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Acura MDX (pre-2007)

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Comments

  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    I do think Acura is getting things right again finally after the boring RL/TL/Vigor, etc. a while back, but that article should also mention when the MDX was released, some of the price gouging that some dealers do, etc. to put the current market in perspective.

    A lot of initial demand is first year excitement. The ML had a waiting list a year long when it first came out; supply caught up w/ demand at the end of the 1999 model year. The X5 also had waiting lists of months for the first year of its life. Ditto w/ Honda's S2000, Subaru's WRX, Honda's Odyssey, etc.
  • tavgradtavgrad Member Posts: 201
    The width thing does not matter. I'm also buying a full size pickup (which will probably end up on the street most of the time).

    I don't think the waiting list on the MDX won't be as extreme as the MB Mini van. I have seen quite a few MDX's on the roads of metro LA this spring and summer.

    I asked one lady recently at a parking lot who had a green MDX "how long did it take and how much over did you pay?" She said it "only" took six weeks. In February, I asked a man who had a burgendy one the same question. His reply was three months with a huge deposit, so he can get it sooner.
  • skimmelskimmel Member Posts: 43
    Interesting point on the fold-in mirrors. So, do you fold them in everytime you pull in to your garage (and out after you pull out). Do you think the motor on the thing is built for doing this repeatedly (we pull into our garage it seems about 10 times a day with errands/taking kids around, etc)?
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    We don't have a Sequoia - just tested one. If we DID get it instead of the RX300, we'd be pushing that button every time we went into and out of our garage. We also would have purchased an extended warranty with it since it's a first year model.

    I'm not sure if the folding mirrors are designed to be used daily (or multiple times a day). When I did use that feature during the test drive, the motor action seemed very sooth and quiet. This leads me to believe that it'll be fine in the long run, but in all honesty, only time will tell.

    -Craig
  • hookeyhookey Member Posts: 54
    Although this is the MDX forum, I can add a bit of knowledge re: the recent Sequoia discussion. I purchased a Sequoia in November 2000 and now have 17,000 miles on it. I also ordered an MDX that should be delivered in late August. These are two very different vehicles and address very different needs.

    I can't say enough about the Sequoia. I've driven it in all types of conditions from winter to summer, rain, snow, off-road, long highway trips, etc. This vehicle has been outstanding! Great in the snow, very comfortable on long trips, holds the whole family plus gear (I have a wife and four kids aged 4 to 9, plus coach a hockey team and am often driving several players to games), and runs silky smooth. If you need lots of space and a dependable vehicle, in my opinion this is the vehicle to own.

    The reason I'm getting an MDX is that my wife's mini-van has seen better days and we want to replace it. The Sequoia is great for my week night and weekend needs when I'm driving with lots of passengers, but its a little overkill for my weekday commute to Boston (22 miles each way). It's also a little tough to maneuver in the parking garage that I use at work.

    The MDX will provide us with a smaller commuting vehicle which will also allow us to carry the full family when necessary (or some of the kids with their friends). Without this capability it is difficult to do without the Sequoia for any period of time, including when it is being serviced.

    It's going to be painful for me to give the Sequoia to my wife, but it makes a lot of practical sense. I really hope my MDX does not disappoint me.
  • tavgradtavgrad Member Posts: 201
    hookey,
    I seriously do not think you will be dissapointed. In motor trend magazine it equaled the BMW X5 3.0i in terms of performance. It's basically an AWD sport sedan, so you will have the best of both worlds.
    That's what I'm going to do, too. (Not buy a sequoia.) I'm tossing up between new pickups (for my recreational outdoors time) and when we need a townie, the acura is good enough.
  • 02mdx02mdx Member Posts: 64
    are pretty much standard equipment here in Japan. The mirrors are used as much as power windows and should stand the test of time.

    Many people were curious if the MDX would have the power mirrors when the prototype debuted in Detroit. Quite a few folks from this board passed on the MDX b/c of the lack of power mirrors. Given the width of the MDX and the size of some garages, I think it would be a sensible feature.
  • skimmelskimmel Member Posts: 43
    Thanks to all for the info on this. Seems like MDX should have them.

    I haven't been through the MDX with a fine tooth comb, but it seems like there are a lot of things that could be added (head airbags, stability control, high-intensity headlights, brake assist -- don't see these listed for MDX). It's not a cheap car. Anyone else bothered by this?
  • tavgradtavgrad Member Posts: 201
    Cheap fake wood. Cheesy useless roof rack. And Honda always skimp on decent tires despite the are 17's. These things will be immediately replaced with aftermarket supplies.

