Chrysler T&C/Dodge Grand Caravan brakes
we have a 2005 town and country with 18,000 miles and we are going on our third set of brakes. Any body else have this problem
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I called 4 different places and each told me that it's most likely the calipers - and that the place we went should've been able to tell that - either way I need to take it someplace again to have it looked at!
I eliminated my problems by replacing my front rotors to EBC Sport Rotors (Drilled & Slotted). Brembo also makes one just like it. These rotors lets dust and gas escape through the slots and dimples to keep your brakes cool. I match them with a Raybestos QuietStop Non-Ferrous Ceramic Pads :shades: . These pads come with a limited lifetime warranty.
If you can take off lug nuts off of your tire and unscrew two bolts off of your caliper you should be able to do this your self with little effort.
Based on my experience with the 02 T&C, the T&C have OUTSTANDING brakes for both stopping and lasting a long time.
That does not sound very good to me, but that is still quite a bit better than 6,000 miles!
I changed out the original pads on my '96 Legacy wagon at 144K for the fronts and 196K for the rears.
Talked to a local mechanic and he told me that these vans have a real problem with brakes on hills. According to him there is some kind of sensor that puts nearly all braking power on the front wheels when sensing a down grade.
So, now I slow to 25 MPH on the steep down-hill and have the transmission shift into 1st and use that gear to descend. This way I practically don't touch the brakes the whole way.
Interestingly I also had a company car (GC) that had its brakes last 94K miles. But, it was driven mostly on level grounds.
I recently purchased a '98 GC, and I found the same thing. The only gear that provides any appreciable engine braking is 1st. I know its brakes will not last as long because I already find myself having to use them far more than on any other car I have ever owned. It really took some getting used to letting off the accelerator and not having it slow down right away. Then again, I would not want a 3.8L V6 running at 2800-3000 RPM at highway speeds as it would not make for very good mileage....
It's cheaper to buy ceramic pads. They last longer.
While on the topic, though, I was thinking about towing... is that a no-no for these things?
It's OK to tow these things make sure they tow it from front and let rear wheels free roll.
I had to tow mine when the main board went bad at 86,000. It cost me $2000 for the board and 11days of rental and that doesn't include towing.
I did have 100,000 mile no deduction service contract from Chrysler. I paid $0, even free towing and free basic rental.
Thank God...
I am working on that one and getting better at it. Even so, it takes a LONG time for it to slow down even a little (probably 1/4 mile to go from 60 to ~45). As for the truck, yes, it is a stick and geared very low at that! Unless I get caught by a surprise traffic maneuver from another motorist or a "last second red light" as happens occasionally, the brakes do not get used much. Still original pads on it at 38 years and 71K miles!
Regarding towing - Haha... I was intending to ask if it is okay to tow with them, such as a small trailer - like 2000# or less. I do not want to stress the transmission, but would like to have the option of towing. I am specifically thinking about a two-unit snow machine trailer with two sleds on board (~600# each).
Thanks!
Our '94 Caravan (std) needed front brake pads at 50,300 miles, 99,800 miles, and 162,400 miles. The front rotors were replaced once at 99,800 when they became pitted. I also replaced one of the front brake calipers at the 99,800 mile mark. The rear shoes were never replaced!
oeuser's experience is more like I would expect.
I don't know the difference between the '94 and the '05. I've heard on other forums that manufacturers have cheapened up on the rotors and made them lighter. This could exasperate a heating problem that would make it more likely for material to be transferred from the pads to the rotors. The most likely time for this to occur is after a hard stop and the brake pedal is kept depressed, thus keeping the pads in contact with the hot rotor.
The pads were replaced a month ago, then again two weeks ago and now the brakes are grinding again. Does anyone know what Chrysler is doing about this problem if anything? I have to say it's at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one that has this problem. I too was "accused" two years ago when we first had the brake pads and rotors replaced of "riding the brake".
I would appreciate anyones feedback.
If the pads are not retracting the way they should, the problem could be in the rubber seals on the calipers, the brake proportioning valve, or the master cylinder.
As to the brake dust, that's usually a function of what kind of material the brake pads are made of.
I assume this problem is with the front bakes, both sides?
I think part of the problem with the brakes on many cars nowdays is the fact they use organic (non asbestos) brake pad material and soft steel in the rotors.
I have also heard that Chrysler used essentially the same brakes on the Caravan as was on the Intrepid, Concorde ect, and the vans are too heavy for the smaller brakes. Hopefully that problem is gone on the 2008's with their bigger brakes.
Our the rear E-brakes adjustable at all?
I just don't get what's hanging this up.
revol
Anyway, did you replace the calipers when you did the brake job or just the pads and rotors? I'd look at a stuck caliper if it's still the old one. You can sometimes extract the piston (compressed air), clean it out and reassemble with new seals without having to buy a replacement.
If the calipers are okay I'd check for a bad proportioning valve. Do a Google search for more details.
I took it to a dealer...who told me the only thing they could do....is to start changing parts....this I could not beleive!!!! Anyway he suggested the master cylinder first....then the brake booster after that. What you describe that happened to your outback ....is exactly what is happening to me. I guess it was happening ever since I purchased the van......but when I was in the mountains....it was just to much for the brakes.
I have to wait until Monday for the master clyinder...I tell you how it goes!!
