About a month ago, I had researched everything on the autopia forum I needed for detailing my cars (black Supra and new wintergreen Outback VDC). I just finished my first attempt and thought I would report back on my results and lessons learned; any feedback to make it easier the next time is welcome. the bottom line: the cars look great and I am very pleased.
Some details:
- on washing, I used Costco wool mittens, turtle wax wash, Wizard water bandit, and a Charisma towel. I really liked the water bandit; I just used the cotten towel for final wipe off.
- I used one coat each of the Klasse twins, AIO and SG. I plan on doing a second coat tomorrow of the SG. I used about a nickel size amount of SG for about 4 sq ft (2ftX2ft). I am absolutely amazed as to how well the metallic wintergreen looks after one coat; the metallic particles seem to be leaping out of the paint.
- I really like how the Klasse does not impregnate the rubber molding; very easy to apply. I used the foam applicators that came with the Klasse kit and I really liked them. It doesn't seem like I used hardly any of the stuff to do both cars.
- I used Tanner's leather conditioner on the leather seats and followed up with the 303 protectant for the entire interior. I never figured out which was the best to use, so I used both. Looks great.
Sandy is happy again. She got the royal treatment.
The interior was detailed. Got a nice 12 amp vac in every nook and cranny, then did the dash and all plastic bits. Even cleaned the rubber cargo liner.
Then I hit the glass with Rain X. Two coats even. Then the inside glass was cleaned, and the door jambs.
The outside got a nice pressure wash, hand mitt, then rinse. Then a coat of wax. I swear she was begging for more. I should have done a 2nd coat.
I had some dog paw scratches on her, but they're gone now, thankfully. Looks great.
Of course on Saturday we leave for our beach trip, so she'll get filthy again. But at least she's got a coat of protectant on her now.
Yeah, she'll be real busy. We leave on Saturday for OBX for a week.
Then, the following weekend, I'm meeting up with my paisanos up in Pine Barrens for a little mud slinging. She's gonna get filthy. I hope that wax beads up nicely, so it's not too hard to clean!
juice is meeting up with paisan (Mike) but to call the rest of us who are going to the Pine Barrens paisanos is a stretch. ;-)
I pressure washed the car yesterday afternoon and dried it with the Absorber. I had clayed and waxed the previous wash so I didn't bother to do it again - I suspect there won't be a major detailing until after Pine Barrens and before fall vacation in mid-October. Having said that I do need to either do or have done a better detailing job. Specifically I'm noticing some streaking from the lubricant used during claying (I used Mother's clay bar and Showtime spray, not the pricier Griot's Speed Shine). The streaks still appear beneath the wax coat; again, Mother's: Pure Carnauba w/o cleaner/polish. My hood especially looks crappy with the swirl marks and stone chips (hard to avoid now with I-95 under construction in areas). I'm really tempted to go this Klasse route as it sounds like the equivalent of dipping the car in Future floor polish, at least when it comes to filling scratches and swirl marks.
How does everyone out there keep that nasty brake dust from pitting their wheels? Just normal soap and water with a brush or some type of treatment that you like? Jack
I was lucky because I ordered my wheels, and got them in the mail, so they had never been mounted. I put a nice coat of wax on the front and back, and to this day, 12k miles later, there is virtually no brake dust accumulated on it.
That's true even on the inner side, which never gets washed besides a rinse with water.
After reading all he raves about Klasse here, I gave my Forester the treatment with both products on Sunday. (The rest of you in Central TX can thank me for the rain!) Anyway, it looks good, but I have to honestly say that I'm not sure it looks any better than it did when I used NuFinish. Maybe I didn't use enough - after all the warnings, I was kind of paranoid about over-applying. Or maybe it makes more of a difference once the paint begins to oxidize. I guess the proof will be in how long it lasts. Since I don't have a garage, it's parked outside all of the time so if it lasts through to spring, I'll be a convert. If not, it's back to NuFinish.
I think with products like Klasse or Finish First, which I use, you don't really see much difference until after a second coat. Anyone in Central TX in need of more rain? ;-)
It could be that your paint was already in good condition so the application didn't make much of a difference.
In my case, my vehicle is over 3 years old. I had been using traditional waxes until now so I was impressed at how Klasse went on and off very easily and left a nice and durable shine. Previously, I'd have to invest a lot more time with traditional products to get the same kind of result.
NuFinish is also a polymer sealant so it just may be that the difference will be seen in the long run.
Did you just use the All in One, or did you do a second coat with the High Gloss Sealant Glaze? The second product is the one that is supposed to add the extra show-car-perfect shine.
Has anyone had experience with Klasse for a few years on a white car? I'm wondering about yellowing.
Some more random comments from a first time Klasse user as to why I really like it.
-one coat AIO and 2 coats of SG gives a great shine and supposedly 6 months of protection. Have not verified yet. I have washed the Supra several times since application; the shine has come back as new each time so far. Also, It really looks good on the wintergreen OB.
-The AIO totally cleared up my cloudy Supra headlights; nothing has worked before; I had actually given up.
-Easy to apply and no residue on rubber things and lettering. It took me about 25 minutes labor for a complete coat (applying and removing of AIO or SG), with about 30 minutes wait between applying and buffing. This was on the Outback.
- The stuff is pretty expensive though. The Klasse kit through Tacscar.com is 48 bucks that includes 16.9oz bottles of AIO and SG, foam applicators, and a miracle towel for buffing. However you only use about an ounce per application. I actually used only half an ounce for one application of SG for the Outback.
