Porsche Cayenne Hybrid

Karen_S

Take a look at Porsche's initial steps into hybrids. Tell us what you think.

First Look: Porsche Cayenne Hybrid

gagrice

It could be the first World class hybrid. Stay tuned....

xerok00l

"It could be the first World class hybrid", says the German fanboy, "because quite simply, it's German!"

gagrice

Well you have to remember that Dr Porsche built hybrid electric cars over a 100 years ago. So they have the experience.

xerok00l

Yeah sure. So tell me then, Dr. Porsche, what makes the Lexus LS600hL anything less than "World Class"?

By your logic, any car not made by Mercedes is automatically NOT "World Class" only because Mercedes made the first car. Good thinking.

gagrice

Do you mean other than the fact that the LS600h is a $125k joke? It gets worse mileage than the LS460L in real world test drives. What good can be said about that? If the Porsche does not get at least 25% better mileage than the gas only car it replaces. It will be worth very little.

Porsche engineers say that they have produced 24.4 mpg on the U.S. "FTP" city test (one of five tests used to determine EPA fuel-economy ratings), and this represents a 36 percent increase over the standard Cayenne V6. This increase suggests that the Cayenne Hybrid's city rating could rise from 14 mpg to 19 mpg.

If the hybrid gets what the Porsche people claim it will be a much better effort than that LS600h. Since when did Lexus get into the Porsche class. Not in our lifetime.

PS
What does Mercedes have to do with Porsche? Not connection.

xerok00l

First of all, the LS460L is RWD while the the LS600hL is AWD. If and when there is a LS460L AWD available THEN we can make valid comparisons to the LS600hL.

Secondly, the LS600hL is MUCH FASTER 30-50 and 50-70 than the LS460L.

Thirdly, Road and Track got 19.5mpg in the LS600hL but just 12mpg in the LS460 in their ALL-OUT, drive-like-a-maniac performance tests. That sounds like a >50% improvement to me.

And lastly, if "Porsche class" is your definition of "World class", I pity you for living in such a confined, small little world. Try going out and breathe some air some time, patient gagrice.

gagrice

I suggest you buy an LS600h and enjoy yourself. I am sure it is a nice riding vehicle. What about the 0-60 time? I notice people like to leave out info that is not adding to their argument. Are they even in the showroom yet? They were supposed to be out by June.

xerok00l

The only reason the LS600hL does not impress with its 0-60 time is because of its hybrid drivetrain disallowing a brake-torque launch (hold the brake, rev the engine to power band and then release the brake) as the engine is turned off when the car is not in motion. NO SANE OWNER in his right mind would ever do a brake torque launch (very damaging to the drivetrain mind you) in his $100k+ luxury car, basically rendering the good-on-paper 0-60 times meaningless. On a roll, the LS600hL will kill the LS460L alright.

And yes many people are already taking deliveries of the LS600hL. Go to ClubLexus.com and share their joy.

habitat1

Yeah sure. So tell me then, Dr. Porsche, what makes the Lexus LS600hL anything less than "World Class"?

Maybe because it has the driving dynamics of an oil tanker?

Seriously, I'm not sure what brought you to the Porsche Cayenne forum, but if you are here to promote Lexus, you are barking up the wrong tree and stepping in your own poop while doing it. Porsche owners generally like to drive. As do BMW and even some "lesser" brand owners, for that matter. We even know how to parallel park, all by ourselves.

Lexus has elected to prioritize luxury accutriments to the extreme and, unfortunately, to the neglect of producing a single vehicle that is the least bit exciting to drive or at its best on a road that has a curve or three in it. Not one. And that's just fine for their sedentary target market, who is probably just waking up from their midday nap over on the Lexus board. So head on over there if you want to make a point, but stop wasting your breath here.