    I noticed that it does not even offer high intensity headlamps, too..Infiniti Qx4 does (well xenon) standard. All the others have it as an option.

    Well, for the price, the essentials are standard. I'm quite sure that our pet peeves will be addressed and probably available as options as the 2002 models arrives. Remember, those things were not available on the others when they first came out.

    Are you saying that the mirrors don't fold at all? Not even manually?
  • 02bluemdx02bluemdx Member Posts: 17
    For its second year in the lineup, Acura’s SUV sees
    no significant changes. To develop the MDX,
    designers borrowed some components from the
    Honda Odyssey minivan, including the 3.5-liter V-6
    engine that drives a five-speed-automatic transmission.
    Rivals include the BMW X5, Lexus RX 300 and
    Mercedes-Benz M-Class.

    Seating seven, the MDX is built at the same factory as
    the Odyssey in Ontario, Canada. The center and rear
    seats fold flat to increase cargo space. Side-impact
    airbags for the front seats are standard.

    An all-wheel-drive system powers the front wheels on
    smooth, dry roads. On slippery surfaces, it
    automatically transfers power to the rear wheels to
    maintain traction as needed. Standard equipment
    includes leather upholstery and a power moonroof.
    Acura’s DVD-based navigation system is the only
    major option.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Yep, the MDX doesn't come with HID's, stability control, etc. Unfortunately, there's no perfect vehicle in this general price range. The MDX lacks some things its competitors have, and its competitors lack some things the MDX has. The key is to evaluate your own priorities and decide which vehicle suits you best. E.g. if luxury is your bent, the RX has more luxururious accommodations. If just about every safety feature and measure is your desire, the 2002 ML320 is a good bet. But none of these vehicles is "perfect." Good luck.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Afraid the MDX doesn't have power folding side mirrors either. They will fold manually.

    I remember a discussion here, and another on www.acuramdx.org, about the actual width of the vehicle with the mirrors. Seems some manufacturers don't include the mirrors in the width, focusing on the body.

    For what it's worth, the MDX gets into my garage fine without any issues with the mirrors. My garage has individual doors, not a double-wide single door.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Unfortunately the waiting lists still seem to be very long, though it varies tremendously by region. Dealers in southern states (Florida seems to be a key) seem to get delivery somewhat quicker. Some folks have taken to going out of state to get their vehicles, breaking them in on the drive back home.

    As with anything, the supply will eventually catch up with the demand, new competitors will emerge, and waiting lists will shrink. As Ken pointed out, that was the case with the M-class, and later the RX300. At that point, waiting lists in some states will get significantly shorter or evaporate, while there'll be pockets where the vehicle is in higher demand. You'll see modest discounts off of MSRP and eventually they'll grow larger.

    Of course, the question is always "when?" My hunch is that it'll start 18 months after introduction, but who knows for sure. But I also suspect that 24 months after introduction, the 2003 MDX will have some improvements that'll temporarily pull it back up again, but then it'll get more reasonable after that.

    It looks as if there's no chance that this'll happen 12-14 months after introduction because right now lists are still long and there's the usual pent-up demand of folks who figure they just may as well get on the list for a 2002.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Actually, Mark Truby's article did mention complaints about dealers charging premiums and forcing accessories, though it's no more than a sentence.

    Yep, if Acura is going to maintain any momentum it needs to keep adding on good variants and new models. An MDX Type-S would certainly be interesting, but probably not until 2003 or beyond, if ever. I'm not that enthused about the new RSX (styling is still Honda/Acura conservative, they didn't go far enough). Though after reading the Automobile magazine review of it, it has better capability than I expected.

    Say, do you like the new NSX?
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    It'll work (though you can't put a rear-facing car seat in the MDX's third row, and access would be a pain even if you could). You could even put all three kids abreast, in their car seats, in the second row (it's certainly wide enough). However, kids being kids, that may not be the wisest thing.

    Nothing beats the seating flexibility and the access (sliding doors) of a minivan, however. Though many minivans can't seat three in the second row, compromising some of the rear cargo space (more true in vehicles with a one-piece third row like the Odyssey, which is otherwise a really good plan).