I don't mean to sound over zealous on the product; from other comments, Zaino might actually be better for serious detailers, but overall, it sure beats the other stuff I have used, and it was actually easy enough to be fun.
I used both products, but only did one coat of the SG. I may put another coat on the next time I wash it (which may be a while, since I think it's going to rain forever here!) I think Ken hit the nail on the head when he said that my paint is in good enough condition that it didn't make much of a difference. I didn't mean to imply that I was unhappy with the results. It looks good, and I also liked the way that it didn't leave white stuff all over the black plastic, and was easy to remove. If it holds up for 6 - 9 months as advertised, it will be worth the price.
Mike, Be careful what you wish for. After more than 6" of rain in 7 days, I'd be more than happy to let you have some! And more is on the way.......I'm about ready to go out & get some scuba gear ;>) Cin
Just got back from the Outer Banks and gave Sandy a quick wash. Needed to get all that salt and sand off of her, 'cause she did a little beach driving down in Salvo (fun!).
Looks good now. The wax job before I left was a good idea, as nothing caked on.
As if talking to a child, could someone please walk me through how best to care for the exterior of my brand new 2001 Outback Limited Wagon? As noted in the title, the paint is black and thus shows everything. I was never one to fuss over my old Honda, but want to treat my Outback right from the beginning. Thanks everyone.
First, congratulations on your new Outback. The blacl color is indeed very demanding, but also rewards you with incredible beauty and sharpness if you take care of it. The best way to protect it is to wash and wax it on a regular basis. When waxing, make sure surface is very clean, otherwise you'll scratch the finish with small dirt particles.
As for car wash, it seems you can use almost all major brands. When it comes to wax, opinions differ greatly.
You can find a great variety or opinions/suggestions on the Maintenance and Repair board. Check the threads "Store bought waxes" and "Zaino care experience".
My personal preference is polymer-based waxes vs traditional carnauba wax, but there are pro's and con's to both.
On black cars, I've seen very good results from using Klasse products. Some suggest to buy a cheaper alternative called Crystal-Glo. Some folks swear by Zaino, although I personally did not have much luck with it. Yet others are very happy with Zymol and NuFinish products. Add to this die-hard fans of Meguire's and 3M products, all reporting beautiful results and ease of use.
Welcome to the club and please post your experience with waxing your new beautiful Outback!
As a owner of a black Forester S and having detailing OCD, I feel I can help you.
First a primer on paint: The paint job on your vehicle actually consists of the paint itself, but also a thin transparent layer called clearcoat. The clearcoat is there to protect the paint. The key to keeping your vehicle looking great is to prolong the life of the clearcoat.
From day-to-day use, various bits of dirt and contaminants make it onto your clearcoat. If left on long enough, the dirt will eventually bond to your clearcoat making it dull and rough. Even worse, certain things like bird droppings and acid rain can eat through the clearcoat and permanently damage the paint underneath.
Like Kate mentioned, frequent washing and waxing helps to prevent this build up.
Waxes or sealants (sometimes called synthetic wax) help protect your clearcoat by serving as an extra barrier to the elements. The benefits of a regular wax are that it can fill light scratches in your clearcoat and produce a deep shine. The benefits of synthetic waxes are that it's easy to apply and it's much more durable than regular wax.
Since your car is brand new, I highly suggest putting on a layer of wax/sealant ASAP. There are many choices of products out there. Some work better than others. I've tried many, many brands of waxes and I've found that the Klasse sealant that Kate mentioned is the easiest to use and also lasts the longest. It also produces a very nice shine. Unfortunately, Klasse can't be bought in a store and is a little expensive. I bought mine at:
I've also found Zymol (available at most auto stores) to be very good on black paint. It's easy to apply, but doesn't last very long.
Here are a couple tips:
- Buy any kind of carwash liquid. NEVER use dish detergent.
- Use a wash mit (preferably natural wool) to minimize scratches on your paint
- Wash your vehicle once a week if possible
- Wax your vehicle once every 3 months if possible
- Use clean terry cloth towels to wipe your vehicle down
- Chamois cloths are a great extra to have to dry your car
- Always wash and wax in the shade when your car paint is cool
- Buy a bottle of detailing spray (ie. Meguiar's Quik Detailer Mist) and keep it in your vehicle so you can remove bird droppings and tree sap promptly
For your first wax, I suggest you follow my tips and thoroughly wash your car first. If you're using a synthetic wax, you'll need to make sure that there is no previous wax (ie. from the dealer) first. Wax will prevent synthetic wax from bonding to your paint. If you're using Klasse, the All-in-one product will do the trick. Next, follow up with the high gloss sealant. The next time you wash your car (hopefully in a week), apply one more coat of the sealant to get even better protection.
Okay, I feel like I'm writing a book so I'll stop for now, but please feel free to post any questions.
Good luck and, most importantly, have fun. Black cars do show off dirt more easily, but nothing shines and looks better than a properly maintained black finish.
Shana, I went through the same learning experience you are starting; I spent lots of time on autopia.com to understand.
I agree with Ken's comments, but would add a couple of lessons learned and suggestions.
- I used the Wizard water bandit, a synthetic chamois, which is amazing for rapidly removing water which is really necessary for a black car. That plus one plush cotton towel for final dry makes it fun. Can be bought at Kleanride.com.
- Use foam applicators for applying wax, applying in back and forth direction, not circular.
- Use good microfiber towels for wax removal
- Don't forget the interior. On the advice of the other forum, I bought 303 protectant and have been very pleased.
