Engine Flush Systems

gwerks

Today my wife took in her Civic for a regular oil
change and rotation. The service guy mentioned to
her that it would be in her best interest to have a
engine system flush ( $130.00) . With only 24,000
thousand miles on this car is it really needed or
he just blowing hot air. I heard in reality it ends
up hurting the engine is this true. I would
appreciate any input.

tonewheel

..you should have kept in your wallet (unless you've never changed your oil since you've owned the car). If you change your oil as indicated in your owners manual, you should never have to have this procedure performed.

stoner_john

A friend of mine that has a 91 Legend asked the Acura place to do an engine flush. The engine has 84k mi. on it and the previous owner did not change the oil like they should have. There is a lot of gunk in the upper engine. The service department told him that they did not do engine flushes anymore because they had too many engine failures after doing them. And at 24k your engine should be spotless inside. Just change your oil every 3000 mi. and let the detergent in the oil do its thing. It is added in so you won't have to have the engine cleaned.

guitarzan

Why did the engines fail?

guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference

Mr_Shiftright

Comoplete waste of money on a 24K engine, IMO. The only time i've ever recommend this is in the case of oil contamination, such as head gasket failure or over-rich injection system causing crankcase oil dilution.

I'd switch mechanics, too.

stoner_john

Lower bearing failure. They said they had too many customers coming back with bad rod and crank bearings. I don't know exactly what caused it but I suspect gunk was washed into the oil passages that supply the bearings with oil. Those cleaning machines are money makers, so you know they had to be giving problems if the dealer stopped using them.

guitarzan

I don't know about these machines at all. However, there is the possibility that the mechanics didn't know how to use the machine properly.

guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference

amtrackal

Over the past 20 years I use to use a ten minute flush cleaner or a heavy duty radiator cleaner and drained them within ten minutes. I then flushed out the system until the water was clear. I started to have head gasket problems on my 81 buick. I don't use the cleaners any more just empty out the old antifreeze and put in the 5 year 150K antifreeze. I have an 81 and 94 buick and use premium gas and mobile 1 in both cars. They run well and the engines stay cool. I also change the oil and filter around 3K miles.

gchernya1

If your oil looks bad and engine covered with mmm... gunk, the best way to deal with this is to use syntetic oil for a change or two. Don't worry when you see oil wery dark in a 1000 miles after an oil change, just change as usual. It will wash the engine very well.

shmang

Changing engine oil? I heard that it is good to flush your engine before change oil. (Like pour a can of gunk into the engine, idle for 5 min then drain, put new oil in) Is it good or bad, or doesn't matter? Any comment on that?

tonewheel

..you're confusing a radiator flush with engine flush. They're two different things...but a radiator flush is a good idea just before replacing the coolant. Shmang - if you change your oil regularly, there's no need to run any kind of additive whatsoever prior to draining and changing the oil.

msibille

One must assume that the purpose of an engine flush [like Gunk :-(] is to disolve and flush away deposits and, perish the thought, sludge. It would also be reasonable to assume that to do so requires a solvent which, when mixed with said crud, is lower in viscosity so as to allow it to flow out of the crevices, down into the sump and out into your drain pan.

During startup is when engine lubrication is most critical. So, here's the rub- if you use a flush, then you're putting low viscosity, low lubricity solvents in your engine oil, albeit for a short period, starting the engine, and then draining same. During the critical startup, you've impaired the lubrication system.

The above assumes that deposits are not so great as to cause sludge to break free and be pumped into an oil passage, thereby blocking it like a thrown clot.

I wouldn't use the stuff. I agree that the best you can do for your engine is the maintenance specified by mfr, and change the filter w/ each oil change. High grade lubricants (virtually any major brand with the appropriate svc grade and viscosity) and a quality filter are the way to go.

mrjeep

There are engine oil flush machines that repair facilities have that are 100%safe, the machine pumps a heated oil based detergent through the engine, lets it soak & then agitates it, flushed it into the oil pan but then vacuum extracts it & then rinses it again. The average oil filter only filters to about 30 microns, this machine gets it to 5 microns. Even if you change you oil regularly, sludge is eventually going to be there.But, there is nothing better for your car than regular oil & filter changes.

mandabpatel

I change oil every 3 to 4K miles and at least 3 to 4 times a year. First oil change after winter I add Risolin (1Qt) week before the oil change (do not over fill). I check the oil 2 weeks after the oil change and see if it turns dark. If it is then it need another quick oil change. All oils have some detergent and if required then use Marvel Myster oil or Risolin additive. I have never used harsh additives. I use any name brand cheapest oil and oil filter. Recently I get Mobil 10W-30 for $0.64/qtr from Wallmart. My Taurus87 has 163K and running good. Of course this is a Ford car so need other repairs but not engine and exhaust.

cakid60

Has anyone heard of an engine flushing machine that Saturn uses called Bilstein? Anyone know anything about it?

butch11

These franchise places work overtime to figure out new ways to get into your wallet. If they just made your wallet thinner-that would not be so bad. But I suspect their engine flush system uses a very thin oil with little lubrication value and also containing lots of detergent. A recipe for disaster. Years ago people used to say fill your engine crank case with Risolone or kerosene and let it run for a few minutes. Yeah lots of crud came out but to hear the poor engine knock and bang-good bye bearings. If the engine is gunked up, just change the oil at shorter intervals and when you change the oil-make certain the engine is fully warmed up.

