Pickups Towing Questions

mtlhd3967mtlhd3967 Member Posts: 1
in General
I have a T100 and recently bought a boat while my truck does ok towing on flat road it struggles on inclines is ther anything I can do to make it better without breaking the bank
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  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    This discussion is for the people who need to drag small countries behind their trucks :)

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • dee18dee18 Member Posts: 2
    Have been looking at Dodge 3500 4.1 rear wheel ratio, dual wheels, super crew cab, or Ford 350 with tow boss pkg. (4.3 rear wheel ratio), also crew cab. Need to have automatic in either. We have been told the Dodge would be able to handle 18,800 lbs, but the towing information on this vehicle do not support that information (indicates 15,500lbs). The Ford 350 is rated for that 18,000. Want to be sure the vehicle we buy will safely tow the toy hauler.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    Dodge is a nice looking truck, but in my opinion the Ford has the better automatic transmission and it doesn't need any supplemental cooling. Have also heard good things about the Tow Boss package.
  • dee18dee18 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for responding.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Well, as I look at the manufacturers spec sheet, I can only see a maximum 17,700 pound towing rating for the RAM 3500 (2006) with a Gross Combined Weight Rating of 23,000 lb.

    As to transmissions, the 5R110W in the big Fords are most certainly heavy enough, but the 545RFE used in the Dodge is more than adequate for the weight rating. In fact, this is the very same transmission used in the new RAM chassis cab with GCWR at 26,000. And the 545RFE has no equal for reliability. In fact, no aftermarket supplier makes a kit for this transmission so few of them develop a problem.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    One clarification...

    The Ram 3500 uses the 545RFE only with the Hemi V8. The 2007 Ram 3500 Chassis Cab uses the Aisin AS68RC 6-speed automatic with the new 6.7 liter Cummins, and after January, the 07 pickups with the 6.7L Cummins will use the 68RE 6-speed automatic (which will be based on the 545RFE).

    Those maximum GCWRs mentioned are with the Cummins... the Hemi can not tow that much - GCWR with the Hemi is 17,000.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Yes, and the RAM chassis cab with the 5.7 Hemi will use the 545RFE.

    I do see that the way the February pre-release reads it is not clear that the 23,000 GCVW rating is with the Hemi or the Cummins, but the newer publically issued sheet does state 17,000 for either Hemi.

    Thanks for the clarification and correction.

    My point is the 545RFE has a record of superior reliability in all of the Dodge applications. A couple of years ago an ATRA newsletter commented that the 545RFE was the benchmark for durability and reliability. The 6R110W is a very robust design and has been a good transmission, but any advantage it may have over the 545RFE is marginal in my opinion. Failures of the Torque Converter Clutch (which causes that pie-shaped one-piece pump to clog and chew its self up) mar an otherwise excellent transmission.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • pparamorepparamore Member Posts: 3
    I presently own a 2001 Dodge3500 dually with the 5.9 Cummins and an auto tranny. I also have the 3.55 gears. I am planning on buying a 37ft 5th wheel that weighs 11650 empty and grosses at 13,975. I am completely new to this towing thing and someone says I don't have enough truck. How can this be? I see one ton duallys towing every day. Any help would be appreciated..
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Your drawbacks are the axle ratio and the transmission. The Cummins had a lower rating for automatic-equipped trucks until mid-2003. And it is always rated lower with the taller (lower numericcally) axle. I had a 96 3500 dually with the Cummins/automatic/3.54 and it could not legally tow more than 10K. My 05 3500 dually Cummins/automatic/3.73 can tow 13,500... had I gone with the 4.10, I could tow 15,500.