- I did go the Klasse route and have been very pleased with the ongoing results on my black car after many washes. Klasse is a 2 step process, using AIO first and then adding SG with one or more layers. I personally found it quite easy and fun to apply and remove; it took about 30 minutes for any one complete application. I bought it from tacscar.com; the kit is about 47 bucks which includes both products, foam applicators, and a microfiber towel. I used less than an ounce of stuff (16.9 oz per container) per application, so the KLasse should last at least several years.
It did cost me about $100 for everything, but it has been fun and rewarding.
If you go the Klasse route it seems better to buy both the All in One and the High Gloss Sealant.
properautocare.com has excellent instructions for applying Klasse by Hand. That way you can avoid possible swirl mark errors.
Klasse is the only synthetic that actually hides small scratches like a natural wax.
Personally I use Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze, or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze followed by Meguiar's #26 Hard yellow liquid then Paste on the horizontal surfaces for my White Subaru, and 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax for my Sunrise Red Mazda.
3M holds up better in a car wash and looks just as good as Meguiar's.
If you use a machine, get Meguiar's soft foam pads. It avoids swirl marks better.
Kate, Ken, Mike - thanks for taking the time to share with me your tips for maintaining my black Outback. I live in the Los Angeles area, and while we don't often have to contend with rain, etc.. I'm finding my most annoying foe to be lawn sprinklers! It seems they find my car wherever I park around my house. The car had a wax on it from the dealer, but hard water spot really stick on the clearcoat. We gave it a gentle bath last night and dried it with a chamois. (I ordered the Wizard water bandit as well). Unfortunately, I still have residual water spots. So, now I'm unsure whether taking it through a car wash here would help. I certainly don't want to be a slave to dealing with water hitting the car - I mean, if that's my biggest problem in life then I can deal. I follow up on your other advice.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area so I'm also rain-free for the majority of the year.
Sometimes water spots need a little more coaxing than a wash to remove. The minerals in the water dry onto the paint/wax and can be stubborn. Try a cleaner/wax -- that should do it.
Since you live in a warmer climate, I'd recommend a synthetic wax even more. Synthetic waxes stand up to heat better so it'll stay on your vehicle longer. You probably could get by with having to wax your vehicle once every 6 months.
A nice little gizmo to have is the California Car Duster. It looks like a red mop on plastic handle. The Duster is great for removing dust from your car in dry climates.
After washing, use a spray like Meguiar's Quick Wax, or Final Finish. Almost every manufacturer of car cleaners makes some type of spray to increase the shine after washing.
It only takes 5-10 minutes to do and will remove those hard water stains.
Carnauba wax like Mothers or Meguiars #26 Hard Yellow will give the best protection against hard water in my experience. Utah is also pretty dry.
I live in sunny CA too (bay area). Yes, water spots are hard to remove. This is what I suggest you to do:
1. Wash with the Dawn dishwashing detergent. You shouldn't use it often, as it's really strong, but it will do a good job removing dealer's wax which is usually pretty bad anyway. 2. Rinse really well, dry using California Car Blade and chamois or large cotton towels. 3. Work all the painted surfaces using automotive clay bar. Most people prefer Mother's or Eraser brand. I can attest from my own experience that the claying is a really crucial step. Only clay can remove some of contaminants embedded in the paint -- and even brand new cars can have plenty of junk in the paint. Remember, the better you clean the surface, the less is your chance to scratch it when polishing. 4. Wash car with Dawn again and rinse generously. Dry it well. I'd be surprised if If you still have water spots, but check carefully. Work remaining spots with clay bar again. If it still does not help then your only option remains to use some very mild polishing wax -- it can be a cleaner-wax or some mildly abrasive glaze like 3M. But chances are, you won't need a glaze. 5. After you dawned-clayed-dawned, your car is well-prepped to get a royal wax treatment. Any good wax will stick to the surface of the prepped car much better and will look much better too. Try Klasse or some good 3M stuff, or Zaino. Note that you need to apply a wax on a very clean surface, otherwise spots and dirt can get trapped under the wax layer.
If you don't mind all this work -- which I personally find relaxing and fun -- you'll be rewarded with a great looking Outback, and your paint will be well-protected too.
Believe me, claying really helps. When I was selling my 9-yr old Subaru Loyale (which was never garaged, and had its share of bad carwash machines), every buyer commented on a great-looking paint. It was so smooth and shiny that people were asking if car was recently repainted, but no it was original factory paint. Of course, it sold for asking price :-)
I went horse riding in Bryce Canyon last Saturday. Had to relieve some tension. The Peekaboo trail is an incredible ride.
Anyway, back on subject. I drove the car with 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste, and it got caught in a rainstorm. Now desert rains are really dirty. They usually leave a white residue on any surface. But this time the drops just flew off of the car. When I got up the next morning, expecting to have to do a Quick Detail, all I had to do was run the California Duster over the surface.
PS. I've washed it three times in the carwash and it still acts new. This finish appears to be both beautiful and sturdy.
I am in Bay Area. I use Klasse and will not use anything else. It is good and easy to apply. Also, the hardest thing about this area is washing out all those bugs. If you have Klasse they all wipe off very easily and it is extremely easy to wash car. I have done a few waxes on it in the last 8 months. It is so easy and works so great that I do it every so often even though it might not be needed as often.
Also, do the wheels with Klasse and the brake dust will wash off without any chemicals every time.
