Subaru Legacy: Typical high-mileage repairs?
We have a 1992 Legacy AWD wagon with 175,000
miles, which is still reliable and in generally
good shape. We have done the usual oil changes
every 3-4,000 miles, and normal preventative
maintenance such as timing belt replacement and
brake jobs every 60K or so. However, we did have to
rebuild the automatic transmission at 170,000
miles, which by many standards is a good track
record. Now the center differential / clutch pack
is feeling tight during sharp turns (at low speed
of course). - This could be another expensive
repair. I'm beginning to wonder how much longer
this car will stay healthy and robust without
needing large infusions of cash.
QUESTION: What MAJOR repairs have you needed to
make and at what mileage or age? Did they come up
suddenly? How many miles do you have on your
Legacy?
miles, which is still reliable and in generally
good shape. We have done the usual oil changes
every 3-4,000 miles, and normal preventative
maintenance such as timing belt replacement and
brake jobs every 60K or so. However, we did have to
rebuild the automatic transmission at 170,000
miles, which by many standards is a good track
record. Now the center differential / clutch pack
is feeling tight during sharp turns (at low speed
of course). - This could be another expensive
repair. I'm beginning to wonder how much longer
this car will stay healthy and robust without
needing large infusions of cash.
QUESTION: What MAJOR repairs have you needed to
make and at what mileage or age? Did they come up
suddenly? How many miles do you have on your
Legacy?
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Comments
Have all of you been happy with the performance of you Subarus? I am debating between the new sedan and a Maxima. I live in the south so the AWD may not me needed. Is it worth getting?
and Subaru 96, it is a matter of what driving you will do and what are you going to transport.
When it is bad weather- Subaru of course. Other
wise, which ever car is closest ( if my wife is not going out because she cannot drive standard
trans.) Good Luck!
Our check engine light is often on & I know our battery is old. I will change the battery to see if the light will stop coming on. We also have the same problem as JEI, the trouble with low speed turns. I have been contemplating taking it to the dealer. Any ideas of repair cost?
The legacy is a great car.
it. We had heard a lot of good about its
reliability, but after a lot of the normal repairs noted above, and major ones such as having to replace a wheel bearing at 40K, we are now told we have the crank pulley bolt backing out, which may have damaged the keyway and/or shaft, which will very likely necessitate a
new engine. (BTW, the mechanic we use is completely trustworthy, and in fact has had to refer this on to someone else, so there are no ulterior motives.)This vehicle was METICULOUSLY cared for, oil changes every 3K, etc., etc., is only driven by my wife who is a very conservative
driver, but has left my her stranded twice now,
while a little "junker" Hyundai Excel that I drive
the heck out of, with the same milage has only ever had the alternator replaced, and has been
competely reliable, with almost identical milage. We are very disappointed, to say the least, and as we need to buy two new vehicles in the near future, I guess this will end our experience with them. So, whether the repair costs themselves are high or not, the actual NUMBER of major repairs - even if they were of average cose - makes this a prohibitive proposition.
As it looks like I will have to replace the engine, anyone know where I can get a rebuilt one? (email me at jvanne@cleanweb.net if you want).
Four wheel drive universal on my Legacy went bad, now driving on fwd only! Not sure if I want to spend the $ to have it repaired. I am also getting a thumping noise in front left wheel area. I'm going to have that checked soon.
Engine and tranny seem to be fine. Original trans fluid still looks fine.
In the 2+ years and 35K miles since, we have had problems with the shifter not coming out of park which the local Subaru dealer fixed after four attempts and several hundred dollars. The alternator and battery went out, which wasn't that expensive but very annoying since we were on vacation and were stranded 500 miles from home on a Sunday. Once we did get it started with a new battery, every light on the car blinked all the way home.
Recently the engine started pouring oil out, again. This time the repairs (all engine seals, water pump, and cam gear which the dealer broke during repairs) cost me almost $1000 dollars.
I seriously doubt this car will see 100K miles and it will be a cold day in hell before I would consider buying another Subaru.
The 96 models only came in auto trans, no problem for me because I love remote starters on my cars, they are great.
I have had very few repairs need over my 95'000 miles. I did have voltage regulator that controlled the heater, stereo, lights go out. I just recently had to have a seal replaced(by timing belts) there was a very small leak. Other than the 60k mile timing belt and spark plugs tune up I have not had to put any money in the car. It has been very reliable. the transmission does shift a little rough from first to second but other than that I have no complaints.
I have used synthetic motor oils and change every 5k miles. I Recently went on a 500 mile trip got 30 miles to the gallon driving 65 to 75 MPH, my normal millage is about 25 MPG depending on conditions.
