Smart Fortwo

PF_Flyer

Smarts had been proliferating in my area, but it seems to have run its course. It could be a supply problem as the dealer that carried them hasn't had one sitting out on display in months.

Of course, in my area, there always seems to be a "fad" component to sales of quirky vehicles. The new Beetle, PT Cruiser, and smart, to name a few, all are bought and VERY visible right away then the newness wears off or some new and unusual vehicle comes along.

There WERE about 7 smarts that I was seeing around town during the summer, but I hadn't seen one on the road since early Sept until yesterday.

dennismau

The dealer doesn't have any on display because they are all SOLD! The Smart car is not a fad it is the future. 800,000 sold in Europe shows thay are not a fad!

Dennis

PF_Flyer

I assume that the dealer sold all he had. But at least in my neck of the woods, the smart sure has seemed to be one of the "Hey look what I'm driving" fad-mobiles.

There are folks here who jump from vehicle to vehicle depending on what's "trendy" and adhere to the philosophy from the Eagle's song New Kid In Town...

They will never forget you 'til somebody new comes along.

Not a judgement, just an observation. When the Hummer came out they were highly visible here too.

highrise

Group, thanks for the responses regarding the delivery date of my smart. The dealer had 50 delivered last week and six of them went orphan. One of the orphans was similar to what I want but had the standard single-slot CD and no fog lights. I offered to buy it if they would upgrade it to the premium radio at my expense. The response was that it would cost $1,043 for the head unit plus the additional cost of two hours of labor. I believe those costs are total BS. Then, "as a rule" all orphans get window tint, pinstripes, and LoJack installed at an additional cost of $2,000. I'm not interested in the tint, stripes, or LoJack. In the end, that makes the total cost of the orphan about $3,000 more than than the much nicer car that I want to configure. As of today, the six orphans are still sitting there.

joshuag

Has anyone actually seen one of these cars in person. I have, and next to my Dodge Ram it look like a little spec. I can't imagine driving one of those on the freeway, how dangerous. The back bumper is right behind the seat. And only 40 mpg, why not buy a 5-speed civic, a Saturn Astra, or something like that that get within a few mpg. I think this might be another one of those cars that people drive so they can show everyone how really green they are.

PF_Flyer

I would never put down someone because they bought a smart or any other small car. But a dose of reality does help. I drive a Versa, and even with the excellent safety ratings it has, in its class, I know that I'm probably in a less than ideal situation if I tangle with a larger car or truck.

I had a smart pull out in front of me when he shouldn't have this summer. I managed to avoid hitting him, but the look on his face told me he knew he was in a bad spot.

The silliest defense I've heard of the smart with regard to safety is that it's so light that it would probably bounce off the front of an 18 wheeler and the car would keep you safe. Uh huh :confuse:

That comment was even immortalized in an Ask Dub Schwartz! entry on the Alternate Route.

snakeweasel

Has anyone actually seen one of these cars in person.

I have, not only that I have driven one. Yes its a small car but it is fun to drive, nimble and easy to manuever around things.

I can't imagine driving one of those on the freeway, how dangerous.

I have seen them on the freeways and they kept up with traffic very well and seemed to handle the wind very well.

As for dangerous its not really any more dangerous than any other small car.

And only 40 mpg, why not buy a 5-speed civic,

Well that 40 MPG is most likely a combined city/highway mileage. The Smart owners I have talked to state that they get mid 30's city and mid to upper 40's highway. With that 5-speed civic you might do 40 Highway but a lot less in mixed driving. So the Smart would get at least 10% better gas mileage than the 5 speed civic.

dmathews3

May not fair well against a big car/truck but it is still safer than riding a motorcycle. I used to have a Honda GoldWing which is about a 1000lb bike and it only got 37 to 39 on the highway.. If you figured just weight as the reason for something getting good/bad gas mileage than the Wing should have gotten at least 60 on the highway. Remember this car was made for city/urban driving where small is better. It was never designed for our freeways and even in other countries for the most part it is used in those croweded cities that have been around hundreds of years before cars were even thought of. They were brought to the U.S. because of a demand for them so if they only sell 30 or 40K a year that has to be a profit since they are building them anyway.

gostrider

I drive a Nissan Versa too but as far as getting hit by a big truck or car if it is your time to go it dose not matter what you are driving.You still have a roll cage around you it is safer than a motorcycle if you get hit you will be hurt if not killed.You can be out of the elemints the rain the cold and people really give you the looks I have driven one.I liked acceleration when I was younger that is the big sacrifice because there are places you need acceleration.I have seen people in large vehicles get hit by a 18 wheeler and they were killed.

joshuag

I wrote about having a Dodge Ram and the Smart car being like a spec. You are all very right, this is a city car, and a majority of people hit by 18 wheel trucks are fatily injured even if they are driving a large vehicle. You all have to agree though that the first time you see one it is very shocking. Also, I am not coming down on anyone concerned about the environment, I also being a very concerned citizen. I am just saying that I think there are other better alternatives.

