Last May I stopped at a dealer in Thunder Bay, Ontario that had three MDX's on the lot for MSRP. I was told that Acura told them that they were prohibited from selling to U.S. customers. The only way around this is to get a mailing address in Canada. Too much hassle for me....
I live in Portland,Oregon and have contacted 2 Acura dealers with an interest in test driving a 2002 MDX and possible purchase. The Portland dealer and the Salem dealer give no possibility of a test drive and one indicated that the wait to even get an MDX could be one year. One suggested that I consider looking at the ML or Mercury Mountaineer.
Does this match the experience of others? Maybe I should give up on considering the MDX?
Things to remember. It won't talk to you. It can't plot a course for you. It doesn't point in the direction your car is traveling.
It does show your position on a map that scrolls as you travel. You can zoom the map window in and out. It shows route/road and street names when you zoom in far enough. It will even report your compass direction of travel, speed, and elevation.
Oh. You have to download maps to the handheld with a PC. County by county. It can hold about 300 counties in its 8 meg memory.
I thank Chicago and S. California for your responses. I have waited patiently for one year and decided that the 2001 had too much wind noise. I liked the vehicle except for that. Now I thought that the initial demand would slow a little and I could see the 2002. So far I haven't even seen a 2002 and when I ask for a test drive I feel like I was supposed to order one sight unseen and then wait.
There must be so many customers that Acura does not have to make much effort to sell.
I am still looking, but the X5 , Audi Allroad and Lincoln Navigator ( distant 3rd choice) are available slightly used and the dealers really want to sell them. Someone who wants you looks better and better than the one who is too busy!!!
Call Sam at Acura 101 West in Calabasas, CA (LA area)-- phone number can be found at Acura.com under dealers in California -- go right to Acura 101 West's web site. I called Sam a week and a half ago and he had a base Mesa Beige 2002 that he was happy to sell to me for sticker. The car is to arrive at his dealership near Thanksgiving. As of a week ago, it was still available. He also had a Granite Green base available but that car may be gone by now. Sam was a very nice guy to deal with and his dealership is one of the largest in California. He treated me with plenty of respect. I ultimately decided not to truck the car to Pennsylvania due to the cost and instead have made a purchase of an '02 Mesa Beige Touring from a dealer in South Carolina but you would be very happy I think in dealing with Sam. I have owned everything you can own and I believe that dollar for dollar, the MDX is the way to go and is the right choice for the best built SUV with the most desirable features currently available. Don't be put off by what you have found locally -- if you are willing to make a few calls outside your immediate area and if you are persistent, you will definitely get what you want. Best of luck.
Just reached 20K miles today and overall experience -- Solid and practical with some minor irritations. Highs -- Acceleration, Room, 7 passenger seating, Trouble free, Good road manner, Quite good for light off-road use, Can take heavy load without noticeable penalty. Lows -- Wind and road noise, Radio, 2nd/3rd row seat not very comfortable, Need to downshift more promptly. Priced at mid 30K, it is a good bargain compare to other SUV's.
Tidester, thanks for the warm welcome; i look forward to gaining more knowledge from the old hands here -- such as ispsxc1's 20K driving report.
And TGIF888 -- thanks for the tip of going to acura.com for leasing information. unfortunately, to get it you have to fill out an application, giving them your SS#, home phone, work info, etc. that's way more than i want to disclose just to get a rough idea. dd
...the gall, almost giddyness of Acura dealers sitting in their catbird seats. I emailed my local Long Island dealer (Island Acura or Wantagh) for a quote and got back the following: WE ARE SOLD OUT FOR THE 2001 MDX MODEL YEAR. WE HAVE 2002 MDX MODELS ON ORDER FOR 04/2001 DELIVERY !!!!! OUR SPECIAL 2002 MDX INTERNET PRICE IS $35180 PLUS $1000 MARKET ADJUSTMENT. ALL QUOTES ARE PLUS TAX. INCLUDES FREIGHT, PREP, DESTINATION CHARGES. DOES NOT INCLUDE DEALER INSTALLED OPTIONS.
Gee, lucky me, I can shell out the "special internet" price for the base MDX model of $36,180 (34,700MSRP + 480DC + 1,000 additional dealer markup). And then wait "only" 5 months (possibly longer as I write this) for earliest delivery. i'm sure the 4/2001 was a typo and he meant spring of 2002. Boy, am I glad I'm special! (Oh, I'm only special for 7 days from the date of the email, when prices and delivery terms are subject to change without notice.)
I'm always amazed how consumers get upset when a dealer has a hot product and due to supply and demand (not of his own making- but the consumer) decides to charge more than the SUGGESTED retail price for a high demand vehicle. The operative word here is SUGGESTED. mSrp! These are the same consumers who will go into a dealer for a vehicle that is not in heavy demand, and badger them until they sell the vehicle at a LOSS (like $200-300 over MSRP) and feel like they have done nothing wrong. The next day, that same consumer demands a 10% raise from his/her boss because he/she feels that they are not being paid what they're worth. What hypocrites! No, I do not sell cars for a living and yes I know that dealers do not make money on new cars (even with the holdback). If I did sell cars for a living, I would sell the MDX for $5000 over MSRp, or as much as I could, as long as the MARKET will determine the price! You remember that theory from High School guys, Right? Yes the good old AMERICAN way- supply and demand. If you cannot afford the MDX at whatever price it is- TOUGH! These consumers are also the same ones who would charge whatever they could for any service THEY perform, but G-D forbid anyone else wants to do the same. In addition- what really galls me about today's Consumer Report Reading-Follow The Mantra crowd is that outside of car/Suv shopping, what other product can you name that you can look up it'ds actual cost and then present it to the retailer as a weapon? And where is it written that you have a RIGHT to know the cost of ANYTHING before you buy it? And why do we single out car dealers for this info blitz? Don't answer me that this is a big ticket item- because I will answer that for example- do you know the actual cost that a builder has when erecting you a new home? Stop the incessant bleating about gouging dealers and look at yourselves for a change. Everyone does have a right to make a living- and you the consumer has the right to walk away from any purchase if you want to........