    Your truck may indeed be capable of it, but if you go into a state that requires you to hit the scales, you could be in trouble.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • pparamorepparamore Member Posts: 3
    I noticed in the handbook (Finally) that with a 4:10 rear end I could tow up to 12,050. I was also told that if I use the turbo boost equipment by Edge that I would have no trouble hauling the 14k around. The truck also has an additional leaf spring on each rear axle. Also, my brother in law and sister have a fith wheel and have travelled all 48 lower states and have never had to use a weigh station as they are not concerned with recreational vehicles. I am more concerned about being safe than anything. Do you think changing out the rear end would be a wise move????? If this is feasible how would one go about getting the official figures changed.......
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    You can't get the "official figures" changed, even if you did all the mods. You vehicle is defined by it's VIN #, and the label on the inside of the door frame. That's what the law goes by if you ever had an accident while towing.
  • mariocumminsmariocummins Member Posts: 1
    i drive a 06 dodge 3500 whith the six speed transmission and with a cummins. i haul horses for a living and i have a 38 foot 12 horse trailer. the trailer on its own wheighs 10k. loaded around 19k to 23k. and i do just fine with that truck. but i do recommend hydroelectric brakes for your trailer.
  • needtoknow2needtoknow2 Member Posts: 1
    how is the cargo space on the 06 serria :confuse: ;)
  • stannstann Member Posts: 9
    I am in the process of installing a 5th wheel hitch through the bed and into the frame of the subject vehicle. I have heard that there is a service bulletin advising dealers that the 'hydroformed' frame of this vehicle CANNOT BE DRILLED, and that a special NO DRILL mounting kit for any 5th wheel hitch is required. I have been unable to obtain any information from my dealer.
    Does anyone have any information on this subject, please?
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Check the Dodge Body Builder's Guide at http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/index.html

    From all I have heard, it is accurate that the hydroformed frame cannot be drilled.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    I'm not sure I see why. If you look at the frame on a 2500 or 3500 there already are factory installed holes in some places. Perhaps holes are permissable in strategic places. I don't know.

    The frame on RAM pickups gets its strength from the fully boxed design, and hence the wall thickness is thinner and lighter. I would think that this would lend itself to drilling more so than the C-channel design.

    On C-channel frames the prohibition is no drilling on flanges (ever!). Drilled holes must be a certain distance from the top and bottom flanges, as well as a certain distance from other holes, drilled or pre-existing.

    I went to the Dodge site and couldn't find any comments regarding drilling.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    The various comments I've read about this have to do with fifth-wheel installations more than anything else. Apparently, the location of fifths was in such a place that drilling though the bed and frame at that spot compromised some integrity.

    Not surprisingly, the new 3500 Cab/Chassis is a traditional flat C-channel frame.
  • nini87nini87 Member Posts: 2
    i am looking to buy a used 3500 dually to pull my horse trailer 10,000lbs empty 20,000gcwr what year would you recomend?
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Well, although the RAM has been an exceptionally solid truck, I think the newer the better. The 2002-03s had some electrical problems, mostly with poor electrical connections, but some Central Timer Module and Instrument Cluster Assembly failures.

    From 2004 on even electrical problems seems to have diminshed considerably.

    With that kind of weight you anticipate, I think you're confined to looking at a diesel version. And as most people know, folks really love their Cummins engines.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • fordboy4x4fordboy4x4 Member Posts: 4
    Has anyone here installed aftermarket gauges, the pod type with a pyro, trans, rear end, boost on a F250 W/ a 7.3? I would like to know what is going on under the hood while towing a heavy load. I dont really want to do a bunch of drilling into parts to install sensors and the like.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Make sure your coolant,oil,and transmission fluid are fresh and topped up so you don't damage the truck you have. Run in a lower gear and look for an aluminum bass fishing rig. :)
  • davethecarnutdavethecarnut Member Posts: 248
    At 20000lbs, you're better off with a used F-450 or Chevy 4500 or 5500. The Ford is more of a "regular" dually sized truck. The Chevy is more of that "macho" medium duty bobtail truck ;)
  • johnboy8johnboy8 Member Posts: 2
    With all of the experienced people on this site I'm hoping you can help me select a new truck. I need a solid truck that will pull 4500lbs upon occasion. I would like it to get good gas mileage when I'm not towing with the prices being so high. What kinds of trucks would you guys/gals suggest.