[Deleted User]

There is no alternative yet if a truly small car is what you want. There is no alternative yet if you don't constantly want to be driving around a back seat and a lot of sheet metal you never use. There is no alternative if the economical car you prefer to drive is one that sticks out, gets reactions and makes you smile when you look at it.

It's amazing to me all the naysayers that come here to bash the smart or try to save the poor goons that consider buying.it. What is that all about?? If you are not a smart buyer or admirer, you won't get why anyone would be smitten with it. Anyone who compares a Versa to a smart is certainly not speaking to the smart buyer. Nothing wrong with a Versa, but where does it end? Shouldn't the Versa buyer consider the Altima or Fusion? Shouldn't the Fusion buyer consider a New Taurus or a Lucerne? Shouldn't the Lucerne buyer get a Yukon instead? Maybe we should all drive the same weight and size vehicles, and Harleys should be banned?

johnxyz

Hmmm.... Would of thought it would be a Euro marque sourced engine in the Smart Car. Like a Peugeot in the Mini or even a Mercedes -built engine. What engine did MB put in their A-Class cars?

Anyone care to comment on the design or quality of this engine? I assume it doesn't contain any latest tech valve-trains or injection systems...

Who supplies the transmission? And it it a 5 or 6 sp auto? Was the previous model a 6 sp and the current (USA) model is a 5 sp? Thanks.

rdrygg

I've always said that there should be one person cars as I am usually the only one in my car, and notice that many others are too on their way to and fro.So, I've been waiting for the Smart to get here.
I didn't get the power steering and its just fine without it. I took it to the mountains for the weekend, it was a little sluggish uphill, but didn't bother me at all, I was able to drive the same way I always do on this route. It was a very comfortable ride. At first the no cruise control bothered me, then I found a comfortable angle for my foot to stay on the accelerator and it was fine. The weather was mild so I'm not sure I can vouch for it not getting blown around, but I didn't notice anything so far with that. There was plenty of cargo room for my friends and my stuff in the back.
I live in the city and street park at home and work. My quality of life is so much better now that I don't have to wait for spots right in front of my home anymore (I can always count on someone to leave a big enough gap for me to get into, which used to aggravate me because it was usually someone taking up two spaces) I wanted the shortest possible car I could find. This is the perfect car for me.

bumpy

The engine came from Mitsubishi as part of a plan to reduce the build and design costs for the 451 smart. It's a regular old transverse slant-3, nothing fancy or exotic in keeping with its intended mission. The tranny is from Getrag, and is a 5-speed this time around since the larger engine has a wider powerband.

priggly

For everyone's information, this "car" is still ranked dead last for safety in the latest informedforlife.org car safety rankings of 2009 cars with a score of 162. It is in the "worst 10%" for 2009.

You may think this is a great gadget but if the informedforlife.org's data is correct, and I have no reason to believe it is not, don't run into anything or be run into or you may find yourself re-thinking your position . . . .

http://www.informedforlife.org/demos/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/1MasterSCOREr.pdf

snakeweasel

For everyone's information, this "car" is still ranked dead last for safety in the latest informedforlife.org

For everyones information informedforlife.org uses very questionable methods for determining safety ratings as was discussed here before. See post # 345 and 348.

Tell me priggly how in the world can informed for life use two sources that say car 'A' is safer than car 'B' and come up with car 'B' is safer than car 'A'?

[Deleted User]

Priggly, since you keep repeating yourself, I will too...

There is no alternative yet if a truly small car is what you want. There is no alternative yet if you don't constantly want to be driving around a back seat and a lot of sheet metal you never use. There is no alternative if the economical car you prefer to drive is one that sticks out, gets reactions and makes you smile when you look at it.