Actually, I found a link about a year ago (who knows where it is now!) that could peg a builder's cost for new construction in your area. For existing construction, it's pretty easy to find a square foot rule of thumb for value and replacement cost. But you summed it up nicely - the price you pay all boils down to what the market will bear. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Although I would add that supply and demand does not justify treating customers like crap and selling a car out from underneath someone just because they are out of town for a few days (MDX story posted quite a while ago). You can still treat a customer properly while charging what the market dictates.
Shelly, If dealers hadn't screwed consumers for years on cars by creating and playing the game of MSRP, than none of this would happen today. Also, dealers don't "lose" money on any car they sell, they simply break even or make less.
I'm fairly certain that MSRP stickers on vehicles started off as a Government mandated item- not dealer originated. Also, how is MSRP "screwing the public and "playing games"? Sorry, rihoops, you're only partially right about profits on new cars- dealers make far more on used cars & service than new cars. In fact, most car dealers could never survive on new car sales alone......
I don't understand precisely what is wrong with customers (potential) complaining about dealers going over MSRP. It just the flip side of the "I got it for X dollars under MSRP" gloating. I see nothing wrong with that either!
Either way, it is the free market speaking. Sometimes you buy and sometimes you don't.
I don't see any relationship between the two scenarios. In one (under MSRP) the consumer thinks he has outsmarted the dealer (and maybe the system) and I say let them feel that way, even if they are being silly. In the other scenario (over MSRP), the consumer is essentially claiming that the dealer is a crook. That the Dealer has no RIGHT to charge more than MSRP. As if MSRP is G-D's law. It goes deeper than that- in scenario 2, the consumer feels that the dealer is not ENTITLED to make as much as he can when the market forces dictate as much. The consumer feels that is UNETHICAL to make extra money, This kind of thinking goes against everything the free market system is all about. It also dovetails unfortunately with the recently increasing idea in America that making a lot of money is somehow almost sinful. Did you ever hear the expression "filthy rich"? It comes out of the depression-era days when there was a great disparity between the have's & the have-nots. This disgusting class-envy stuff just annoys the heck out of me. If you can't afford something in life-TOO BAD! Work harder or be more creative, but don't be jealous or envious of what others who have more money than you can accomplish. Let their achievements be an inspiration to you, and if you want to achieve what you perceive they have- EMULATE THEIR BEHAVIOR. Don't put them down.
This kind of thinking goes against everything the free market system is all about.
I beg to differ! This is precisely the free market in its purest form. While the seller can, will and should do everything in his/her power to maximize profit, the buyer can, will and should do everything to minimize cost!
They either agree on the transaction or they do not. If they agree on the transaction, then they have agreed that the selling price and buying price are fair. Otherwise, the sale/purchase are not made. Either way, this is the free market!
They may express their satisfaction in arriving at an equitable trade or they may express their dissatisfaction at not having come to an agreement.
I wonder how many dealers mutter under their breath at how despicable a potential customer was because the customer didn't give him what he wanted! It's a two-way street!
Going to the supermarket and being told Cap'n Crunch was a hot item in today's market so they needed an extra $1 a box over the retail price, or that the VCR in the ad was the "only one" at that price.
I have to speak up on the supply/demand thing. While it may be a free market at its most naked, it does not build any customer loyalty to get your ordered car sold out from under you because another customer paid more. It does not build loyalty to charge over MSRP.
I'll give you a better example of professionalism. When the MB ML came out years ago before the competition had hybrids like the MDX and X5, the waiting list was over a year. It was over two years in other countries. I didn't hear any cases of dealers selling over MSRP, though I did heard of them selling used MLs for over MSRP. I didn't hear of them selling cars out from under customers who were in line.
I read a lot of complaints about both behaviors with the Honda Odyssey, the Honda S2000, and the MDX. I had thought Acura would be above the sort of thing Honda dealers are known for, but I guess not...