    Another thing to consider if you have three kids is an in-vehicle entertainment system for long trips. Acura doesn't have one available for the MDX yet, you have to go third-party. The 2002 ML320 will have an option, dunno about other MDX competitors.

    Some folks have had great success flipping down the center console lid to the rear seat, and strapping/velcro'ing a portable DVD player flat on top of it. Can't leave it in the vehicle like that obviously but it's either concealed or taken with you. Not hooked into your system natively (headphones and headphone splitters work fine), and it's usually quite a bit cheaper than a full-blown system (Costco has an 8" unit now for $549.99, and prices are continually dropping).
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    As Drew said, Acura doesn't make it easy to buy an MDX in Canada and use it in the U.S. I'd only do it if I was relatively close to the border and planned to run the MDX into the ground (since resale value is going to be heavily compromised), and even then I probably wouldn't bother. Though I remember a poster here who seemed happy with doing it.

    In most larger cities near Canada, there's an auto broker or two that'll sell you Canadian-market vehicles. They take care of transporting it across the border, they convert the speedometer, and package in a third-party warranty. Of course your savings are less since you're going through a middleman.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    FWIW, the ML's rear entertainment system is dealer-installed and not limited to the '02 model year. It's pretty nice looking, and is made by a reputable company (Rosen) which also does many other OEM vehicle video systems.

    [Edited after your following message] The stick-on windowflectors are not something I typically like because after a few years, they seem to have the tendency to fall off, even with the 3M tape. The ones that go into the window channels, like the Weathertechs, seem to be better, and since there is no tape, they won't become unglued either. In other countries, even OEMs sell these as their own accessories.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Someone mentioned aftermarket accessories (by the way, I'm more than fine with the Michelin Cross-Terrain SUV tires on the Touring Package, I think they're great tires.)

    Manik now sells grill guards, taillight deflectors, and sidesteps for the MDX. The sidesteps in particular are pretty nice, look good (if you're into sidesteps) and aren't too expensive. I think the grill guard is a bit over-the-top.

    Tim at www.hondacuraworld.com now sells some other non-Acura accessories for the MDX, like side window air deflectors. Great prices, great service, highly recommended. His dealership will even professionally paint some of the Acura accessories to match your MDX's color (for an additional fee, of course). E.g. you can get the Acura dark-gray/black tailgate deflector painted to match the MDX's color.

    There's been a number of sources of side moldings for the MDX.

    There are numerous wood-dash trim kits, so if you can't get enough of the fake wood in the MDX, you can add more. There's even a (hideous, IMHO) "brushed aluminum trim" kit at www.woodtrim.com. Apparently there's also a "carbon fiber" kit for those so inclined.

    A couple of third-party hitches have emerged (though Acura still recommends using the coolers for towing). I've seen one for about $120-$160 depending on capacity, as well as a "Hidden Hitch." I might buy one of these one day to attach a bike rack to the back, but we'll see.

    [Addendum] Drew, good point about the stick-ons. I'd imagine sooner or later there'll be channel-mounted ones. I have to admit I've never used these 'flectors on any vehicle I've had, but then I like running the air conditioner and keeping out the elements (and, being from New York, any harassment by panhandlers).
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Ah, didn't know it was available for the 2001's as well, thanks. That's a good option to at least offer. Is it available with a DVD player instead of a VHS player?

    What always makes me wonder about some of the comprehensive systems, especially the aftermarket ones, is the simple fact that the technology/price ratio here is improving so quickly. Granted folks won't hold on to their vehicles forever, but many will keep them for at least a few generations of electronics improvements. Screen size is probably the most notable area. I still see units with tiny 5" screens (the MB's apparently is a 6.8" which is better). On the other hand, the comprehensive units have much more flexibility (e.g. support video games).

    Heck, even the portable DVD units have come down from $1,000 for a 5" screen to almost half-that for an 8" screen. There's a rumor that Sony will ship a 9" under-$400 model before Christmas, and next year there'll be plenty of 9" and larger screen displays out.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Even the '00 models can be fitted with the in-board entertainment system for sure. I'm not sure about the '98 and '99 models, but from what I've seen, it's possible too. I have seen the DVD + VHS setup, from an official but yet unofficial source (ahem ;-), but for now only the VCP option is available. However, this would not be an issue for me since I use video tapes 99% of the time anyway. The car isn't exactly the best environment to be watching a movie anyway, so I would put up with the non-AC3 sound and the high definition images and probably record the DVD onto a video tape anyway. The ML's system fits underneath one of the rear seats, with the flip down LCD screen from the headliner. The remote control stores in a compartment at the back of the roof unit.