Well I think my poor GT must be in shock, due to the prolonged dry weather in Ottawa this year I literally have not had to wash him once.
On the relatively few days that we had rain I did not have to go anywhere so he sat cosy under the car cover, a quick wipe with the California car duster and he was spotless again, thats all about to change given Ottawa fall and winter.
While one half of me is looking forward to the inherent safety and stability of AWD. I have to confess that the OCD. half of me hates the thought of seeing my friend covered in salt for most of the winter it is pretty hard to wash a car given that the temperature is 30 below centigrade for a lot of the winter.
Ah well, I will just have to grin and take it my wife says don,t even think about suggesting buying a winter clunker, she knows me very well, Ha! Ha!.
Titans is the nickname of our local minor league hockey team; see http://www.trentontitans.com . Great logo and colors (steel blue, red, black, white) that recall Trenton's long-ago steel-making heyday.
Own a 96 Legacy and just today drove a 2002 Legacy GT, Outback SUS Limited, Impreza RS 2.5 and a Jeep Liberty. It's narrowed down to the Outback vs the Legacy. Love the H6 in the SUS but need to convince myself it is worth the extra $$$ over a Legacy 5 speed. Anyway, what is the talk about claying a car? I never heard of this in the western NY area. Can I do this to my 6 yr old Leg???
Dave! With name like this you HAVE to own not just 1 but 2 Subarus!
On claying. It's a very useful process and good for your Legacy finish. Claying 6 yr old Legacy is a good idea because usually finish accumulates tons of junk by that time. You need to buy a clay bar in autosupply store (Mother's Gold brand is popular one), or you can mail-order one (www.eraser.com). It's usually packaged with some detailer's spray (lubricator).
First, you wash the car very thoroughly: if you clay over dirty surface, you'll contaminate the clay bar and can damage the finish.
Then you spray the surface with lubricator (1/4 panel at a time) and rub the clay bar over it. It will be making some sort of whispering sound, collecting all embedded dirt from your finish. You'll be amazed how much invisible junk is stuck to the paint. Rub the area until whispering disappears. It means the bar collected all the junk.
Stretch the bar and re-fold it. Spray another 1/4 panel and continue the process until all car is done (I usually leave roof out though).
Wash car thoroughly again, dry it and apply your favorite wax. You'll be rewarded with the smoothest and shiniest surface possible.
Repeat claying every 1 or 2 year. No need to clay more often than once per year. One bar usually is good for 3 claying. NEVER use the clay bar after it was dropped on the ground. It gets too contaminated and damages the finish after that.
Kate Thanks for the information on claying. I'll try it on my current Subie to see what I get. I have some great Auto super stores close by so I assume I'll find what I need local Our current Subie is a Legacy wagon which only holds my twin Rotties if I fold the rear seat down. Vehicles we are considering now are sedans so there is not much chance my babies will ever find themselves in this one. They will just need to settle for cruising in our Dodge G Caravan... again with the rear seat removed!!
A couple of additions. It is www.erazer.com and has both a lubridating spray and a nice clay.
I clay 2 times a year just before I glaze. That way the microscopic particles that can cause spider lines are minimized. It is much easier and faster the second time.
I just cleaned the inside of my windshield with this stuff and it's terrific! I can't believe how much clearer my view is, even at night, considering the outside is not clean.
Not sure about the name, it's made by Stoner and I got it at Aid Auto.
My only caveats are: try not to let it drip on your hands (maybe mine are sensitive) and make sure you rub it off completely.
I thought I would like to share my last few years of experience with clay bars and quick detailers. They are related since the quick detailers are used as a lubricating agent for the clay bars.
Clay bars can actually be purchased in different grades from auto paint supply stores. The type I am speaking of here is the mildest one -- the overspray remover. These were originally designed to remove the paint airbrush slopover when a car was repainted. However detailers have used them for years to create a mirror surface before a car show. It has been found to be the only efficient way to remove pollutants from a paint finish such as sap, bird droppings, rail dust, sand and salt that have embedded into the paint finish. They have only recently become popular for consumers.
I have used these clay bars.
Meguiars Body Shop Professional Overspray Clay. This is a white natural clay. It stretches fairly easily once warmed in the hands, shows the accumulated dirt well, and is easy to fold in and expose a clean surface.
Meguiars Clay Bar with a Quick Detailer Kit (Autozone $9.99) Frankly it looked and performed similar to the professional overspray clay. There was no appreciable price difference. The only real disadvantage was that it was impossible to see if used on a white car. This is the least expensive all-in one deal.
I purchased Mothers California Gold Paint Saving System ($19.95). It had not only the clay, but Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer, and a small bottle of Mother's Cleaner Wax. Luckly it was a bright yellow color. This is clearly an artificial clay. It has a definite plastic texture. This is harder to warm up. Sometimes it will strink after stretching, so make it a little larger than you want and you'll be happy. It is not quite as easy to fold into a clean surface as the natural clay.
Erazer Surface Cleaning Material. This had a good cost advantage. From www.autofanatics.com for 17.95 you can purchase a kit that has 2 bars instead of the 1 bar Mother's came with, along with 16 oz of the Lubricating Agent and Gloss Enhancement Spray and 4 ounces of Acrylic Paint Protector. Its look and performance were identical to the Mother's Clay. The kit form makes it very economical.
In order for the clay to work correctly it has to have a lubricating agent. Some use Soap and water, but I use Quick Detailers for consistency and ease of use. Here are the ones I used when claying.