We are talking at cross purposes here. I'm not saying that we don't currently have a free market system, quite the contrary- I'm promoting the idea very strongly. What I'm complaining about are those INDIVIDUALS who rail against dealers for charging more for a hot product-not the fact they just complain- but the fact that they actually feel they are being cheated somehow. Tidester, when you take a quote out of context you have to carefully read what the statement is attached to. If you re-read the quote you will see that it only applies to the cheapo CONSUMER mentioned above. The guy who wants something for nothing. The guy who thinks that he/she is entitled to special treatment just because they want to buy a vehicle. That somehow Market Forces don't apply when THEY want to buy something. In answer to suzann's post- the better example would be gasoline- the price fluctuates on the open oil market DAILY, and that's why the retail price does fluctuate constantly. Supply & Demand. If Cap'n Crunch is made from rice for example, and there happened to be a shortage of rice in the world this year, then the price of Cap'n Crunch WOULD DEFINITELY rise, and then like the MDX, it would be up to YOU wether you would fork over the extra money or not. If VCRs require a certain type of chip for example & there were to be a worldwide shortage of chips, then the price of VCRs would rise, and again it would be your choice to buy them or not. Additionally, the reason why the VCR is a particularly bad example to try to use is that obviously there are no production limitations on VCRs and even if there are, there more than enough to meet the cureent demand. Obviously the current production schedule of the MDX is not large enough to meet current demand, so you are free to pay extra or BUY SOME OTHER SUV. The example you gave of 1 VCR implys that the retailer chose to only have one in stock, and intentionally misled the public. In the case of Acura, the dealer has no such control, as they havevtheir MDXs ALLOCATED to them. They have little choice. And Finally kenyee (talk about being misunderstood), I don't argue that a dealer should not intentionally defraud a consumer by circumvention or any other means- but what does that have to do with what we are talking about? You can find slimy retailers in any field, and I'm not condoning that. That dealer still has the right to charge whatever they want for a product- just as you have the right to buy it or not. If the dealer is slimy- BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE!
I've never haggled at the grocery store (except to point out the scanner messing up), but their margins are very low anyway. I have asked for, and received, "discounts" at Nordstroms, motels, furniture stores, realtor commissions, thrift stores, you name it. I saved $5 yesterday by asking for a break on my sprinkler blow-out (he was glad to do so, since I signed my neighbor up with him too).
I won't drive across town to save .50 cents, nor do I spend a lot of time cross-shopping (except for cars), but if you don't "test" the price, you aren't pursuing the fair market value of an item.
In the case of an Odyssey or MDX, for example, the FMV or TMV may well be $1,000's over the MSRP. And it the value is there, I'll gladly pay it. ymmv.
And kenyee makes an excellent point - haggling does not mean that I'm a jerk about asking for money off (nor would I post a rant on the net, shellymeister2), and I don't expect the seller to be unprofessional in his response to me. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I think we're describing the same thing - the free market doesn't really care about motives and individual character! Let a person whine about feeling cheated. Either he purchased or did not.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time ranting. I'd either find a new dealer or an alternate product and possibly even defer purchase until I deemed the situation equitable.
I was just saying that a free market doesn't have to mean being unprofessional. I'd agree that the way it is now is a free market, but Honda/Acura are not forcing dealers to act professionally (their choice..doesn't have to be that way). And yes, there are some Honda dealers who do, but it seems they are a rarity.
Agreed with Ken. Free market may mean you can charge about MSRP, but it doesn't mean that you treat customers like crap. Unfortunately, a number of Acura dealerships, with a high-demand vehicle on their hands, are doing exactly that.
we are indeed in a "free market," but not to the true sense of the word. everyone is foregetting that the government still oversees the economy to ensure it's stability and growth. otherwise there wouldn't be government controlled natural monopolies, antitrust acts, price ceilings on public housing, etc. but there are also inconsistencies. for example, after sept 11, there were gas stations that raised prices to $5/gallon and were quickly regulated by government officials for gouging. so why aren't the dealers being regulated for gouging when they charge over msrp. similar to dealerships, each customer could have bought gas elsewhere until the market dictates that gas isn't worth $5/gallon. all i can say is that since some dealers are charging over msrp for their cars, the best way to stop them from doing so is to not buy your vehicle there. but at the same time, the market obviously is willing to bear that price since people are indeed paying over msrp. so there is no clear cut solution to this problem. but one thing is clear, dealers should act professionally to all clients whether they buy or not. but that too is unrealistic to expect.
The government jumped in becuase, you have no choice but to buy gas if you have a car. To live a productive life, the common agreement is, you most likely need a car.
If gas owners were scummy enough to try and make money when not due, they should be stopped. If oil is running at $100 a barrel, they may have a case to charge $5/gallon.
Remember, the power company cannot chose to charge $100 per kilo watt hour. They have to get approval before. The gas industry isn't under this government control as it is supposedly a competitive industry and is almost...
You do have a choice when buying a vehicle. The dealer may charge what ever they wish, you have the option to not buy if it isn't worth it.
Mercedes did charge over MSRP on the ML and the SLK and others... They did it by forcing people to buy options they didn't want. Cell phone, protection packages, etc.
Ford is doing it with the new Thunderbird. Porche did it with the boxter.
Is it wrong to pay 10-40% over on a house? Sick, but now wrong...
Now, so, what's the deal. Is the 2002 better than the 2001? What about door dings? How's the engine on regular unleaded?
Happy safe driving and let's put an end to sick political groups claiming religious causes.
Improvements seem to be aimed at noise-vibration-harshness. The front windshield is thicker, some of the seals are updated, the roof rack (standard in Touring model) has been moved back, a thicker headliner added, some sound insulation. Rear window wiper is now intermittent. Some new colors like white and redrock pearl and, supposedly in the spring, havasu blue.
No major changes in the vehicle (e.g. engine the same, no new doo-dads). Price up slightly.
Supposedly all 2002's have fixes for problems in some of the earlier 2001's (e.g. the thud, weeping mirrors).
The new accessory (not a standard item, unfortunately) are body side moldings, which can be ordered cheaper by shopping hondacuraworld.com. Easy to install on your own.
Mercedes did charge over MSRP on the ML and the SLK and others... They did it by forcing people to buy options they didn't want. Cell phone, protection packages, etc.