reanimator1

I also used to use engine flush additives before oil changes, and thought I was doing the right thing. Later, a friend advised me that when you use those flushs, you must then clean your oilpan afterwards, before adding new oil. His premise was that all of that stuff does not drain out through oil plug, and like it was stated earlier, that flush stuff is of a lower viscosity, and formulated to dissolve sludge. This means, according to my buddy, that some of this stuff mixes with you new oil, degrading its performance. Does this make sense to anyone. It did to me. I do not use that stuff anymore. Just bought a 2000 Tiburon, and intend to change oil next week (1500 miles), run for another 1000 miles, then change to and use synthetics forever.

woodytx

I used an engine flush in a can on a Datsun 280Z with about 70K on the clock. Result: Had to get the oil pickup screen cleaned out as all that gunk (pretty hard stuff, too) flushed out and ended up clogging the oil pickup. No telling what else got clogged (Galleys, etc.).
My advice is to just keep changing the oil, and if you are going to flush it, then don't buy the cheap stuff.
I understand that the two-letter stuff sold at most high-dollar places is pretty good, though.

rafiq01

My friend told me about some product to
help keep my new car running well and
helping out the gas mileage. I think
she said its called GUMOUT and you
put it in your car (either into the
engine or gas) every 2 weeks and it
cleans out your system. Anyone know
about this product or have experience
with it?

div2

Gumout got it's start as a carb cleaner decades ago. Now they make fuel injector cleaners. Not bad stuff really, but if you always buy fresh, clean, name brand fuel you should never need to use it.

joeg26er

I was looking at all the fuel system / carb cleaners/flusher additives. The ones you add to your gas tank.

Do these work at all?

Which one works best?

My 87 Accord carbed engine has some pinging(?) when I accelerate in too high of a gear.
I have 177k miles on it and I have always used the cheapest gas in it...do I just need a timing adjust or will a combustion chamber / fuel system cleaner do better?

Thanks

div2

I'd double check the timing and the EGR system first. If it still pings, try some Techron or BG44K.

bgkanne

Engine flushes are dangerous because they can clog the pick up on the oil pump, destroying your engine. DON'T USE THEM. Change your oil frequently (preferably using a quality synthetic if you really care), use a high quality oil filter and you will never have abnormal oil related problems. Once your engine is damaged, there is no miracle cure in a can or bottle.
Gumout makes carburator and fuel injector/system cleaners which go in your fuel NOT in your oil.

mwikle

Techron(R) Concentrate works well (Chevron claims it is "Unbeatable"...and the lawyers let them say that!). Cleans entire combustion areas, not just injectors.

There are other good ones as well, but some we tested internally are little more than solvent in a bottle.

I hear BG44K is good too.

Click and Clack (PBS auto gurus) mention Techron and BG on their website.

FWIW, Chevron invented and patented the original "PEA" detergent fuel additives. The Oronite Chemical Folks sell PEA and cheaper PBA bulk fuel additives to the aftermarket, and gas retailers for use in pump gas. Some folks use better additives than others.

Generally, I personally believe, the major brands are more effectively additized to keep your engine cleaner. Disclosure: I am employed by Chevron...but Edmunds is personal gig.

adc100

Using syn oil keeps engine clean and will actually clean it up if it has deposits. When switching to synthetic oil, the oil will get darker quick if there are deposits. I'd probably change at 3000 miles the first time. Maybe less. Just an opinion. Also spring for a good filter like Mobile 1.

0patience

I agree with the Chevron stuff, I use Chevron's Delo 400 15w40 motor oil in my truck,no other oil. The Techron is good stuff. But,GM makes a product for engines that I like to use, it is called Top Engine Cleaner, it is a combustion cleaner and works pretty good.

BTW, Click and Clack have no clue. They have all these promoters telling them what to say and if they are mechanics, then either they haven't been very long or need to go back to some schooling for some of this stuff.(That is my personal opinion of them,like it or not)

div2

You are dead right about Click and Clack; they are incompetent, opinionated, buffoons- on their best day.

alcan

Alright, I'll bite. Who or what are Click and Clack? Never heard of 'em up here in North Fencepost.

div2

C&C are two so-called automotive experts who have a Saturday call-in show on National Public Radio(AKA Radio Havana). They dispense often questionable advice and opinions. For example, high horsepower cars are VERY BAD and everyone in Montana was going to die because the speed limit was changed to "reasonable and prudent". They were somewhat humorous at first but now they take themselves way too seriously. Worst of all, their advice is often in error...

0patience

And there is a whole bunch of people who swear they are gods in the automotive field. If they're geniuses in the automotive field, then I'm changing my handle to Einstein. LOL!!
It amazes me that they have the following they have and they give the most attrocious advice I have ever seen.
Alcan, I don't think Canadian radio would allow such trash on their stations.

wow, is this getting off the subject or what?LOL!!

alcan

They sound more like Frick and Frack to me. Opatience, you haven't been subjected to Canadian Content yet! OK, Mr. Moderator, I promise to get back on topic :-)

enpanne

I had my Lexus LS400 (92)serviced by a local service centre. Everything seemed fine. As an added bonus I was offered an engine shampoo. Now, 24 hours later, my car still won't start. The engine seems to want to do something but just won't turn over. The Lexus Service people won't help unless the car gets towed to them. Anyone out there have any bright ideas. By the way, I posted this question here even though engine flushing is clearly not engine shampooing.