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Intermittent no-start problem with Nissan Murano 2010
I have a 2010 Nissan Murano SL AWD that is a clean title with 125K miles and I am the second owner. As of lately, I swear this car is possessed.
Here's the deal- The car will start up right away in the morning after it was off all night and drives perfectly fine. The car will also start up and drive perfectly fine if it has been driven around and parked for more than an hour or two. The kicker- if the car has been driven and is only parked for 15 minutes to an hour, it won't start. It sounds like it’s trying really hard to fire up but it just wont go (it is turning over and making the noises like the starter is working but engine won’t fire up) If I leave it sitting for a couple of hours it will start up again.
My dad I work on cars and I would say he's a fairly knowledgeable fellow but we couldn't figure it out, the local mechanic couldn't figure it out, AND the regional Nissan dealership and their platinum mechanic/engineers can't figure it out. I have put more than $3k into figuring out this problem and everyone is stumped.
Here is what we have fixed/replaced so far to no avail:
new fuel pump (currently discussing with mechanics if this could be faulty?)
checked/replaced fuel injectors and o-rings
new battery
new alternator
all cables leading to battery have been checked/replaced including fusible link
assembly card slot for key replaced
key batteries replaced
new spark plugs
engine control module
new brakes/rotors/and cables for awd/abs system just for the hell of it because the lights were on for those
WHAT ELSE COULD IT POSSIBLY BE??
the next step the Nissan dealership wants to do is replace the fuel pump again even though I’ve already done it with my dad. Does this seem like a reasonable next step? It’s $1300 for them to change it and was only $200 for us to do it at home. They've replaced so many things and keep telling us that we just have to replace "the next thing on the checklist" and that the fuel pump is that next thing that is on their checklist. Could the fuel pump we put in be causing this intermittent no start issue??
I’ve already spent over $3000 and I’m tired of throwing money at a car that’s only worth $6k at most…
Here's the deal- The car will start up right away in the morning after it was off all night and drives perfectly fine. The car will also start up and drive perfectly fine if it has been driven around and parked for more than an hour or two. The kicker- if the car has been driven and is only parked for 15 minutes to an hour, it won't start. It sounds like it’s trying really hard to fire up but it just wont go (it is turning over and making the noises like the starter is working but engine won’t fire up) If I leave it sitting for a couple of hours it will start up again.
My dad I work on cars and I would say he's a fairly knowledgeable fellow but we couldn't figure it out, the local mechanic couldn't figure it out, AND the regional Nissan dealership and their platinum mechanic/engineers can't figure it out. I have put more than $3k into figuring out this problem and everyone is stumped.
Here is what we have fixed/replaced so far to no avail:
new fuel pump (currently discussing with mechanics if this could be faulty?)
checked/replaced fuel injectors and o-rings
new battery
new alternator
all cables leading to battery have been checked/replaced including fusible link
assembly card slot for key replaced
key batteries replaced
new spark plugs
engine control module
new brakes/rotors/and cables for awd/abs system just for the hell of it because the lights were on for those
WHAT ELSE COULD IT POSSIBLY BE??
the next step the Nissan dealership wants to do is replace the fuel pump again even though I’ve already done it with my dad. Does this seem like a reasonable next step? It’s $1300 for them to change it and was only $200 for us to do it at home. They've replaced so many things and keep telling us that we just have to replace "the next thing on the checklist" and that the fuel pump is that next thing that is on their checklist. Could the fuel pump we put in be causing this intermittent no start issue??
I’ve already spent over $3000 and I’m tired of throwing money at a car that’s only worth $6k at most…
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Comments
For an engine to start it has to get spark, and it has to occur at the right time. It needs fuel and it has to be the proper amount. Too much fuel or not enough or any usually have different symptoms that can be heard and felt. When the car doesn't start, pushing the throttle to the floor should cause the system to enter clear flood mode and if it was too rich you may notice some cylinders starting to fire intermittently. When they fire black smoke is usually observable at the tailpipe. That's one check that you can do without a lot of test equipment that could help gain a direction. Knowing what it takes to get the engine to start dictates what needs to be tested and measured to prove why it is failing to start. If holding the throttle to the floor or simply changing the throttle position helps it start, that would provide a diagnostic direction.
When I get ready to test for a problem like this, I do the same thing as any other no-start issue. I connect the digital storage oscilloscope so that I can confirm if spark command is occurring or not, plus I take a relative compression measurement so that I can see when that spark is occurring. I will have a spark tester connected to one of the coils so that I can see if sufficient spark is actually occurring or not. I am going to attach a fuel pressure gage so that I can see if the fuel pressure is correct or not while cranking. I'll have one of the scope traces monitoring the injector command. The scan tool will be connected so that I can confirm if the engine controller is seeing real world data in regard to the engine temperature, and intake air temperature. I will also have connected a propane enrichment device so that if it is too lean, I can provide my own fuel. In some cases, I'll even add a gas analyzer and measure what is coming out of the tailpipe. With an assistant cranking the engine, all this data will reveal what is working correctly and what is suspect. Then the test connections are changed to work towards pinpointing the root failure. If the car happens to start up before the testing is completed, now you have to let it run for a bit and then shut it off and get it to act up again to continue the process.
The one rule to testing like this is to forget what has been done before while the vehicle is being tested. Once the solution is confirmed, then it's time to look and see if the previous work is related somehow, but not until then.