Actually, no on MB. When you placed your order, they didn't force you to tack on crap. Ditto w/ dealer-installed options...unforced. Those on the lot were sold as-is (no dealer-installed stuff) w/ whatever options were installed at the factory (usually from customer cancellations).
That's what a lot of Acura dealers did (tack on dealer-installed stuff) w/ the MDX though, if you read acuramdx.
Okay guys and gals--here's the price breakdown I received from my dealer (with whom I've been on the waiting list since March for my 2002 Tafetta white, touring, nav.)
Base price 39,780.00 VIN etch 295.00 doc. fee 50.00 state insp. 21.75 states sales tax 2,486.25 luxury tax 71.20 vehicle invent. tax 70.99 lic. & reg. fees 84.30 ________________________________ total selling price 42,859.49 (without options)
Now, about the options--which can I easily install myself? I'm considering the side steps 850.00 (dealer installed price follows each item), cargo cover 249.00, cargo net 99.00, rear mud flaps 149.00, and side mouldings 349.00.
The dealer is pushing new car seals (for exterior paint and interior leather protection)--any thoughts about this? They are offering 3 MDX "Protection Packages."
I have to keep in mind that anything over 38,000 gets the 4% luxury tax--options I buy now get taxed 6.25% instead of 8.25% (local sales tax) and the warranty is for 4 yrs instead of 1yr. if it's dealer installed at the time of purchase.
But hey, I think I can install a cargo net, cargo cover, mud flaps, side mouldings, and even the side steps! Why would I want to pay 10.25% tax on those items?
Has anyone had problems with the dealer-installed options--or if you've installed them yourself?
I'll definitely have to check out Hondacuraworld.com!!
Usually I just lurk but after reading your post/question I just gotta respond FAST!
- Get all those options yourself and install them yourself. they are all EASY. Those prices are OUTRAGEOUS. You will save 50%+ (side moldings are $100 or less; side steps are $350, FYI; the other items on there are similarly inflated). check hondacuraworld.com for prices. FWIW, IMO the only accessories you should have the dealer install are the tow hitch/cooler combo and the wood steering wheel.
- What's with the VIN etch? Is that etching the VIN into the windows? It's worth about $35. I *hope* it isn't required. Tell them you DON'T want it!
- What state are you in? What's a vehicle invent tax?
- Skip anything the finance guy tries to sell you, especially the scotchguard and wax. Uh, I mean the "vehicle protection". You could by YEARS worth of GREAT product for less. Total ripoff unless it's less than 50 bucks.
It is so amusing to listen to the discussion about the 'fairness' of paying over MSRP for the '02 MDX we all want. There is nothing 'fair' about it. It is simply ridiculous and insulting to suggest that if we are not willing to meet a dealer's MSRP plus demands, we are somehow un-American; it is equally ridiculous to think that these cars cannot be bought right now for less than a premium over sticker.
What I can tell anyone who is looking for an '02 MDX as I have been, is that they ARE out there in the colors you want with the equipment you desire WITHOUT having to pay a premium over MSRP. Yes, you do have to do your homework -- locate dealers online through Acura.com, make phone calls and email inquiries to several dealers, compare their inventories and prices and sometimes make return calls and emails -- but I assure you that cars are out there and that there are honest and reputable Acura dealers who refuse to charge more than MSRP or to play games with serious customers who are ready to buy.
I found a great dealership in LA -- Acura 101 West (talk to Sam Motamedi, Internet Manager) -- and I have also found several dealerships in the South -- North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida -- who have cars coming or current inventory and are ready and willing to sell to out of state customers at sticker.
Yes, there are dealers who want to charge as much as $1,000 - 3,000 over MSRP to give you what you want and some dealers who claim that Acura won't let them sell "out of region" to Internet or telephone customers. Hogwash, I say.
Like me, if you really want this car and are willing to roll up your sleeves and do the necessary homework, you WILL find what you're looking for at no more than sticker price.
Thanks for all the insults...But...........It's YOU "Mark" who is exactly proving my point- you have the CHOICE as a consumer to go wherever you want to try to purchase your coveted MDX. Again, so even "Mark" can understand- it is not "Un-American" for anyone to not pay a premium over MSRP. It is your CHOICE. CHOICE. CHOICE. Is that so hard? What "Mark" can't comprehend is that there are no other products sold in America today that have an equivalent of a MSRP sticker. Does any one remember FAIR TRADE? Most products sold in America years ago used to have either a Fair Trade, or MSRP price listed with it. This practice was banned by the court eventually as being non-competitive and yes UN-AMERICAN. Why do vehicles sold here still have an MSRP? Can anyone out there answer me intelligently without calling names? The price of everything should be determined by competitive factors, demand, quality, product positioning, etc. And then it would be a much more competitive marketplace.
"Mark".......Is your time worth anything? All the time that you will spend trying to save a $1000 that will be easily eaten up in the time you expend trying to do so- not to mention the gas and other expenses you will incur when you travel 150 miles or more to save that $1000- wow! what a victory for you the vaunted consumer!
You are so right! After checking out hondacuraworld.com, I see that I am able to buy the cargo cover, cargo net, side steps, all-season floor mats, rear splash guards, wheel locks, and cargo tray for less than what the dealer was going to charge me for the side steps alone!! (You can see that I even threw in a few more items...).
I live in Austin, Texas--it appears the VIN etch is required at $295.00--I'll ask about whether or not it's optional, but I doubt it. It's pre-printed on the buyers order, along with the documentary fee. The vehicle inventory tax amounts to $71.20 (not sure what that is).
