By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
You obviously know what you want and it is not a mini SUV. We know what we are interested in and it happens to be a mini SUV.
One of these things just doesn't belong ... hmmm, wonder what that is. Why don't you go find a "real truck" message board to chat in and then you "looking at cars" won't be a problem for any of us !?!?!?!?!
Steve: diapers? You blew my cover, man!
kayaker: yes, I've used them, but they were slow. I got slightly better prices and quicker service by e-mailed parts@libertysubaru.com.
Let's keep the tone friendly, folks. It makes for a far more interesting read.
-juice
-mike
Back on topic, the Santa Fe does a great job at grabbin' groceries - including diapers ;-) I second Juice on the call for civility here - I kinda like reading about some of the real differences between vehicles, and not just name calling. On that note, does anyone here own a CVT Vue? Are they out yet, or still having problems? I'd like to hear from anyone who bought / drove one, since it's a new feature for the class.
-Jason
Unfortunately I had to take in into the shop twice because of the battery dying. It turned out that my aftermarket Blaupunkt in-dash CD changer (which I had professionally installed) had an exposed connection which was shorting out. So I can't blame Hyundai for that. The service was good and they replaced the battery for free.
My second choice was the Liberty but I've had problems with Jeeps. I was leasing a Cherokee before I got the Santa Fe and at 37K miles (just out of warranty) the engine developed a problem. I took it to a garage and the mechanic recommended I stop driving it and turn it in before it stopped running. I still had some mileage left but decided to turn it in early and pay the balance. They never asked if it ran okay and I didn't offer the information. It's been 6 months with no word from them so I guess I got away with it.
Some of y'all keep forgetting that Santa Fe was designed in California not Korea. IMO the curviness of the Santa Fe design gives it, a more aerodynamic design.
I crack up at Jeep because they push the Liberty as this tuff, offroad vehicle, yet stats show over 90% of people do not offroad.. I believe Toytoa/Honda/Ford/Hyundia made the right choice by going with a car based mini-suv. I believe the "image" thing comes from those who drive the Liberties and Xterra's to have the macho, grunt I can offroad sterotype, yet they drive them to and from work everyday.. go figure..
The Santa Fe didn't even get a test becuase my wife hated the looks. I'm not crazy about them either regardless of where it was designed.
I am just looking at vehicles at this point, but am really thinking of a Liberty. Not 'cause it would look cool to others, but that it rides high up, (over my current Tercel) and that I would just feel safer in case I were caught in a James Bond/McGyver situation. You know, with flooded streets, blizzards etc. I really only plan to go to the store with it occasionally, and visit my Dad about 50 mi down the road.
Offroad- What, are you crazy? It might get scratched. I may even get a bumper sticker that says "Yes, I only go to the store in this."
To me, that feeling of solidity and capability is what I would be buying. And that's worth it to me. Still, I'm just in the research stage, and I've been finding an unsettling number of posts about crappy support from the Jeep People (Diamler-Chrysler?), and some pulling-to-the-right problems and a few other minor things like tipping over and/or exploding where the dealer ends up just shrugging and saying "Hey, tough luck".
Hmph. More research is needed.
-Russell
We could care less about image. In fact we test drove several minivans, including the Sedona and MPV. Heck, I wouldn't have minded one at all.
Why did we pass? Some issues:
* front wheel drive: which meant torque steer, not very fun to drive, no AWD on the MPV or Odyssey, our two top choices
* too much mass: all seemed heavy, even the relatively light MPV
* poor visibility: it may even be the sheer size of some of these, but my Forester is far easier to maneuver, and visiblity is a whole lot better
I think most sport/cutes address these, at least having AWD and less mass/bulk to haul around. They are just more fun to drive.
-juice
I remember reading an article about the performance of the MDX AWD in the snow.
It was the clear winner, beating all comers, even the Jeep GC (with its real 4wd system).
Get what you want. Listen to Scape2. Test drive everything you're interested in 3 times, different dealers. Read the reviews, and don't listen to other users blowing their comments about ugly suv's, or this one can't do that attitudes. Good luck.
I own a 4x4 truck and also have been offroading for many years now. Believe me, you don't want to take a car based SUV into MOAB or up lions back, or through the Rubicon. YOu will absolutely tweak the frame/drivetrain and you would not make it.
Snow/ice - Although I have had my Escape in snow/ice conditions I still feel my truck handled them better, just felt more stable/solid.
I have however had the Escape on logging roads/access roads and its done just fine too!
I see another topic coming along Truck based SUV's vs car based SUv's.. anyone interested?
It really depends on your personal use..
They aren't as car like as the CRV and Rav4, which I don't like due to my personal preference for trucks (and seeing too many stuck CRVs up here in the winter). They are better for commuting than more truck based SUVs. But I stand by my original statement - they really are more car based than truck based. That was not meant to be a negative.
And juice has just about convinced me that the Forester is the way I should go. I have 6 more months to try to convince my husband of this before we will be in a position to buy anything, so I avidly read this board.
I would also be interested if anyone has any experience with the CVT Vue. That could solve my tranny concerns without going to a manual.
Liberty....doesn't belong here. It handles like a truck. Its a truck. Period. Its the first mini-SUV I test drove. Never drove it again. Handling was poor and the ride was tippy. My next test drive was the Escape and the difference in handling was amazing (on the positive side). It was that test drive of the Escape that convinced me to go the "car based" SUV route. The VUE and the CRV should be included here as I mentioned earlier.
