Subaru Crew - Future Models II

1…122123125127128…446

Comments

  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Right. And maybe his wife can sign the pics of herself with the new wheels and sell them to Edmunds fans. A way of underwriting the purchase.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, but I'll tell her. :-)

    Funny thing is she sleeps on road trips, so that "boring" van would be perfect. But she'd only take it if I gave her the Forester to drive daily, and that simply ain't gonna happen.

    I cut her plenty of slack - she's carrying juice jr.

    Remember, though, she likes sportiness. SUVs are stylish, but I imagine once she drives one she will run back to her sedan. I wouldn't even classify the X5 as sporty, it felt too big, I'm sure she'd agree. The Sedona was too big for her, and is only 194" long.

    A more powerful Forester may be just the ticket, or a Matrix XRS if it were slightly bigger. A Highlander if it were cheaper.

    Other than that, I think if it were offered and I could get her to drive one, she'd fall for an Avignon-style Legacy wagon.

    I spend years shopping for my next car. I started shopping for my Forester in 1996 when the RAV4 came out, and only bought Sandy in August 1998. Sorry if the drama bores anyone, I analyze the options and share impressions here to keep the discussion going.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Now all we need is the '03 Legacy GT Wagon with an H6 tweaked to ~225 hp. :-)

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If the front of the Axiom wasn't so ugly I'd say go for that. It's very tight (especially with the suspension in sport mode). I've taken one for a test drive and threw it through some tight turns w/o much body roll.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Legacy H6, yes, please! Though she and I would really, really prefer a manual trans!

    It was hilarious, but during the test drive she kept reaching for the stick shift - it was an auto!

    It didn't help that at one point the Jatco 5 speed tranny on the MPV didn't know what gear to pick. It hesitated a good couple of seconds before it got going.

    She finds the Axoim way too funky. Think sleeper Q-ship, sporty, quick, subtle.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If the front grille wasn't so bad, it would rock. Oh well...

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the idea of TOD, and didn't know until you told me that the Rodeo doesn't get that. Plus it gets the bigger engine on the smaller platform.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    When she is good and ready she will pick what she wants to drive, until then you can only hope that you will like it too.

    You know that old saying I am the boss in this family and my wife allows me to say that, Hee, Hee,

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Axiom gets 3.5l 230hp/230lbs torque system. 17" rims std. :) The Axiom is slightly larger IIRC than the Rodeo, but not much. It's body is mounted lower and it has gas shocks, and it's overall stiffer than the rodeo. That darn front clip is the problem for me.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wear the pants around our house! When I'm doing her laundry! And I don't want to hear any whining! So I'll shut up. ;-)

    Axoim is also a lot of mass, 4180 lbs with 4WD. I don't know how it'll feel to her.

    Hutch and I went to Edmunds Live and we both liked the way the Grand Vitara handled, so I wouldn't explicitly exclude a rear solid axle. But the GV "bust its ankles (*)" in the ride testing bumpy section.

    -juice

    PS * an expression used in basketball when you dribble by your opponent and he basically falls down or trips over himself
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well let her drive it she'll like it except for the looks. If I ever get one, I'm gonna put in 2 hella 4000s reccesed into the bumper under the headlights to get rid of some of the vents. Kinda like the RS ones.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd really have to toss my mileage promise to the wind, though.

    Range is important, too. Too bad it doesn't get the Trooper's bigger gas tank.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Although I think you could probably get around 300 miles out of it easily on the highway. I never seem to let range sway me on a car purchase, I mean afterall you need to go to the bathroom once in a while! :) Besides you can always make up for it in the air so to speak :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, she hates stopping to get gas. Stop for outlet shopping? Sure! Food break? I'm hungry. Gas? Um, can you do it for me?

    Also, we live in an area where gas is priced like liquid gold. That means we get it when we're far from home, and it's nice when it lasts until the next time we're far from home.

    -juice
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I just got my April 02 Car and Driver in the mail and it has a (small) section on the new Forester, including the turbo coming next year. It's a 2.0l turbo tuned to 217hp (in Japan) but with better torque characteristics than the WRX motor. They say the majority of the torque will be available by 2000 rpms (sounds like VW's 1.8t motor, which comes on at 1800rpm and stays through 5000). Looks like I need to start selling my 01 OB! Now, in a perfect world, that engine would migrate over to the legacy platform and find a home under the hood of the GT wagon, too! For gas mileage and lighter weight, the 2.0t would get my vote over the excellent 6cyl.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 1.8T is a nice engine when mated to a 5 speed manual and a light car, but a heavier Tiptronic Passat wagon my friend owns is downright slow. And keep in mind that's a FWD model.

    But the Forester is light, and the 2.0l means more displacement than the VW mill. So with a 5 speed it ought to be quite fun. One estimate already is saying 7s to 60, that easily leads the class.