My next step is to contact Sam Motamedi in California, out of curiosity--just to see how things fare out West. I'm not going to run ragged looking for the best deal out there--I'm way too busy. I realize I may be paying a premium, but I've worked extra hard this year--and this is my reward
I'm not sure how long it'll take me to install the side steps (anyone want to share their experiences here?) but I'm game--it may take me a month to find the time to install it, but I've got a lifetime to enjoy my MDX!
Putting in the cargo cover, cargo tray, and all-season floor mats are no-brainers. Can't believe dealers inflate prices on them with "labor" costs.
Putting in the rear mudguards can be a bit of a pain if you don't remove the rear wheels. Two of the screws can be fastened fairly easily, but the third requires an "L" screwdriver or something that works with minimal clearance because the tire gets in the way. Some folks just leave it off, which only works if you don't plan to drive in deep snow.
The cargo net mounts in more than one position so it can be a bit confusing but there are various links that show different installation patterns so that becomes easy.
The body side moldings have been installed by many owners without much trouble. Basically prep the area with some alcohol, tape on the templates, and stick. Better done with two people. There are various Internet links to installation advice.
The side steps are tedious because they use lots and lots and lots of bolts (72, I think). It goes much easier if you raise the vehicle.
The alternative to the Acura OEM sidesteps are the Maniks. Some people prefer the look of the former, some prefer the latter (which are cheaper). The latter has had some complaints about a cheaper footpad that would crack around the screw holes but Manik has been pretty responsive and have shipped those customers redesigned footpads.
As far as dealerships go, it may be a matter of calling around. I think that it should not be as difficult to find an MDX at straight MSRP in Texas than, say, the Pacific Northwest, where (last I heard) every dealership is charging above MSRP (we tend to get vehicle discounts last; it was that way with the RX300 and ML320; watching others around the country get great deals above invoice while dealerships here were still negotiating at or just below MSRP).
Does it sound like I am paying MSRP? (except for that $295 for VIN etch)--the dealer's quote for the base price of the vehicle, including the touring package and the navigation system is $39,780 (before adding all the other taxes, etc.).
When people say they are being quoted prices ABOVE MSRP--does that mean their base price is inflated? or does the dealer add on options they can't refuse (like the VIN etch)?
The figure that is missing from all of these discussions is dealer invoice--I haven't seen that one tossed around...probably don't want to know? Anyway, I would be curious what that figure is.
Dealer invoice is no doubt available somewhere around here on Edmunds. Unfortunately, it's irrelevant on the MDX -- sticker is about as good as you're gonna get, and it looks like your base price is close (I don't know the sticker on the 02).
William is right about the accessories. FWIW the Manik steps are easier to install b/c they have fewer bolts. I find the Maniks look more "beefy" while the OEM Acura steps are more "understated".
I installed the steps myself -- it did take about 90 minutes. I can't remember the # of bolts but there were a TON of them. However, most are to assemble the brackets BEFORE attaching to the bottom of the car w/a dozen or so as I recall. I just sat in front of the TV when I did those
I didn't jack up the car to install them; there was ample clearance. If you're REALLY not inclined to install them yourself, you'd probably still save ~$300 (on steps alone) by buying online and paying your dealer's hourly rate for installation. One other alternative is to tell your salesman that you're gonna do that and ask him to match price.
Follow this link to invoice and MSRP pricing on the MDX. Hopefully we'll have the TMV pricing up soon (and it'll be interesting to see where it lands in relation to MSRP). Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Sam didn't have any 2002's available. He does have a 2001, or did when we called him. Seems like a nice guy. He didn't pressure us to put in an order and didn't try to sell add-ons.
I have been following this for a few weeks and am really happy with the advice and thoughts of many people. (Actual pricing from real buyers, buying in Canada and alternatives to dealer options were great topics. However, the debate on competition was less than enlighting; if food to eat and affordable housing are not rights for many Americans, I'm not sure that buying a luxury car for the price you want is.)
Not sure whether anyone has addressed buying the MDX in SF Bay area but any comments would be appreciated. We presently have a Suburu Outback which we love. But, we moved to the east bay and will need a second car by late spring. We frankly don't want a fancy car or even really like SUVs but are interested in the 3rd row, decent safety record and decent gas milage. All my research has lead to the MDX and, possibly the Explorer, Envoy or Tahoe. We, however, cannot stomach the rollover/tire issue whether Ford fixed it or not and the Envoy and the Tahoe are about the same price as the much nicer MDX. (That smug look on the GMC dealer's face went away when I mentioned that we were looking at the MDX. MT's "Truck of the Year"????) When we are ready to buy, we think we will just get the base w/o navigation. (However, rumblings about an MDX based Honda Passport are very interesting. Anyone have an ETA or more info?)
Anyway, we looked the past two weeks and frankly have had a mixed experience. Oakland Acura did not have any MDXs two or so weeks ago but were willing to take a $500 deposit to "gaurantee" one. Acura of Concord had a tricked out $45k touring model and quoted a 3 month wait. This weekend, Oakland Acura had two in stock (a mohongony which the sales guy did not have time to show and a green on the floor which was marked up $2k over MSRP and loaded with overpriced dealer options). They, though, had four or five coming in December.
I think we are going to wait until the Spring, look here as well as in Central and Southern Cal (that LA dealer reference sounds great) and try to hold out for slightly below MSRP. Part of our thinking is that the winter rush is kicking in and we are better served by being patient. Am I being unrealistic?
