Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ozman62

p0926

Hey Dennis, what's with the ice cream analogies? Were you at the last chat where ice cream figured prominently? Speaking of which, Juice, do you have any of that Rocky Road left? :-)

-Frank P.

p0926

Ha, good one!

njswamplands

sounds like the words of the guys in the trunk on the way to a late night swamp stop

bblacha

Updated specs and features on media.subaru.com (Forester page, in upper-right corner.) Notable changes: direct-control auto tranny and throttle-by-wire on all trim levels.

No mention of enhanced manual gearbox as in the Impreza :-( Hard to believe they'd improve the base Impreza but leave out the Forester??? Unless that rumor was false...

nowakj66

05 Imprezza specs are not there yet so I guess we shall see. . .

bluesubie

The Forester's gearbox was enhanced in '03.
Not much was said about it, but it was mentioned in a document on Subaru Australia's website.

-Dennis

bblacha

Just found it (subaru.com.au->Forester->Downloads.) Quite an interesting 32-page technical document, with torque curves etc.

p0926

Just noticed your flag :-)

kens

Direct control AT and throttle-by-wire were features introduced for the 2004 XT.

Ken

ironsides1

Anyone found information on whether the '05 Forester X will still have rear drum brakes. It was odd that the 'lower' level '04 Impreza had full disc brakes but the 'higher' level Forester X still had rear drums. Perhaps Subaru had left over drum brake parts to use up.

Jon

buddhabman

Have you seen the Photochops by Phoenix96. Nicely done. The Subaru 7-pass would do well to resemble these. Much better than the representation in Car Connection. When is the initial press unveiling coming, any hints?

rwitte

I was interested in that too. Looking at the media.subaru site that was just updated with 05 Forester info, I've concluded that the X probably still has rear drums. The X specs just list 4 wheel ABS, then when they show what the XS adds to that, the first thing listed is 4 wheel disc brakes.

Randy

paisan

Blane is NOT in my trunk, honest!

-mike

ateixeira

Ditch the drums, definitely.

-juice

bblacha

(I'll be over in Meet-the-Members)

rsholland

The 9-4x, and to be based off an upcoming new Subie (7-passenger crossover, I bet).

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/

Go to "Latest News" and scroll down to 9-4x link.

From what is said here, it sounds like it will be a low coupe-on/off-roader, and not just another badge-job of another Subie. Could be very interesting...

Bob

rsholland

Also, official prices now on SOA media site.

http://www.media.subaru.com./

Bob

glycinemax

...and it sounds like fogs and the all weather package (heated seats and mirrors) might not be included. Guess we'll know for sure here in a month or so. Think the OTD price will be closer to $21K come Winter?

glycinemax

05 2.5i w/ 4EAT $24995 MSRP $23004 INV $575 D&D
04 2.5L w/ 4A $24470 MSRP $22266 INV $550 D&D

cars101 shows all weather package and fogs on 2.5i. that sounds right. need-desire also shows heated seats. wonder if wire harness will be there to support swapping out the mirrors for ones with the integrated turn signals?

locke2c

$21k out the door? that would be with delivery and taxes. uh, no way.

~c

ntk1

The best deal I have negotiated so far on a legacy GT sedan MT is 2% over invoice (appx $480), unless I can get better in the next 24 hours I will probably sign up. I am looking to get the Silver but was interested if anybody had seen the light blue in real life and had any opinions

Pete

glycinemax

Colin, thanks for helping me to focus. In the light of day and after the first cup... When do y'all think one could get a 05 OBW 2.5i w/ 4EAT for around $22800+TTL? Or, how 'bout some ideas for prices and time-frames? TIA.

ateixeira

Wow, Bob, that could be Subaru's Jeep-like vehicle you've been asking for.

Remember, they say the 7 seater will be the most capable Subaru ever, in off-road terms. So the potential exists.

2% over is a great deal, I bet if you wait until they're in dealer lots they won't offer those prices. They'll go up for a while, then come back down in the fall, maybe. Just my guess.