And, for the record, I do happen to now own a Porsche 911, but I'm definitely not Dr. Porsche and this was the first and only "German" car I've ever owned. All the others have been Japanese (Acura, Honda, Nissan, Toyota). So there is no Euro-bias here. Yes, Lexus has taken a Buick style ride and wrapped it in a car that is as reliable as Old Faithful and as luxurious as the Presidential suite as the Ritz. But every one that I've driven or ridden in has put me to sleep just as effectively as that old Buick.

xerok00l

You're asking me why I brought Lexus into this thread? You should ask gagrice why he brought the ridiculous claim of "it could be the first World class hybrid" into the thread in the first place. Right, to you German fanboys, a hybrid cannot be considered "World class" until a German make makes it, while to the rest of the sane world, a quality "World class" automobile can come from any auto maker in the WORLD. And no, Germany is not equal to the World. Just because you priortize what the Germans happen to excel at doesn't mean it's the only attribute that makes for a "World class" car. Get over your mental fanboyism already.

gagrice

If anyone shows a cult like tendency it would be you. I own a Lexus LS400, do you? How can you consider Lexus World class when they are basically a car company for sale to the US market. They did not even sell Lexus in Japan until last year. They are not selling well in Japan currently. The Japanese prefer Mercedes and BMW. So your thinking is confused on what is world class. I am sure that most everywhere in the World people have heard of Porsche. Lexus is practically an unknown. Built for the wallowy ride that Americans like.

tidester

Let's keep the discussion on topic and friendly.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

xerok00l

So the fact that the LS460 won BOTH the "2007 World Car of the Year" and the "2007 International Car of the Year" awards still doesn't mean that the LS is a "World class" car? LOL give me and the world a break will you?

And the LS600h is doing EXCEEDINGLY well in Japan, having sold an astounding 5,300 units in the first 40 days, which was totally unheard of for any $120k vehicle, ever.

Again, if anyone's showing a cult-like tendency, it's plain you, euro fanboy. Both the Cayenne and LS are world-class vehicles. Denying any of them is a true sign of fanboyism.

gagrice

And the LS600h is doing EXCEEDINGLY well in Japan, having sold an astounding 5,300 units in the first 40 days, which was totally unheard of for any $120k vehicle, ever.

That is amazing! Got a link?

stever

"During the first five weeks the cars were on sale, 5,300 orders were taken, compared to a monthly sales target of 300 units."

The real number (which I haven't found) will depend on production and whether orders get cancelled and not filled by other buyers I guess. It looks like these are just the Japanese orders (hey, I'm still on my first cup of coffee - y'all read it and figure it out :shades: ).

BusinessWeek Online

xerok00l

Thanks steve.

My link is to a similar story from a different source:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=2007- 0628&ID=7100185

stever

"The 2011 Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid will be released next month! The company's first hybrid vehicle will wear a sticker price of $68,695, $21,020 more than the $47,675 the base Cayenne."

2011 Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid Hitting Dealers in November (Inside Line)

wwest

IMMHO ~300HP is more than enough for the Cayenne.

Especially considering the low end torque an electric motor makes available.

So give me a Cayenne hybrid with a N/A DFI V6 engine but with a couple of throttle body fuel injectors to keep the intake valves clean and I'll offer up a purchase deposit.

tidester

IMMHO ~300HP is more than enough for the Cayenne.

The Cayenne weighs in at about 4,600 pounds which would seem to require an abundance of horsepower. So what is the basis for your most humble opinion? Just curious!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

wwest

My '92 Jeep Cherokee Limited, RWD/AWD/4WD/4X4, seemed to get along just fine with only 190HP out of its straight six.Numerous wintertime trips to Boise and Great Falls included. And today its still going strong out on a wheat and cattle ranch in north centrel MT.

"Abundance of HP" often operates to your detriment in the very wintertime conditions, ON-ROAD conditions, for which most of us purchase an SUV with R/awd or even F/awd.

Don't know the weight but our '92 LS400, of which I remain quite pleased, has only 248HP.

That "snow mode" button.....

tidester

My '92 Jeep Cherokee Limited ...

That would be about 1400 pound lighter than the Cayenne. 30% more weight probably requires 30% more horsepower which gets you substantially closer to 300 hp.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

leffel

The new Porsche Cayenne delivery has been halted. Porsche has not given customers or dealers accurate information. The first shipment of cars scheduled for 15 November are being held in ports until an unspecified electrical problem can be resolved. Customers and dealerships are not being given timely information regarding these issues. No official word on a schedule adjustment has been made so customers are being left to fend for themselves and adjust their plans around the porsche secret.

transpower

I'm looking forward to both the Cayenne S E-Hybrid and Macan S E-Hybrid. Stay tuned!