    I guess we have to take into account the fact that these systems usually come with on-board wireless headphone transmitters, and I bet that the LCD screens have a much greater contrast than the portable handheld units. The ML's active matrix LCD screen seems to be a heck of a lot better at combating glare from direct sunlight than my notebook's, so I wonder if those video screens incoporate this LCD technology too (which name escapes me at this point). The manufacturers also have to take into account aesthetics, and the custom mounting for each system.

    That said though, like you, in this strange industry of newer technology often being cheaper or the same price as its predecessor, I too think that I wouldn't spend the sort of money for an on-board system. However, many people would probably gladly give it up just to shut the kids up, and or for that "cool car" comment from their friends and relatives. When I was taking the ferry home from Victoria to Vancouver yesterday, when I went down to the vehicle deck to walk around, I noticed 5 people sitting in the back of a Ford Expedition watching a movie. They never left their vehicle for the entire 1.55 hour ferry ride! That sort of amazed me because the Expedition's 3rd row is not comfortable for adults to sit in, especially since the two in the 3rd row were probably in their 60's.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    You're right, many of the in-vehicle systems use a higher-contrast screen. Guess it depends on the portable unit; I know that at least a couple brighten considerably when you plug in the AC adapter (like many notebook computers do) (dunno about the car adapter), as they pour more juice into the display to brighten it. Again, maybe they'll get better in time.

    I guess when my son gets old enough, and if he needs something to keep himself occupied, I'll consider a portable. Simply because by then, they should be brighter, bigger, and cheaper, and I won't have it tied to the vehicle.

    I wonder what these units do to resale value. Would anyone want a, say, five-year old permanently-installed (more or less) electronics system? I guess some would, but I could almost see it being a handicap. Then again, there's often no residual value quoted for electronics.

    That's an amusing observation about those folks in the Expedition. Funny, too, as we're cutting down our television watching so our son isn't raised by it. Never mind that we just bought the fifth television for our house ...
  • rexramrexram Member Posts: 1
    Perhaps someone has heard an alarming noise coming from the left front side of a MDX as it shifts gears. It sounds something like playing cards rapidly hitting bicycle spokes along with a touch of grinding. When I give the vehicle power, the sound is even more pronounced. So, I took it to the dealer and after two weeks of checking, they decided it was the air filter resonating due to engine vibrations--specifically when the transmission shifts. I said that explanation sounds worse than the noise coming from the MDX! So, the service manager and I took a ride in an other MDX and there was the noise; we could barely hear it, but I knew it was only going to get worse. Suggestions for this problem? Rexram
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    William:
    Hate the looks of the RSX, though it sounds like lots of fun from the reviews I've seen...they apparently took the edge off (engine noise, bump sensitivity) and kept the handling. Haven't seen the next-gen NSX yet. I really like the current NSX though.

    Drew:
    How do you copy DVD to tape? I thought it was copy protected? I used to do that w/ laserdisc because it wasn't copy protected and I could rent a few and tape onto SVHS so I could watch the rentals at my leisure.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    To my surprise, Automobile magazine indicates that Acura has actually (significantly) improved the RSX's handling, which is good news. This despite the removal of the double wishbone suspension Honda/Acura has bragged about for years, much to the howls of fans.

    I have a co-worker who got a good deal on a GS-R last year. He's certainly interested in the RSX but I suggested he wait a while.

    As far as copying DVD to tape, there shouldn't be a problem making a normal analog copy, should there (through the video/audio outputs and inputs)? Isn't the copy-protection only to prevent digital copies? If the copy was to digital tape, there could be an issue. www.tomshardware.com has a ton of stuff about ripping DVD's, though of course the legality of some of it is questionable at best.

