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Porsche 911 vs. Corvette Z06
I am interested in any feedback on this comparo because I am in the market for one of these 2 icons and appreciate any direction from owners or anyone in the know regarding the +/- of each.
Thanks and Regards,
OW
Thanks and Regards,
OW
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To answer your question: scalpel vs. sledgehammer. Both of these "icons" will thrill you with performance, but they go about it very differently. Chevy is all about raw quantity - 7 liters, 3 foot wide tires, enough torque to tow a train car. Porsche is all about refined quality - the 911S coupe has been tested at 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, downright amazing performance out of 3.8 liters, 355 hp and 295 ft lbs of torque. Heck, some of the ELLPS almost match that power on paper, but come nowhere near that performance.
I have a high school buddy who has a Z06. He's always been into the American muscle car thing. He is absolutely as happy as a pig in mud. And the tire smoking perforamance of his car is extraordinary. But its night and day from the refinement of a 911.
You better spend a fair amount of time test driving both of these and taking a personality test before buying one.
I always liked the Vette and thought the C6 ititeration as a huge improvement. On the other hand, I have been interested (since you have been describing your drives in the 911) in what Porsche offers as well. The 911T sounds like an ultimate instrument to experience nirvana.
I feel you are right in your comparo and it really depends on the ultimate experience as the goal I will be considering. Two different animals suggest different conclusions.
I, too, have a pineing for the U.S. Muscle of Old and the Z epitomizes this, IMO. I did like the 300 SRT8 I test drove and the surprising effect of that package. Old muscle, yes, but no true sports car.
I will heed your advice and submit to the personality test both before and during the testing sequence!
Pahrump there is a Corvette driving school and here in the
Bay Area the Skip Barber driving school has 911s in the
inventory of rides. Test drives are fun but not really
going to let you experience the performance of either so
going to a school, there are many across the country, might
be your ticket and you would come out a better driver for
that kind of performance anyway. The number of folks that
have stuffed Z06s is growing weekly, not sure about 911s.
Good Luck,
Randy
That's a great idea. I heard of some bad endings with Viper owners as well. I will check to see closet to my central NJ location.
Regards,
OW
http://www.racingadventures.com/ This looks like they do
Vettes pretty close to you at Summit Point. There is
another outfit out of Roebling raceway in GA but I don't
know either directly. From the sites it looks like they
are still using the C5 Z06 which to me is not surprising,
I don't know of any that are using the C6 Z06 other than
Spring Mountain Raceway in Pahrump, NV. Then again close
is relative and Las Vegas is usually a good place to fly
into compared to some.
Randy
Thanks. This looks good. c5 is good enough to understand what the corvette will provide. The content looks good so I can learn a lot as well as experience with the car. I will check out GA.
Regards,
OW
case of watch out what you wish for. I got my Vette in my
mid 50's and after a couple years found driving schools, 3
years later I now do some instruction on track and as with
many others am hooked
Enjoy!
Randy
Regards,
OW
With all that german engineering and racing heritage, it makes no sense to me that they don't put something on the road that will compete with the Corvette.
The latest article that triggered this thought was the Lightning Lap comparison at VIR in the latest Car and Driver.
What say ye, Porsche-philes?
0-60: 4.2 vs. 4.4 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.6 each
60-0 Braking: 106 vs. 113 feet
100-0 braking: 299 vs. 321 feet
600 ft slalom: 70.1 vs. 68.9 mph
200 ft skidpad: 0.97 vs. 0.96 g's
When you look at the above figures, they are damn near identical. But what isn't are the subjective qualities of one vs. the other.
Some of Motor Trends quotes pretty much tell the story as far as my preferences go:
"Within the first few miles, you'll notice the Corvette simply can't match the delicacy and fluency of the Porsche's controls. The 911's gerashift operates with the oily precision of a rifle-bolt, the pedels are perfectly placed, and you can steer it with your fingertips. By comparson, the Corvette is... (I won't incite you, but the M/T comments were not very flattering)"
There is no doubt that the Corvette is a fine car and offers a hell of a lot of brutish bang for not a lot of bucks. And if that's all you are looking for, look no further. But not everybody employs the sledgehammer approach to driving and there is omething to be said for the precise feel of a 911. Or a $32k Honda S2000 for that matter.
A golfing buddy of mine has bought/built 4 new homes in the last 15 years. Each and every one bigger than the last. First thing out of his mouth when we asked him about his most recent move: "it's 7,200 square feet!". Most of us are too polite to point out that it has all of the architectural quality of a megabox-McMansion. But for him, it's all about quantity - and something like Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater is beyond his comprehension.
Again, don't take my comments the wrong way. The Corvette is a heck of a value in many ways. Just not for me. I haven't seen the comparison you refer to, but I suspect it would take professional drivers on a closed track to test 80% of the performance capability of a 911 GT3 or Turbo. But I see, touch and hear the quality of my 911S every time I fire it up. I'm not prepared to give that up, no matter how much faster a Chevy or Ford might happen to be.
What "roads" do you drive on? I had to take my 911 Turbo to a private runway just to begin to test its acceleration. Got it up to 135-140 in 3/8 mile and it was still pushing me back in my seat. I've taken two performance driving courses from BMW and Porsche, and there are no "roads" I've found where I can safely test 50% of my car's capability. So, as far as I'm concerned, Porsche has already put more car on the road than anyone, including Schumacher, could ever expect to use without getting a 20 year jail sentence.