It's amazing to me that people come here to bash the smart or try to save the poor fools that consider buying.it. What is that?? If you are not a smart buyer or admirer, you won't ever get why anyone would be smitten with it. Anyone who compares a Versa or an Aveo to a smart is certainly not speaking to the smart buyer. Nothing wrong with a Versa, but where does it this end? Shouldn't the Versa buyer consider a midsize for greater safety? Shouldn't the midsize buyer consider a fullsize? Shouldn't the fullsize sedan buyer get an SUV instead? Maybe we should all drive the same size vehicles, and Harleys and other cycles be banned? Maybe vehicles with less than 6 airbags should be crushed now?

The smart fills a niche. It is not a niche you want to be in. Fine. Even if all your safety claims are true, that is not going to dissuade people for whom the smart appeals any more than safety claims are going to get Harley riders off their hogs.

PF_Flyer

Everyone gets passionate about the cars they like, but how many times are we going to hear, "This is the FUTURE"?

A good product is going to fulfill the needs and wants of the consumer. The smart simply doesn't fulfill the needs of a large portion of the car buying public. Yes, I could use the smart for a lot of my day to day transportation, but certainly not all of it, so I have to make a choice as I can't afford to buy multiple vehicles to perform different jobs.

Maybe it would help to hear what a smart fan thinks the niche of the smart is. Because right now the only smarts I've seen on the road fit the pattern that I've seen over and over with many vehicles... It's new, it's different, and *I* have the latest fad vehicle.

[Deleted User]

You are making a lot of assumptions there bud and are sounding more like a hostile witness than a host.

An example of good friends of mine...
They are building a green sustainable house jumping through regulation hoops in order to get grants to cover a portion of the costs. They live in a small town and drive a smart not only for the mileage, but because it uses fewer resources to build a whole car. They have just ordered a second one. They are the kind of people who couldn't care less what others think of what they drive. Another friend, a developer, drives his (probably his fourth or fifth vehicle) has it for fun drives between job sites.

I don't know what the smart niche is either. I don't think there is any homogenous group that goes after it. Rather, it is a niche vehicle because of its very specialized nature. The actual reasons people choose a very low volume vehicle (relatively speaking) will be about as varied as the number of buyers. Sure, there are people who will buy it because it is cute. As well as other reasons.

joshuag

A lot of people are saying that there are no alternatives to the mileage this car gets and that is just not true. The Honda Civic gets about 40 mpg on the highway with the stick, the Saturn Astra gets about 38, Ford is putting out the new Fiesta in about 6 months and it gets identical gas mileage and it's cheaper. Is anyone talking about the price of this car also. They are running about 18-21k. A car this small should be no more that 12k.

[Deleted User]

If a lot of people are saying there are no alternatives to the mileage, then they are wrong. However, there are no alternatives to the car if it is a truly small car you want.

snakeweasel

The smart simply doesn't fulfill the needs of a large portion of the car buying public.

The reality of it is is the Smart does indeed fulfill the needs of a large portion of the car buying public, especially those with multiple cars in the household. Tell me how many two (or more) car families have one car that doesn't really need a back seat? When our kids were little there was no reason that either me or the wife couldn't have been driving a car like the Smart. Sure we needed a car with more room and a back seat but we didn't need two of them. Next time you commute to work look around and see how many cars only have one occupant.

Please do not confuse what people think they need with what the actually need.

snakeweasel

The Honda Civic gets about 40 mpg on the highway with the stick,

According to the EPA its 34 MPG, just one MPG better than the Smart in city driving and 8MPG less than the Smart on the highway. Try again.

the Saturn Astra gets about 38,

Again according to the EPA the Astra gets 32 MPG highway. Try again

Ford is putting out the new Fiesta in about 6 months and it gets identical gas mileage and it's cheaper.

We can talk about the Fiesta when it gets here. Yes it gets identical gas mileage but thats in Europe. If it comes with the same engine expect the mileage to drop once it gets US emissions. Expect it to drop even more if it gets a more powerful engine.

They are running about 18-21k.

I believe they start at around 11K.

Sorry I don't see any non hybrids getting anywhere near what the Smart does.

priggly

You are, of course, quite correct. The Smart fulfills very few automotive needs and is most certainly a fad, which is the basis of its appeal to those who get cajoled into buying it. Not only is it a fad but a very dangerous one at that!

lokki

The Smart only makes sense in an urban environment where parking space is at a premium, and parallel parking is the norm. They don't make sense for most of America, or even in most American cities. Dallas, (where the Lokki's roam) is a large city, but as is typical in American cities, different locales in the city are reached by high-speed transit on the expressways. The Smart gives no advantage here. Nor does it give an advantage in parking since most Americans are never required to parallel park, and a Smart takes up a whole 'head-in' parking space.