Comments
Does this match the experience of others? Maybe I should give up on considering the MDX?
Comments?
Things to remember. It won't talk to you. It can't plot a course for you. It doesn't point in the direction your car is traveling.
It does show your position on a map that scrolls as you travel. You can zoom the map window in and out. It shows route/road and street names when you zoom in far enough. It will even report your compass direction of travel, speed, and elevation.
Oh. You have to download maps to the handheld with a PC. County by county. It can hold about 300 counties in its 8 meg memory.
There must be so many customers that Acura does not have to make much effort to sell.
I am still looking, but the X5 , Audi Allroad and Lincoln Navigator ( distant 3rd choice) are available slightly used and the dealers really want to sell them. Someone who wants you looks better and better than the one who is too busy!!!
Call Sam at Acura 101 West in Calabasas, CA (LA area)-- phone number can be found at Acura.com under dealers in California -- go right to Acura 101 West's web site. I called Sam a week and a half ago and he had a base Mesa Beige 2002 that he was happy to sell to me for sticker. The car is to arrive at his dealership near Thanksgiving. As of a week ago, it was still available. He also had a Granite Green base available but that car may be gone by now. Sam was a very nice guy to deal with and his dealership is one of the largest in California. He treated me with plenty of respect. I ultimately decided not to truck the car to Pennsylvania due to the cost and instead have made a purchase of an '02 Mesa Beige Touring from a dealer in South Carolina but you would be very happy I think in dealing with Sam. I have owned everything you can own and I believe that dollar for dollar, the MDX is the way to go and is the right choice for the best built SUV with the most desirable features currently available. Don't be put off by what you have found locally -- if you are willing to make a few calls outside your immediate area and if you are persistent, you will definitely get what you want. Best of luck.
Denis Krill
Erie, PA
Thank you for your tip! Where is the Pacific Northwest on this board?
I think Sam is going to get a few calls!
Highs -- Acceleration, Room, 7 passenger seating, Trouble free, Good road manner, Quite good for light off-road use, Can take heavy load without noticeable penalty.
Lows -- Wind and road noise, Radio, 2nd/3rd row seat not very comfortable, Need to downshift more promptly.
Priced at mid 30K, it is a good bargain compare to other SUV's.
And TGIF888 -- thanks for the tip of going to acura.com for leasing information. unfortunately, to get it you have to fill out an application, giving them your SS#, home phone, work info, etc.
that's way more than i want to disclose just to get a rough idea.
dd
WE ARE SOLD OUT FOR THE 2001 MDX MODEL YEAR. WE HAVE 2002 MDX MODELS ON ORDER FOR 04/2001 DELIVERY !!!!!
OUR SPECIAL 2002 MDX INTERNET PRICE IS $35180 PLUS $1000 MARKET ADJUSTMENT. ALL QUOTES ARE PLUS TAX. INCLUDES FREIGHT, PREP, DESTINATION CHARGES. DOES NOT INCLUDE DEALER INSTALLED OPTIONS.
Gee, lucky me, I can shell out the "special internet" price for the base MDX model of $36,180 (34,700MSRP + 480DC + 1,000 additional dealer markup). And then wait "only" 5 months (possibly longer as I write this) for earliest delivery. i'm sure the 4/2001 was a typo and he meant spring of 2002.
Boy, am I glad I'm special! (Oh, I'm only special for 7 days from the date of the email, when prices and delivery terms are subject to change without notice.)
This is the same plant that will build the Honda-versioned MDX-type SUV.
In addition- what really galls me about today's Consumer Report Reading-Follow The Mantra crowd is that outside of car/Suv shopping, what other product can you name that you can look up it'ds actual cost and then present it to the retailer as a weapon? And where is it written that you have a RIGHT to know the cost of ANYTHING before you buy it? And why do we single out car dealers for this info blitz? Don't answer me that this is a big ticket item- because I will answer that for example- do you know the actual cost that a builder has when erecting you a new home? Stop the incessant bleating about gouging dealers and look at yourselves for a change. Everyone does have a right to make a living- and you the consumer has the right to walk away from any purchase if you want to........
Steve
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Although I would add that supply and demand does not justify treating customers like crap and selling a car out from underneath someone just because they are out of town for a few days (MDX story posted quite a while ago). You can still treat a customer properly while charging what the market dictates.
If dealers hadn't screwed consumers for years on cars by creating and playing the game of MSRP, than none of this would happen today. Also, dealers don't "lose" money on any car they sell, they simply break even or make less.
Sorry, rihoops, you're only partially right about profits on new cars- dealers make far more on used cars & service than new cars. In fact, most car dealers could never survive on new car sales alone......
Either way, it is the free market speaking. Sometimes you buy and sometimes you don't.
tidester
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This kind of thinking goes against everything the free market system is all about.
I beg to differ! This is precisely the free market in its purest form. While the seller can, will and should do everything in his/her power to maximize profit, the buyer can, will and should do everything to minimize cost!
They either agree on the transaction or they do not. If they agree on the transaction, then they have agreed that the selling price and buying price are fair. Otherwise, the sale/purchase are not made. Either way, this is the free market!
They may express their satisfaction in arriving at an equitable trade or they may express their dissatisfaction at not having come to an agreement.
