Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Back in the day, the Probe turbo had like 160 and that was pushing it, then the Plymouth Laser had 190, and then the Taurus SHO had 220. Its amazing how they are designing torque steer out of the drive-trains.
I think they are starting to look at active differentials to allow more power through the wheels doing the turning and the stopping. Things like the Prelude SH and the Acuras with SH might be one way to cope, and help the outside front tire pull the car through the turn.
Its interesting though, that car was very innovative in that it used aluminum for the block in a mass production car. If they had just finished testing before they started selling it and realized they needed to put steel sleeves in the cylinders, it would've been fine. That seemed to be a common complaint with domestics in the past, now people are frustrated they are not innovative enough...
He has his license still and I'm glad he at least wants to drive.
I think he'll dig my Lancer GTS a lot and will want to take it for a spin. I am grateful to my Dad for teaching me how to drive a stick. We had a zippy little 4-speed '66 VW Fastback that I could drive pert-near whenever I wanted though it remained my parents car.
Good for you for teaching your son. I am one who does not want manual tranny's to die off, I'm just taking a little diversion from them on this rig. :P
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
PS I have always regarded the Corvair, especially in its last few years, as the first (and perhaps only) innovative car that 'Detroit' ever built?
The Taurus was unlike anything in its price range in 1986. It had very modern styling, great driving characteristics, and good versatility.
Chrysler invented the minivan 3 times. I think that counts as innovation, and they kind of pioneered the modular platform concept in mass production (K-cars and minivans on same platform).
Saturn had very innovative body panels, and engines that were designed for the application proved to be robust if not smooth.
Thats a few decades of innovation. I think people see what they want to see.
Sorry, my bad :P
now thats a shock :P
I would agree on the time. I would like 6-7 years of minimal problems. We would not get that many miles in so short a time, though. We would only have 50-70K in that time. I can not expect 150K miles beacause that would be 15-20 years.
I keep track of maintenance and repair costs. On older cars, most of the time I see $400-800 per year for this. This seems okay to me. When it gets up over $1000 in a year is when I start feeling like the car is having too many problems.
It is undoubtedly cheaper to buy new Hondas every two years than new domestic vehicles, based on resale values, but it doesn't mean it is without cost. I'm not sure why anyone would try putting words in the mouth of someone who drives a make of car that they didn't like, when they pride themselves on driving something "different."
My father drives cars for about 60,000 miles, and by then, he's ready for something new and different. Last time his 2-year old Accord got rear ended though, he bought another JUST like it. Same color. Same powertrain. Same trim-level. I was amazed. He put 69,000 miles on it then couldn't take it anymore and got the car that had his eye since it came out. An Atomic Blue Civic EX Sedan. I wonder what he'll be driving in 2 more years?
And any opinion if they do the 2 tier gauges like the civic? Personally I wouldn't mind, but the huge sea of dash would be a mistake.
If they make the suspension a bit more firm, give it better brakes than current models, and give it a good stereo, that would be an amazing car for those of us who enjoy a spirited drive.
Looks like the conventional dash to me, although I had no problem getting accustomed to my father's 2007 Civic EX Sedan. Unconventional? Yeah. But it was pretty nice not being "conventional" for a change (I drive Accord 4-cyl, 4-doors, so conventional/practical is the norm for me).
Don't beat yourself up too much, I changed the brake fluid every couple years and I am on my 3rd master cylinder and 3rd clutch slave. I'm also on my 3rd distributor and 2nd radiator. I repaired the main relay so it shouldn't fail again.
You did great on your parts prices, I couldn't find a master cylinder for less than 3x that($150), and before I isolated the main relay from the fuel pump, the fuel pumps were more like $350 too.
I think its interesting they are so afraid to mess with the Accord in that respect. I would argue they would be better off putting that type of two-tiered cluster in the Accord, since the typical buyer is usually older than a Civic buyer, and it offers real usability advantages for older drivers.
Go find one of those early 90s Buicks that still have the big rectangular speedometers and measure the character height, and then check that against the speedo in the double-deck Civic. There are other advantages too but thats a start.
No - I said I keep each about 4 years, but do it every 2 years. Traded my wife's Camry in on an Odyssey. They gave us what we owed on the car as a trade-in value (was a 5 year loan initially and we put nothing down) and we paid what Edmunds said was the going price for the van.
I did the same with an Accord. They gave me what my payoff was for the car (again - had a 5 year loan, no money down initially) and I paid (again) what Edmunds said was the going price of an Acura TL.
