All UK Foresters get the self-leveling rear suspension.
• All UK Foresters get headlight washers.
• All UK Foresters get a headlight adjustment switch, with several positions to vertically aim the headlights. (Actually, I think this is common on many if not all UK cars).
• ABS is only on turbo Foresters.
• 16" alloy wheels are only on turbo Foresters.
• All UK Foresters get blackwall tires.
• All UK Foresters get roof rails, but not cross bars.
• All UK manual Foresters get the Hill-Holder clutch.
• All UK manual Foresters, except the turbo, get a dual-range tranny.
• All UK base-trim Foresters do not have front fog lamps.
• All UK Foresters have different radios than we have.
I've had my '02 Forester S w/leather for 6 months and 2.5 weeks and it just won't stay clean. Then again, it's only been raining once a month recently, if that.
Everything else is just peachy. It took me a while, but I figured out all of the controls on the am/fm/cassette/6-cd player.
I even tried the rear wiper the other week, just for the heck of it, and it worked as advertised. The squirter, too. Still don't know who drives around in reverse enough to need a fancy wiper.
I guess I should see about having it detailed and having the air in the tires changed. You don't change the air in your tires? Don't you think it gets worn out and loses it springiness and makes the car ride a little harsher? No? Okay
Does anyone have the date for 2003 Foresters to begin arrival at dealerships? Also, does anyone have info. on the amount of rear legroom for 2003 models as compared to previous models?
I was set to purchase the 2002 Forester but when I went to Japanese Subaru site and found lots of info about the 2003 Forester, I decided to wait for the 2003 model. Storyteller, could you please tell me if the sitting position in the 2003 model is higher than the regular sedans? Thank you very much in advance. (I heard the older model is only about the same height as sedans. That's the only thing I didn't like about the Forester.)
That's one reason I couldn't go for the Forester. I know many don't care about seating height, it's the mechanicals, etc. that count but that is what I enjoy most about my mini SUV.
Planning on attending the Denver Auto show this Thursday. If the '03 Forester is there, I'll check out the rear seat room (I have an '01 S+ MT for comparison).
I'll also ask about the hill-holder clutch, brake booster and other mod options for the original generation Foresters using '03 parts. This show has been staffed well in the past with tech-savvy factory reps, so I'm hopeful for this year's show.
You guys have any other questions you want me to follow up on ?
By the way, the MT model in '01 had significantly more leg room on the driver's side than the AT model did.
I'm not sure if there is a difference in the seat track or the firewall, but in the AT, I need to sit all the way back to be comfortable and can still easily reach the firewall with my foot.
In the MT I can't and still fully depress the clutch (which hits the firewall when I fully depress it, so the reach is the same - actually more so, because of the depth of the pedal itself).
Back seat room seemed comparable with the seat adjusted to my driving position, so go figure. File it under Ripley's ...
OT: FWIW, I'll also be looking hard at the '02 MPV. You can post to that discussion if you have something you want me to check out there.
Thanks for the reply. I understand the Altima comment. I am most familiar with Nissan/Infiniti vehicles. From that, I like what you said. All in all, I am 99% sure to buy the 2003 Forester. Waiting on the dealer to give me prices.
I'm considering the tweeter-and-speaker upgrade. A couple weeks ago someone said the tweeters fit in the door above the latch. That confused me, because our 02 S+ already has small speakers there. So do the upgraded tweeters replace those speakers? Or are they added at the interior of the side mirror housings, as in my Legacy sedan?
Here's a quote from the Subaru '03 press release: "While retaining the overall dimensions of the original vehicle, the new Forester has a lower ground clearance (200mm) than before and a higher seating position (the hip point for the driver is 600mm) to give a better field of view."
I found the new Forester comfortable to get in and out of. Tried an Outback, and found I was sitting down a long distance as I got in the car, so the hip point of the new Forester is clearly higher than that of the OBs.