    The in-vehicle or portable DVD's should play back Video CD copies though the quality (and more importantly the length) isn't DVD-level. That'll change as recordable DVD's become more practical.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    William:
    I read the same RSX article. That's why is sounds somewhat interesting. I still hate the looks though. I'm not fond of the V nose that Acura and Honda both adopted. :-)

    AFAIK, DVD players always put out Macrovision on video signals. You can hack some of the older players (there's a site devoted to hardware hacks). For software DVD players on your PC, you can run a program that disables it, but the video quality is not as good as the standalong hardware DVD players that hook up to your TV directly.
  • skimmelskimmel Member Posts: 43
    Excellent points. Even higher priced vehicles don't offer anything (e.g., no side airbags or, I think, HIDs, but may be wrong about that one) in the Lexus LX470. You'd think, at the price of an LX470, it'd have everything.
  • thirdsuvthirdsuv Member Posts: 209
    DVD applies macrovision to its analog outputs. However, there are plenty of Macrovision eliminators ...errrr "stabilizers" available via the web.
  • 4mel4mel Member Posts: 1
    I'm sure this has been said many times before, but after waiting 3 months and having a $1,000 deposit check cashed, Sierra Acura in Alhambra California shamelessly added on $2,500 worth of unordered accessories (wood trim, running boards, mud guards, etc.) to my base MDX with navi.

    Since I clearly did not order all this, I asked to have them all taken off - but most of it couldn't be done. The running boards, once installed, would become a safety hazard if removed. I wonder if Acura's techs know about that one. All in all, still $2,000 worth of junk. Since they "don't mark them up, just sell at list" the big profit is made this way.

    I walked away.. Acura has to know how much their dealer's tactics offends consumers, and how many sales it's costing them. And I'll make sure I spread the word on this Acura dealer.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Absolutely, spread the word on your bad experience. The only way Acura is going to clamp down on its poorer dealers is if they get more publicity, and it hurts sale. My dealer has been good/excellent in sales/service, but folks like this give them a ad name.


    There was a pretty ugly incident on www.acuramdx.org where a poster complained about Sierra Acura. The poster printed out their complaint (which was also unordered accessories) and gave it to Sierra, whose salespeople were last seen huddled over it. Within a couple of hours, a new poster with a handle that was a modified version of the original poster's put up some messages that praised the dealership and how great they were. The new poster then proceeded to write nasty messages to the original poster, including telling them to go buy an Isuzu (Sierra also owns an Isuzu dealership).


    Folks who responded to the new poster received public and personal messages of a threatening nature. Posts were all made during Sierra's business hours. Posts stopped when it was made known that the IP of the new poster was traced to an ISP that serves the city where Sierra is located.


    As far as I know, there was no conclusive proof that the posts came from Sierra personnel, but the preponderence of circumstantial evidence (not all of which is mentioned here) is rather extraordinary.


    http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?s=117ab192834f3fdc7954e5899b2e34e8&threadid=2291

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I'm very interested in your situation. Please answer on thing: did you have a sales contract at the time of your deposit? If so, it would have stated "MDX model, navi, etc." There would have been a clause saying that if charges outside of the dealer's control changed (DMV, state taxes, etc.) then the price would change accordingly.

    If you didn't have a sales contract, well, no comment. There's absolutely no reason not to get a sales contract if you are happy with the price and dealer. You can add a clause that says if vehicle is not delivered within XX days then deposit is refundable, to protect yourself from being locked into a long term commitment.

    If you did have a contract, you have a nice law suit for some lawyer to play with.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Good point. When placing a deposit to hold an MDX coming in, many folks don't sign a sales contract, but they sign something else (I'll have to see if I still have it) that documents a deposit on a vehicle. When I made my deposit, both the dealership and I signed it, and it had the price I would be charged for the vehicle. I also made them write in and initial that I could decide not to take that vehicle, and that accessories were at my discretion.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Your experience illustrates the point nicely. And that's the reason you are a happy MDX owner and other's are still waiting.

    The vehicle is wildly popular, but you proved that if you go into the car buying experience armed with facts and a methodical approach, you'll minimize the wait and tilt the odds in your favor for an enjoyable experience. And this holds true for any brand of vehicle.

    Enjoy the miles.
  • galvanggalvang Member Posts: 156
    So far the MDX has performed quite well in all types of driving. I am a very happy owner. No Problems so far except for some strange squealing noise coming from my steering wheel shaft. After readjusting the drivers steering position the sound went away. With over 12,000 miles the quarks of this first year vehicle are noticable.

    1) Infamous water in the side view mirror.
    2) No lights in the buttons that control power and view mirrors.
    3) No lights on the buttons in the steering wheel.
    4) No electronic manual transmission (steptronic).
    5) Brakes sometimes make noise when they heat up.

    These are minor issues but surely Acura can go along way in improving these issues.