Meguiar's Quick Detailer, and Meguiar's #40 Final Inspection. The Quick detailer has a wide spray on the bottle. This was the best for applying before rubbing the surface with clay. Quick Detailer does contain a little carnauba wax, Final Finish does not. These two are characterized by their "high lubricity" to use Meguiar's words. They appear to be more slippery and consume less product. However, they are also a little bit harder to get a dry surface when wiping. Both have a nice, clean smell. Shine is excellent. Meguiars does not use silicone.
Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer. This had a standard spray bottle, and was not as slippery as Meguiars. This honestly was not a problem until running into trouble areas. Then it consumed a lot of liquid to get the surface clean. Mother's wouldn't disclose whether they used silicone or not. Application of waxes after using it has not been a problem.
Turtle Wax Bug and Tar Remover, and Emerald Series Permium Detailer. The first product removed bug stuff pretty well, Tar, not so good. both work fine as a lubricating agent.
Erazer Lubricating Agent and Gloss Enhancer spray. This is the one that stands out of the crowd for me. On a dirty surface this cleans very quickly, dries easily and leaves and excellent shine. Slightly better than the others. The lubricating agent contains more alcohol so it dries quicker. Just work a smaller area at a time. This is very easy to dry the surface with this agent after using the clay. Erazer doesn't use silicone.
Silicone in a quick detailer may produce frog eyes (hard water stains) if caught in the rain.
Bottom line. Generally all of these products worked well. Rough surfaces, sometimes after years of neglect, would again become showroom slick and mirror smooth. The differences between the products is not significant enough to worry about, it's rather a matter of preference and cost.
BRAVO! Ray, You da man! Very timely. After reading Kate's experience with Mother's, I decided to clay the 93 Civic (which doesn't get as much TLC as the GT). Thanks, man.
Comments
Cheers Pat.
Cheers Pat.
Some details:
- on washing, I used Costco wool mittens, turtle wax wash, Wizard water bandit, and a Charisma towel. I really liked the water bandit; I just used the cotten towel for final wipe off.
- I used one coat each of the Klasse twins, AIO and SG. I plan on doing a second coat tomorrow of the SG. I used about a nickel size amount of SG for about 4 sq ft (2ftX2ft). I am absolutely amazed as to how well the metallic wintergreen looks after one coat; the metallic particles seem to be leaping out of the paint.
- I really like how the Klasse does not impregnate the rubber molding; very easy to apply. I used the foam applicators that came with the Klasse kit and I really liked them. It doesn't seem like I used hardly any of the stuff to do both cars.
- I used Tanner's leather conditioner on the leather seats and followed up with the 303 protectant for the entire interior. I never figured out which was the best to use, so I used both. Looks great.
Mike
..Mike
The interior was detailed. Got a nice 12 amp vac in every nook and cranny, then did the dash and all plastic bits. Even cleaned the rubber cargo liner.
Then I hit the glass with Rain X. Two coats even. Then the inside glass was cleaned, and the door jambs.
The outside got a nice pressure wash, hand mitt, then rinse. Then a coat of wax. I swear she was begging for more. I should have done a 2nd coat.
I had some dog paw scratches on her, but they're gone now, thankfully. Looks great.
Of course on Saturday we leave for our beach trip, so she'll get filthy again. But at least she's got a coat of protectant on her now.
-juice
Are you going back to the Outer Banks again? Take some more photos!
Ken
Then, the following weekend, I'm meeting up with my paisanos up in Pine Barrens for a little mud slinging. She's gonna get filthy. I hope that wax beads up nicely, so it's not too hard to clean!
-juice
I pressure washed the car yesterday afternoon and dried it with the Absorber. I had clayed and waxed the previous wash so I didn't bother to do it again - I suspect there won't be a major detailing until after Pine Barrens and before fall vacation in mid-October. Having said that I do need to either do or have done a better detailing job. Specifically I'm noticing some streaking from the lubricant used during claying (I used Mother's clay bar and Showtime spray, not the pricier Griot's Speed Shine). The streaks still appear beneath the wax coat; again, Mother's: Pure Carnauba w/o cleaner/polish. My hood especially looks crappy with the swirl marks and stone chips (hard to avoid now with I-95 under construction in areas). I'm really tempted to go this Klasse route as it sounds like the equivalent of dipping the car in Future floor polish, at least when it comes to filling scratches and swirl marks.
Ed (of course, it's pouring rain here right now)
Weather men actually call me to help determine their forecasts. "You washed it today? 100% chance of rain!"
-juice
I was lucky because I ordered my wheels, and got them in the mail, so they had never been mounted. I put a nice coat of wax on the front and back, and to this day, 12k miles later, there is virtually no brake dust accumulated on it.
That's true even on the inner side, which never gets washed besides a rinse with water.
-juice
Anyone in Central TX in need of more rain? ;-)
It could be that your paint was already in good condition so the application didn't make much of a difference.
In my case, my vehicle is over 3 years old. I had been using traditional waxes until now so I was impressed at how Klasse went on and off very easily and left a nice and durable shine. Previously, I'd have to invest a lot more time with traditional products to get the same kind of result.
NuFinish is also a polymer sealant so it just may be that the difference will be seen in the long run.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Has anyone had experience with Klasse for a few years on a white car? I'm wondering about yellowing.
-one coat AIO and 2 coats of SG gives a great shine and supposedly 6 months of protection. Have not verified yet. I have washed the Supra several times since application; the shine has come back as new each time so far. Also, It really looks good on the wintergreen OB.