Has anyone else experienced excess oil consumption with their forester? my '99 has done about 39K miles and has been burning about 1 quart every 1,000 miles since it was new. the dealer replaced a cylinder head at about 10,000 miles, but this hasn't solved anything. i keep running out of oil.
also, my clutch shudders violently, but the dealer is "unable to replicate"
Although you might hear "that is within limits", 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles is excessive. Since you have a 5yr/60k mile warranty on the powertrain, I would push the dealer to fix it. Also, call 800-SUBARU3 and open a case on your problem. Keep all records. Going to synthetic oil (mobil 1 for example) will help, but, you have a problem that should be corrected. Keep us informed.
I know that the Forester has been redesigned for 2003 and will be out in later this spring. It is also rumored that a Turbo engine will be introduced in 2004. My question is ... if the Turbo engine is introduced next what would the timeframe be? Spring 2004, one year after introduction? Or might they introduce it sooner or even later that one year after the 2003 is introduced? Also, any estimates at the price difference between non-turbo and turbo Forester?
I know that this is a guessing game, but any input would be appreciated.
I am looking at getting a new car within the year. I was really planning on getting something within the next six months, but I can go another 6 months if the turbo Forester is offered in that timeframe.
Some background: I have test driven the 2002 Outback, Forester, and Impreza WRX Sport Wagon. While I was impressed with the Outback and Forester, I was not impressed with the engine. I test drove the 4 cylinder with an automatic. (Yes, I want an automatic, been driving a stick for 20 years and I finally have grown tired of shifting in stop and go traffic.) Now, I was impressed with the Impreza WRX Sport Wagon with the automatic tranmission. But I feel that the Impreza WRX Sport Wagon is not large enough for my needs. So, I was hoping that the Forester mated with a turbo would suit my needs.
I also test drove the Outback with the 6 cylinder, but I really do not want to pay that much ~ $30,000+ US just to get it.
I'm going to guess here and say that the turbo Forester will be introduced on Subaru's "normal" schedule and appear in the fall of 2004.
Price-wise, nothing has been disclosed. I don't even think Subaru knows at this point. You might want to check Subaru sites in other countries and check what the price delta is between a turbo and non-turbo models.
I received confirmation earlier this afternoon from Subaru America that the Denver show will have both the new Forester and the Baja.
I'll try to get some pics on Sunday and (after developing the film - then scanning the prints [seems so archaic now] post them on my new web site later next week.
During my first 6000 miles my 2002 forester L used a little less than a quart of oil. I was told that during break-in period this is ok. In reference to your clutch chattering, this car has the worst clutch I have ever seen in a new vehicle of any kind. It is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] and very surprising from a Subaru. The problem is intermittent so every morning its a toss up to see if this car is going to behave or not!!!I have heard that others have this complaint also. Mike
Quite often, when a topic about other possible model variations are discussed, one of the arguments that often pops forward as to why it's not practical is: "Subaru is a small company, and therefore can't afford to venture into ."
Well okay, if that's the case, why are there so many variations of Subarus being offered from market to market? I can understand the need for legal reasons, but it boggles my mind when I see so many "slightly" different takes on silly things.
A few examples found on the new Forester, in which the Japanese and North American models differ in (silly) ways:
• Different center consoles. Why?
• Different front cupholder solutions. Why?
• Different center armrests. North America gets a center console armrests, whereas Japan gets fold-down seat-mounted front armrests. Why?
• Japanese Foresters get a rear center fold-down seat armrest. We don't. Why?
I could go on forever; the list of these types of examples is endless. The point is, if they standardized a lot of these items, from an international standpoint, it would streamline production and trim costs significantly. Those saved costs could then be funneled into other (new and different) models.
To the best of my knowledge, the European brands don't have this many variations of their models. It just seems DUMB to me that Subaru does...
I've thought about that too and the only thing it can be is that the cost savings from offering less-fancy equipment on NA bound models is greater than having mutiple parts in inventory.
As for the center console, I think part of it has to do with the fact that DVD-navigation systems are a lot more popular in Japan vs. NA. Also, the big emphasis on cupholders over here has probably led to what we see in the 2003 Forester -- the JDM model gets a single, pop-out cupholder next to the stereo whereas the NA model has two molded spaces built into the armrest console.