    The MDX has been extremely reliable so far in driving up & down MTN passes and long trips. Have not tryed it snow. I had the opportunity but could not make it. Its been a very good work horse hualing stuff in the back with all that room. Went on fishing safari in the sierras. Caught a couple 20 and 22 inch rainbows of the Carson river near Markleeville. MDX handled very nicely offroad near the river.

    Gas milage does vary quite a bit. City is about 16MPG with 22-23mpg highway. AC does play a difference but no that dramatic. Up the hill it sucks up gas while going down does about 38MPG.

    So far the [non-permissible content removed] do know how to make more reliable cars than the Euro's. Happy camper with the MDX.
  • pamopamo Member Posts: 39
    Just returned from towing a 4,000 lb. boat for l0 hours round trip - MDX performed great, and averaged about l4 mpg. I had to replace the electrical converter (not under warranty but as a one-time goodwill repair!?) a few weeks ago, now is working properly.
  • pklasen1pklasen1 Member Posts: 2
    Pamo # 2588
    Can you be more specific as to the electrical
    converter that had to be replaced? Where is located. Thanks Golfballs
  • aip00aip00 Member Posts: 5
    I just wonder if you receive a 2001 model from now until September, would you still pay MSRP for it? Or you will wait for the 2002 model?
    Is 2001 model already dis-continued?
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Here we're talking premiums *over* MSRP.

    I've been walking the MDX line the past month or so - here in Brooklyn, space is a commodity, especially garage space. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place - wife's due in January, and I'd like to get my new car before then, at least in time for the baby.

    Couldn't find another vehicle to fit my space/needs better than the MDX, but at the same time, can't get delivery of one until December the earliest. Initially figured that some people dropping out of 2001 allocations to wait for 2002s would make for a cheaper car in a shorter time frame. Fat chance.

    So now, I'm stumped - RX300, not quite big enough. Sequoia or Expedition, too damn big. Highlander, too damn ugly (don't even mention the Aztek). ML320 - too many of them around the neighborhood, doesn't appeal to my need to be different (not that I like it's styling either). X5 - I'd need another $10k to match the MDX, and the 2002 Explorer - let's just say Ford doesn't make me happy these days, no matter how much I'd like to support my American engineering brethren.

    I guess the wait is on ;)
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    If the RX300 doesn't meet your space needs, the X5 won't either. Have a look at the trunk :-)
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    Considered a Buick Rendezvous? I'm not joking.

    (Well, maybe a little). The look is oddly appealing once you adjust, and a loaded model at invoice isn't such a bad deal... until you consider the engine which has been universally condemned by every objective automotive journalist out there. Still, might be an alternative, especially given your various needs...
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Hey, good to hear from you. Glad you're happy with it. Hopefully Acura will eventually issue a final fix for the infamous weeping mirror issue.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Bob, yeah, I actually think the Rendezvous looks decent from a styling perspective. I also have to admit I think I like the exterior styling of the Hyundai Santa Fe (though obviously a significantly smaller vehicle in a different class).

    Though I'd hold off on the Buick until there were crash test results; I'm a bit leery after seeing some relatively recent GM large vehicle scores.

    I still love the X5's look, though somewhat less so now that the new Toyota RAV4 is oddly similar from the side view ...

    Did the RX300 Silversport not do enough for you? Or was it that it's nearly impossible to get one without a sunroof?
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The Rendezvous' styling still looks a bit polarising to me, though a tremendous improvement from its ugly duckling slightly shorter sister, the Aztek. The wheels are a bit too small, and the rear hatch design is a bit odd, as are the high taillamp positions. The tail pipe has got to be the ugliest I've ever seen, LOL. A Canadian journalist also commented on this and remarked that it was even worse than from a muffler shop :-).

    I think my biggest "worry" about this vehicle is how it will perform in the offset crash test. As we all know, both the Aztek and Rendezvous are built on a shortened GM minivan platform. That was the only way GM could get the 3rd row and flat floor to work. My fear is that the underlying problem has not been addressed and like the GM minivan, it will have massive crumpling and intrusion in an offset crash.

    If this is the situation, then it will be another case of good concept, poor execution. While we can extrapolate based on the GM minivan platform crash test results, I guess we won't know for certain till the IIHS tests either the Aztek or the Rendezvous. We do know one thing though, and that is that the Aztek's side impact scores are not at the top of the class, at 4 stars for front occupants (with side front airbags), and a measly 3 stars for the rear occupants. Since the rear is where kids usually sit, this alone would dissuade me even more as I'm sure it will for you (not that adults aren't important too).


