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Honda Civic Hybrid Battery Pack Questions
My 2003 HCH (purchased new in July, 2003) has a dead battery after not driving it here in RI for 6 weeks (Feb/March this year). It simply won't start without a jump. Is the battery dead for good? How long should it last? The battery model no. is 38B19L(S). Any information will be greatly appreciated.
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I am a Hybrid Dummy and considering buying a Honda (bcoz it looks better).
I wonder how long can the battery last before it needs a replacement? And are they expensive to replace?
Secondly, why do all manufacturer cannot make a more sexier Hybrid?
I think the repairs on Hybrids don't make up for the money you save on gas.
I also think that having to replace a battery pack for the vehicle every 5-8 years doesn't make up for the gas being saved. I don't know how much better it is to have the batteries in the landfills than the fumes in the air... not to mention the fuel used to make the batteries.
I think they should STOP selling the Hybrids until they can make them reliable. That's why people buy a Honda, and the Hybrids are NOT living up to the Honda reputation in my opinion.
:lemon:
I am afraid it may be time for a new battery, but with the transmission issue looming I am thinking I am going to have to throw in the towel on this car. I am discouraged, I really liked the concept and enjoyed my 40 MPG where most folks get 20-25 up and down the mtn. But we live way out in a rural area and getting back to the dealer is a big pain, and over an hour away.
My Problem is:
The assist works twice as hard as it used to (almost full bars, instead of just 4 or 5) so it drains the battery every time I accelerate. Then the battery doesn't charge while I'm driving. When the battery gets a little below half drained it realizes that it's low and charges a little bit, but only to half way. I can drive like a SUPER GRANNY and use hills, but I can only get my battery to about 3/4 full, and then if I drive normal at all again it goes back to half. When I brought my car to the dealership the battery was full. Every single time I've ever turned off my car it was full. It has also been full every single time I have ever turned my car on. It just usually charges until it's full. It seems like it's not being very efficient at all & I don't know why or what would even make it do this all of a sudden. I've had my car for 2 years and nothing like this ever happened until they rebuilt my transmission.
Has anyone else had a problem with keeping a charge in their battery pack?
:lemon:
However, I prefer the Toyota HSD transmission design over the CVT used by the HCH.
The only problem we've had was the drivers window failing to roll down and the center console literally falling apart in our hands. Mechanically the thing is great drive-wise.
Trim work...not so much.
Hmmmm....I don't know about the Civic,but I have friends who own Priuses and both are over 100K miles with 0 problems.Maybe it's a problem for Honda,not for Hybrids in general.If I could afford a Prius,I guarantee I would be buying one,but a Honda hybrid...not so sure.
I have a 2003 Honda Hybrid with 65,000 miles. The IMA light went on a few days ago and they have determined the Hybrid battery needs to be replaced. I have not experienced transmission issues yet, but happy I still have the battery covered by warranty. I am tempted to seel the car at this stage if the battery life is only 5 years old. When I bought the vehicle, I was under the understanding that the battery life would outlive the vehicle life, and finding it to be untrue. Does anyone know if the the new replacement batteries are expected to last longer?
If you have a vehicle which is out of warranty, or just want to get your hybrid working educate Honda and tell them to change this battery before you do anything else. My advice would be to get the biggest deep cycle battery you can find. Check out what happens to a low 12V battery at www.Hondalemon.com
In the interest of safety I ask that anyone whom has seen the IMA light while driving report the problem to the NHTSA. IF you get IMA failure while you turn at a light you could easily crash as the steering can become impossible to turn.
By the way, The only time I had problems is after program updates to solve service bulletin call-ins. I requested the original program that came with the car as purchased, and you can guess the looks I got for that. Give me back what I bought.
I have also noticed the quality of fuel will vary as much as 20%, even from the same vendor. Ethanol spiked fuels suck, and some octants below 87 will hit me for 5 to 10 mpg. I filled up in L.A. on my way to Seattle and was at 38 mpg, filled up at Eugene OR and immediately jumped to 55 mpg. I finished the trip to Seattle and back down to central Calif before filling again, so I know it was the gas. I'll drive at the speed limits with the air on, with comfortable conserving thoughts, and measure what the car can do.
Thoughts of a new car, most likely a Prius, but I like the Tesla Roadster!!
Wow :shades:
To make a long story short, the dealer and District service manager finally agreed to replace the battery. The car now has 85,000 miles on it. Not easy to get a warranty replacement unless there is an outright failure with service codes indicating a failed battery.