I wonder how many dealers mutter under their breath at how despicable a potential customer was because the customer didn't give him what he wanted! It's a two-way street!
tidester
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I'll give you a better example of professionalism. When the MB ML came out years ago before the competition had hybrids like the MDX and X5, the waiting list was over a year. It was over two years in other countries. I didn't hear any cases of dealers selling over MSRP, though I did heard of them selling used MLs for over MSRP. I didn't hear of them selling cars out from under customers who were in line.
I read a lot of complaints about both behaviors with the Honda Odyssey, the Honda S2000, and the MDX. I had thought Acura would be above the sort of thing Honda dealers are known for, but I guess not...
And Finally kenyee (talk about being misunderstood), I don't argue that a dealer should not intentionally defraud a consumer by circumvention or any other means- but what does that have to do with what we are talking about? You can find slimy retailers in any field, and I'm not condoning that. That dealer still has the right to charge whatever they want for a product- just as you have the right to buy it or not. If the dealer is slimy- BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE!
I won't drive across town to save .50 cents, nor do I spend a lot of time cross-shopping (except for cars), but if you don't "test" the price, you aren't pursuing the fair market value of an item.
In the case of an Odyssey or MDX, for example, the FMV or TMV may well be $1,000's over the MSRP. And it the value is there, I'll gladly pay it. ymmv.
And kenyee makes an excellent point - haggling does not mean that I'm a jerk about asking for money off (nor would I post a rant on the net, shellymeister2), and I don't expect the seller to be unprofessional in his response to me.
Steve
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Personally, I wouldn't waste my time ranting. I'd either find a new dealer or an alternate product and possibly even defer purchase until I deemed the situation equitable.
tidester
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The government jumped in becuase, you have no choice but to buy gas if you have a car. To live a productive life, the common agreement is, you most likely need a car.
If gas owners were scummy enough to try and make money when not due, they should be stopped. If oil is running at $100 a barrel, they may have a case to charge $5/gallon.
Remember, the power company cannot chose to charge $100 per kilo watt hour. They have to get approval before. The gas industry isn't under this government control as it is supposedly a competitive industry and is almost...
You do have a choice when buying a vehicle. The dealer may charge what ever they wish, you have the option to not buy if it isn't worth it.
Mercedes did charge over MSRP on the ML and the SLK and others... They did it by forcing people to buy options they didn't want. Cell phone, protection packages, etc.
Ford is doing it with the new Thunderbird. Porche did it with the boxter.
Is it wrong to pay 10-40% over on a house? Sick, but now wrong...
Now, so, what's the deal. Is the 2002 better than the 2001? What about door dings? How's the engine on regular unleaded?
Happy safe driving and let's put an end to sick political groups claiming religious causes.
No major changes in the vehicle (e.g. engine the same, no new doo-dads). Price up slightly.
Supposedly all 2002's have fixes for problems in some of the earlier 2001's (e.g. the thud, weeping mirrors).
The new accessory (not a standard item, unfortunately) are body side moldings, which can be ordered cheaper by shopping hondacuraworld.com. Easy to install on your own.
Steve
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Mercedes did charge over MSRP on the ML and the SLK and others... They did it by forcing people to buy options they didn't want. Cell phone, protection packages, etc.
Actually, no on MB. When you placed your order, they didn't force you to tack on crap. Ditto w/ dealer-installed options...unforced. Those on the lot were sold as-is (no dealer-installed stuff) w/ whatever options were installed at the factory (usually from customer cancellations).
That's what a lot of Acura dealers did (tack on dealer-installed stuff) w/ the MDX though, if you read acuramdx.
Base price 39,780.00
VIN etch 295.00
doc. fee 50.00
state insp. 21.75
states sales tax 2,486.25
luxury tax 71.20
vehicle invent. tax 70.99
lic. & reg. fees 84.30
________________________________
total selling price 42,859.49
(without options)
Now, about the options--which can I easily install myself? I'm considering the side steps 850.00 (dealer installed price follows each item), cargo cover 249.00, cargo net 99.00, rear mud flaps 149.00, and side mouldings 349.00.
The dealer is pushing new car seals (for exterior paint and interior leather protection)--any thoughts about this? They are offering 3 MDX "Protection Packages."
I have to keep in mind that anything over 38,000 gets the 4% luxury tax--options I buy now get taxed 6.25% instead of 8.25% (local sales tax) and the warranty is for 4 yrs instead of 1yr. if it's dealer installed at the time of purchase.
But hey, I think I can install a cargo net, cargo cover, mud flaps, side mouldings, and even the side steps! Why would I want to pay 10.25% tax on those items?
Has anyone had problems with the dealer-installed options--or if you've installed them yourself?
I'll definitely have to check out Hondacuraworld.com!!
- Get all those options yourself and install them yourself. they are all EASY. Those prices are OUTRAGEOUS. You will save 50%+ (side moldings are $100 or less; side steps are $350, FYI; the other items on there are similarly inflated). check hondacuraworld.com for prices. FWIW, IMO the only accessories you should have the dealer install are the tow hitch/cooler combo and the wood steering wheel.
- What's with the VIN etch? Is that etching the VIN into the windows? It's worth about $35. I *hope* it isn't required. Tell them you DON'T want it!
- What state are you in? What's a vehicle invent tax?
- Skip anything the finance guy tries to sell you, especially the scotchguard and wax. Uh, I mean the "vehicle protection". You could by YEARS worth of GREAT product for less. Total ripoff unless it's less than 50 bucks.