    But in a Legacy? I dunno how well it'll do pulling all that weight, especially with an automatic. If they put that in the Legacy they ought to consider making it 5 speed only.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    juice--

    but don't forget the 1.8T has 5 valves per cylinder, variable valve timing, high compression (9.3:1) and a fancy-pants variable vane turbocharger.

    presumably none of which a 2.0L Forester turbo would have. there's a slight technology gulf to overcome before you start assuming a Forester turbo would match up well.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah I fillup whenever I'm in NJ, it's about $.30/gal cheaper there, sometimes more.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    taxes. ain't it great?

    -Colin
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    My wife is quite the opposite - hates manual trannies now. Always wanted one. Got one with her Saturn and slowly grew to dislike it. Doesn't like to work alot at getting a car moving. So, an AT mini-van she would get.

    Me, I'd get to keep our Outback (all for myself too). And I'll wait patiently back here until that H6 Legacy comes along with a 5 speed auto at least (but would rather it be a 5 or 6 speed manual).

    -Brian
  • jimmyj1945jimmyj1945 Member Posts: 141
    No such thing. The 2003 does not get a turbo and the 2004 will be the 2.5l not 2.0l. Watch and see!

    Jim J.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Half the cost of a gallon of gas up here goes to taxes, burns my [non-permissible content removed] no end.

    Cheers Pat.
  • gvmelbrtygvmelbrty Member Posts: 64
    Hey Jim,

    Just curious, what's your source for the inside scoop on the '04 2.5 Turbo Forester? Sounds great if it's true. And... do you have any more details... horsepower, etc.?

    -tom
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Ah, the suspense! *chuckle* is it time to start a betting pool?

    Can I just say that as a Legacy owner I am really miffed you Forester types get a turbo before we do? Argh.........

    2.5 LPT? It's a bored out 2.2 and as such just isn't strong enough to reliably handle boost over the lifetime of the car. I think all the blown up turbo-ed RSs out there testify to that. Plus 2.0 is what is mandated by FIA, it's what Subaru builds and sells all over the world, and I just can't see why they would develop a 2.5.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, Loosh, the Outback and Forester pay the bills. They are the profit makers for Subaru due to volume, hence the Outback gets things like the H6, heated seats, and seat-back map pockets, and the Legacy doesn't. Question is, will the Forester get a turbo before the Legacy gets the H6?

    Colin: despite VW's claims that the torque basically peaks at zero rpm, I still felt there was a bit of turbo lag, even with all that technology. Torque still builds with rpm, at least it felt that way.

    I'm sure the Subie engine will mate well with a 5 speed manual. A 4 speed auto I'm not so sure. The Veedub has a 5 speed and it's still a dog.

    Gas is 10 cents cheaper in DC, 10-20 cents cheaper outside of my county in MD, and 20-30 cents cheaper in VA. At least that's my experience. They claim it's the cost of rent, but that's nonsense. The station near Montgomery Mall is much more expensive than the ones near Tysons Corner, a more upscale shopping center. Taxes, again.

    Hope you're right, Jim. A 2.5l turbo with a chip could get pretty wicked.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that may make production...

    The retractable cargo blind found on wagons and SUVs has, in my opinion, has always been a mixed success. On one hand it does protect from evil eyes and is easy to remove; however it only covers items that are no higher than the bottom of the rear and side windows, and, what do you do with it once it's removed? To me it's always been a half-baked solution that has never been developed to its maximum capability.

    I've often wondered if it was possible, with the flick of a switch—and when the vehicle is parked, to turn all the windows completely opaque—thereby eliminating the need for the cargo blind all together.

    Well... that just may happen someday. The new Mercedes Vision GST Grand Sports Tourer has such a feature being used for its roof. It uses "electrochromatic" glass, that with a flick of a switch, can turn completely opaque. I'm sure that technology could also be applied to ALL windows in a car. Obviously, it would have wired so that you can't drive the vehicle with the windows opaqued out.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That's a cool idea. Except when it comes time to replace those windows :) I have no problems with my cargo covers, when removed I put them in front of the folded seats behind the first row of seats, seems to work for me. Also I have all but the windshield tinted on my car so it's hard to see in even w/o the cover.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    of the "electrochromatic" glass, is that you can load the rear cargo area all the way up to the roof, and not be limited to whatever height the cargo blind is set at. It also offers complete protection for items left in the passenger area of the car too.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That would be neat. Plus it would block most heat in the summer.

    Actually, my concern would not be replacement cost, because insurance would cover most of those cases anyway.

    I'd be concerned with weight. Glass is already quite heavy, I wonder how thick it would have to be, or how many layers it would require, to be able to do that. Anyone know? The electochromatic mirror Subaru uses is much bulkier than the standard one, for instance.

    Sounds neat, though.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Juice, the cost of the insurance on cars equipped with said windows would sky-rocket. Someone pays for the glass, no one rides for free.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My guess is that with the electrochromatic mirror, the extra weight is due to the electo-gizmo being used. I would think that gizmo would be about the same size whether it be for a mirror or all the glass in the vehicle.