I have some personal knowledge and experience in this area because of my time spent in Japan. In Japan, the (tiny) Smart car concept makes sense. Distances are short, speeds are low, parking is always a problem. The Japanese make an entire class of cars that are 'Smart' competitors - the Kei class. They're quite efficient and comfortable. However, they're not intended for high speed work and generally don't attempt it. Her's an example from Toyota that I'd prefer to a Smart, I think, for use in the Same circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_iQ

The Smart car is really only suited to a few niche markets in the states - New York City, San Francisco, and perhaps (the old) New Orleans.

As far as the environmental impact, the fact that the Smart is recyclable is rather irrelevant in the states, since it won't be. In fact, since the United States IS set up to recycle steel cars and not plastic cars, the Smart is LESS likely to be recycled.

Having said all this, I like cars, and I like innovation. If I were in a location where a Smart was at all practical, I'd consider one....they're very cool... but in truth, I'd much rather have a Suzuki Cappuccino cause it's closer to who I am.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Cappuccino

dennismau

I have had a Smart car in Denver, Colorado now for a year and it is great on the highways!. I reguarly run 80 to 90 mph on my way to work and it is smooth and stabile. It is the best commuter car I have ever had. I average 43 to 45 mpg every week. Always the same. I pass many cars on the hills and they can't believe it when I shoot by them especially if they have a BMW or some sport car. You do not have a Smart car if you are knocking them because you have never drove them for along period of time to see what a great car they are. The Toyota IQ is just a shortened FWD Yaris that they will charge $20K for. The Smart is rear wheel drive, it has Stability Control, ABS, traction control, and of course the Tridion Safety cage construction. The Smart is also a foot shorter than the IQ. Being small is a BIG advantage. You really do not need a two ton car to carry your butt to work. Take my word for it. Americans need to wake up!

Dennis

[Deleted User]

Yes, I am so upset, as you are, about all the poor saps who are cajoled into buying the smart. It is a terriblly dangerous fad that is causing a great deal of pain and misery for anyone who buys one. Those who aren't prone to the giles and wiles of the awful smart car must keep up their dedication to sanity and safety and warn all those who are tricked by the little car. We must keep up our will to wipe out any thought that this car could work for anyone. We must stop at all costs any person who thinks this car meets their needs. It is dangerous! It is unbelievable to think that anyone should be allowed to drive one on our highways. Keep up the campaign!!! If we work diligently, everyone will buy a Versa instead, and all the world will be better off. Oh please, don't let anyone buy another smart! It is just too important. Monitor this site as if your life depended on it, and if anyone seems to think the smart might be something to consider, please, please, make them understand the error of their ways. Thank you and thank the Lord.

dstrom

I thoroughly enjoy all those who "know" about the smart cars, highway safety, automotive "needs", etceteras, and their eagerness to share with us what we and society "should" do (I say that we've all been "should" on long enough). And both "sides" seem to think that using expletives and calling names helps emphasize and strengthen their position. All this seems to me to beg the question, "What's the difference between a fact and your opinion and how do you know the difference?"

I am the very happy owner and driver of a smart ForTwo for seven months now. I live in a rural area, am averaging 50.6 mpg for over 7,200 miles, and prefer to drive my smart over my Honda Ridgeline or VW Eos. I find the safety test result FACTS from the the NHTSA, IIHS, and Euro NCAP as well as the extensive safety features of the car (including standard "Stability Control") quite reassuring. I'm proud of what owning and driving a smart as opposed to virtually any other vehicle does for the environment. As a longtime "car guy" (45 years in the automotiove business) and enthusiast, I thoroughly enjoy driving my smart. And. by the way, the latest issue of Consumer Reports lists the smart as one of the "Most Reliable" small cars and the Toyota Versa as "Least Reliable."

I believe (my opinion) that we all have the right to hold and express our own opinions but we don't have the right to represent them as facts. What do you think/believe?

Enjoy

snakeweasel

is a terriblly dangerous fad that is causing a great deal of pain and misery for anyone who buys one.

Have you talked to everyone who has bought one? If not thats just your misinformed opinion. I have talked to many Smart car owners and everyone loves their car.

We must keep up our will to wipe out any thought that this car could work for anyone.

So basically you want to wipe out the truth? The truth is this car would work for millions of people. How many people drive a commuter vehicle and never have more than one other person in the car? there are many that fit that bill.

It is dangerous!