    JohnBoy
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    A V8 equiped Dodge Dakota.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • davethecarnutdavethecarnut Member Posts: 248
    Dusty is right. But if gas mileage is a concern, not the hemi but the 4.7 V8. Hey Dusty, are you really Dr. Z in disguise? This is quite the Mopar Site. Just kidding. Johnboy, the small GM V8's in regular cab shortbed trucks could work too.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Nope. I'm not Dr.Z. In fact, I think Dr. Z deserves a swift kick in the pants as he departs taking his ignorant and arrogant Daimler-Benz crew with him!

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • cptchetcocptchetco Member Posts: 32
    In my experience, 4500# towing capacity is no problem for any of the domestic pickups, including Dakota and Ranger, as long as you have the towing package. We had problems with the S-10 trannys back in 1999 when used for towing.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Towing rule generally is you want to use no more than 75-85% of the rated towing capacity of the tow vehicle to safely tow your trailer. In addition be very careful on 2 other items:

    Trailer Brakes are usually required on any trailer over 1500-2000lbs by the tow vehicle manufacture

    Weight Carrying (standard hitch/tounge) Rating v. Weight Distributing (external bars that help distribute the weight) Rating often times folks hear "10,000lb towing" but don't realize that there is the little * which denotes "when properly equipped" and this usually means a weight distributing hitch.

    -mike
  • thenatureboythenatureboy Member Posts: 3
    Hello, I got a 99 f-350 dually with the 7.3l diesel engine, I was wondering if anyone knew the total towing capacity of this vehicle - I need to tow a 15,000lb loaded 32ft trailer which I believe it can handle, but would like to know the maximum poundage this truck can handle.

    Thanks
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is the trailer a 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer? I'm assuming it is if it weighs 15k lbs.

    -mike
  • thenatureboythenatureboy Member Posts: 3
    yep you got it - a gooseneck.
  • jklingel8jklingel8 Member Posts: 10
    I hope you have turbo. My '93 F350, SRW, 7.3 liter non-turbo has a lot of trouble hauling 8,000 lbs. VERY slow on any hills, and that E04 transmission is marginal for even hauling a 20' boat, I am finding. (See posts about the overdrive-off light blinking on thedieselstop.com forum.)
  • thenatureboythenatureboy Member Posts: 3
    Yep, got the turbo... anyone else have any other info?
  • agnes_aagnes_a Member Posts: 3
    Hi guys! When I drive my truck with the trailer attached to it, I´d like to better control the position trailer and make sure it´s safe back there. Is there any way I can be warned about my trailer while driving my truck?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What do you mean "warned"? Also if you can give us some details on your tow vehicle and trailer we can definitely give you some advice on towing with it.

    -mike
  • gdog6gdog6 Member Posts: 17
  • gdog6gdog6 Member Posts: 17
    The other day I was looking at fords towing guide
    and saw the 18000lbs of towing on the f-350. But when looking at the specs it had a 4.30 axle ratio. thats a lot!!!
    is that how they pull off those large towing numbers? If so dodge and gm could tow 18000

