Taurus/Sable Maintenance & Repair

pvron

Frustrated by this problem. When I start my '93 taurus, 3.0L with 150,000, it has a very rough idle and stalls. If I start it in neutral same story. Once I start and get into drive or reverse, there are no problems..no rough idle, no stalling.I have changed the plugs, air filter, pvc valve, checked for vacuum leaks...any ideas. Thanks

stantont

ABS does not compare differences in speed between wheels. What it does is check wheel speed every tenth of a second and compute the change in speed per unit time: that gives the acceleration of the wheel. Since the max deceleration the car can get is approximately one G (assuming the tire's coefficient of friction is 1.0), any deceleration greater than one G is considered slippage, so the ABS kicks in. If you have a 4-channel system, it can sense the deceleration if one wheel lifts off the ground over a bump while the brakes are on hard. That's what was happening to my SHO as I entered the parking garage with the brakes on: the right front wheel lifted over a bump at the entrance, so the ABS slowed it down while in midair.

Car manufacturers now use that same bit of info for speed increases (as well as decreases) and feed that same wheel sensor data to traction control sustems. The logic is the same, but instead of backing off the brakes as ABS does, traction control either backs off the throttle, or applies the brakes lightly to the spinning wheel or wheels, or both.

Stability control systems actually do compare speeds betwen wheels, as well as other dynamic data, to try to prevent skids, etc. Lots more computer logic there!

BTW, you may have noticed that lots of new cars don't have speedometer cables anymore. That's because manufacturers now use the wheel sensor for the ABS to compute speed for the speedometer. The speedo gauge on the dash is actually an electronic meter.

snowman

I think the problem is the neutral-start switch which is installed on your transmission. It needs adjustment. Good luck.

burdawg

Check your fuel pressure. Also if your injectors are original it may be time for a good cleaning, or more likely replacement. At 150K you might be on borrowed time in a Taurus. There's other areas to check, MAF sensor, throttle position sensor, but I think I would start at fuel delivery with that mileage. Best of luck to you.

ndfar

Has anyone added a trailer hitch to their Taurus?
I have and noticed a vibration in the front end of the car which is transferred through the steering wheel at 50-55 mph and gets worse the faster you go. It kinda vibrates in a cycle coming and going every 2-3 seconds. It does it with a load and when the trailer is empty. The trailer was used the same weekend being pulled behind my brothers F-150 and he said it pulled so sweet that he couldn't even feel it was there.

badgerfan

My guess is you are feeling more of the trailer wheel vibration. The Taurus is a unibody car, so trailer vibrations will be transmitted to the passenger compartment much more than on a truck, where the trailer hitch is attached to the truck frame, which is in turn isolated from the truck cab by rubber isolators. A "pulsating" vibration is usually related to wheel vibration with wheel speed being slightly different(perhaps the left and right wheels are inflated differently) This may be from trailer wheel tread vibration or unbalance coming into and out of phase due to the slight wheel speed difference. This causes a "beating effect" which would account for the "coming and going" of vibration every 2-3 seconds.

jaybo4

My '96 with 69,000 on it is leaking everything.
The freeze plug is leaking.
To repair it costs $500 labor & $1.00 parts.
The whole engine needs to be removed.
does anyone know how to replace the freeze
plug easy? The motor Tech added a GM motor
seal product that seems to help. He didn't want
to take my money yet.

wijoco

I am having (more) trouble with my 97: the ignition switch over time is siezing up. It feels like either the lock bearings are drying out or the rod is sticking in its bore. I tried spraying silicone through the keyhole, which worked for a few days, but it evaporated. I'm thinking about buying a can of white grease spray and saturating everything inside the keyhole that I can. The white grease won't evaporate. It's starting to feel like metal-on-metal grinding when I turn the key. Is anyone else having this problem?

giantrob

I am looking to buy a 98 Taurus SE, 3.0 V6 engine, the miles are high,"85K" but the price is good. Should I be looking at this car as a good buy or should I say goodbye?

bronsonb

I've been reading posts from several Taurus owners, and like them I am experiencing warped rotors on the front. I had them machined about two months ago, but they are warping again. I am not a heavy footed person on the brakes. I was wondering if replacing the front rotors is something I can do on my own (perhaps using those NAPA rotors one of the posters mentioned)? I have a CD-based technical service manual on the Taurus (I have a 2000 SE Wagon), but it doesn't go into detail on rotor removal and installation. I've replaced brake pads before, but I didn't know if doing this would be biting off more than I can chew. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

If you think I should take it to a professional to have it done, just let me know. Also, do you know how much something like this should cost? Thanks!

slickdog

bronsonb,

Brake rotors aren't tough to remove/replace, you just need the appropriate tools.