It's not a matter of being "less fancy." It's more a matter of just being "different." Not better, not worse; just different. I guess the argument is that other markets have different tastes. Perhaps, but I think it's a weak argument to justify the added costs that are associated with all the different variations on the same theme. To me, it's not money well spent.
As to the center console, I'm referring to what's between the seats too; not just the dash.
If the 2003 gains about an inch, that would put it on par with the Outback, so maybe it will be tolerable after all.....especially if they have redsigned the front seatbacks for more kneeroom. Still ain't limo-like like the CR-V, but at least an improvement.
I don't think it's a weak argument if a company can improve their bottom line by offering variations. I'm guessing here, but I'd say the JDM spec seats, for example, cost more than the NA version. Is it not conceivable that Subaru saves money by offering lower cost seats to the US than to standardize with the more expensive JDM ones?
I perceive the JDM stuff as being "better". I'd personally like it if Subaru standardized also but I was thinking with my business hat on.
Perhaps. I'm not a business expert, but logic just tells me if you standardize items, rather than offer a multitude of variations, that would be the cheaper way in the long run, especially as far as international markets are concerned.
Hello. My mother is in her 60's, lives in the Chicago area and is considering a Forester, CR-V, and maybe even an Escape. I noticed that the automatic S models have a viscous limited-slip rear differential and the L does not. I don't even know what that is. Can someone here help me figure out if my mom really needs this just to drive around town in the Chicagoland winters? She will never go off-road and price is a big factor in the decision making process. She can do without the comfort features of the S. Thanks in advance for you help.
Yes, you are right about there being manufacturing process and inventory costs of having multiple "flavors" of one part. It is cheaper to deal with one part on a per-unit basis.
However, the other variable you need to consider is the relative volume of each part. Remember, NA is Subaru's largest market for the Forester. After a certain volume, the cost savings of using a cheaper part is going to outweigh the added cost of stocking it.
There's a classic cost-accounting example that highlights this effect often called "Red pens, blue pens".
No, your mother does not need it. It's just added traction insurance, that's all. What it does is, if one rear tire is slipping, it will send power to the other rear wheel, since it has a better grip. There are plenty of Subaru owners without the VC, who are perfectly happy with their year-round traction. Think of the VC as frosting on the cake, it's nice to have, but you don't "need" it.
Well, the CR-V and Escape don't have limited-slip axles either, even as options, so at worst you're looking at a truly full-time AWD system on the L with better traction than either of the other choices (part-time reactive AWD).
But a rear viscous limited slip differential allows power to shift from side to side on the rear axle. AWD lets power shift fore and aft, so the rear LSD adds yet another level of safety.
Even without it, my Forester is great in the snow. Put on snow tires and it's hard to beat.
Altima? I test drove one because we were considering trading in the wife's car. It's powerful and fun, and I like the styling. The folks in the Altima thread are pretty brutal about the interior, while I think cost cutting has happened at Honda and Toyota, too, so I see little difference.
They also yell about the MSRP, which can hit $30k, but real world prices are more like $22-26k.
They actually miss all the important draw backs on that car: overboosted steering, torque steer, and terrible shifter feel.
Seat height? What about using spacers? You could probably get it an inch higher. I did that on my Miata.
Mo: sounds like you already have the tweeters.
Clutch shudder - try using less throttle. It's smoother at 1200rpm than it is at higher rpm. I have my original clutch and it's still strong.
I'm sure you know what you're talking about. I've often wondered why Ford decided to offer a F-250/350 Super Duty pickup, that is decidedly different (cab, front clip, fenders) from the F-150. Maybe your volume theory is the answer.
I've thought about this, too. I'm sure Ken is right as to why they do it. I guess you'd have to make a business case for it - that better materials are worth paying more for, because it'll bring in more customers, and you can increase sales volume (or price).
Often the bean counters will work backwards. What can we use to make this a $20k vehicle? And then they find materials that fit that budget.