I am thinking of getting a 2000 Outback Wagon or Sedan at the end of the month. I would be very interested in comments from those that have the new 2000 Outback Wagon or Sedan.
thanks
Jeff
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
changed the oil every 3k, and done routine work.
This is the most reliable car that I, my family, my relatives, or my close friends have ever experienced.
We're shopping again now. We're probably going to sell to relatives, and buy another one. It's hard not to. I've thought about the Volvo V70 AWD XC, but it just doesn't nearly meet the reliability numbers.
It's a boring car, but man it's been a good investment.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
The other side of my family are Honda nuts and I have had two Integras. I don't know anyone who didn't have lots of trouble by 100K with their Honda products. One cousin has had Accords since the year dot and they always reliably have a catastrophic engine/trsansmission failure by around 100K take or leave 10K! I will never ever buy an Acura again. 2 gaskets on one in less than 60K, transmission on another in 40K. Honda/Acura dealers also seem to be of a lower than human species in my area. When Hondas go well, they really go well, when they fall apart they make Detroit products look good and they are built to need everything replacing after 60-70K. If you are conscientious about it you can go far with one but they are only trouble free in their youth!
Decided to get rid of it when I blew a head gasket.
The second Subaru I bought used with 60k miles on it. It was an automatic and think it was slightly abused as a child. I started to have some problems with it around 150k miles. The trans started to act up although it never quit. I also had to start replacing sensors, ekg valve and an alt about that time. At 160k I had to put head gaskets on it and have some front end work done. I retired it at 175k. I was happy because I got about 90k miles out of it before I had to put any money into it.
The 1996 Outback has been flawless. I had the whole rear replaced before I took delivery. It was bad from the factory. It sounded like there wasn't any oil in it. That kind of gave me the creeps but since I had had such good luck with my old one chalked it up to chance. After that I never had anything wrong with it. I will get a check engine light every now and then. When I took it in, they said I didn't tighten the gas cap and the pressure in the fuel system caused the light to come on. I have been good about keeping the oil changed, 5-7k miles, tranny, brakes, and radiator and gearbox oil changed every year. Now have 70k on it and it is the best car I have ever had. Fun in the snow and mud too.
My 2000 sedan so far has been great. I get a lot of questions about "what kind of car is that" and a also lot of compliments on its good looks.
No car is perfect, and everything mechanical will wear out or break in time. I think it is real important to get a mechanic you can trust but overall I have had real good luck. I stay away from the dealer as much as I can. I feel the reliability and wear is as good as any. One thing that I really like is most cars when they get a few miles on them develop squeaks and rattles. All of my cars have been very tight. Even with 275k, 175k and 70k miles I never had something rattle or squeak. And the electrical systems were great. I remember replacing only a few bulbs in the 87's. And the 96 Outback still has all of its "stuff" working. No knobs breaking, switches still work and cables still pull.
As far as reliability goes, I feel like I have played "around the world" with some of the most crappy and/or ugly cars ever made; Fiat X/19, Renualt Encore (wife's), Ford Capri, AMC Gremlin (wife's) and a few Pontiacs and Chevy's. The Japanese cars just seen the hold up better.
I have noticed this with Subaru more then any other make: Once somebody buys there first subaru, thats all they buy after that. just look in druveways that have scoobs and you will always see atleast another if not all subarus (when I get older I will have all scoobs). I now drive a Focus ZX3, only cuz I couldnt afford an Impreza L.
Subarus are the best by far and will continue to be the best--way better then honda and toyota and all those other hyoed up companies
Anyway, I also didn't have the car for its first 8,000 miles so I can't honestly say they were uneventful. This is my 3rd Legacy ('92,'96, '97) and the '96 was a GT also. The '97 picked up 10 more hp, 16" wheels vs. 15", and the ability to use 87 octane instead of 92. I really enjoy the car, and I'm looking forward to getting a 2002 0r 2003 GT when the 6 cylinder appears. My '97 GT provides an ideal blend of power (compared to the '92 & '96), handling, safety, comfort, style and reliability. Of course, the performance in snow is legendary and I look forward to snowstorms so I can take it out and "get my money's worth". When the tires are in good shape (I have new ones on order), it actually will accelerate up a steep snow covered hill with minimal wheel spin under full throttle.
As far as comfort goes, I know somebody who, after 4 consecutive Legacies dating back to '90, decided to try an Audi A4 Quattro. The seat hurts his back and he regrets not getting another Legacy.
Of course, no car is perfect, and mine has a creaky sound coming from the front dash that gets worse with hot weather, and I agree with others that the brakes are a bit mushy, particularly for a car wearing a "GT" badge. There's also the noisy steering at low speeds over bumpy roads in turns, another common issue with later model Legacy steering boxes. Not dangerous or defective, just the way it was unintentionally designed. Oh yeah, and the auto trans. is sometimes a bit abrupt, but then again, it's connected to two sets of wheels.