Basically, you remove two bolts from the back of the caliper, and pull it up away from the rotor. Fords usually have Torx head caliper bolts, so you may have to go shopping for a set of Torx sockets. When you remove a caliper, you'll need some wire to suspend it with so the brake line doesn't get stressed.

Sometimes the rotors can be pulled right off by hand, but you may have to coerce them with a rubber mallet. Some designs require that a tool be used to disengage the rotor from the hub assembly, but I've not seen this on a Ford.

Some major auto parts stores will machine rotors for about $10-$15 per rotor while you wait, and I've never been turned down by a full service outfit, although they sometimes make you wait quite a while if busy.

I've personally spent as little as $50 and as much as $150 on new rotors for various cars, but I don't know what the high quality NAPA rotors for a Taurus would cost. Don't trust the guy at the parts counter to guess the right size for your car, either. Some like models come with multiple rotor sizes depending on exact date/location of manufacture, and ordered options (like towing packages). Measure the diameter of your old rotors, or take one with you to the store.

Even with the most expensive parts, you're going to come in at a lot less for the job than if your mechanic had done it unless he's extending some pretty deep discounts to you.

When you reassemble everything, if you're using new rotors, you may have to force the pads apart, which can be done with a wood block and a c-clamp or pad spreading tool. Use of anti-seize compound on the hub/rotor mating surface aids future removal, and the caliper bolts may need lubrication with high temp. grease.

Reinstallation of the caliper bolts requires a torque wrench. The torque specs can be found in Chiltons or other basic repair guides. Also use a torque wrench for the wheel lugs to prevent overtightening which can lead to more rotor warping problems. Don't buy a cheap torque wrench with the pointer/guage on it, because you won't be able to see it when the wrench is backwards and inside the wheel well while tightening the caliper bolts. Get the breakaway type (much more expensive, but a valuable asset for car repair) that clicks off when you reach the proper torque.

Hope this helps, good luck...

bronsonb

Slickdog, Thanks for the details. That's exactly the information that I needed. I will start shopping for a torque wrench this weekend. The entire job doesn't sound too complicated, but it looks like it might require more than a little elbow grease! Take care.

slickdog

No problem bronsonb, happy to help. DIY brake jobs are a big money saver if you're willing to spend the time and effort. Just make absolutely sure you're doing things carefully and correctly, because botching the job could have serious consequences for obvious reasons.

You'd probably be wise to hunt down a decent repair manual for your car and follow it's procedures for this type of job. They go into details (like torque specs) that may be specific to your model year. Chilton's or Haynes manuals are usually adequate for this type of work, don't cost much and are easy to get (your local library may even have the right one so can photocopy the relevant pages). Manufacturer shop manuals can be had at dealerships, are VERY detailed and usually cover only one model year. However, they are very expensive (can be $100 or more), and most assume the reader has a fair amount of experience working on their vehicles, and for some procedures also assume you have the same specialized tools as the dealer. Alldata has a web site which contains online shop manuals for 1000's of models, but you have to pay a yearly subscription to view just one. I subscribed one year for my Taurus, but found that the amount of time I used it did not justify the cost (around $30 yearly if I remember correctly). At the time it was also somewhat lacking in details for some procedures and schematics of the vehicle.

mrdetailer

Taurus was the #3 selling mid sized sedan, and number 6 overall. With so many mid sized sedans it's amazing that sales are still going so well for a 15 year old model.

ndfar

I was getting my oil changed on my 1999 Taurus and was informed that my anti freeze was a brown color. They said that there is a service bulitin out for 1997 that there is a areation problem in the cooling system that cause the antifreeze to turn to a pond scum and are finding it in newer models such as my 1999. Is there a recall on this that anyone knows about? He said it had something to do with a valve in the one of the lines that allows air into the system.