23/28 is pretty good all things considered, but not the +7mpg they claimed at one point for the euro cycle.

Did we get figures for the other models yet?

-juice

ateixeira

22/28 for the Legacy 2.5i 5 speed.

23/28 for the 2.5i automatic.

17/24 for the Legacy XT 5 speed.

18/25 for the Legacy XT auto.

20/27 for the Outback H6 auto.

So I almost nailed it, I said 22/28 and it's 23/28 for the 5 speed.

Not a bad guess, eh? I was pretty close on some of the prices too. I should work in forecasting.

-juice

locke2c

even if you did work in forecasting, you'd still be here waving the Subaru banner all throughout the day.

~c

c_hunter

So it looks like $26K MSRP+FREIGHT for a 2.5i-Ltd Legacy sedan with auto transmission, which is probably what I would try to talk my wife into. That's about $1200 more than a comparably equipped Accord EX, which is not too bad. However, it's unfortunate you get stuck with a 4EAT in the 2.5i models. The Accord EX has a 5-spd auto. Once we get more specs on equipment content, I guess I can make a more reasonable comparison between the cars.

I would really love a GT-Ltd sedan, but there's no way my wife is going to like the $30K MSRP. Even at a reduced street price, that will be a tough sell.

Craig

goneskiian

Craig - What more are you waiting for on specs? I think all that we're missing are the curb weights. Check out www.cars101.com.

Cheers!
-Ian

sweet_subie

nav, may be ?

rsholland

A dealer in NM just posted over in nasioc that they just got a '05 2.5i Limited in, with a 22 city/30 highway EPA rating. The question is: Is that a Legacy or an Outback?

Bob

ateixeira

Subaru may end up doing less volume if the prices remain at a premium. Still, they could end up with higher profits if the margins are better.

Porsche is extremely profitable despite low margins, for instance.

But we'd never be happy, there are those that want a bare-bones Subaru (I think someone wanted them to delete power windows!) while others want Nav and HIDs.

-juice

locke2c

did you word that wrong? I'd feel rather certain that Porsche's margins are better than, say Kia. that was too easy. say GM.

~c

rsholland

They're going to be priced about the same. Which would you choose?

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7064&sid=17- 3&n=156

Bob

ateixeira

Yes, sorry, I meant low sales, of course.

Saab will have massively subsidized lease specials, just wait.

I bet they lease most 9-2x models. Subaru leases probably only few.

-juice

locke2c

Legacy GT by a country mile! The 9-2X is a wrx wagon, ergo it has a seriously inferior powerplant.

Plus why would you pay Saab's parts & labor premium to have a Subaru serviced?

~c

ateixeira

Not to mention Sven the mechanic has zero experience with boxer engines and AWD.

-juice

c_hunter

OK, here's a wag at comparing the two cars:

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/leg-accord.html

In cases where the cars were similar, I left the info off the chart unless it was important. In cases where one car had a significant advantage, I used red font.

They are surprisingly similar in content and the engines are fairly matched (Legacy has a teeny bit more useable power). I would ding the Legacy for the 4-spd auto, lower fuel economy, shorter maintenance interval (assuming it remains 30 or 60K), and no fold-down rear seat. That said, is the Legacy worth the extra $1200? For the $1200 you get AWD, better resale (05 versus 04), and more character (though I'd like a test drive before confirming the latter). I guess I'd probably be on the fence between the two cars, and would choose based on the driving experience and overall feel, and how important AWD is.

Craig

goneskiian

Easy decision for me as I'm shopping for a wagon! ;-P LOL!

-Ian

c_hunter

rsholland

Good job. However, only the H-6 models get audio steering wheel controls.