Last, I am pleasantly surprised at not only the reliability, but the durability of the car. I was recently rear-ended by a steel-bumpered Chevy Caprice cab that was probably going 20 mph as he skidded into me. The impact and noise from inside suggested I would see the entire rear quarter panel crumpled. I was shocked to see the damage was a small puncture/scrape on the bumper cover, which I mostly eliminated with a touch of Subaru touch-up paint. The damage looked like it was from a gentle parking lot bump, not from a hip-check by a 4500 pound Chevy.
Needless to say, I endorse your purchase, assuming the price is fair and the car's been maintained well.
AFTER AN EXHAUSTED EFFORT TO FIND THIS VEHICLE WE FOUND OUR BEST DEAL IN ANOTHER STATE. WE LIVE IN MARYLAND AND SUBARU'S SEEM TO HOLD A VERY HIGH VALUE HERE. WE GOT A PRICE AT LEAST 3500 CHEAPER {ON AVERAGE} THAN ANY WE COULD FIND HERE IN MARYLAND. ANY MORE INFO WOULD BE GREAT.
AND BY THE WAY "GT DRIVER" YOUR RIGHT THE BRAKES ARE KIND OF MUSHY.
Has anyone else got these problems?
Thanks.
but the previous owner was nice enough to talk to me and told me that the transmission was replaced
by a "new" rebuilt transmission 10k mile ago.
Should this be the end of the transmission problems or is the turbo wagon likely to have them again? He also said to make sure the sunroof seals are checked. I was really impressed
with how the car drove and am having it checked by a mechanic before making a decision, but would appreciate any feedback. This would be our first Subaru.
ONE THING TO LOOK FOR IS OIL LEAKS AT THE VALVE COVERS AND THE RUBBER BOOTS ON THE RACK AND PINION.
We are probably better than 70% on the highway.
We also have a black gue on the drivers window
approx in the center as the window is up.
I think there is a problem with the lift mechanism
as it does not seem to operate smoothly anymore.
I will be bringing it in the the dealer within a month or two as I am approaching the end of my 80K warrantee.
So far, Subaru is way ahead.
Only claim to date was a leaking pwer steering pump and valve cover gaskets.
Both covered!
ralphe@localnet.com
But (and this is a big but), retarding the timing also reduces the engine's power, decreases fuel economy, and may lead to a buildup of residue on the valves. Lower octane prevents the engine from performing at the specifications at which it was designed to perform.
I had a '96 with the 2.5, and I admit I "cheaped out" with the fuel I purchased. The car ran fairly well, but I absolutely could tell the difference when I put in higher octane fuel. But mine was a leased vehicle that went back with 43,000 miles. If I had owned it, I most definitely would spend the extra money for 89 or 92 octane.
I plan to have a mechanic check it out but wondered if anyone could give some insight into how much life this car might have left in it and how much it should be worth.
The other concern was about the timing belt replacement. Most of the postings I found so far discuss older model engines. How often will I need to replace this one in the 97 2.5l engine, and about how much does it run?
I usually keep cars for a long time, and I'm looking forward to being a sube owner. But, after shelling out almost $15k for the car, plus up to $450 for new tires, I don't want to get hit for a $300 timing belt and suspension/front end work right off the bat.
I would appreciate any input. I'll be deciding in the next 7-10 days on this car, so I hope to hear from plenty of you before then! Thank you!
Did you also find our Wagons conference? If not, that would be a very good place to look for input.
You can go there using the conference scroll down choice on the left side of this page, or you can use the Topic Search feature just above that box to look for topics discussing this vehicle.
Good luck.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
First, although I can't speak for the first 8,000 miles (it was driven by a SOA employee its first several months), I have had only two extremely minor problems with this car (a headlight lens with a bad seal, and a bad alarm control module), both fixed under warranty.
The spark plugs are still fine at 50K, and are rated until 60K; timing belt should be changed at 105K (I believe it is either a metal, or metal-reinforced belt). However, if it breaks, the engine gets trashed as the DOHC engine is an "interference" engine. I think that a timing belt runs about $200 installed, but like most services, you'll find a wide variation in quotes from different dealers and garages.
I just replaced my tires with Michelin Pilot XGT's at BJ's Wholesale. They include lifetime flat repair and tire rotation in the price, which was about $450. Dunlop D60 A2's, an excellent tire, are sold through Tire Rack for $65 each plus about $5 shipping. Then, of course, you have to get them mounted. You can also go toward ultra-high-performance tires and spend $200 a piece in that size, but the tires aren't necessarily expensive; only slightly more than a typical 15" size. By the way, I had the same inside edge wear situation, so it could be the nature of the setup (toe-in, camber, etc.)