Both times these cars were legitimately worth what the payoff was on them (or more) which made them both real easy to get out of and into the next vehicle. The dealer wanted my trades. Not many other makes can you get out of them for the payoff in the early years of ownership.
This scenario NEVER happened when I traded in the Fords we owned. Especially the Taurus. The dealer didn't want my trade.
Estimate resale on the Fusion is just under the Accord and just above the Camry. Why? Because they aren't putting huge amounts of cash on the hood and they're not dumping them into rental fleets and the quality is just as good as the competition (or better - so far).
If you make regular payments for 4 years on a 5 yr loan with nothing down and you don't have any equity - something's wrong. You'd be better off leasing if you know you want a new car every 4 years and you aren't paying them off early.
You did great on your parts prices, I couldn't find a master cylinder for less than 3x that($150), and before I isolated the main relay from the fuel pump, the fuel pumps were more like $350 too.
The master cylinder was a rebuilt one from Advance. I actually bought a main relay for it when the fuel pump went out (thinking it was the problem), so when I sold the car, there was an extra one in the trunk. The only part I bought from Honda was the tranny computer, and I could have probably got a good used one for much less. All the parts were probably bought about ten years ago. I think just about everything happened between 100k and 120k miles.
Leases are much harder to get out of than owning. I've done both. Leases handcuff you more.
Altho a lease on an 07 Accord should be pretty attractive right now with a MY change looming.
As for the sedan, I'll be interested in seeing it. The last few versions of the accord have given me that old man-mid level management feel. It's almost shocking to see someone under 40 driving one. will be real interesting to see what dirrection they go in.
Oh ya think so huh? When a Honda or Toyota costs about $3,000 - $5,000 more than a like optioned "domestic" brand? you had better have higher resale..
"I'm not sure why anyone would try putting words in the mouth of someone who drives a make of car that they didn't like, when they pride themselves on driving something "different."
Not sure I really understand this one? I wasn't putting words into anyones mouth.. :confuse:
Saying things like this...
HUH??? Are you saying you trade a 2 year old Toyota/Honda in for a new one? The dealer makes no profit?
...when he said nothing of the sort. That's a good attempt to spin what he said.
When a Honda or Toyota costs about $3,000 - $5,000 more than a like optioned "domestic" brand? you had better have higher resale..
I do. Best-in-class, actually. Thanks for checking though.
And I didn't pay $5,000 more for a like-optioned car (and a car isn't just the sum of its parts, but some people don't see it that way).
Typical Ford bashing here.... :sick:
Typical Ford bashing here....
Where's the bashing? He told a fact. If he said "Fords suck, regardless of the model" without any facts, THAT would be bashing.
He/She is posting his or her experience with the company, just like you did with Honda. They feel they got ripped off by Ford, just like you feel you did with Honda. Where's the difference?
Ever thought maybe I didn't understand what he said??
You may have not paid $5,000 more but you did pay MORE.. trying to make Accord/Camry cost less is like trying to convince people the world is flat. Anyone who shops knows these cars come at a premium price. You felt it necessary to pay extra for a perceived quality/reliability advantage. That is your choice. I did not and after 3 Fords that had no issues with them I will never again. So, stop putting those down who feel it unnecessary to pay extra for nothing...
I am enjoying my Fusion SEL v6 loaded with every option. It is getting me 24MPG and the trend is upward for MPG. No rattles, no problems, no issues at about 14,300 miles runs great, drives great. I also enjoy knowing I paid no interest on my loan and the car will be paid for in about 2 years.
The Ford product CAN perform, I've backed you up on that all along. Why do you say things like this when I've praised the Fusion REPEATEDLY on this forum?
I haven't been putting anyone down, but statements saying I'm paying extra for nothing are purely idiotic.
Who said I bought something other than Ford for reliability reasons? You. ONLY you. Why would you suggest that?
You don't drive a Honda, and have CLEARLY stated you NEVER will, so I don't take ANY of the price info (or lately, any other info) you post seriously at all due to clear anti-Honda bias that you are attempting to bash our heads with (much like that darn media you always mention in a comparison of car models). I bought the Honda because I liked the torquier 4-cyl coupled with the better mileage, as well as the interior design which I felt completely outclassed the compeitition. Why does it bother you that someone chose a Honda, when you pride yourself on driving something different?
The Fusion is likely the best-kept secret that the American companies have. It is certainly better than 80% of the competition. It just didn't offer what I wanted. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? WHY, IF I CHOSE HONDA, MUST I BE ACCUSED OF HATING FORD?