ndfar

I was getting my oil changed on my 1999 Taurus and was informed that my anti freeze was a brown color. They said that there is a service bulletin out for 1997 that there is a aeration problem in the cooling system that cause the antifreeze to turn to a pond scum and are finding it in newer models such as my 1999. Is there a recall on this that anyone knows about? He said it had something to do with a valve in the one of the lines that allows air into the system.

ehenness

Note that some of the Tauruses and Sables came with GM-style Dexcool (long-life) coolant from the factory. That coolant is orange, not green. It looks like orange Jello color-wise when it's new and does turn an darker brownish orange as it ages. If your car got this stuff from the factory, you may be OK. My '98 has it. I think the cars in question in the TSB ('96s and '97s) got green stuff from the factory, so a sludgy brown in those would be a Bad Thing (TM). I know that Ford calls for replacement of coolant at 50,000 miles or 48 months, regardless of coolant type on the '98s, so you may be due for a change.

Note too that you cannot mix the two types. You MUST replace what you have with the same stuff when you flush and refill. They are not compatible with one another. That would be a Doubly Bad Thing (TM) if you mixed the green stuff and the orange stuff. I don't know what actually happens, but the warnings from Ford and on the bottles is enough to convince me of that! ;-)

There's no recall for that that I know of (you can go to Ford's website under Owner Services and enter your car's VIN and it will report back any open recalls on your car).

By the way, technical service bulletins are neither recalls nor a free repair (unless you are under warrantee). They are created for Ford dealers to provide them more info on specific service issues. So even if the TSB applies to your car, you are not entitled to any work from Ford at their cost unless you still are under the base warrantee or an extended warrantee covers the work. Not that you assumed that or anything, but I just wanted to point it out for a reader that might have wondered (since you asked about a recall and also mentioned a service bulletin).

dare2b3

anyone else have a chime that starts up about 30 seconds after you start up engine, unlike the seat belt warning one, it is slower, and always rings in a series of 5 patterns, 5 tones each? this emits sporadically while driving, always in that pattern, no warning lights are on. Also my radio and clock panel is sporadically dead, never know when it will work and when it won't. Had my battery replaced as it was low, but alternator supposedly working o.k. I just bought this car and feel I have made a serious error. Door chime switch already replaced, did not fix problem, this is not the same chime you hear when door opens, that one is quicker and not in that pattern. Can anyone help??? email me here or at dare2b3@aol.com Thanks!

snowman

Has any 2000+ owner attempted to adjust sprayers on the hood. Mine sprays the fluid with very wide angle, side and rear windows are gettin all messed up.
I looked at them, they are not conventional type that you can adjust them with pin.

q45man

"Since the max deceleration the car can get is approximately one G (assuming the tire's coefficient of friction is 1.0), any deceleration greater than one G is considered slippage, so the ABS kicks in." from earlier post

Due to worn road surfaces and the use of tires that are excesively hard [high treadwear rating >200 or more than 2 years old] it is usually impossible to get much above 0.87G! For the entire average distance [testing of police cars say 25 feet/sec squared is minimum].

"The above computations were figured on dry pavement, for which we used an average braking rate (a combination of coefficient of friction and deceleration) of .870 g. But consider wet pavement. When inclement conditions present themselves, the braking rate drops considerably -- and the braking distance grows exponentially. On wet pavement, for example, the braking rate drops from .870 g to .600 g."

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/43810/article.html

This is the usual set point of the ABS system, car with soft performance tires might be set to allow 0.9 G for the maximum tire deceleration above some standard speed [15-20 mph] because that is as good as the road gets!.

The harder the tires the quicker the ABS activates [due to their lower friction capabilities so they lock up faster] and the longer the stopping distance.

http://www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2002-01-0301.pdf

stantont

This may be picking nits, but cars CAN get better than 1.0 G on braking under ideal conditions. Read the road tests in some of the car mags. You'll find the very best can stop from 60 mph in 114 feet; I've even seen 108 feet (a Corvette, I believe). Anyway, 60 mph to zero in 114 feet is an average deceleration of 33.9 ft/sec/sec, or 1.06G. 108 feet corresponds to 1.12G.