On another issue, the car has had a transmission bucking at low speed (<20mph). This is on the automatic transmission. Honda calls it jitter, and has a service bulletin. Had a new transmission put in at about 45,000 miles. Had new clutches put in a few months ago. Neither of these fixed the problem. Finally, they replaced the EGR valve, even though there were no codes. I mentioned this to them a year ago (it is all over the internet), but without codes, they did not believe the internet stuff. Well, for the first time in the last 50,000 miles, the transmission runs without the bucking.
My 2003 had a transmission problem at about 32k miles. It was out of warranty, but the dealership (Curry Honda in Atlanta) replaced the starter clutch for free - they said there was a bulletin on the problem, and the technician, who seemed knowledgeable about the hybrid (this was in 2006) came out and explained it to me.
Yesterday at 68k miles, I had the dreaded "Your IMA needs a very expensive repair" light come on, and they told me it needed a new battery. Of course, its still under warranty, but they told me it was a $5,000 part!?!? I love my car, the way it drives and the fuel economy. I knew this day was coming, but didn't expect the price to sting so much. Hopefully the next time it needs this kind of work, a less expensive aftermarket solution will be available. (Something better than going to Wal-mart and filling up the shopping cart with NiMH D cells.)
Regardless, when it's out of warranty, it can be repaired for less than $1000.
Currently, I see (at least 1000 miles after code was read at dealership) that the indicator shows it's charging a little less than fully every time I drive, and takes longer to recharge to that point, and less time to discharge when accelerating. Gas mileage declining too. Honda America won't budge on the $3000 price tag, though I was told less than half that cost when I bought the car. Reluctant to invest in this car, trying to decide whether to keep or sell
Questions:
1) Will degrade gradually, or sudden loss of function with hazardous conditions?
2) Can nightly charging my (relatively-new) 12V battery help keep my hybrid battery charged? If the hybrid battery sucks power from 12V while parked, could this extend my hybrid battery life, long enough to shop for a new ride?
3) I had both catalytic converters replaced around 10k on recall and again at 98k; if they're likely to fail again soon, why replace hybrid battery? Any insight? no pun intended
4) If I drive another vehicle while advertising this car for sale, is the hybrid battery going to die from being parked too long?
I just did brakes, struts, tires...Thought of keeping this car, getting 2nd veh. as backup veh. but wondering I can affford to invest in this...yet can't afford to take the hit from selling it for next-to-nothing... Getting very wide ranging estimates of what dealers would give for trade.
Currently, I see (at least 1000 miles after code was read at dealership) that the indicator shows it's charging a little less than fully every time I drive, and takes longer to recharge to that point, and less time to discharge when accelerating. Gas mileage declining too. Honda America won't budge on the $3000 price tag, though I was told less than half that cost when I bought the car. Reluctant to invest in this car, trying to decide whether to keep or sell
Questions:
1) Will degrade gradually, or sudden loss of function with hazardous conditions?
2) Can nightly charging my (relatively-new) 12V battery help keep my hybrid battery charged? If the hybrid battery sucks power from 12V while parked, could this extend my hybrid battery life, long enough to shop for a new ride?
3) I had both catalytic converters replaced around 10k on recall and again at 98k; if they're likely to fail again soon, why replace hybrid battery? Any insight? no pun intended
4) If I drive another vehicle while advertising this car for sale, is the hybrid battery going to die from being parked too long?
I just did brakes, struts, tires...Thought of keeping this car, getting 2nd veh. as backup veh. but wondering I can affford to invest in this...yet can't afford to take the hit from selling it for next-to-nothing... Getting very wide ranging estimates of what dealers would give for trade.
You sound like you are getting P1447 errors. The car will continue to try to use the battery, but will have less and less success. You should only see a loss of assist and a reduction in fuel economy because the car will constantly try to charge the battery. You are already seeing the loss of economy. EVENTUALLY (like probably months from now) the car will give up on the battery. If it does because of a battery degraded condition P1447 then it will simply have no assist and no regen for the brakes. If it gives up because the battery has started to overheat (P1449) from the charging, then the DC-DC converter will shut down and the car will stop charging the underhood battery. Then you MUST fix it. You'll see the alternator light (or whatever it is called) at that time.
>2) Can nightly charging my (relatively-new) 12V battery help keep my hybrid battery charged? If the hybrid battery sucks power from 12V while parked, could this extend my hybrid battery life, long enough to shop for a new ride?
No. The 12V battery has nothing to do with the 144V hybrid battery. Also, when parked, relays disconnect the hybrid battery from the system. It does not ever consume any power from the 12V battery.