    Drew
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  • pamopamo Member Posts: 39
    Golfballs - don't know exactly where the converter is located, but I believe it is located in the back and possibly a part of the tow package. It is the switching device that controls the brake lights/ turn signals. Hitting the brakes would activate the turn signal on the car. All the activity kept blowing out the fuses to my signals. Does this help? I will find out more if you'd like more detailed information. Although the dealer stated they had no previous problems with this part, the problem seems to have been corrected with the new part.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    I can see a point, thankfully, where most vehicles will achieve high IIHS scores. Obviously most of the German brands will reach that first, and I think most of the Japanese ones will too, and eventually even the American makes will do well. Hopefully the MDX will have the scores Acura expects, but we won't know until they publish.

    I wonder if eventually NHTSA and IIHS will have to raise the bar upwards. You're very knowledgeable on European standards; are the EuroNCAP tests more realistic than the IIHS frontal test, or just graded more stringently? When I was browsing www.euroncap.com, it seemed that their rating scale left a lot more room at the top for fine improvements. E.g. in their tests only one vehicle has yet hit the five-star level, despite the many vehicles they tested that have done well in the American tests. Is their test more severe or is their grading curve broader?

    Then again, I can imagine many automobile manufacturers howling with protest if NHTSA and IIHS raised the bar -- I think Americans are now accustomed to the idea that they're getting "5 stars! highest rating!" and "highest scores in the IIHS crash test!" and there'd be a concern of shifting the grading scale.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The European NCAP far more stringent, I think. Not only do they factor in the offset crash test, but also a full width front crash test, a side impact crash test, as well as a pedestrian compatibility test. I think they crash test all new cars (or at least the most popular ones first), since it's supposed to be a new car assestment programme. All cars sold in the E.U. from October 1998 onwards must meet strict new requirements not only for the full width front crash test, but the front offset crash test too. If the Ford Focus wasn't sold in Europe, do you think that it would do as well as it did? Probably not I think. Note that the N.American Civic is also sold in Europe. Hmm, makes you wonder, doesn't it?

    The EuroNCAP is a lot less lenient as far as chest compression figures goes. That's why there can sometimes be some discrepancy between the IIHS and EuroNCAP ratings. It's also why you find that European cars tend to do better in general. The Euro manufacturers take this into account partly since safety aside, it's important that their cars get a good score in the home market.

    As far as the side impact crash test goes, in the Euro-NCAP side impact test, a stationary vehicle with dummies seated in the driver's and front passenger's seat is rammed by a moving ram (with a deformable aluminum honeycomb barrier - like the offset crash) going 50 km/h directly centered on the driver's seating postition. The NHTSA uses two rams (not simultaneously of course), plowing into the front side and then the rear side at a 27 degree angle. Because of the use of two rams, two different cars are necessary. You see how this starts to get expensive. The NHTSA needs to buy 3 cars in order to do front and full rear side impact crash testing. This is also the reason why you sometimes see "no data" for the rear side impact section. It's because they didn't test the rear door/position for the side impact crash test.

    There is a new provision in the Euro-NCAP protocol for a side impact pole test to be conducted at the manufacturer's expense. This only applies to the scoring where a maximum head score is achieved in the side impact barrier test and a "head protecting" side airbag is provided.

    Euro-NCAP also has a testing program geared towards protecting pedestrians as well. Since pedestrians are much more vulnerable than car occupants when a crash occurs. Euro NCAP's pedestrian evaluation tests the most hazardous areas of each model. This is done by firing dummy parts at those areas, simulating 40kph accidents involving adults and children. A simulated leg is impacted against the front bumper, an upper leg against the front edge of the hood, and both child and adult-sized dummy heads, at points on the hood. Each of the heads are tested at six different locations and each limb at three, making 18 impacts in all. Measuring devices inside the dummy parts record the severity of impact, and the results are used to rate each car. No cars yet tested have provided sufficient protection to meet all of the requirements of the proposed legislation.

    Now don't you wish the NHTSA would get its act together? :-)

    Drew
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  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Thanks for the comprehensive info. I had suspected the tests were more stringent. Thus, if a EuroNCAP score is available for the same vehicle, I guess I'd weigh it higher than IIHS, and in turn weigh NHTSA higher.