I don't claim this is typical, but one should not set the set-point on an ABS system for average surface conditions, because then that becomes the best the vehicle can do, no matter how good the ACTUAL traction may be. If the engineers the ABS for 0.8G, then they have decreed that the vehicle can stop in no less than 151 feet, no matter how good the actual surface friction may be.

mullins87

Ok, I'm going to show my ignorance of ABS systems, so here I go. I thought ABS only used the sudden deceleration of the tires rather than the G-forces incurred in braking.

badgerfan

ABS braking systems monitor only wheel speed when braking. As soon as a wheel begins to lock up completely, the ABS kicks in to keep the wheel from locking up completely, because if an individual wheel locks up, it means the wheel is skidding, and skidding wheels mean you have no steering control. ABS main benefit is to allow steering control during panic stops, where your wheels would all lockup and skid and not steer. Anyone in the snow belt that has had a non-ABS car knows what happens if you lock your brakes on snow or ice. You cannot steer at all.

If you have tires that have relatively poor traction, then a wheel will start skidding at lower braking force than with better traction tires and the braking force you can develop will be less than with better traction tires, as the ABS limits the braking force so that the wheel won't lock up. Your stopping distance thus will be longer with lower traction tires, and the G forces you can develop will also be lower.

The ABS system has nothing to do with sensing G forces during decelerration, but will allow more stopping force if the tires will grip enough to permit the wheels not to lock up.

So, mullins87, you are not showing your ignorance, you are right.

mullins87

The previous discussion made it sound as if ABS used G-forces to determine when to engage. I was sitting here thinking that couldn't be right.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

stantont

Actually, ABS computes acceleration; but it is the "acceleration" of the tire. What it actually measures is the time for each little tooth on the wheel ABS ring (looks like a gear on the hub) to pass the magnet and coil. Then it computes the speed of the wheel every tenth of a second, and compares the speed with the last value (one tenth of a second earlier). The "acceleration" of the tire is given by the change in speed divided by the time (remember high-school physics?) If the tire is gripping the road, the calculated acceleration cannot be more than about 1 G. If the computer calculates an "acceleration" greater than one G, the logic says that is impossible, so the tire must be locking; the system backs off the brake hydraulic pressure for 1/10 second and re-computes the acceleration again. It keeps doing this every tenth of a second until you back off the brakes or the vehicle stops, whichever comes first.

mobster

I will never own another Detroit built car. My Taurus is losing oil through a blown head gasket. The anti-freeze is crap brown colored from oil leaking into anti-freeze reserviour tank. I checked for recalls and found none for blown gaskets.

Check this out from a reliable source! http://www.lemonaidcars.com/secret_warranties.htm#3.8L

I also had the reservior tank crack and leak anti-freeze. I replaced this unit at cost to me. Happened at 60,000 miles.

Ford should have recalled the cars to replace reserviors before they led to blown engine gaskets. Ford is a lousy run corporation.

Toyota's Camry got a 73 rating from consumer reports. The highest rating of all mid-sized cars while Taurus got only a 54.

 My warning light came on at 65,000 miles and had to be put out by the dealer. A tune-up was needed and caused the alarm.

I replaced the front brake pads at 55,000 miles to prevent problems from excessive pad wear. Make sure you buy the expensive pads (over $60)or you end up with blackened sooted rims.

mralan

Anyone have their power steering fluid changed at the dealership? Was it expensive?

At what mileage did you have this done?

badgerfan

As far as I know, Taurus maintenance schedule does not ever require changing the fluid. The only maintenance required is to check and maintain the proper fluid level.

If a dealer is recommending this, they are likely trying to rip you off.

mrdetailer

I generally change out the Brake and Power Steering Fluid at 30K intervals. This was after some extensive repairs to the Power Steering pump. Much less expensive to do that than pay for the repairs. I also add a Lubegard Power steering fluid suppliment in the recommended ratios for a little extra protection against heat damage.

badgerfan

The head gasket problems applied to the 3.8 Liter engines, which was discontinued after the '95 model year and not available in your '96 Taurus.

Furthermore, a cracked antifreeze overflow reservoir would have nothing to do with a blown head gasket, unless you somehow ran the antifreeze level so low that the engine overheated, which could warp a cylinder head. In that case you should have seen it on your temperature gage and stopped driving.