In my case, I had a hint that it was the master cylinder 'cause the brake pedal just didn't feel right (in addition to the smoke coming out from the wheel wells). Luck also has a certain amount to do with picking the right part to replace. Also, since I did the work myself, it only cost me the $150 or there 'bouts for the master cylinder.
It can only be the problem......if it is applying a pressure to the master cylinder after the engine is started. I will lift the van and see if the resistence changes after the engine is started. I noticed an adjustment screw on the booster shaft and I'm not sure if this has to be adjusted.
i did drive my van with the vacuum line to the booster disconnected....It made for hard braking....but the brakes still heated up.
There are only two things left to check.....the ABS system could be, for some reason is applying a slight pressure....or the new (high end ) brake pads that I bought are causing the excessive heat. My 2000 caravan, which I still own and have owned for 5 years....does not have any brake issues...... I have done the brakes a few times....but I don't know how many miles in between brake jobs. But I do know that I have always put cheap pads in that van.....So maybe its the high end pads on my 2004 that are causing the problem.....even though I can't beleive that myself.
I've got a 3,000 km drive coming up....so I think I will drive and see how it goes.
Can you jack the van up in the front, take off the wheels, turn the engine on, put it in gear, and watch the rotors turn? Or leave it in neutral and try to turn the hub/rotor yourself by hand. There should be a light drag.
Did you research the brake proportioning valve issue that I suggested you check way back on July 19?
The ABS controls the pressure on all the wheels.
I do think you are right....but I am disapointed that there is no test to check for this.
we are heading back home ....and I will try not to use the brakes too much
In Nov. Les Schwab had turned the rotors, replaced both front front calipers with rebuilts, and installed new brake pads F & R.
When she took it back they said the brakes were operating normally but they drained and refilled the brake fluid and bled the brake system anyway.
I didn't drive the van again until about six weeks ago and the brakes still didn't feel right to me. "Normal" braking seemed to be okay but if I tried to stop more quickly than normal the brakes didn't seem to grab or take-hold adequately.
Back to Les Schwab yet again who after driving it told me the brakes felt normal to the service technician.
Not being satisfied I took it to the Kirkland Chrysler who, the service manager, without even test driving the car told me that Les Schwab, because they warrant the life of the brake pads, typically use "longer lasting" brake pads rather than pads that will provide the best braking HP.
So, off to Napa to purchase and install their Ceramix front pads.
No difference.
Next, back to Kirkland Chrysler to pay $500 to install a new master cylinder on the chance the wrong one was installed 3-4 years ago down in the south bay area of CA.
Again, No help. And the master cylinder that was removed proved to have the correct (25.4 mm - 1 inch) cylinder bore required for the T&C AWD disc/disc braking system.
Since Kirkland Les Schwab happened to be right next door I drove into their shop and asked to have the vehicle test driven. The technician, upon returning, drove the van directly into the service bay and put it onto a lift. He told me that the van's brakes were definitely not operating correctly.
After reseaching all the Les Schwab invoices and work orders my daughter had retained he concluded that the wrong front brake calipers had been installed by their Redmond shop. Within an hour, no charge, he had the "correct" (correct by Les Schwab's computer database) front calipers installed along with yet another set of new front brake pads.
Guess what..??
Right, it didn't help.
I have just ordered a new proportioning valve ($75) from Kirkland Chrysler which I will have them installed. Estimated arrival in a week.
The way I read the factory service manual the AWD van uses a "fixed" proportioning valve which doesn't come into play until the master cylinder brake pressure rises to about 1000 PSI. Apparently at that pressure level it will have activated and limited, limits, the rear braking pressure to 690 to 800 PSI.
That might mean that if the proportioning valve has failed then both front and rear brakes will continue to get equal pressure distribution even during hard/severe/panic braking thereby WASTING braking effort at the mostly "do-nothing" rear brakes when the weight shifts to/toward the front due to deceleration/inertia.
Have I missed something/anything..?? :sick:
Your conclusion sounds logical to me. I, also, have an AWD van, though mine is a 1998. With 190,000 miles on it, we have had it ~16 months and the front pads have worn probably about 10% in those 20,000 miles. I think the brakes on this van are excellent, especially on dry surfaces. They are extremely responsive to driver input and will slow the vehicle down very quickly in a "panic" stop.
Good luck tracking down the issue, and please post the solution when it is found. I used to live in Pendleton, OR, and used Les Schwab on numerous occasions. I always found their staff helpful and honest, so I expect they will do everything they can to set this situation right both for your daughter's safety and your satisfaction.
They tried to do the pressure testing but with three out of four defective pressure guages, reading above 500PSI "at rest", the testing must be considered inconclusive.
I suspect my next effort, if any, will be to block the fluid flow to the rear brakes altogether and see how the braking "feels" under hard/panic braking.
My problem may be that I am simply expecting too much of the braking capability of the van. I seem to remember that back when I was driving it on a more regular basis the panic level braking was much better, but at my age...
But based on other vehicles I drive regularly I can panic brake on dry pavement, asphalt, and get the ABS to kick in easily, with the van that is difficult even on wet asphalt.
To cross check I went next door to the Toyota dealer and test drive a used Sienna. Surprise, even without my leaning into the brakes ABS would kick in on that same section of rain soaked roadbed.
The Sienna did seem to be more ponderous handling wise but the brakes were as expected, "lean" into them and the nose would dive, unlike the T&C that under hard/severe braking just seems to "float along".
I guess my next step is to find calipers that will fit the van but have BIGGER pistons. Or do I have to find a machine shop..??