-The AIO totally cleared up my cloudy Supra headlights; nothing has worked before; I had actually given up.
-Easy to apply and no residue on rubber things and lettering. It took me about 25 minutes labor for a complete coat (applying and removing of AIO or SG), with about 30 minutes wait between applying and buffing. This was on the Outback.
- The stuff is pretty expensive though. The Klasse kit through Tacscar.com is 48 bucks that includes 16.9oz bottles of AIO and SG, foam applicators, and a miracle towel for buffing. However you only use about an ounce per application. I actually used only half an ounce for one application of SG for the Outback.
I don't mean to sound over zealous on the product; from other comments, Zaino might actually be better for serious detailers, but overall, it sure beats the other stuff I have used, and it was actually easy enough to be fun.
Mike
Mike
Be careful what you wish for. After more than 6" of rain in 7 days, I'd be more than happy to let you have some! And more is on the way.......I'm about ready to go out & get some scuba gear ;>)
Cin
Just got back from the Outer Banks and gave Sandy a quick wash. Needed to get all that salt and sand off of her, 'cause she did a little beach driving down in Salvo (fun!).
Looks good now. The wax job before I left was a good idea, as nothing caked on.
-juice
As for car wash, it seems you can use almost all major brands. When it comes to wax, opinions differ greatly.
You can find a great variety or opinions/suggestions on the Maintenance and Repair board. Check the threads "Store bought waxes" and "Zaino care experience".
My personal preference is polymer-based waxes vs traditional carnauba wax, but there are pro's and con's to both.
On black cars, I've seen very good results from using Klasse products. Some suggest to buy a cheaper alternative called Crystal-Glo. Some folks swear by Zaino, although I personally did not have much luck with it. Yet others are very happy with Zymol and NuFinish products. Add to this die-hard fans of Meguire's and 3M products, all reporting beautiful results and ease of use.
Welcome to the club and please post your experience with waxing your new beautiful Outback!
As a owner of a black Forester S and having detailing OCD, I feel I can help you.
First a primer on paint: The paint job on your vehicle actually consists of the paint itself, but also a thin transparent layer called clearcoat. The clearcoat is there to protect the paint. The key to keeping your vehicle looking great is to prolong the life of the clearcoat.
From day-to-day use, various bits of dirt and contaminants make it onto your clearcoat. If left on long enough, the dirt will eventually bond to your clearcoat making it dull and rough. Even worse, certain things like bird droppings and acid rain can eat through the clearcoat and permanently damage the paint underneath.
Like Kate mentioned, frequent washing and waxing helps to prevent this build up.
Waxes or sealants (sometimes called synthetic wax) help protect your clearcoat by serving as an extra barrier to the elements. The benefits of a regular wax are that it can fill light scratches in your clearcoat and produce a deep shine. The benefits of synthetic waxes are that it's easy to apply and it's much more durable than regular wax.
Since your car is brand new, I highly suggest putting on a layer of wax/sealant ASAP. There are many choices of products out there. Some work better than others. I've tried many, many brands of waxes and I've found that the Klasse sealant that Kate mentioned is the easiest to use and also lasts the longest. It also produces a very nice shine. Unfortunately, Klasse can't be bought in a store and is a little expensive. I bought mine at:
http://www.properautocare.com/klasse.html
I've also found Zymol (available at most auto stores) to be very good on black paint. It's easy to apply, but doesn't last very long.
Here are a couple tips:
- Buy any kind of carwash liquid. NEVER use dish detergent.
- Use a wash mit (preferably natural wool) to minimize scratches on your paint
- Wash your vehicle once a week if possible
- Wax your vehicle once every 3 months if possible
- Use clean terry cloth towels to wipe your vehicle down
- Chamois cloths are a great extra to have to dry your car
- Always wash and wax in the shade when your car paint is cool
- Buy a bottle of detailing spray (ie. Meguiar's Quik Detailer Mist) and keep it in your vehicle so you can remove bird droppings and tree sap promptly
For your first wax, I suggest you follow my tips and thoroughly wash your car first. If you're using a synthetic wax, you'll need to make sure that there is no previous wax (ie. from the dealer) first. Wax will prevent synthetic wax from bonding to your paint. If you're using Klasse, the All-in-one product will do the trick. Next, follow up with the high gloss sealant. The next time you wash your car (hopefully in a week), apply one more coat of the sealant to get even better protection.
Okay, I feel like I'm writing a book so I'll stop for now, but please feel free to post any questions.
Good luck and, most importantly, have fun. Black cars do show off dirt more easily, but nothing shines and looks better than a properly maintained black finish.
Ken
Don
I went through the same learning experience you are starting; I spent lots of time on autopia.com to understand.
I agree with Ken's comments, but would add a couple of lessons learned and suggestions.
- I used the Wizard water bandit, a synthetic chamois, which is amazing for rapidly removing water which is really necessary for a black car. That plus one plush cotton towel for final dry makes it fun. Can be bought at Kleanride.com.
- Use foam applicators for applying wax, applying in back and forth direction, not circular.
- Use good microfiber towels for wax removal
- Don't forget the interior. On the advice of the other forum, I bought 303 protectant and have been very pleased.
- I did go the Klasse route and have been very pleased with the ongoing results on my black car after many washes. Klasse is a 2 step process, using AIO first and then adding SG with one or more layers. I personally found it quite easy and fun to apply and remove; it took about 30 minutes for any one complete application. I bought it from tacscar.com; the kit is about 47 bucks which includes both products, foam applicators, and a microfiber towel. I used less than an ounce of stuff (16.9 oz per container) per application, so the KLasse should last at least several years.