I would like to see disc brakes become standard across the board. ABS already is, but only in the USA.
The F150/250(LD) and F250(SD)/350/450/Super Duty styling differences were done because the F150/250 were not perceived as tough looking enough for the typical customer of the heavier trucks. Many people I know refer to the F150 as a "girly" truck. Image was and is a huge factor in truck sales.
I understand that. I guess the question is, if that's the case, why didn't they make the F-150 look more butch from the get-go?
One argument I heard was, that it's easier to change if the market deems it necessary—meaning it's easier to change (just) the F-150, than the whole pickup lineup. Still, it's almost doubling your parts inventory. Again, I'm not a business expert, but to me that just seems wasteful.
Look at the Tonka - that hints that the next F-150 may indeed get the look. It just takes a while, suppliers have to retool and/or add capacity.
I don't get the whole face-lift thing, where a model gets several new panels after 2 years on the market. Most face-lifts only make cars look uglier, yet it increases costs. Go figure. The 2001 Forester is an exception, it looks better.
I live in the Chgo area and the wife owns a 2002 S+. As juice said, it's "frosting" if you plan to stick to paved roads as you indicated. Nice to have but the full-time AWD is what sold my wife on the Forester. BTW, the Forester, in my opinion, is superior to the CR-V and RAV-4, plus it generally has higher crash safety ratings. Ron
I really wonder when this whole "macho, up-sizing" of pickups is going to end? I tried having a (reasonable) discussion over on the pickup forms on this, and it turned into an ugly slug-fest; eventually having the topic closed...
Comments
Yep, like Mike mentioned, those are odometer readings. The first change comes sooner due to the engine break in period.
Ken
I don't think your mechanic's right. In fact, the 96-98 Phase I DOHC engines call for platinum plugs to extend the change intervals (harder to reach than with the current SOHC model).
I've read stories over at i-club about people getting better engine response with platinum plugs too.
Ken
Bob
Thanks,
Jim J.
Yuki Yama Hime: We did indeed intend to name our car Snow Mountian Princess, in Japanese, to honor her origins, and to honor our reasons for buying her. We live in southern New Mexico. We like to go into the mountains -- the Gila and Sacrementos are closest, but we go all over. The highest mountain in southern NM is in the Sacramentos, and is named Sierra Blanca, that is White Mountain. It is named White Mountain because it gets snow first and the snow lasts there longest. We go skiing near Sierra Blanca when we can (it's the next peak over from Sierra Blanca, Sierra Blanca is sacred to the Mescalero Apache), as often as weather, work, and snowfall allow. The road up to the ski area, Ski Apache, is quite an experience, especially when it's snowpacked: twelve miles of hairpin switchbacks. Hence, any car that will get us to the top in good shape and with minimal fear is to be highly praised, and shall forever reign in our hearts as the Snow Mountain (White Mountain, Sierra Blanca) Princess. Plus, we like the sound of it.
Since I don't know the old interior, I can't say if this is "better" or not. Very nice, though. Very nice. This isn't an Altima!
• There are three trim levels: Turbo, All-Weather, and base.
• Turbo has hood scoop; and it has a black mesh grille, like the Canadian Sport model.
• "All-Weather" model looks like our "S" model, except it has 15" steel wheels.
• Turbo and All-Weather models get our "All-Weather Package."
• Turbo and All-Weather get large moonroof, colored body cladding, and side airbags.
• Turbo is available in both monochromatic or colored cladding.
• All UK Foresters have 2.0L engines.
• All UK Foresters get the self-leveling rear suspension.
• All UK Foresters get headlight washers.
• All UK Foresters get a headlight adjustment switch, with several positions to vertically aim the headlights. (Actually, I think this is common on many if not all UK cars).
• ABS is only on turbo Foresters.
• 16" alloy wheels are only on turbo Foresters.
• All UK Foresters get blackwall tires.
• All UK Foresters get roof rails, but not cross bars.
• All UK manual Foresters get the Hill-Holder clutch.