    Bob
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    When does the revised Legacy debut? And where? And what's the current line of thought on what sort of news we might get regarding future engine choices, etc.?

    Congrats, Juice. My newest addition is due May 15th+/-. We can compare "round 2" notes. It's the greatest thing, perhaps even better than talking about..............................I didn't even think that thought.

    Jim
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The '03 Legacy will get a "freshening," which we will find out about by the end of this month. The next all-new Legacy will be for MY05.

    As to engines, your guess is as good as mine.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, it's not like rear/side and hatch glass breaks that often.

    What kind of coating would the glass require, though? I'm not talking about the mechanism, but the layer on the glass itself. There has to be some conductive material on the glass, no?

    -juice

    PS I've seen ads in AN for side glass that is laminated, but that's for safety reasons, and to prevent break-ins
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmmm in any urban area you will see tons of driver and passenger windows smashed on a daily basis.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You gotta move, buddy! ;-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Electrochromatic glass! What will you guys think of next! How about simple window shades in the back. ;-)

    Actually, the new Forester in Japan is being offered with factory tinted windows. I wonder if they'll do that here in the US. While it's easy to get windows tinted, you always run the risk of scratching the film. I've got a tiny little tear from a snowboard edge on mine.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    We didn't think of it. It's already out there. This is just another application of the process.

    While not 100% secure, it does offer more security. Thieves will have no idea of what the car contains until a window is broken, unlike now where they just peer in (even with tinted glass) to see what pickings there are to be had.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Can be more harmful. A lot of people in NYC purposely leave their glove boxes open and even have notes on the window saying "Nothing in car, no radio, no money nothing!" Many thieves will assume there is something hiding in there because you have it covered up/hidden.

    When I put my sun-screen inmy front winsows of my trooper it is nearly impossible to see in it, let alone see if there is anything worth $ in there.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if electrochromatic glass were to become commonplace, that assumption of hiding something valuable becomes less of a factor.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    it won't filter down into all cars, most people won't pay extra for it and therefore will stay on limited cars. It's a cool concept, but may be "over-use of technology" at least that is my opinion.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mike -- I'm from NYC and I recall walking by a vehicle parked on the street with it's window smashed in. Hanging by a piece of tape was one of those "Absolutely Nothing in Car" signs in the window. Right below it was a piece of paper with "Just checking" scrawled on it. True story. Probably some jokester who left the note there, however.

    In fact, I remember going out to check on my car every day just to make sure it was still okay. And I didn't even live in a bad neighboorhood.

    Bob -- Yes, I know that electrochromatic glass is out there. I just got a kick out of picturing it on auto glass -- a pretty wild yet practical idea.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on top trim level models, even those on mainstream brands. I could see Honda Accord EX, or Legacy GT, or Outback VDC models offering it as part of that trim package. I could see premium brands such as Lexus, etc. offer it as standard across the board.

    I wouldn't write it off. It makes a lot of sense.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    "Mike -- I'm from NYC and I recall walking by a vehicle parked on the street with it's window smashed in. Hanging by a piece of tape was one of those "Absolutely Nothing in Car" signs in the window. Right below it was a piece of paper with "Just checking" scrawled on it. True story. Probably some jokester who left the note there, however."

    I always told that one as an urban legend :)

    I can see it on "luxury" brands on the top ones, BMW, MB, Lexus, Caddy, Lincoln, etc. I don't see it really trickling down that far, but who knows. I wouldn't pay much $ for it personally.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My tint film had tons of dog nose prints. It's harder to clean because you can't use anything with ammonia or it might peel off.

    LOL, Just Checking!

    Luxury cars have those pull down window shades. It's good for rear-facing child seats, else the kid might be staring right at the sun at times. They are even powered on some models. I imagine that in cars like that an electrochromatic solution would be far more elegant, and possibly lighter or less costly, I'm not sure.

    Even the new Camry XLE has a pull down rear shade, but that's almost in near-luxury price territory.

    -juice
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    My wife has dibs on the dark glass idea. She thought of it a long time ago -- as we baked in traffic when the temperature was 110 F here.

    Has anyone read "Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy"? The windshield could also be hooked up, and if you were about to crash into anything a proximity sensor would darken the windshield completely so you don't see it and stay calm.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We're getting pretty whacky for a Thursday. Usually it's not until Friday where we get this creative. :-)

    -juice
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    Don't forget: If you can't see it, it's not your problem, therefore, you don't crash! The ultimate safety device.
    :-)

    Ross
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mike,

    Honest true story. Perhaps it was someone trying to perpetuate the urban legend. I can see how it would be hard to resist the temptation.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    6-speed tip-tronic with low range. Over 7700 pounds towing. Benchmarked against some of the best off-roaders available. Also, there is info on the VW version.

    http://www.vwvortex.com/news/index_cayenne1.html

    Bob
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.