It did cost me about $100 for everything, but it has been fun and rewarding.
Good luck,
Mike
I've found the microfiber applicators to also be very good for applying wax.
Buying all these products might seem like a big cash outlay, but I believe it makes a difference in the long run.
Ken
http://klassedirect.com/klasexprod.html
The quart sizes are a relative bargain.
If you go the Klasse route it seems better to buy both the All in One and the High Gloss Sealant.
properautocare.com has excellent instructions for applying Klasse by Hand. That way you can avoid possible swirl mark errors.
Klasse is the only synthetic that actually hides small scratches like a natural wax.
Personally I use Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze, or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze followed by Meguiar's #26 Hard yellow liquid then Paste on the horizontal surfaces for my White Subaru, and 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax for my Sunrise Red Mazda.
3M holds up better in a car wash and looks just as good as Meguiar's.
If you use a machine, get Meguiar's soft foam pads. It avoids swirl marks better.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area so I'm also rain-free for the majority of the year.
Sometimes water spots need a little more coaxing than a wash to remove. The minerals in the water dry onto the paint/wax and can be stubborn. Try a cleaner/wax -- that should do it.
Since you live in a warmer climate, I'd recommend a synthetic wax even more. Synthetic waxes stand up to heat better so it'll stay on your vehicle longer. You probably could get by with having to wax your vehicle once every 6 months.
A nice little gizmo to have is the California Car Duster. It looks like a red mop on plastic handle. The Duster is great for removing dust from your car in dry climates.
Ken
It only takes 5-10 minutes to do and will remove those hard water stains.
Carnauba wax like Mothers or Meguiars #26 Hard Yellow will give the best protection against hard water in my experience. Utah is also pretty dry.
1. Wash with the Dawn dishwashing detergent. You shouldn't use it often, as it's really strong, but it will do a good job removing dealer's wax which is usually pretty bad anyway.
2. Rinse really well, dry using California Car Blade and chamois or large cotton towels.
3. Work all the painted surfaces using automotive clay bar. Most people prefer Mother's or Eraser brand. I can attest from my own experience that the claying is a really crucial step. Only clay can remove some of contaminants embedded in the paint -- and even brand new cars can have plenty of junk in the paint. Remember, the better you clean the surface, the less is your chance to scratch it when polishing.
4. Wash car with Dawn again and rinse generously. Dry it well. I'd be surprised if If you still have water spots, but check carefully. Work remaining spots with clay bar again. If it still does not help then your only option remains to use some very mild polishing wax -- it can be a cleaner-wax or some mildly abrasive glaze like 3M. But chances are, you won't need a glaze.
5. After you dawned-clayed-dawned, your car is well-prepped to get a royal wax treatment. Any good wax will stick to the surface of the prepped car much better and will look much better too. Try Klasse or some good 3M stuff, or Zaino. Note that you need to apply a wax on a very clean surface, otherwise spots and dirt can get trapped under the wax layer.
If you don't mind all this work -- which I personally find relaxing and fun -- you'll be rewarded with a great looking Outback, and your paint will be well-protected too.
Believe me, claying really helps. When I was selling my 9-yr old Subaru Loyale (which was never garaged, and had its share of bad carwash machines), every buyer commented on a great-looking paint. It was so smooth and shiny that people were asking if car was recently repainted, but no it was original factory paint. Of course, it sold for asking price :-)
Anyway, back on subject. I drove the car with 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste, and it got caught in a rainstorm. Now desert rains are really dirty. They usually leave a white residue on any surface. But this time the drops just flew off of the car. When I got up the next morning, expecting to have to do a Quick Detail, all I had to do was run the California Duster over the surface.
PS. I've washed it three times in the carwash and it still acts new. This finish appears to be both beautiful and sturdy.
I am in Bay Area. I use Klasse and will not use anything else. It is good and easy to apply. Also, the hardest thing about this area is washing out all those bugs. If you have Klasse they all wipe off very easily and it is extremely easy to wash car. I have done a few waxes on it in the last 8 months. It is so easy and works so great that I do it every so often even though it might not be needed as often.
Also, do the wheels with Klasse and the brake dust will wash off without any chemicals every time.
Go Klasse and drive in Class.
On the relatively few days that we had rain I did not have to go anywhere so he sat cosy under the car cover, a quick wipe with the California car duster and he was spotless again, thats all about to change given Ottawa fall and winter.
While one half of me is looking forward to the inherent safety and stability of AWD. I have to confess that the OCD. half of me hates the thought of seeing my friend covered in salt for most of the winter it is pretty hard to wash a car given that the temperature is 30 below centigrade for a lot of the winter.
Ah well, I will just have to grin and take it my wife says don,t even think about suggesting buying a winter clunker, she knows me very well, Ha! Ha!.
Cheers Pat.
I am going to Christen him the Titan given that his coat is Titanium I think this is an apt name.
Cheers Pat.
Ross
-juice
ed
Cheers Pat.
It's narrowed down to the Outback vs the Legacy.
Love the H6 in the SUS but need to convince myself it is worth the extra $$$ over a Legacy 5 speed.
Anyway, what is the talk about claying a car?
I never heard of this in the western NY area.
Can I do this to my 6 yr old Leg???