I have not heard of significant amounts of head gasket failure complaints on the current V-6's available. Has anyone had head gasket problems on either their Vulcan or Duratec engines?

Your comments about Consumer Reports ratings are incorrect as Consumer Reports does not use a numerical system you listed to rate cars.

mralan

I asked this question because I read about many problems with power steering components. If the dealership charges around $65, and you plan to keep your car for awhile. The p.s. fluid flush maybe well worth it.

riswami

Badgerfan - my Vulcan v-6 has been fine, Coming up on 75k and engine performs the same as the day I bought it. have had a mysterious "Service Engine Soon" come on and then leave. Gave me a torque converter code last time. Just going to drive it until it fails. At this point I think it is something minor or electrical.

As far as power steering fluid. Get a turkey baster and suck out the fluid. Add new fluid. You may want to do this a few times over a couple of weeks. Should get you fresher fluid.

ma4859tt

My 1990 Taurus GL has been smoking a lot recently. You only notice it when sitting at a stop or after the car has been turned off. I opened the hood and tried to find where it was coming from, but no luck. While changing the oil today, I decided to check the power steering fluid. It was low. I poured some new fluid in (it's a clear kind of stuff, almost like motor oil) and instantly the fluid in the container started becoming black. Almost like putting oil and water together. That seemed to be, not right. Also, I smelled the fresh power steering fluid, and it smelled just like the smell that I am gassed with in the car. The vehicle is a 3.0 V6. The head gaskets were replaced about 2 years ago. Also, I cannot seem to keep the coolant level steady. I add fluid directly to the radiator instead of the overflow. Also, when placing the car in reverse, the car does not shift correctly. Does anyone have any ideas? Had any of theses problems? Thank you.

riswami

has nothing to do with any of your other problems. The fluid in my 97's power steering is the sme stuff you put in the tranny.

mrdetailer

When you checked the power steering fluid, did it smell burnt?

If the Power Steering is not leaking then I would recommend the turkey baster method to replace it a few times until it is clear again.

Is your exhaust white? That indicates that water from the radiator is coming into the combustion chambers.

How many miles are on the vehicle?

Has the transmission been serviced?

Have you had an oil analysis done? That is a good indicator of water getting into your oil system.

Have you had a compression test? I understand that they can determine whether it is a gasket or other cause.

ccoach

Here's a mighty strange one for yawl...
Car starts perfectly fine after sitting for about 1 hour or more - in fact, I can get the starter to turn until I start down the road. If the car should happen to stall, or I forget and stop to gas up, the car won't restart - it simply makes a clicking noise from under the right center portion of the dashboard. Give it about 10-15 minutes and starts right back up.

If the car has been driven some distance, a few miles or so & it stalls out, then if I play with the shift lever in the neutral or park position, I can get the starter to catch.

I had a starter relay lying about so threw that on - with little expectation of fixing the problem and I was right ("didn't fix it" he noted more concisely;)

I was thinking about replacing the neutral start switch off the top of the transmission ... any thoughts??

Btw, old "Red" just turned 192,000 and doesn't burn nary a drop of oil (leaks it sure, but not out the exhaust! )

200,000 or Bust!

Scott

mrdetailer

ezaircon4jc

ccoach

Now that one I haven't run across - and I've even had the dash out (for the heater core replacement).

Could you elaborate??

Thanks!

ehenness

Some time in the later 1990s (I forget when, but I had a '94 Plymouth that did not have an interlock), the Feds added a requirement to the safety standards. It said that cars with auto transmissions must have an interlock between the gearshift and the brake, so that you cannot move the shift lever out of park unless your foot is firmly on the brake.

There's usually an override procedure in case your brake light fuse or something goes and keeps you from getting it out of park even with your foot on the brake.

It is a case of regulating stupidity--I guess there were too many cases of people revving the engine in park and yanking the car into reverse and zooming backwards...

I don't think it applies to the original poster--the car is too old to have an interlock, if I recall correctly. And it only affects the ability to shift the car. It'll start fine with a bad interlock, but you won't be able to go anyplace...

ezaircon4jc

What I was refering to was the interlock between the shift lever and the ignition switch. You can't move the lever out of park without the key in start or run. If the car thinks the lever is anywhere but park or neutral, the car won't start.

ehenness

Right! I forgot about that one, since I've always heard what I described as the 'shift interlock' with what you meant called something like 'ignition interlock' or something else. That's been around since the '69 model cars. Totally missed that--thanks for pointing it out...