• All UK manual Foresters, except the turbo, get a dual-range tranny.
• All UK base-trim Foresters do not have front fog lamps.
• All UK Foresters have different radios than we have.
Bob
Everything else is just peachy. It took me a while, but I figured out all of the controls on the am/fm/cassette/6-cd player.
I even tried the rear wiper the other week, just for the heck of it, and it worked as advertised. The squirter, too. Still don't know who drives around in reverse enough to need a fancy wiper.
I guess I should see about having it detailed and having the air in the tires changed. You don't change the air in your tires? Don't you think it gets worn out and loses it springiness and makes the car ride a little harsher? No? Okay
Later.
John
The 2003 Forester should be in dealer showrooms starting the end of May. Rear legroom has increased a little over 1".
Ken
Gene
I'll also ask about the hill-holder clutch, brake booster and other mod options for the original generation Foresters using '03 parts. This show has been staffed well in the past with tech-savvy factory reps, so I'm hopeful for this year's show.
You guys have any other questions you want me to follow up on ?
By the way, the MT model in '01 had significantly more leg room on the driver's side than the AT model did.
I'm not sure if there is a difference in the seat track or the firewall, but in the AT, I need to sit all the way back to be comfortable and can still easily reach the firewall with my foot.
In the MT I can't and still fully depress the clutch (which hits the firewall when I fully depress it, so the reach is the same - actually more so, because of the depth of the pedal itself).
Back seat room seemed comparable with the seat adjusted to my driving position, so go figure. File it under Ripley's ...
OT: FWIW, I'll also be looking hard at the '02 MPV. You can post to that discussion if you have something you want me to check out there.
Cheers,
-bv
Jim J.
Mo
I found the new Forester comfortable to get in and out of. Tried an Outback, and found I was sitting down a long distance as I got in the car, so the hip point of the new Forester is clearly higher than that of the OBs.
Hope this helps.
also, my clutch shudders violently, but the dealer is "unable to replicate"
thanks
robbin
Greg
I know that the Forester has been redesigned for 2003 and will be out in later this spring. It is also rumored that a Turbo engine will be introduced in 2004. My question is ... if the Turbo engine is introduced next what would the timeframe be? Spring 2004, one year after introduction? Or might they introduce it sooner or even later that one year after the 2003 is introduced? Also, any estimates at the price difference between non-turbo and turbo Forester?
I know that this is a guessing game, but any input would be appreciated.
I am looking at getting a new car within the year. I was really planning on getting something within the next six months, but I can go another 6 months if the turbo Forester is offered in that timeframe.
Some background: I have test driven the 2002 Outback, Forester, and Impreza WRX Sport Wagon. While I was impressed with the Outback and Forester, I was not impressed with the engine. I test drove the 4 cylinder with an automatic. (Yes, I want an automatic, been driving a stick for 20 years and I finally have grown tired of shifting in stop and go traffic.) Now, I was impressed with the Impreza WRX Sport Wagon with the automatic tranmission. But I feel that the Impreza WRX Sport Wagon is not large enough for my needs. So, I was hoping that the Forester mated with a turbo would suit my needs.
I also test drove the Outback with the 6 cylinder, but I really do not want to pay that much ~ $30,000+ US just to get it.
Thanks in advance,
Eric
Price-wise, nothing has been disclosed. I don't even think Subaru knows at this point. You might want to check Subaru sites in other countries and check what the price delta is between a turbo and non-turbo models.
Ken
I received confirmation earlier this afternoon from Subaru America that the Denver show will have both the new Forester and the Baja.
I'll try to get some pics on Sunday and (after developing the film - then scanning the prints [seems so archaic now]
-tom
There's also pictures of the '03 Forester there too, along with practically everything else at the show.
No Subaru pics from the Milwaukee Auto Show, but nonetheless, those are here: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292019983
-Brian
Well okay, if that's the case, why are there so many variations of Subarus being offered from market to market? I can understand the need for legal reasons, but it boggles my mind when I see so many "slightly" different takes on silly things.