What I can tell anyone who is looking for an '02 MDX as I have been, is that they ARE out there in the colors you want with the equipment you desire WITHOUT having to pay a premium over MSRP. Yes, you do have to do your homework -- locate dealers online through Acura.com, make phone calls and email inquiries to several dealers, compare their inventories and prices and sometimes make return calls and emails -- but I assure you that cars are out there and that there are honest and reputable Acura dealers who refuse to charge more than MSRP or to play games with serious customers who are ready to buy.
I found a great dealership in LA -- Acura 101 West (talk to Sam Motamedi, Internet Manager) -- and I have also found several dealerships in the South -- North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida -- who have cars coming or current inventory and are ready and willing to sell to out of state customers at sticker.
Yes, there are dealers who want to charge as much as $1,000 - 3,000 over MSRP to give you what you want and some dealers who claim that Acura won't let them sell "out of region" to Internet or telephone customers. Hogwash, I say.
Like me, if you really want this car and are willing to roll up your sleeves and do the necessary homework, you WILL find what you're looking for at no more than sticker price.
Good hunting everyone!!
Denis
I live in Austin, Texas--it appears the VIN etch is required at $295.00--I'll ask about whether or not it's optional, but I doubt it. It's pre-printed on the buyers order, along with the documentary fee. The vehicle inventory tax amounts to $71.20 (not sure what that is).
My next step is to contact Sam Motamedi in California, out of curiosity--just to see how things fare out West. I'm not going to run ragged looking for the best deal out there--I'm way too busy. I realize I may be paying a premium, but I've worked extra hard this year--and this is my reward
I'm not sure how long it'll take me to install the side steps (anyone want to share their experiences here?) but I'm game--it may take me a month to find the time to install it, but I've got
a lifetime to enjoy my MDX!
Putting in the rear mudguards can be a bit of a pain if you don't remove the rear wheels. Two of the screws can be fastened fairly easily, but the third requires an "L" screwdriver or something that works with minimal clearance because the tire gets in the way. Some folks just leave it off, which only works if you don't plan to drive in deep snow.
The cargo net mounts in more than one position so it can be a bit confusing but there are various links that show different installation patterns so that becomes easy.
The body side moldings have been installed by many owners without much trouble. Basically prep the area with some alcohol, tape on the templates, and stick. Better done with two people. There are various Internet links to installation advice.
The side steps are tedious because they use lots and lots and lots of bolts (72, I think). It goes much easier if you raise the vehicle.
The alternative to the Acura OEM sidesteps are the Maniks. Some people prefer the look of the former, some prefer the latter (which are cheaper). The latter has had some complaints about a cheaper footpad that would crack around the screw holes but Manik has been pretty responsive and have shipped those customers redesigned footpads.
As far as dealerships go, it may be a matter of calling around. I think that it should not be as difficult to find an MDX at straight MSRP in Texas than, say, the Pacific Northwest, where (last I heard) every dealership is charging above MSRP (we tend to get vehicle discounts last; it was that way with the RX300 and ML320; watching others around the country get great deals above invoice while dealerships here were still negotiating at or just below MSRP).
When people say they are being quoted prices ABOVE MSRP--does that mean their base price is inflated? or does the dealer add on options they can't refuse (like the VIN etch)?
The figure that is missing from all of these discussions is dealer invoice--I haven't seen that one tossed around...probably don't want to know? Anyway, I would be curious what that figure is.
William is right about the accessories. FWIW the Manik steps are easier to install b/c they have fewer bolts. I find the Maniks look more "beefy" while the OEM Acura steps are more "understated".
I installed the steps myself -- it did take about 90 minutes. I can't remember the # of bolts but there were a TON of them. However, most are to assemble the brackets BEFORE attaching to the bottom of the car w/a dozen or so as I recall. I just sat in front of the TV when I did those
I didn't jack up the car to install them; there was ample clearance. If you're REALLY not inclined to install them yourself, you'd probably still save ~$300 (on steps alone) by buying online and paying your dealer's hourly rate for installation. One other alternative is to tell your salesman that you're gonna do that and ask him to match price.
Steve
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Not sure whether anyone has addressed buying the MDX in SF Bay area but any comments would be appreciated. We presently have a Suburu Outback which we love. But, we moved to the east bay and will need a second car by late spring. We frankly don't want a fancy car or even really like SUVs but are interested in the 3rd row, decent safety record and decent gas milage. All my research has lead to the MDX and, possibly the Explorer, Envoy or Tahoe. We, however, cannot stomach the rollover/tire issue whether Ford fixed it or not and the Envoy and the Tahoe are about the same price as the much nicer MDX. (That smug look on the GMC dealer's face went away when I mentioned that we were looking at the MDX. MT's "Truck of the Year"????) When we are ready to buy, we think we will just get the base w/o navigation. (However, rumblings about an MDX based Honda Passport are very interesting. Anyone have an ETA or more info?)
Anyway, we looked the past two weeks and frankly have had a mixed experience. Oakland Acura did not have any MDXs two or so weeks ago but were willing to take a $500 deposit to "gaurantee" one. Acura of Concord had a tricked out $45k touring model and quoted a 3 month wait. This weekend, Oakland Acura had two in stock (a mohongony which the sales guy did not have time to show and a green on the floor which was marked up $2k over MSRP and loaded with overpriced dealer options). They, though, had four or five coming in December.
I think we are going to wait until the Spring, look here as well as in Central and Southern Cal (that LA dealer reference sounds great) and try to hold out for slightly below MSRP. Part of our thinking is that the winter rush is kicking in and we are better served by being patient. Am I being unrealistic?