    Oh! and the f-450 had a 4.70
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    It sounds like a big number but you have to consider the diameter of the tire, of course. In general, yes, thats been how some manufacturers get higher numbers for towing. Keep in mind, too, that there's more to the towing capacity than power to the wheels. You have to be able to stop that weight and you need a heavier frame to handle the longitudal stress.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • jklingel8jklingel8 Member Posts: 10
    I'm just wondering. My old diesel is non-turbo, and when I strain it the "after-burner" kicks in and it r's up several hundred rpm, like a gas rig does. My new '07 turbo Duramax doesn't do this; it just hauls stuff quite well so far, and never seems to r up much. Is this normal for a turbo, or is that Allison tranny just shifting its little guts out to keep the engine in a good torque range? thanks. j
  • davethecarnutdavethecarnut Member Posts: 248
    :) No, that's just what 350 hp and over 600 ft/lb torque can do. Your Duramax makes 3 times the hp and double the torque of your old engine. And that Allison is far superior to your old tranny. Enjoy it!!
  • jklingel8jklingel8 Member Posts: 10
    Roger that. So far, so good. I am just amazed that it hardly burped when I hauled my little loader (8,000 lbs) up a very long, steep hill the other day. It will be interesting to see what it does w/ a 2500 lb camper and a ton of boat behind it. No doubt it will handle Thompson Pass, but I wonder just how well. Yes, my old engine had about 400 ft-lbs, and the Duramax has 650; quite and improvement. And the Allison tranny is superior to my Ford E04? It could hardly be worse! That E04 is one sad tranny; I got a lot of info about it on the Dieselstop forum recently, and it was not one of Ford's best. Thanks for the reply. john
  • lzrdking98lzrdking98 Member Posts: 40
    I own a 2006 f250 long bed with the 3:75 rear end. My question is, is it safe to ever pull the trailer while in overdrive. Currently I am using overdrive on flat highways with no hills. When I hit the hills I go down into the 3rd gear selection. I s this the way to go?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is it a 5 speed or 4 speed auto?

    Basically the rule of thumb is that if the trans is excessively shifting then you want to drop it out of overdrive to 4 or 3 depending on how many gears the trans has in it. If it isn't shifting excessively then I'd leave it in OD.

    -mike
  • jklingel8jklingel8 Member Posts: 10
    I have no idea if the '06 tranny is tougher than the E04 in my '93 F350, but leaving mine in over-drive raises hell (overdrive light blinks, tranny shifts roughly, and I have to stop and disconnect the batteries for a while to re-set the computer). So, watch for that idiosyncracy.
  • agnes_aagnes_a Member Posts: 3
    Hi Mike! I had replied earlier, but my message never showed up. Thanks for your reply. I was talking about using some sort of acustic (?) warnsignal so that I get warned while driving
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I don't know of any warning signal devices, other than to keep a keen eye on your mirrors at all times to watch for swaying. Make wide turns and always leave enough stopping distance. I recently moved up from a 22ft boat with a tandem axle trailer weighing in at around 5000lbs up to a 9500+ lb triple axle trailer that is about 40ft long, and I just keep my speeds down to about 65mph and make really wide turns and so far so good.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm, do you have an ATF Temp light or an ATF Temp Gauge? Also you might check your manual to see why the OD light is blinking, that may be an indication that the trans is overheating. I'm not familiar with the Ford trans codes so it may not be an issue, but if it is overheating you may want to add a cooler or get it checked out.

    -mike
  • preacher6preacher6 Member Posts: 4
    I nhave the same problem. Without spending a wad I dont think theres an answer. As far as aluminum goes, my boat is aluminum. Its just that a 20' w/a 150 is too much, but my wifes Tundra does it with ease.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    OK, I make no bones about prefering the new Tundra over almost everything else in the 1/2 ton market, but what bothers me most about 1/2 ton trucks are the payload limitations.
    As such I'm considering a 3/4 ton truck from either GMC or Dodge and wanted some opinions on either based on people's experiences. I've had my own experience with 1 ton trucks and the like working for the city, but that was 15 years ago and many things have changed since then.
    In particular, I'm looking to get a crew-cab with either a standard or long bed and without a dually -- that isn't really a viable option for me.
    I was hoping to be able to get a diesel, but not sure that I can do that without having to get a dually, so that may not be an option. I like both the Ram and the Sierra, and know many people that were/are happy with their trucks so far. But it is hard to find online reviews that give a concise appraisal of the options, configurations, and reliability of the drivetrains. Any info would be welcomed! Thanks!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I believe the 2500 series all come in non-dually diesel configs. That is what I was considering if my Armada couldn't tow my 33ft Cigarette Boat, but it does in fact tow it well so I'm not upgrading at the current time.

    On a side note I measure from the tip of the out-drives to the front of my Armada... 56 feet in total.

    -mike
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