Since we're giving praise reports, I'll have had my car 18 months next week, with 18,600 miles on it. I get close to 40 MPG on most trips, an average right at 30 MPG on my commute into Birmingham. My friends always want to take my car because it is so good on gas and a nice ride, while I know how much fun it really is to drive on the twisties when I push the car harder. I got the car for $21,200, which is $2,600 under sticker. The Fusion's TMV, equipped with the options of my Accord (but without a design that I found desirable) was $19,623. That's a difference of $1,587. For that $1,587, I got best-in-class resale value, a torquier engine, an interior that I desired more, better fuel economy, and a dealership DOWN THE STREET (something that is just dumb luck and really didn't matter at buy-time).
Bro I'll bash any car I own that was a miserable piece of dung. Even the dealer passed on it. Soured me towards Ford for a long time.
It's not the metal trim that makes me really like this interior, it is the design. If the quality of the plastics is solid, and the tactile quality of the switchgear is close to my Honda's (which I found to be the best, others may not), I'd say it is a real contender in the interior department! Compared to the boxy, blocky Fusion, the Mondeo looks like the model the Fusion should have been, in my eyes. Some like the boxes, the stereo that's in many other Ford products, and the climate controls that are in many other models as well. I just like things to be unique to my car. Ford made the Mondeo look really nice!
I don't know what the size of Mondeo is but I would not be surprised if it would be called "too small" here, like the Contour and the Mazda6.
I agree with you, but the interior in the Mondeo has the kind of style I wish the Fusion offered, which for a $20k+/-, I think it should.
I feel similarly. While my 2004 Ford was not "a miserable piece of dung" it sure didn't give me many reasons to buy another Ford. It drove very well, had an excellent design, was very comfortable, and was tough. However, the interior materials were very cheap, it had miserable resale value and was in and out of the shop since day one, at least a dozen times... and some of the issues were never fixed. The dealerships could never fix it, I just had to live with the issues. It kept up with the odd noises and dashboard warning lights after the warranty expired, so... I cut it loose and bought a vehicle with one of the highest reputations for quality and reliability.
I agree. The Fusion I've been driving didn't have the ability to shift thru the gears like I want. Kinda silly that Ford's entry to compete against the CamCords doesn't have this basic offering.
I love second gear in bumper to bumper crawling. The slight braking and easy acceleration combination takes the constant riding the brake out of the picture some, making tough traffic on the highway easier to deal with. And the Fusion didn't have this. Sad.
I think we've been hearing that since 1903...
wait till you have about 75,000 on it.
They will get there. And maybe some folks will buy these and save fuel and what not so we can drive the fun cars that are left.
We hear all the talk about clean electricity. How is the electricity produced; buring coal, oil, natural gas or Heaven forbid :P nuclear?
What is the energy effiency? Years ago, a friend of mine (38 years older than me) who is a retired plumber advised us to replace our worn out gas clothes dryer with a new gas clothes dryer (even though gas dryers are more expensive then electric dryers) because the gas transmission line is more effecient than electric lines (with their power loss through the electric lines). We've followed his advice for two replacement dryers.
I don't pretend to know about all that stuff, but it seems logical to me. A direct pipeline to our dryer vs "some" energy source to an electric generator and then transmitted via power lines (with a loss of energy along the way) to reach an electric dryer.
Unless the electricity produced is greater than the energy required to produce it and/or unless the machine consuming the energy consumes electricity more efficiently than an alternate direct fuel source, then bateries will be more expensive to operate (never mind replacing them at some point).
Like I said, since 1903...
Personally, I don't think having a bad experience with a product will make me exclude that brand in the future. It all comes down to how a current product is being judged. I had a bad subaru that was in for service far too often and cost me far too much. But would I buy another one? You bet. I had a bad panasonic DVD player. Would I buy another one? Yeah, actually, I now have two of them. Reason being, I know the track record now is pretty good for both brands. We're in an age of information and I choose to take advantage of it rather than use a narrow view of personal experience and second hand stories.
And knowing that most car manufacturer's quality is now very good according to multiple sources (jd powers and cr), I felt comfortable choosing based on other priorities. I wanted something fun to drive, had good hauling capabilities, something that I liked to look at, was a good value in up front costs, and was safe to drive.
The people I've known that owned Mazda cars have had good experiences with them and more importantly had a passion for them that most other car owners have not had. I understand why now that I own one.
I'm glad I did not limit my choices because one brand had a fraction of a percent higher reliability rating over a five year period. Otherwise I'd probably be driving a *YAWN* camry or corolla now. Scary thought...