A few examples found on the new Forester, in which the Japanese and North American models differ in (silly) ways:
• Different center consoles. Why?
• Different front cupholder solutions. Why?
• Different center armrests. North America gets a center console armrests, whereas Japan gets fold-down seat-mounted front armrests. Why?
• Japanese Foresters get a rear center fold-down seat armrest. We don't. Why?
I could go on forever; the list of these types of examples is endless. The point is, if they standardized a lot of these items, from an international standpoint, it would streamline production and trim costs significantly. Those saved costs could then be funneled into other (new and different) models.
To the best of my knowledge, the European brands don't have this many variations of their models. It just seems DUMB to me that Subaru does...
Bob
I've thought about that too and the only thing it can be is that the cost savings from offering less-fancy equipment on NA bound models is greater than having mutiple parts in inventory.
As for the center console, I think part of it has to do with the fact that DVD-navigation systems are a lot more popular in Japan vs. NA. Also, the big emphasis on cupholders over here has probably led to what we see in the 2003 Forester -- the JDM model gets a single, pop-out cupholder next to the stereo whereas the NA model has two molded spaces built into the armrest console.
Ken
As to the center console, I'm referring to what's between the seats too; not just the dash.
Bob
Still ain't limo-like like the CR-V, but at least an improvement.
Bob
thanks,
I don't think it's a weak argument if a company can improve their bottom line by offering variations. I'm guessing here, but I'd say the JDM spec seats, for example, cost more than the NA version. Is it not conceivable that Subaru saves money by offering lower cost seats to the US than to standardize with the more expensive JDM ones?
I perceive the JDM stuff as being "better". I'd personally like it if Subaru standardized also but I was thinking with my business hat on.
Ken
Bob
Tickets sold at the door for $9.
See www.denverautoshow.com (google is my friend
I'm going tonight rather than tomorrow afterall.
HTH
However, the other variable you need to consider is the relative volume of each part. Remember, NA is Subaru's largest market for the Forester. After a certain volume, the cost savings of using a cheaper part is going to outweigh the added cost of stocking it.
There's a classic cost-accounting example that highlights this effect often called "Red pens, blue pens".
Ken
Bob
But a rear viscous limited slip differential allows power to shift from side to side on the rear axle. AWD lets power shift fore and aft, so the rear LSD adds yet another level of safety.
Even without it, my Forester is great in the snow. Put on snow tires and it's hard to beat.
Altima? I test drove one because we were considering trading in the wife's car. It's powerful and fun, and I like the styling. The folks in the Altima thread are pretty brutal about the interior, while I think cost cutting has happened at Honda and Toyota, too, so I see little difference.
They also yell about the MSRP, which can hit $30k, but real world prices are more like $22-26k.
They actually miss all the important draw backs on that car: overboosted steering, torque steer, and terrible shifter feel.
Seat height? What about using spacers? You could probably get it an inch higher. I did that on my Miata.
Mo: sounds like you already have the tweeters.
Clutch shudder - try using less throttle. It's smoother at 1200rpm than it is at higher rpm. I have my original clutch and it's still strong.
-juice
It still seem strange to me, however.
Bob
Often the bean counters will work backwards. What can we use to make this a $20k vehicle? And then they find materials that fit that budget.
I would like to see disc brakes become standard across the board. ABS already is, but only in the USA.
-juice
One argument I heard was, that it's easier to change if the market deems it necessary—meaning it's easier to change (just) the F-150, than the whole pickup lineup. Still, it's almost doubling your parts inventory. Again, I'm not a business expert, but to me that just seems wasteful.
Bob
I don't get the whole face-lift thing, where a model gets several new panels after 2 years on the market. Most face-lifts only make cars look uglier, yet it increases costs. Go figure. The 2001 Forester is an exception, it looks better.
-juice
Ron
I really wonder when this whole "macho, up-sizing" of pickups is going to end? I tried having a (reasonable) discussion over on the pickup forms on this, and it turned into an ugly slug-fest; eventually having the topic closed...
Bob