>3) I had both catalytic converters replaced around 10k on recall and again at 98k; if they're likely to fail again soon, why replace hybrid battery? Any insight? no pun intended
Why would you assume they would go bad again? I replaced mine at 96K. It was clogged. Normal failure. (You always replace both because if one is clogged, the other probably is too.)
>4) If I drive another vehicle while advertising this car for sale, is the hybrid battery going to die from being parked too long?
Drive it at least 30 minutes per week.
>Honda America won't budge on the $3000 price tag, though I was told less than half that cost when I bought the car. Reluctant to invest in this car, trying to decide whether to keep or sell
You can repair the battery to like-new (or at least "spring-chicken") condition for 1/4 to 1/3 of that. Search google for "ima battery repair honda" and check the first listing.
Twice in the past year, Honda has "checked my battery and charging system and all was fine". This week, I took the car in on Tuesday for a 3rd time after having a lengthy discussion with the Service Manager himself. My car would be worked on by the "shop foreman who is the Hybrid expert". I made it clear that I see the battery charging as I'm driving, but the last of the 8 bar never illuminates and after sitting for several days, I find only the last 4 bars illuminated. This occurs in the parking lot at work after the car is parked for 8 hours, too. My conversation with the person scheduling the appointment was ... they either need to fix the problem or help me get out of this car without losing my [non-permissible content removed]. This is ridiculous.
I receive a call from the "Expert" telling me the car needed 4 software upgrades and these would correct the issue. Their "testing equipment" which downloads/uploads these updates wasn't working properly, so Honda sent another which would arrive in 2 days. I was without a car for 2 days since they had shuttled me home. On Thursday morning, just after 9 am, I received a call that the car was finished.
When I picked it up, there were 4 bars on the IMA battery. I drove the car 40 miles to charge the battery. Despite the fact that I tried to ensure minimal use of assist and maximum charging, the battery FINAL reached a point of 7 bars, but by the time I reached my driveway was back to 4 because of a MINOR INCLINE.
I'm not an expert, but it appears the IMA battery is TRYING to charge, but if it can't charge to the maximum and HOLD the charge, IT ISN'T WORKING PROPERLY. I expected them to replace the batteries earlier this week.
Has anyone here experienced similar charging issues? Enlighten me... I'm currently logging IMA battery performance for 10 days, taking pics of the levels, the charging/assist, etc and putting together an obnoxious technical review of the situation. Perhaps I need to have a MAN explain it to them. Is the problem that a WOMAN thinks she knows what is going on?
1. For at least 3-4 months I have noticed reaching the the last bar on the IMA to be very difficult. I need to accelerate real carefully to minimize motor assist. I have counted only 6 - 9 times reaching the 8th bar in this time span and reaching the last bar seems to take forever.
2. When I spoke to the dealer they "talked in code" and wanted $90 to check the charging system/battery. I decline. I figure the codes would not show a problem at this point and I wanted more "ammunition" when I speak to the dealer again.
3. I also notice unusual charging behaviors while driving (long steady trips - Not City). If the IMA fell into the 4th bar it would try to charge, as it should, but sometimes the charging would continue until I reached the 7th or 8th bar. It almost seem that the car knew its battery was low and, if I gave it he opportunity on a steady run, decided to charge all the way.
4. As far as MPG. When my wife drives the car she never gets above 35 mpg. Because of my "hyper-miling" techniques I can still get 55-60 on long runs and 45 - 50 around town. As I said, I drive the car like a science experiment and have learned how to squeak out more mpgs.
It was on my trips to work during the spring that I first noticed the decline in IMA battery life. I will continue to monitor and take data. I will post these results shortly.
A week ago, with 7 bars on the IMA battery, I drove 30 miles at 45 to 55 mph and saw 57.9 MPG. As soon as I got onto the highway, I found the battery dropped and my MPG dropped considerably. After 70 miles, I was at 35 mpg. THAT IS A PROBLEM. I purchased the car for the fuel efficiency. I could get 35 mpg with the standard Civic, so why would I pay a premium for THIS PERFORMANCE?