Actually, there are 2 different things going on there. One is the mechanical bit that keeps the key from being turned to 'lock' except when the auto trans is in "P." The other part is the neutral safety switch, which keeps the electricity from flowing to the starter if the trans is not in "P" or "N." That's an electrical switch in the transmission. If the mechanical part keeps the lever from going all the way into "P", then the neutral safety switch will keep the juice from going to the starter.

Good call--definitely something to check!

dbeed

I had an 84 Tempo that had the same restart problem after I had the ALternator replaced. The mechanic stretched the cable and put a new end on it instead of replacing the entire cable. When I took it back, the shop owner looked at it and knew exactly what was wrong. When the engine heated up and everything expanded slightly, the cable was so tight that it didn't make the proper contacts. Once the engine colled down and "shrank" back it starterd properly. Sounds wierd? I thought so but when the new cable was installed I never had another problem with it. The mechanic that did the work was fired too for doing bad work. Justice served

dtremblay

I have an intermittent problem with the A/C blowing hot air and I can't turn it off. The A/C is an electronically controlled climate unit that appears to be part of the stereo unit in the dash. The problem is so intermittent that the dealer could not reproduce the problem. The A/C will run for days with no problem, then suddenly hot air starts to blow and at the same time the stereo shuts off and will not turn back on. When I depress the A/C OFF button the temperature display turns off but hot air continues to blow at the highest fan speed. Eventually the hot air will stop blowing and the stereo will turn back on and the A/C will function normally. Has anyone else experienced this problem? How can I get the dealer to reproduce the problem and repair it?

mullins87

When it does it again, drive to the dealership as quickly as possible so they can see it for themselves. Otherwise, try to determine what the conditions are when it happens, i.e. ambient temperature, playing the radio loudly/softly, long periods of driving, long periods of stop and go driving,

vince4

This is an intermittent electrical connection problem. They can be tough to find just because they usually aren't failing. However you have enough symptoms of different systems failing at the same time that a competent tech should be able to identify the likely problem area by looking at a schematic diagram. I would ask the dealer to give it to their best electrical tech and let him try to find the problem from the symptoms.

ecvc03

What do Ford/Taurus owners think of their cars? Would you still buy another one? I don't know why some ppl really like Japanese cars better.

ezaircon4jc

I have had 4 Sables. A 1986 that we traded for a 1988 with 50K. We traded the 1988 in for a 1991 with 125K. We bought a 1996 that currently has 115K. The 1991 we traded in on a 2000 Lincoln LS with just over 170K. The only major problem was the transmission that a recall covered on the 1991. The 96 still runs as well as the day we brought it home. Would I buy another? Probably not. But that is because I'm in a position now to have 2 LSes in a couple of years. Would I buy another if my situation wasn't what it is? In a heartbeat! I have had excellent service out of my 4 Sables.

vince4

It's too soon for me to say, I'm still in warranty. But I'm sure that if I had bought a Japanese car I wouldn't have had such a long list of repairs in a few years. I'm still happy with the car because I expected it to have some troubles (I'm sad to say that) when I bought it. I do think it's a pretty decent car when it comes to comfort, size, handling, mpg, etc. I bought mine from my company at 1 year old 9000 miles. I'd probably do it again.

mrdetailer

My Dad has a 1995 3.0 that has been a jewel. It has 90 + thousand on it and still runs beautifully. Just one u joint problem for significant repairs.

I've kept track of my expenses on my vehicles: 1 domestic, one Mazda which for that year has a Mazda Motor and Transmission and everything else is domestic, and one made in Japan. I was recently surprised. I have kept 4 years of repairs on my computer. Over that time the repair costs have averaged the same. They are so close as to be indistinguishable. More repairs on the domestic, but the costs are so much lower that it the imports soon make up the difference. For example. Timing belt on domestic. $150.00. Same repair on import $450. And the list goes on.

These cars were all purchased with over 60K on them so I'm talking about a history with older vehicles. My goal is to take every vehicle to 200K so I maintain rigorously.

I will probably buy my Dad's when he gets ready to sell at 125K.