VUE vs. Santa Fe looks. Neither is really ugly. But overall, I think the SF is better looking. And no problem loading the "curvy" cargo area! The SF did wonderfully on our vacation (28 MPG on the way down!). I think Saturn will get disappointing sales results on the VUE. First, its lateness to the market. Second, its cheap interior and mini-van like handling. I am seeing more and more SFs on the road in my area and saw a surprising number down at the beach (even another Pine Green one!).
Didn't get to ride on the beach with the SF since I didn't want to pay $100 for the privilege! I understand why they make it so hard to get the permit, though!
-Jason
No offense but the trannies found in the car-based SUVs with AWD are considered pretty weak comparted to say truck/SUV based ones. I'd go for the Liberty for power/tranny/rough and tumbleness.
-mike
-mike
I wouldn't tow anything more with the Escape than you would a normal passenger car.. It's a light vehicle, and short wheelbase. Watch carefully how much weight you tow and be careful.
-mike
One of the reasons I keep coming back to the Forester is because they offer a manual tranny with all kinds of other options, like heated seats, etc. That's not something that the others offer - the Escape/Tribute offer a manual only with the 4 cylinder, and they always seem to be too basic for what I want. I already know what it is like to spend 3 hours a day, every day, in an uncomfortable vehicle - that describes my 2000 xtra cab 2WD Tacoma (74,000 miles on it in 22 months). The only good thing about it is the 5 speed, 4 cylinder combination (good gas mileage and adequate/good power).
And the fact that the Liberty seems to have the best auto tranny is why I still consider it. While I would like to get an auto tranny, it isn't the biggest thing on my list. Disadvantage is the gas mileage, and that is significant.
-mike
Subaru does equip their models comprehensively. The "base" model has AWD and ABS, for instance, and loaded Premium models have more gadgets than any other competitor, particularly when you narrow it down to 5 speeds only.
And given as much time and distance you cover in your vehicle, those just might make ownership that much better. Heated seats, for instance, can be a back saver, and not just when it's cold.
-juice
-Jason
mnt, sounds like your minds already made up...
Sounds like the 5spd Forester fits your needs for MPG and road conditions.. Good luck!
The other thing is that while I got excited about the 2002 Forester we test drove, my other half was only luke-warm, especially since I really want those heated seats, which means the XS. He's been luke-warm about everything we've looked at - I think he's gun-shy, since he was the one that chose the Tacoma. When we finally realized that there was no way we could buy something until we were down to one car payment he quit looking at cars altogether, so I haven't really looked at the 2003 Forester. The Wrangler was my choice, and he used to give me all kinds of grief about it at first. Now he even talks about just getting another one to go with our current one (while I would love to have a new Wrangler, it really isn't practical). So now I'm (im)patiently waiting and reading so I'll be a better buyer when the time comes.
It actually ended up being the second cheapest of similarly-equipped mini-utes to own over a 5 year period:
These prices were for the Northern California Area. I'm sure that they may come out differently in other parts of the country once you calculate gas costs, taxes and licensing...
Sorry for just jumping into this forum without any warning... However, some of you may remember me as jmlagasca (it's been more than a year since I last posted, i think). I still have my 2001 Mazda Tribute ES 4wd, now with 26k miles and (other than some cosmetic dings) no mechanical problems (i.e. stalling, gas smells...) for more than 18 months! Should I keep knocking on wood?
jmlagasca "Mazda Tribute/ Ford Escape problems" Mar 21, 2002 10:00pm
Did you lose your password or something?
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I'll offer an example. Would you rather drive a vehicle that you love, and are thrilled with, and pay a little more? I certainly would.
-juice
They should depreciate the same, have same repair costs etc.
Original cost is within $1,000
what gives?
One of the things that Edmunds factors into their figure is resale prices. If I'm not going to sell at 5 years it won't be something I'm going to figure in (though it would be an appropriate figure for a business computing depreciation and expenses). If you have a high mileage vehicle the resale is going to be less, but not necessarily at the same rate as another vehicle, so that will throw it off also.
As far as the Escape and Tribute being different - that doesn't surprise me at all. They don't cost the same and they won't depreciate the same. An example will probably be the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe. They are the same car but in 5 years the Toyota will be worth more because it is a Toyota.
Regarding TCO, I checked again and Edmunds gave me different prices. Overall, the relationship between the vehicles' TCO prices remain the same.
The guy who figures out the TCO stuff has been known to hang out in the New Edmunds.com Tool: TCO discussion.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The CR-V does particularly well, but I'm not sure they factor that most owners pay MSRP. So resale is great, yes, but they paid more to begin with.
Conversely, the Santa Fe, for instance, may not have good resale as a % of the MSRP. But most owners don't pay MSRP. If you get $3000 off the MSRP, that's $3000 less depreciation you experienced.
-juice
Oh, and my neighbor just bought a new Liberty. She's wanted one ever since she had a rental for a week while her Honda was in the shop. I told her I thought it was cute, and she seemed pleased ;-)
-Jason
So although they seem to have great resale, there was still some depreciation, at least.
To me, the bottom line is that if you enjoy your SF, it was the right choice.
-juice