I suspect that the tires on the car you're reviewing are the original Potenza RE92's. If so, 50,000 miles is very good life, but it sounds like you'll need to visit an alignment shop and get a four-wheel alignment, which shouldn't cost more than $75, using a state-of-the-art machine that gives you a printout of the actual vs. factory settings.
There has been much discussion about what I believe you are describing as the "thumpthumpthump" sound. If it isn't the rubber of the scalloped tires, it is a harmless steering box noise that is common on Legacies. There is no fix for it, and no recall or legal action since there have been no failures or accidents associated with it. But, there definitely is a knocking noise that occurs while making turns on bumpy roads. I originally thought it was the front struts until I read about it on this and other Subaru message boards.
The nice thing is you'll have 10,000 miles of powertrain warranty coverage if you buy the car. With most other brands the entire warranty would have been done 14,000 miles ago. You are also considering one of the most durable, reliable and well-made cars. My '97 is my third Legacy (and not likely to be my last).
Personally, I think $15,000 is a little high, especially considering the worn tires and required alignment, but then again, you're talking about a wagon. I would be happy with $13,000 for my sedan if I sold it today, and I have the Premium Stereo package and new tires (in fact, I'm waiting 2 weeks for my dealer to give me a price on a 2001 I test-drove and a trade-in price for my '97.)
Another plus is that unlike the '96 GT, the '97 does NOT require premium fuel.
One thing to check is the brakes; with 50K highway miles, they may need replacement. Mine lasted about 40K with mixed, aggressive driving. Rotor warpage is a common Legacy occurrence, and it is better to replace the rotors than resurface them. I paid $248.75 plus tax for new front pads & rotors at my Subaru dealer using a 15% off any service coupon.
A final warning: do not let any garage tighten the lugnuts using an impact wrench unless they use a special attachment that limits the torque applied. Better still if they hand tighten the lugs and use a torque wrench (99% of mechanics own one, 1% use it on lug nuts). The reason: overtorqued lugs WILL contribute to rotor warpage.
Good luck.
The "thumpthumpthump" noise is on straight, smooth roads, so it probably is the tires showing their wear. I didn't hear any noises on turning.
The dealer originally had the car at $16,995, but we had him down to $14,910 by the time we left. I thought it was a little high, also. He insisted that for that price, we'd have to buy our own tires, alignment, etc. because he'd come down so much. The previous owners didn't remember what they got in trade for it. But, that was about four weeks ago, and the dealer is still sitting on the car, (so to speak) so maybe he has a little more room to bargain. It looks like we'll be selling our van on friday, so that gives us the green light to go work a deal.
Thanks for the tip on the brakes and rotors, also. I wouldn't have thought about lug nut pressure warping the rotors. We'll be watchful of that.
We're looking forward to being Subaru owners, especially after reading the postings here. Even if the dealer really can't come down any, it's the best price we've found on anything like it within 100 miles. If the next check and test drive turn out good, we might be bringing it home. (Wife loves everything about the car except the color - bright red!)
Thanks again for the info!
Keep in mind that for whatever reason, people prefer the goofy sister to the GT Wagon, the Outback Wagon. I don't think there is a big demand for GT Wagons, although there are proportionately fewer available.
I like driving the legacy better than the Forester. it has more pickup even though the engine is smaller (2.2 liters vs 2.5). It also handles more securely. We've developed some small annoying problems with the Legacy. Most of the door locks don't work, some rust spots and the visors don't stay up.
I get teh oil changed at jiffy Lube every 3000 or so miles and have th cars serviced at ta Subaru dealer every 30,000 miles.
Good luck to anyone who buys a Subaru. I hear that the new 6 cyl on Outbacks is awesome.
I'm taking it in to the local Subaru dealer friday for a complete check-up. Any pointers on what to look for? The rear differential appears to have been seeping oil for a while. Also, how loud is the "piston slap" noise? I noticed that when I started it this evening when it was cooler, there was a little bit of a tapping or popping, then louder whenever I accelerated. It wasn't real loud. If I had the windows down with lots of road noise, I may not have been able to hear it. After the engine warmed up, it wasn't there. Sure ran smoothly, though.
A couple more quick questions, if you don't mind. Does the climate control have a light? This one doesn't, or it's out. Our RKE will lock all the doors, but will only unlock the driver's door. Is that normal? Have there been many troubles with the power window motors? LR window struggles to go up all the way. Maybe from disuse?
Again, I appreciate all the info. I'm in unfamiliar territory with these, so it's good to know someone with some experience. Thanks!