On claying. It's a very useful process and good for your Legacy finish. Claying 6 yr old Legacy is a good idea because usually finish accumulates tons of junk by that time. You need to buy a clay bar in autosupply store (Mother's Gold brand is popular one), or you can mail-order one (www.eraser.com). It's usually packaged with some detailer's spray (lubricator).
First, you wash the car very thoroughly: if you clay over dirty surface, you'll contaminate the clay bar and can damage the finish.
Then you spray the surface with lubricator (1/4 panel at a time) and rub the clay bar over it. It will be making some sort of whispering sound, collecting all embedded dirt from your finish. You'll be amazed how much invisible junk is stuck to the paint. Rub the area until whispering disappears. It means the bar collected all the junk.
Stretch the bar and re-fold it. Spray another 1/4 panel and continue the process until all car is done (I usually leave roof out though).
Wash car thoroughly again, dry it and apply your favorite wax. You'll be rewarded with the smoothest and shiniest surface possible.
Repeat claying every 1 or 2 year. No need to clay more often than once per year. One bar usually is good for 3 claying. NEVER use the clay bar after it was dropped on the ground. It gets too contaminated and damages the finish after that.
Thanks for the information on claying.
I'll try it on my current Subie to see what I get.
I have some great Auto super stores close by so I assume I'll find what I need local
Our current Subie is a Legacy wagon which only holds my twin Rotties if I fold the rear seat down.
Vehicles we are considering now are sedans so there is not much chance my babies will ever find themselves in this one.
They will just need to settle for cruising in our Dodge G Caravan... again with the rear seat removed!!
We joke that most Subaru owners are named Dave, and indeed we've had a Dave Chen, Dave Zartmen, W. Dave B, etc. Too many to list.
Welcome to the Crew.
-juice
-juice
I clay 2 times a year just before I glaze. That way the microscopic particles that can cause spider lines are minimized. It is much easier and faster the second time.
Not sure about the name, it's made by Stoner and I got it at Aid Auto.
My only caveats are: try not to let it drip on your hands (maybe mine are sensitive) and make sure you rub it off completely.
Clay bars can actually be purchased in different grades from auto paint supply stores. The type I am speaking of here is the mildest one -- the overspray remover. These were originally designed to remove the paint airbrush slopover when a car was repainted. However detailers have used them for years to create a mirror surface before a car show. It has been found to be the only efficient way to remove pollutants from a paint finish such as sap, bird droppings, rail dust, sand and salt that have embedded into the paint finish. They have only recently become popular for consumers.
I have used these clay bars.
Meguiars Body Shop Professional Overspray Clay. This is a white natural clay. It stretches fairly easily once warmed in the hands, shows the accumulated dirt well, and is easy to fold in and expose a clean surface.
Meguiars Clay Bar with a Quick Detailer Kit (Autozone $9.99) Frankly it looked and performed similar to the professional overspray clay. There was no appreciable price difference. The only real disadvantage was that it was impossible to see if used on a white car. This is the least expensive all-in one deal.
I purchased Mothers California Gold Paint Saving System ($19.95). It had not only the clay, but Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer, and a small bottle of Mother's Cleaner Wax. Luckly it was a bright yellow color. This is clearly an artificial clay. It has a definite plastic texture. This is harder to warm up. Sometimes it will strink after stretching, so make it a little larger than you want and you'll be happy. It is not quite as easy to fold into a clean surface as the natural clay.
Erazer Surface Cleaning Material. This had a good cost advantage. From www.autofanatics.com for 17.95 you can purchase a kit that has 2 bars instead of the 1 bar Mother's came with, along with 16 oz of the Lubricating Agent and Gloss Enhancement Spray and 4 ounces of Acrylic Paint Protector. Its look and performance were identical to the Mother's Clay. The kit form makes it very economical.
In order for the clay to work correctly it has to have a lubricating agent. Some use Soap and water, but I use Quick Detailers for consistency and ease of use. Here are the ones I used when claying.
Meguiar's Quick Detailer, and Meguiar's #40 Final Inspection. The Quick detailer has a wide spray on the bottle. This was the best for applying before rubbing the surface with clay. Quick Detailer does contain a little carnauba wax, Final Finish does not. These two are characterized by their "high lubricity" to use Meguiar's words. They appear to be more slippery and consume less product. However, they are also a little bit harder to get a dry surface when wiping. Both have a nice, clean smell. Shine is excellent. Meguiars does not use silicone.
Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer. This had a standard spray bottle, and was not as slippery as Meguiars. This honestly was not a problem until running into trouble areas. Then it consumed a lot of liquid to get the surface clean. Mother's wouldn't disclose whether they used silicone or not. Application of waxes after using it has not been a problem.
Turtle Wax Bug and Tar Remover, and Emerald Series Permium Detailer. The first product removed bug stuff pretty well, Tar, not so good. both work fine as a lubricating agent.
Erazer Lubricating Agent and Gloss Enhancer spray. This is the one that stands out of the crowd for me. On a dirty surface this cleans very quickly, dries easily and leaves and excellent shine. Slightly better than the others. The lubricating agent contains more alcohol so it dries quicker. Just work a smaller area at a time. This is very easy to dry the surface with this agent after using the clay. Erazer doesn't use silicone.
Silicone in a quick detailer may produce frog eyes (hard water stains) if caught in the rain.
Bottom line. Generally all of these products worked well. Rough surfaces, sometimes after years of neglect, would again become showroom slick and mirror smooth. The differences between the products is not significant enough to worry about, it's rather a matter of preference and cost.
..Mike
..Mike