Perhaps the question you should be asking is, if Chevy is so accomplished when it comes to "speed", why can't they put something on a real race track that competes with Porsche or Ferrari in Formula One. I know they are the king of the redneck beer-gut GM sponsored (foreign car prohibited) Nascar series. But going counterclockwise around a banked oval track isn't exactly what any sober person with a triple digit IQ would consider the pinnacle of driving or racing. That's about as brainless as world championship wrestling. Rather, how about a Formula One road course like Monaco, where you actually have to turn the wheel both ways and exhibit some driving skills that don't involve ramming your opponents?
Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see an American manufacturer step up to the level of Porsche and Ferrari. But, so long as they cater to the Nascar and muscle car types, they will never come close.
Challenge and Rolex GT the Corvette privateers of the world
are doing nicely against the factory backed Porsches with
professional drivers. And that is with performance adjustments
to downgrade the Corvette whenever it gets past some of the
factory cars. Last year in SWC the Porsche's ran with out
of spec brakes for half the season and the rule body decided
after the fact to allow them, no penalty. Heck in Rolex,
SCCA doesn't even want the private financed Vettes to run
with the Factory backed Pontiacs.
Then again there is FIA racing in Europe and the C6's are
doing well, again not factory backed. There is talk of C6's
running in GT 2 in ALMS next year, we can only hope.
On a more personal scale, I'm glad you have put your car on
track. The Porsche, while much harder to get to the limits
than a Vette, is a great car on track. Since you like the
R&T article, also try the current Car and Driver comparison
of similar priced track cars. Both the C6 coupe and Z06
come out best in their categories, and it seems there is a
question or two about the 'value' in the Porsches.
Randy
Hope to see you on track some day, I'll wave as I pass ...
The VIR test mixes up drivers and cars and comes up with what I believe is a very meaningful result. This as opposed to simply an acceleration run or some bogus lane change maneuver.
So the from the standpoint of the total package (power, handling, grip) , the base model Corvette beats both the GT3 and the turbo (not to mention what the Z06 does).
I have some ideas as to what is going on here but wanted to hear some other peoples take on this.
NASCAR can turn even a road race into something interesting (Watkins Glen, Sonoma)
But getting back to the original question, what's up with the VIR results?
But, I think the evidence is there that suggests the Porsche falls down in handling through the corners and perhaps a power curve that is not broad enough.
If you look at the top speeds, the Porsche has that covered, as it should based on max HP numbers. So the Corvettes had to really make up some time in the turns. It makes me wonder if the rear engine layout is at the root of this?
Best Nurburgring Track Times
7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT
7.39 - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo
7:42 - 160.519 km/h – Ford GT
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06
7:59 - 154.822 km/h - Corvette C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill
You don't think Car and Driver gets more advertising dollars from GM/Chevy than Porsche, now do you?? :confuse:
In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.
And frankly, that says just as much or more than their particlar weekend track times. Especially when you consider that their results, as habitat's post indicates, are inconsistent with Nurburgring results and many other road tests and competitive rack results.
For what it's worth, my brother and a few of his racing school friends have been approached several times by Car and Driver and the other auto magazines to participate in such "competitive" road tests, including at VIR. Only in rare cases has he done so, because they generally reject his condition that they allot adequate time for ample practice laps with each car and that they publish the full results of his best times with each. So, what do they do instead: take a mix of drivers with widely varying skills and limited experience with each car and put everyone together for a wild weekend at the track.
I'm not trying to discredit Car and Driver in particular. Most of the other monthly magazines do the same thing. But I would suggest that if you are hanging your hat on C&D track results to tell you which is the better sports car, your hat is on the ground, getting muddy. Take some professional driving courses yourself drive each/every option and make your own decision. That's waht I did, and I don't have any regrets.
In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.
And frankly, that says just as much or more than ... "
Problem is that for the rest of us $ do make a difference
when it comes to satisfaction. With the base Corvette being
advertised on radio here in the SF Bay Area at $40k this AM,
I could add Z51 and still come out less than $42k. What in
the 911 world competes, that isn't a decade or more old?
Sure I know a guy who got a write up in Classic Motorsports
with his 911 '72 RS Clone that is lots faster than my stock
engine C5 coupe but I enjoy the driving, not the work to
keep a heavily modded P Car on track. Mag articles are all
about fantasy, and for most the 911, especially with turbos
is just that, a fantasy. For those that make the leap to
the $70k range and get a Z06 instead of the base 911, they
seem to have a performance deal too. That is of course if
you want the performance and not just 'satisfaction'.
Randy
Is your 911 missing a cylinder? The Chrysler is competitive with my unmodified 2003 M5, but certainly not with the 911S's that I have driven.
Porsche website
Non S Cab: 5.0sec
S Cab: 4.7sec
Car and Driver/ Road & Track
300C SRT8: 4.7sec
C&D/R&T/Motor Trend: 3.9 to 4.3 sec; average 4.1-4.2.
Assuming a similar level of conservatism in Porsche's non S Cab figures, you should still be at or ahead of the Chrysler. But, as you implied, there is a lot more to the 911 ownership experience than drag racing against a GM or Chrysler muscle car.
I will take your advice regarding the test drives...I think a test drive will be easier at both marquees now that credit has tightened and sales are down for big ticket toys and Mc Mansions.
BTW, I wanted a Vette since I was 10 and I'm glad I waited! In terms of sheer appearance, the C6 Vette does it for me in the looks department.
The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see...
Regards,
OW
"The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see... "
I think Porsche's built quality is as good (if not better) than BMW or other German autos. Our R already went to the shop 3 times for electronics issue since we got it last December. We also have some minor issues with the 2001 330CI we used to have.