    Most of this is studying for that eventual late 2002 / first-half 2003 purchase of a sedan. With a lighter vehicle, riding lower, it's definitely going to be something with very good crash protection, even weighed higher than AWD, and reliability can even be average though preferrably at least above average (frankly it'll be mostly a short-trip to child care, park-and-ride vehicle).

    No, a C-class is out of the question. In the under-$20k range, only the Civic has proven crash test scores (including EuroNCAP) with at least average reliability. But I'd rather not buy the Civic -- nice vehicle, but definitely not a good park-and-ride car because of rather high theft rates -- quite popular among teens wanting to steal a car or get parts. I'd rather get an Impreza (not the WRX, just an RS), and its scores should be out by the time we buy. But it isn't sold in Europe, is it, and thus no EuroNCAP test. Plus it might be too small.

    In the under $25k range, the Passat barely fits into that budget but I've always liked it, and it does well in all the crash tests and has a very good array of safety equipment, including side curtains which I'd like in a sedan. Redesigned Camry? May not be a good park-and-ride vehicle either. Maybe Nissan will hit a safety home run with the new Altima, unlike previous Nissans. There's always the Legacy, which has AWD to boot (VDC too expensive) though like most Subes, no side airbags. If I had to buy today (which I don't) it'd be the Passat if we could afford it, and the Civic otherwise until the Impreza is tested. (Maybe we'd buy the Civic in a really ugly color ... just kidding.)
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Actually, the current Impreza is sold in Europe and has always been sold there. They get even more potent versions that we (alas) don't get over here. Since that car was designed for World Rally Championship use in mind, the structure is very solid. The rally car is essentially identical structurally, to the road car, albeit it has an extremely strong rollcage which is able to withstand over 20 times the car's weight!

    While the Impreza wasn't tested, the Forester (which is based on the previous generation Impreza platform) was, and it was the only small SUV to receive a "good", up till recently. I think it's a safe bet that the current Impreza will do well in crash tests, plus you can get that cool wagon version to boot!

    IIRC, the Subaru Legacy is available with side impact airbags, as is the Impreza and the Forester. Side curtains are nice and arguably essential in a car, but you don't forget that many seat mounted airbags have head protection chambers too (Saab's comes into mind, as does Nissan's for the Maxima).

    48 hours did something recently on car thefts and anti-theft devices, and they were saying that Hondas are one of the most easily stolen cars out there. Older Camrys are up there too, probably because of their popularity.

    Have you considered getting a slightly used (originally more expensive) car? That could be the ticket too.
  • galvanggalvang Member Posts: 156
    Thanks. Its been awhile, been awfully busy. MDX is treating me well, hope for you too.

    As for the Buick Rodevoux. I agree with Drew that Buick did nice job with this Suedo SUV. With Tiger Woods help in his marketing skills it should sale well. If Buick can show some quality workmanship that lack on some of our domestic car products buyes will flock to this SUV. So far, Aztek was a failure for GM so the better looking sister better pick up the slack.

    Rondevoux's exterior look asthetically nice. Some nice features such as a HUD "Head up Display" for radio and speed. Saftey feature such as tire pressure sensor/warning. With the right brand and type tire this should not matter. 4x4 and half decent gas milage are some of the plusses for this SUV.

    On the negative side, a weak 185HP engine and cheap looking plastic controls. When will our domestic car MFGrs learn to design astheticlly pleasing interior such as the Euro's or even the Japanese?? The offshore companies just keep leep frogging us in terms of the classiness in the interiors. Got to do something there.

    Its funny you mentioned about the Passat. If the market was doing well that would have been my next sedan, second car. With 4-wheel-in-motion and the interior styling and features its a "poor mans A6". Its a good deal. The warranty lacks though for that car 2/24k but I heard rumors it was going to 4/48k for 2002. That needs to be confirmed. Nice styling on the 2001+. Would have been acceptable as a second car. But, the market just plain suck. Bring Clinton Back!!!!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Edmunds's link
     
    SUVs Get Poor Marks in Bumper Tests

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Please note that this is NOT the IIHS offset crash test.

    In addition to the article that shows the seven vehicles tested, here is the list of all mid-sized SUV's they've tested and where the MDX stands among them:

    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_midsuv.htm

    "MDX is the best performer: Among the seven vehicles the Institute tested, 'the Acura MDX has the best bumper systems. In fact, it has the best bumpers of any midsize SUV the Institute has ever tested,' Lund points out."
This discussion has been closed.