Bob

bkaiser1

We own an 04 EX-L like what you describe (in addition to the 04 WRX) and the price difference between ours and the new Legacy is fairly substantial. We paid just under $21,000 for the EX-L with a manual (add around $1000 for the auto)...and it's an incredible car for the money. While it's been receiving regular bashings here lately from the die-hard subaru fans on Edmunds, it's truely an amazingly refined car. Compared to either of our Subies, it's light years ahead in terms of build quality.

Granted, there are significant Subie advantages (wagon, AWD, ?) but the Accord is certainly worth a look. I'd love to see a new Legacy in person to compare it to...from all reports it appears like Subaru has finally got the interior design to match the rest of their higg quality engineering.

Brian

p0926

it's been receiving regular bashings here lately from the die-hard subaru fans

I really don't think anyone here has "bashed" the Accord. It's merely been pointed out that it's not the be-all and end-all of the auto world. Personally I do think the Accord appeals more to a slightly different demographic that your typical Subaru owner but the Accord is certainly an excellent vehicle and no doubt a better choice for many people.

-Frank P

c_hunter

Yeah, I agree with you. I was impressed with the Accord, and my wife was totally happy with it. The Legacy is really going to have to be heads and shoulders above the Accord to win the competition. My wife does appreciate good handling and a sporty ride, so maybe that's where the Legacy will win (although the Accord is damn good in that category too).

We'll have to balance all the pros and cons of the Legacy. About the only thing I would ding the Accord for is FWD, but that's not a showstopper in my wife's opinion.

I've got $500 in SubaruBucks that could potentially be a factor as well.

Craig

c_hunter

One more thing, the 05 Legacy looks about a billion times better than the 04 Accord in my opinion. Since my wife married me, obviously looks don't matter to her, but they do to me!! LOL!

Craig

locke2c

roofle, craig.

I really do think the 2005 Legacy is the most attractive sedan I've seen in a while. The last sedan/coupe I liked that much, I bought.

~c

nowakj66

Bkaiser - I too own an Accord EX-L Sedan with manual tranny and it is a very sharp and sophisticated car. It is one year old and will serve us well. We also have an LL Bean Outback in the family. The Bean, like the Accord is a quietly competant car that pleases us by its trouble free execution.

The Accord is a great car on many levels including drivability, interior refinement and cost to own, maintain and operate.

Our family will be expanding from my wife and I as we are adopting an infant in the next 9 months or so.

I took the excuse to test drive a Forester XT, just to see if it is a more family friendly vehicle and also as a preview of the upcoming Legacy GT. (Any excuse!) Truth be told, a Forester is probably no more (and arguably less) family friendly than the Accord. The Accord back seat is much larger.

I have test driven WRX cars and I was pleased to experience what others describe as that visceral feel - a feeling I attribute to acceleration capabilities way beyond my Accord.

I actually found myself scheming - how could I get this XT with its awesome acceleration? It makes NO sense to sell the perfectly good Accord but the XT with its torquey 2.5 L turbo motor stirred passion that the Accord does not.

I am not an impulsive person (repeat) and have a high trigger for action so I will likely not be getting the Forester XT or Legacy GT soon (or should not, in any event). But that is what the turbo Subies have (as I am sure you know from your WRX) -- that spice and passion inducing performance.

p0926

You will definitely be giving up a little refinement and a fair amount of backseat space going from an Accord to the FXT but you'll gain more utility and cargo carrying capacity and of course there's the grin factor :-)

-Frank P

sweet_subie

let us please compare the new accords with the new legacy/outback in terms of refinement.

several posts compare new accord with old leg, forester, ob etc

bluesubie

Potential 9-2X owners are already posting in nabisco's tri-state forum asking for folks that can swap up-pipes. :-)

-Dennis

salbaby1972

No dobut the Accord is a great car, but there is no wagon. Honda/Acura has the best NAV package IMO, but no AWD and wagon.

For us, we live in the city and we only have 1 parking space. Since we only can have 1 car, we're going with a great wagon. SUV's wont' cut it for us, bc we need access to our roof rails.

I can't wait for the Legacy GT Limted Wagon and Outback XT Limited...