I have purchased a second car while I address these issues. 3 days ago, I took the HCH to Roberts Honda in Downingtown. In a short test drive, there doesn't appear to be an issue. HOWEVER, the performance of the battery is erratic in the longterm. I've asked the mechanic to drive the car as he would his own for at least 3 days. I really want some to explain why I've lost 30% of my fuel consumption at the same time the battery indicator began to show reduced levels if the charging and battery systems are functioning properly. If I don't receive satisfaction, I'll be pursuing action through the attorney general's office. I first noticed the fuel consumption dropping 10 months ago, but it was still in the 40s. I was told it must be my driving, but it doesn't seem to matter if I drive aggressively or using hypermiling techniques. The result is the same. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. On one occasion, I left my driveway at 7 bars, saw 4 bars only 2 miles later (downhill) and less than 10 miles after that was at 2 bars. I doubt the level should ever indicate these values unless travelling in a mountainous area. This was essentially a flat terrain and when accelarating I focus on less than 3 bars on Assist.
BUT- i too have seen my mileage go down into the 30s and 40s. it makes me really angry. my friend who owns a Cobalt gets the same gas mileage as me!!!! it's absolutely ridiculous! when i bought the car it got in the 50s.
Funtechie- PLEASE, post here if/when you take action! i would like details on how to do that. i feel like there's nothing else i can do and honda always jerks me around. i get email reminders when people put a new post up, so your reply will go to my inbox, that would be great help! thanks!!!!
However, when I went to get my yearly car inspection the car did not pass. When I took it to the dealership the told me the two codes on the failure report had to do with the battery pack.
Is there any solution? Is there a way to correct the computer if that is the problem?
Any junkyard pack will fail in 9 months +/- 2 months unless it is reconditioned prior to use.
BTW, a 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid IMA battery weighs 67 lbs and is about 95 lbs in a wooden crate.
tsmith5414
Alexandria, VA
drive power train to save fuel and there are two battery in hybrid car one standard 12 volt conventional battery for starting system and some and most of the 12volts electrical components on the car except charging system but hybrid battery drive and energizes the electric motor for power drive plus other components that depend on it like the steering system and voltage on hybrid system is as high as 158 volts which can cook meats within seconds! hybrid battery when it goes bad it's most of the time one or few cells and you will get the warning way before it totally goes out but vehicle still can be started and driven with cautious still to get you to the repair shop to fix it and standard battery can be jump started unless it's totally dead and I hope this answers your question with 30 years of experience and by the way mini copper beats Honda on gas mileage without having hybrid system and thanks to German car and engineering which is superior in quality built power trains, technology, safety and plus body more rigid and more fun to drive and prestigious to own but you don't ignore German car on maintenance other wise they break down more often just like other car!
What I didn’t notice, however, was the shudder at low speeds. My local Honda dealer replaced the shift cable ($175) but the shudder at low speed was a separate matter. This required draining and flushing the transmission twice and burnishing the clutches ($87). This did fix the shudder problem but the 30+ year vetran Honda mechanic said I should probably change the fluid once more in about 7500 miles.
Next step, the check engine light was on and the dealer’s diagnostics said I needed both O2 sensors and a new IMA battery. Honda only sells the O2 sensors as a kit (installed price about $600) so I deferred this repair for later. You can get these parts at a auto parts store for around $200. For the IMA battery the technician had to personally talk with Honda Parts and they sent a loaner MCM to be installed, Honda required a dealer employee to drive the car as long as their loaner part was installed so one of the technicians drove the car home and back a couple of days, about a hundred miles, and they would then perform more diagnostics (the MCM was $1700 if I would have needed it).
Before I spent more money on diagnostics I talked with a company called Hybrid-Battery-Repair.com and gave them the error codes from the diagnostics, they were pretty sure that the MCM was not the problem so I purchased a refurbished IMA battery from them for $1600 including shipping which is at least a $1000 less than a refurbished battery from Honda. I replaced it myself in about an hour using their instructions and a couple of phone support calls. I drove the car about 30 miles and stopped at a local parts store and used their diagnostic tool and everything checked out fine including the O2 sensors. I don’t fault my Honda dealer as they were just following the shop manual procedures but if anyone is having IMA battery problems do contact this company because they will save you a ton of money. All in all I still only have in the car what NADA say’s it is worth so I didn’t really get hurt. By the way, if the MCM would have been bad Hybrid-Battery-Repair sells these for only $100.
If you have the money it is fine to be greener. Personally I won't own another one.
http://homepower.com/article/?file=HP137_pg84_Lamb
>described for replacing the battery pack of a 2003 Civic Hybrid.
Mike seriously misquoted me in that article and has some factual errors, but he's mostly right. If anyone wants to fix their own battery, they should contact me for corrections before they start.
> It was also pure brilliance to think to use a charger from the R/C hobbies world
> for this purpose
You mean, like this? (No, he didn't think it up.)
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