So is a motorcycle, so is a Yaris. Lets face it, unless you are driving an armored truck driving is dangerous, the Smart is no more dangerous than any other small car and safer than a motorcycle or a scooter.

[Deleted User]

Um...hello? snakeweasel?? I was satirizing the guys who come here to try to save smart owners from themselves. I thought my parody was pretty blatant, but maybe it did sound too much like priggly and others. Anyway, cheers.

PF_Flyer

*I* got the satire, but remember that thta's one of the hardest things to do on a message board... have everyone take what you say the way you mean them to.

Honestly, I was going to go test drive a smart just to see what they were like, but our local dealer stopped having them.

I'm not trying to "save" anyone from buying or driving a smart. That's the great thing about cars. We can all choose what we like for whatever reason. I just shake my head sometimes at the hyperbole when it comes to safety of ANY vehicle when people make statements like "it's so light it would probably bounce off the 18-wheeler instead of crush".

Sort of strains common sense a bit!

Might be interesting for some of us to keep a log of our driving for a week and see how much car we actually use or need. It might even surprise me, but thinking back on this last week there were about four times I was in the car with less than 3 people on board. Still might be an interesting exercise once I get over this head cold :sick:

priggly

gregg, I am glad you finally came around to seeing the "Smart" for what it really is, a dangerous fad. Better late than never, right?

joshuag

I am very happy that you are so happy with your smart car. Im starting to see them around my town, but I have to tell you I am still shocked at how small they are every time I see one. But, it seems that even on this forum people who own them are furious every time someone says something negative about them. And, all I am saying is when a big Cadillac Escalade or a Lincoln Navigator pulls up next to you, please be as understanding as you want everyone else to be when it comes to these Smart cars. I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what kind of car they should be driving.

[Deleted User]

And I'm glad to see priiggly that you have a sense of humor.

stout7735

My Smart should finally arrive next month...At 64,I have led a full life, so if a semi truck turns me and my Smart into a bouncing pinball, I will die knowing it is not as messy if I had been riding a motorcycle...The gas tank under the seat may even warm me up...I am not an environmentalist or adrenalin junky...I like the cost of ownership and negligible depreciation...Also, the smart is a future classic I can pass on to my heirs..The alternative cars will be scrap metal in 20 years...

isellhondas

We have one on our used car lot that someone trade in after 150 miles.

They just hated it and couldn't wait to get rid of it.

I was going to ask if these cars can really be driven on the freeway and I read here about a poster who drives hie 80-90 MPH!!

I'm not bashing them but for the life of me, I think I would rather walk!

bumpy

It's definitely not for everybody, but neither is a Hummer. Freeway driving is no big deal.

85 mph or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcump2Zx7SU

isellhondas

When we had a Miata, I hated driving on the freeway with a semi alongside me or worse yet one on each side. I know I would be terrified in a Smart.

No car is right for everyone but I can't think of a car that would be more wrong for me!

joshuag

I was surprised to see in my town at one of our used car lots a Smart Fortwo. They have it parked by the used trucks and it looks ridiculous.

stout7735

A 1976 Honda Civic may also look ridiculous next to Pickups...Don't forget, the bigger the truck, the smaller the penis...

joshuag

Well, you know stout, the more someone talks about something, the more self conscience they are on the subject.

snakeweasel

A 1976 Honda Civic may also look ridiculous next to Pickups

I used to work at Internationals Corporate office, They had a couple of those CXT's parked there. Any car parked next to them looked ridiculous (or visa versa pick your choice).

Anyway I still say that as a second commuter car (which many families have) the smart would be the perfect second car.

[Deleted User]

Or perhaps with a different viewpoint, you could see how ridiculous piloting a truck around all by yourself as everyday transportation looks.

isellhondas

A Smart looks ridiculous wherever it's parked!

To me, they look like a cartoon car!

[Deleted User]

That is part of their attraction.

isellhondas

Oh I know and people buy them for that reason.

I wonder how they are in a strong crosswind?

dmathews3

to me more practical and safer than a motorcycle and for the most part cheaper too.

[Deleted User]

They perform fine on the expressway. Cute car, efficient and a much safer alternative to a scooter, motorcycle (or Hyundai Accent).

joshuag

I saw a 250 pound guy in a suit driving a Smart, and believe me, that was far funnier seeing him in that over a truck. I couldn't stop laughing.

[Deleted User]

What's funny to you may not be all that funny to anyone else. Everything is funny (or not funny) given the perspective chosen. I guess you would have pissed your pants seeing a large man in a suit on a motorcycle...